G500
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United To Concentrate 747 Fleet At San Francisco

Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:35 am

this move was decided on maintenace options. It appears UA's main 747 maintenance base is at SFO, so this will reduce down time... We might see a UA 747 here and there, but most will call SFO home effective inmediately

"United will replace 747s with Boeing 777-200s on its Chicago O'Hare to Tokyo Narita flight from 3 January 2013, and its Chicago-Hong Kong-Singapore flight from March 2013, it says."

"The airline will upgrade flights between San Francisco and Frankfurt, London Heathrow, Osaka Kansai, and Taipei to 747s from 777s as a result of the shift. It will also upgrade flights between Honolulu and Tokyo Narita to a 747 from a 777."

"United will continue to use 747-400s on flights between Los Angeles and Sydney, Australia."

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...rate-747s-at-san-francisco-380460/
 
71Zulu
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RE: United To Concentrate 747 Fleet At San Francisco

Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:50 am

This thread now archived but was discussed a few weeks back,

UA Closing ORD 747-400 Pilot Base (by jetskipper Nov 27 2012 in Civil Aviation)
Clickable links only please!
 
kamboi
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RE: United To Concentrate 747 Fleet At San Francisco

Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:13 pm

This not to my liking being a resident of San Francisco. I used to like the 774, but after my last flight from FRA to SFO on board a 744, I try to avoid them. Reason being that UAs fleet are not equipped with AVOD in every seat. It's only in business class. Thank god I slept the entire flight otherwise I would've been bored to death. Those overhead monitors are so 80s. C'mon UA, you can do better than that. Plus in the article it says UA has 26 744 with an age of 17 years.
 
gigneil
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RE: United To Concentrate 747 Fleet At San Francisco

Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:21 pm

Why didn't you bring some reading material with you? A laptop, tablet, or other such device?

NS
 
planespotting
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RE: United To Concentrate 747 Fleet At San Francisco

Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:50 pm

Quoting kamboi (Reply 2):
I used to like the 774, but after my last flight from FRA to SFO on board a 744, I try to avoid them. Reason being that UAs fleet are not equipped with AVOD in every seat. It's only in business class. Thank god I slept the entire flight otherwise I would've been bored to death. Those overhead monitors are so 80s.

No kidding. I'm doing SFO-NRT and SYD-SFO in February in Economy Plus, and while I have an iPhone 5 and lots of content to watch/listen to, there is also no power except in Business or First. And I'd prefer my phone not be completely dead by the time I get to NRT or SFO on the return, so it's not like I can even run the battery down all the way (which would only provide a few hours worth of entertainment anyway).

Woe is me I guess, ha ha. #FirstWorldProblems
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MesaFlyGuy
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RE: United To Concentrate 747 Fleet At San Francisco

Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:38 pm

Quoting gigneil (Reply 3):

LOL maybe he's like me, somebody who doesn't really read for pleasure! :p

I have TV and other material on my iPad and am sad to say that I plan some of my working around what I'm going to be flying on an upcoming trip incase I need something to do.  
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
Norcal773
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RE: United To Concentrate 747 Fleet At San Francisco

Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:03 pm

I avoid the UA 747s like the plague coz they're horrible in Economy. Fly one SFO-HKG earlier this year and never again. I flew UA to MUC the other day and the first choice when booking was the 747 SFO-FRA and then an LH A321 or SFO-IAD on a 737 and the UA 902 which is a 772 across the pond. Chose the 2nd option in a heart beat just to avoid the 744, as graceful as they are. They need a retrofit bad if UA plans on keeping them for a few more years.
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AussieItaliano
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RE: United To Concentrate 747 Fleet At San Francisco

Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:23 pm

Quoting gigneil (Reply 3):
Why didn't you bring some reading material with you? A laptop, tablet, or other such device?

NS

Sure, those are all good options, but I think the issue is that the UA 744 Economy/Economy Plus product doesn't have AVOD at every seat, while most airlines competing on those same routes do (or are at least in the process of getting them).

We all have different entertainment preferences when we fly (or even on the ground for that matter). I personally can't read for long periods of time since I lose concentration, and I prefer not to bring my laptop if I can avoid it. I think that part of the allure of the PTV is that it's already there, so you don't have to bring anything extra.
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lucky777
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RE: United To Concentrate 747 Fleet At San Francisco

Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:32 pm

It truly is a shame when you look at the condition of UA's 747-400's. Just look at what Delta has done with their refurbished 747's and you can see just how nice the Queen of the Sky can be if your willing to invest in your product. Google Delta 747 for images and you'll see exactly what i mean.
 
kamboi
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RE: United To Concentrate 747 Fleet At San Francisco

Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:48 pm

Quoting gigneil (Reply 3):

For a 10:50 hour flight, that would've bored me too. I was connecting from BEY on the 3:20 Am flight BEY-FRA.
 
