questions
Topic Author
Posts: 1144
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:51 am

Could VX Adopt An AS-type Model And Make Money?

Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:10 am

Could Virgin America adopt a similar model to Alaska Airlines of having many codeshare agreements, partner airlines, and no airline alliance and make money? If not, what about VX's business model, route structure, etc would not allow itself to profitably whore itself out like AS does?
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 4775
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

RE: Could VX Adopt An AS-type Model And Make Money?

Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:15 am

Quoting questions (Thread starter):
If not, what about VX's business model, route structure, etc would not allow itself to profitably whore itself out like AS does?

Right now the problem with VX is that it doesn't offer anything unique. AS is successful because they have a strong west coast presence and (obviously) a very strong Pacific northwest presence. Something AA and DL lack, so they codeshare with AS. With foreign airlines, AS's network is big enough on the west coast to make codesharing worthwhile. VX doesn't have a large network, and many of its routes are in direct competition with its legacy peers, so there really is no incentive for many airlines to codeshare with VX. Their network is also almost entirely between major US cities that most major foreign airlines already serve (let alone domestic airlines), so VX doesn't offer any new destinations or unique traffic flows.

[Edited 2012-12-21 20:17:07]
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 2180
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

RE: Could VX Adopt An AS-type Model And Make Money?

Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:19 am

No.
AS has a unique N-S West Coast route structure. Only UA and WN can compare.
VX's entire route structure is largely duplicative of existing alliance members so there is no point.
 
Bobloblaw
Posts: 1680
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:15 pm

RE: Could VX Adopt An AS-type Model And Make Money?

Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:34 am

Quoting Polot (Reply 1):
Right now the problem with VX is that it doesn't offer anything unique

cant be stated enough
 
lhcvg
Posts: 1255
Joined: Mon May 25, 2009 2:53 pm

RE: Could VX Adopt An AS-type Model And Make Money?

Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:02 am

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 3):
Quoting Polot (Reply 1):Right now the problem with VX is that it doesn't offer anything unique
cant be stated enough

And I think the recent VX status match offered to UA elites is further evidence of that. Not that such a move is unwise or unprecendeted in and of itself, but I struggle to figure out what exactly they offer that isn't essentially just poaching customers from other carriers on transcons.
 
tdscanuck
Posts: 8572
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:25 am

RE: Could VX Adopt An AS-type Model And Make Money?

Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:01 pm

Quoting questions (Thread starter):

Could Virgin America adopt a similar model to Alaska Airlines of having many codeshare agreements, partner airlines, and no airline alliance and make money?

In theory, yes, but they'd have to pick a home base and stick to it. Alaska's success is, in very large part, due to regional focus. So far, they haven't shown an preference to do that.

Quoting questions (Thread starter):
If not, what about VX's business model, route structure, etc would not allow itself to profitably whore itself out like AS does?

They don't offer any unique routes. And, off the top of my head, I can't think of any they can offer that fit their fleet mix.

Tom.
 
rickabone
Posts: 152
Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 8:06 am

RE: Could VX Adopt An AS-type Model And Make Money?

Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:15 pm

Quoting Polot (Reply 1):
Right now the problem with VX is that it doesn't offer anything unique.

I disagree. VX offers a level of service, style and a coolness factor that I think might appeal to some of the higher end (service wise) foreign carriers that fly into LAX & SFO. The codeshare agreement with Singapore (an airline world renowned for service) is indicative of that I think.

As a passenger, the VX experience is much closer to that of the Singapores, Cathays, Koreans, etc... & that might make those airlines more prone to codeshare and show the flight under their airline name. I'm sure there are plenty of passengers that currently connect off of those airlines onto a UA, AA, AW, SW etc and get left with a sour taste in their mouth from the American carrier.
 
JHCRJ700
Posts: 215
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:51 pm

RE: Could VX Adopt An AS-type Model And Make Money?

Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:29 pm

Quoting Polot (Reply 1):
problem with VX is that it doesn't offer anything unique

I think their in flight experience is unique and sets them apart from other airlines. Their interiors are a refreshing change from the run of the mill cabins out there. However their network isn't unique.
RUSH
 
phxmkeflyer
Posts: 187
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2003 9:11 am

RE: Could VX Adopt An AS-type Model And Make Money?

Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:41 pm

Quoting rickabone (Reply 6):
I disagree. VX offers a level of service, style and a coolness factor that I think might appeal to some of the higher end (service wise) foreign carriers that fly into LAX & SFO


The "coolness" factor and high level of service only matters to a niche market and a very small one at that. The vast majority of travelers care MUCH more about cost, schedule of flight times, flight frequency, etc. as opposed to "coolness".