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DolphinAir747
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RE: United To Concentrate 747 Fleet At San Francisco

Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:56 pm

Great news for a 747 lover soon moving to the Bay Area. Honestly when possible I'll fly across the oceans on LX, NH, SQ, etc.
 
AADC10
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RE: United To Concentrate 747 Fleet At San Francisco

Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:00 am

There were a lot of mechanical delays on the 744s at ORD. Reducing their utilization rates and consolidating maintenance at the big SFO facility might help a little. The 744 fleet is another step closer to retirement.
 
SonomaFlyer
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RE: United To Concentrate 747 Fleet At San Francisco

Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:17 am

UA was broke a few years ago and declined to invest in retrofitting their 744's. They also deferred a ton of maintenance on the aircraft. The result is what you see now.

Their first class and business class products are competitive on the 744 but their economy class is terrible. If they even had a USB port to keep tablets or phones going, that would've been fine. Instead, they decided to do nothing regarding upgrading the back of the plane. They decided that folks are so myopic about price, they'll book UA regardless of how their hard product compares to the competition's. UA may actually be correct on that score given the fact their 744s usually fly full (whether their yields compare is another question).

On the other hand, UA is investing in upgrading sUA's 772s with nose to tail avod, switching from 2-5-2 to 3-3-3 seating and other upgrades to put their hard product on par with other airlines with which they compete. The same goes for the two class 763s.

Like many who take the time to know the various products available, I make a point to never fly UA's 744 if the trip is in economy or economy plus. Every airline that competes with UA on the 744 routes has a superior hard product and is often very close in price. It makes the decision easy. For those members of the public not bright enough to do about two minutes of research, UA has plenty of seats available for them on their 744s.

Within the next 7-10 years, UA will have a new wide body fleet of 787s and 359s. They will be state of the art in every respect and even economy class folks will have access to entertainment and power ports. The 744s will be chopped up or sitting in the desert.
 
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calpsafltskeds
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RE: United To Concentrate 747 Fleet At San Francisco

Sat Dec 22, 2012 3:03 am

From my count it looks like 19 of 23 units are needed to run a real tight schedule with all SFO aircraft turning around.

It looks like up to 4 units could be built into the sked for maint/reliablility at SFO, (in addition to a paint line and heavy maintenance).

There is substantial down time at BKK 7+ hours, HKG 14+ hours, PEK 21+ hours, SYD 8+ hours, LAX 12+ hours.
Normal turns are made at MEL, KIX, ICN, FRA and LHR

FYI: UA's online timetable does not show the 744 on KIX

Too bad they don't have AVOD in Y, but that may indicate retirement is too close to fund reconfiguration or UA has decided they'll be OK on marketing the current 744 product from SFO as UA may be able to control traffic due to FF programs at the major hub.
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United Airline
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RE: United To Concentrate 747 Fleet At San Francisco

Sat Dec 22, 2012 3:07 am

Will they be based in ORD again after a year or two or in the future?
 
usflyer msp
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RE: United To Concentrate 747 Fleet At San Francisco

Sat Dec 22, 2012 3:12 am

Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 6):
I avoid the UA 747s like the plague coz they're horrible in Economy. Fly one SFO-HKG earlier this year and never again. I flew UA to MUC the other day and the first choice when booking was the 747 SFO-FRA and then an LH A321 or SFO-IAD on a 737 and the UA 902 which is a 772 across the pond. Chose the 2nd option in a heart beat just to avoid the 744, as graceful as they are. They need a retrofit bad if UA plans on keeping them for a few more years.

True.

I flew MSP-HKG earlier this year and I flew MSP-IAH-NRT-HKG-NRT-EWR-MSP just to avoid flying SFO/ORD - HKG on a UA 747.
 
as739x
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RE: United To Concentrate 747 Fleet At San Francisco

Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:00 am

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 13):
FYI: UA's online timetable does not show the 744 on KIX

777 to 747: Effective 6.6.13
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USAirALB
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RE: United To Concentrate 747 Fleet At San Francisco

Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:03 am

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 12):

IIRC, aren't a couple of UA's newest 744s wired for PTVs in Y? I'm seem to recall UA having the intention to install them, but 9/11 put a hold on those plans...permanently. It was supposed to be the same PTV system that the 3-class 763s and pre-refurb 777 have.
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MesaFlyGuy
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RE: United To Concentrate 747 Fleet At San Francisco

Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:07 am

So does this mean we won't see the 744 onIAH-NRT like planned?
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johnclipper
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RE: United To Concentrate 747 Fleet At San Francisco

Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:32 am

Quoting g500 (Thread starter):
"United will replace 747s with Boeing 777-200s on its Chicago O'Hare to Tokyo Narita flight from 3 January 2013, and its Chicago-Hong Kong-Singapore flight from March 2013, it says."

I thought the HKG-SIN tag was operated by the inbound 747 from SFO. According to the UA schedule, random flights in Feb and March HKG-SIN are still on the 744
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johnclipper
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RE: United To Concentrate 747 Fleet At San Francisco

Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:33 am

Scratch that...April is showing 777s.
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cosyr
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RE: United To Concentrate 747 Fleet At San Francisco

Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:26 am

without in seat power, an ipad won't last a 15 hour flight to SYD playing movies, and if like a lot of people you can't read on planes, that is a rough flight. Thank god I am flying J on that route,upstairs. On the sUA 777s I would never consider J. Eight across! I don't care what the seat is like, middle seats in J are inappropriate.
 
SurfandSnow
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RE: United To Concentrate 747 Fleet At San Francisco

Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:14 am

This marks the end of an era at ORD; UA has graced the airport with 747s for 4 decades. Meanwhile, SFO will be 747 haven with almost all of its long haul international services operated by the type. Some very interesting fun facts to note:

- All UA and UAX services from ORD will now be operated by twin-engined jet aircraft. This has never been the case before, as there was always a mix of four, two, and (between the mid-1960s and early 2000s) three engined aircraft operating from the hub.

- All of ORD's transpacific services will now be operated by the 777. The U.S. carriers (UA and AA) use the older 772 variants, whilst the Asian carriers (CX, JL, KE, NH, and OZ) utilize the state of the art 77W.

Fortunately, this does not mean the end of the 747 at ORD. As it stands today, there are still at least two regularly scheduled 747 options. One must simply be willing to head to Europe rather than Asia  .

1) LH ORD-FRA. This route currently sees the 744, and is slated to get 748 service in the coming months. LH is extremely happy with the 748, and I daresay this flagship type will ply the ORD-FRA route for many years to come!

2) KL ORD-AMS. This is the one major intercontinental airline with a knack for operating venerable aircraft, and the rather rare 74M is but one example of this. Who knows how long they will keep serving ORD-AMS with the 74M, though.

It appears that even BA no longer sends the 747 to ORD anymore, even in the summer?
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MesaFlyGuy
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RE: United To Concentrate 747 Fleet At San Francisco

Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:22 am

Quoting Surfandsnow (Reply 22):

Very true. It''s a shame to see such an iconic aircraft as the 747 dwindling in the U.S. (at least as a passenger carrier). Yes, there still are some, but not as many as there used to be.  

Also, one small correction, but OZ doesn't fly the 77W. Perhaps you meant the 772ER?
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sparkingwave
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RE: United To Concentrate 747 Fleet At San Francisco

Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:53 am

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 12):
They decided that folks are so myopic about price, they'll book UA regardless of how their hard product compares to the competition's.

I totally agree with that statement because not only do they not mind the lack of coach AVOD, they don't seem to mind paying those extra luggage fees for their U.S. domestic connections, either.

Quoting lucky777 (Reply 8):
Just look at what Delta has done with their refurbished 747's and you can see just how nice the Queen of the Sky can be if your willing to invest in your product.

DL is one-upping UA on refurbishments, but they're newer to the Pacific and have more to prove. On the other hand, UA has more legacy with all of Pan Am's former Pacific Division from 1984-85.

Let's see which airline outlasts the other with their 747-400s.
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gigneil
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RE: United To Concentrate 747 Fleet At San Francisco

Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:03 pm

Delta not that long ago bought this company formerly known as Northwest Orient...

NS
 
n471wn
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RE: United To Concentrate 747 Fleet At San Francisco

Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:06 pm

Quoting cosyr (Reply 21):
without in seat power, an ipad won't last a 15 hour flight to SYD playing movies, and if like a lot of people you can't read on planes, that is a rough flight. Thank god I am flying J on that route,upstairs. On the sUA 777s I would never consider J. Eight across! I don't care what the seat is like, middle seats in J are inappropriate.

This is why our prayers continue to have some competition on the SYD-SFO route.....UAL is so yesterday....
 
Viscount724
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RE: United To Concentrate 747 Fleet At San Francisco

Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:12 pm

Quoting g500 (Thread starter):
It appears UA's main 747 maintenance base is at SFO

I believe much of their 747 (and 777) heavy maintenance is done in China by Ameco in PEK. Related 2010 item.
http://chinaaviation.aero/news/airli...ance-contract-with-United-Airlines
 
SonomaFlyer
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RE: United To Concentrate 747 Fleet At San Francisco

Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:18 pm

Quoting sparkingwave (Reply 24):
DL is one-upping UA on refurbishments, but they're newer to the Pacific and have more to prove.


What exactly do they need to "prove?" DL is an established carrier with a good reputation. Flying over the Pacific is no different than any other body of water, just a longer distance.
 
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STT757
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RE: United To Concentrate 747 Fleet At San Francisco

Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:36 pm

Quoting sparkingwave (Reply 24):

DL is one-upping UA on refurbishments,

Not really, UA has significantly more lie flat equipped aircraft than DL. DL is actually behind the curve in update it's International hard products.
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quiet1
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RE: United To Concentrate 747 Fleet At San Francisco

Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:43 pm

Isn't UA (s-l-o-w-l-y) in the process of installing WiFi servers on the 747-400's to deliver streaming entertainment? And also, IIRC, installing power ports in Y-class seats?

If so, would that abate (I'm not delusional -- haters will still hate) the First-World-Problem moaning about them?   
 
gigneil
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RE: United To Concentrate 747 Fleet At San Francisco

Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:10 pm

Quoting quiet1 (Reply 30):
Isn't UA (s-l-o-w-l-y) in the process of installing WiFi servers on the 747-400's to deliver streaming entertainment? And also, IIRC, installing power ports in Y-class seats?


Yar.

NS
 
kamboi
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RE: United To Concentrate 747 Fleet At San Francisco

Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:33 pm

Are UAs 744 competitors to Europe , say BA, VS, AF, KL do have AVOD in economy? I suspect VS does but not sure about the others. My last trip out of SFO was to FRA on the A380. Best part of the AVOD was the ability to view the outside from right in front of you as the plane took off. That was a nice feature.
 
Norcal773
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RE: United To Concentrate 747 Fleet At San Francisco

Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:28 pm

Quoting kamboi (Reply 32):

Are UAs 744 competitors to Europe , say BA, VS, AF, KL do have AVOD in economy? I suspect VS does but not sure about the others. My last trip out of SFO was to FRA on the A380. Best part of the AVOD was the ability to view the outside from right in front of you as the plane took off. That was a nice feature.

I believe they all do.. at least VS, BA, LH, KLM does. I flew LH 748 FRA-IAD a few weeks ago and it has the camera option too, very cool especially on take-off and landing.
If you're going through hell, keep going
 
warden145
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RE: United To Concentrate 747 Fleet At San Francisco

Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:45 pm

Quoting kamboi (Reply 32):
Are UAs 744 competitors to Europe , say BA, VS, AF, KL do have AVOD in economy?

IIRC LH does not have AVOD on their 747-430 fleet, or if they do now, it was a relatively recent update. That actually ended up being one of the three deciding factors on choosing BA instead of LH the last time I went to Europe, which was in 2010 before LH debuted the A380 service to SFO.
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cosyr
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RE: United To Concentrate 747 Fleet At San Francisco

Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:10 pm

Quoting quiet1 (Reply 30):
First-World-Problem moaning

It is true that I prefer these issues to IranAir
 
Norcal773
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RE: United To Concentrate 747 Fleet At San Francisco

Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:30 pm

At the end of the day, Airline Alliances is what counts for me. I'll fly on a UA 744 SFO-LHR in Economy Plus even with the crappy interior over a BA 744 because the royalty counts... I get to use lounges, Exit Row and everything else that comes with being Star Alliance Gold before I choose AVOD on BA for example. Leg room is all that counts for me on these long flights, especially for a relatively tall guy like me. LH's legroom on the 748 sucks a$$ BTW, I learned that the hard way.
If you're going through hell, keep going

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