As others have stated, VX offers virtually nothing of value to potential codeshare partners in terms of reaching market share that they can't or already don't have in their respective networks. Whereas, AS is incredibly dominant in the Pac NW and Alaska. No other carrier has the kind of market share that AS does in these regions thus you see numerous codeshare agreements with AS.
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 3637
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

RE: Could VX Adopt An AS-type Model And Make Money?

Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:11 pm

Unfortunately, being a "cool" airline doesn't translate into to consistent profits. I think part of what's killing VX is the lack of flight connectability, especially between to the East Coast.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 18971
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Could VX Adopt An AS-type Model And Make Money?

Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:25 pm

Quoting JHCRJ700 (Reply 7):
I think their in flight experience is unique and sets them apart from other airlines. Their interiors are a refreshing change from the run of the mill cabins out there.

Those things aren't important to enough passengers. They usually have little or no idea what product is offered on codeshare partners. Schedules, frequency and resulting convenient connections are more important.
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 4775
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

RE: Could VX Adopt An AS-type Model And Make Money?

Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:31 pm

Quoting JHCRJ700 (Reply 7):
I think their in flight experience is unique and sets them apart from other airlines. Their interiors are a refreshing change from the run of the mill cabins out there. However their network isn't unique.
Quoting rickabone (Reply 6):
I disagree. VX offers a level of service, style and a coolness factor that I think might appeal to some of the higher end (service wise) foreign carriers that fly into LAX & SFO. The codeshare agreement with Singapore (an airline world renowned for service) is indicative of that I think.

That is great and all...but not the primary reason that airlines codeshare with each other. They don't do it so their passengers can experience the service of another airline, they codeshare so that they can offer more destinations/flights without having to fly the routes themselves, making them more attractive for customers. Yes, VX's service might be of some attraction, but Singapore (an airline world renowned for service) has no problem codesharing with US Airways (an airline not world renowned for service).

[Edited 2012-12-22 12:31:55]
 
AlnessW
Posts: 607
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:23 pm

RE: Could VX Adopt An AS-type Model And Make Money?

Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:04 pm

Quoting Polot (Reply 1):
Right now the problem with VX is that it doesn't offer anything unique.

How do you mean, exactly? In terms of a route network (which I get that impression from your post), then I can sort of see the point you're getting at. However...

Quoting rickabone (Reply 6):
I disagree. VX offers a level of service, style and a coolness factor that I think might appeal to some of the higher end (service wise) foreign carriers that fly into LAX & SFO.
Quoting JHCRJ700 (Reply 7):
I think their in flight experience is unique and sets them apart from other airlines. Their interiors are a refreshing change from the run of the mill cabins out there.

This is more how I feel.

I think that one problem with VX is that there's too much competition on the routes they fly. VX added PDX in June of this year (I think) and they currently serve SFO and LAX. These are very big routes for PDX. While VX wants to tap into this big profit, the unfortunate reality is that instead of people actually supporting the new service like they should, they just end up "using" the airline to find lower fares on other airlines (like AS).   Bad plan.
 
bobnwa
Posts: 4463
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: Could VX Adopt An AS-type Model And Make Money?

Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:56 pm

Can we stop with the Alasska whores itself out. The first time it was stated it was funny, but no longer shows wit and humor
 
phxmkeflyer
Posts: 187
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2003 9:11 am

RE: Could VX Adopt An AS-type Model And Make Money?

Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:42 pm

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 12):
VX added PDX in June of this year (I think) and they currently serve SFO and LAX

Your exactly right, they did.

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 12):
These are very big routes for PDX.

Which is exactly why AS and UA had the competitive response they did by increasing ASM's (capacity) at times over 50% in some months.

This is one of the major reasons VX is having so much difficulty. They are introducing a high end product to already well established markets by other carriers who are going to protect their market share and VX is not able to garner high enough yields to sustain profitability. Compound this with the current "weak" economy that we're in and you have a formula that doesn't bode well for a business model such as VX.

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 13):
Can we stop with the Alasska whores itself out. The first time it was stated it was funny, but no longer shows wit and humor


   Probably the best response to this thread yet!
 
ytz
Posts: 3033
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:31 am

RE: Could VX Adopt An AS-type Model And Make Money?

Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:52 pm

They're going to take a hit as legacy carriers upgrade their service. See AA's 321 TCONs due to be inducted next year. VX should have launched with 321s offering similar service on TCONs. And 319s to serve feeder cities.
 
ytz
Posts: 3033
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:31 am

RE: Could VX Adopt An AS-type Model And Make Money?

Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:07 am

The prestige larger cities can work if you have a unique angle...like flying to city centre airports like MDW, DCA, LGA or HOU.
 
rickabone
Posts: 152
Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 8:06 am

RE: Could VX Adopt An AS-type Model And Make Money?

Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:15 am

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 12):
That is great and all...but not the primary reason that airlines codeshare with each other. They don't do it so their passengers can experience the service of another airline, they codeshare so that they can offer more destinations/flights without having to fly the routes themselves, making them more attractive for customers. Yes, VX's service might be of some attraction, but Singapore (an airline world renowned for service) has no problem codesharing with US Airways (an airline not world renowned for service).

Then why did Singapore decide to codeshare with them when United, Singapore's Star Alliance partner serves exactly every destination from SFO & LAX that VX does? It must have played some sort of decision, maybe not the primary one, but it probably did play a factor. I'm sure there are tons of angry emails, justified or not, from passengers that get the 'impression' that they are on a premium carrier and get a connecting flight on another 'lesser' carrier, not exactly knowing how the system works.

Also, I think the 'niche' is bigger than some on A-Net say. There are more and more people converting over to VX and their load factors are actually pretty good on most of their routes. Their inability to make profits hasn't come from an inability to fill planes. And I, along with several of my friends and co-workers have opted to pay a few dollars more (that's usually all it is) to fly on VX vs. UA or AA or AW or SW.
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 4775
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

RE: Could VX Adopt An AS-type Model And Make Money?

Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:34 am

Quoting rickabone (Reply 18):
Then why did Singapore decide to codeshare with them when United, Singapore's Star Alliance partner serves exactly every destination from SFO & LAX that VX does? It must have played some sort of decision, maybe not the primary one, but it probably did play a factor. I'm sure there are tons of angry emails, justified or not, from passengers that get the 'impression' that they are on a premium carrier and get a connecting flight on another 'lesser' carrier, not exactly knowing how the system works.

Who knows, but SQ is more than willing to sell you on their website an itinerary that involves you connecting aboard a UA flight, even if they don't codeshare.

Quoting rickabone (Reply 18):
Also, I think the 'niche' is bigger than some on A-Net say. There are more and more people converting over to VX and their load factors are actually pretty good on most of their routes. Their inability to make profits hasn't come from an inability to fill planes

Codesharing is not the answer to this problem though.
 
AlnessW
Posts: 607
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:23 pm

RE: Could VX Adopt An AS-type Model And Make Money?

Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:35 am

Quoting phxmkeflyer (Reply 14):
Your exactly right, they did.

Thank you for clarifying!  
Quoting phxmkeflyer (Reply 14):
This is one of the major reasons VX is having so much difficulty. They are introducing a high end product to already well established markets by other carriers who are going to protect their market share and VX is not able to garner high enough yields to sustain profitability. Compound this with the current "weak" economy that we're in and you have a formula that doesn't bode well for a business model such as VX.

I think you've hit the nail on the head, phxmkeflyer.
 
strfyr51
Posts: 2106
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

RE: Could VX Adopt An AS-type Model And Make Money?

Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:59 am

Quoting Polot (Reply 11):

SQ and US are in the same Alliance, there's no reason for them NOT to code share with US, What VX needs to do is to first INTERLNE with everybody and their Brother like AS does. Once they can get their name over to every passenger with where-EVER they fly, then? they can look for a code share partner but their cabins won't count for much until they have more than any OTHER "1 Trick Pony" Airline. Get to Building a network with other like sized airlines. Like F9 You don't HAVE to merge to set up code shares to where you Don't go. Does VX fly SFO- AUS or what about same plane service SFO-DFW-GSO? or SFO-MSP- PIT-JFK? Do something Nobody else Does. Connect SFO to MEM-BNA-ATL or
SJC-AUS-BOS to connect the hi tech Group? Do something Different. Find a Need and Fill it !!
 
CM
Posts: 623
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:17 am

RE: Could VX Adopt An AS-type Model And Make Money?

Sun Dec 23, 2012 4:00 am

There's another challenge VX faces...

VX is small enough that when they try to compete in a market where one of the majors is active, the major will happily cut fares in that market just to the point where they know VX cannot make money. We see this everywhere a start-up attempts to enter an already served market. The only airline to survive this gauntlet in recent years has been B6.

By serving secondary markets, AS has survived/thrived unmolested by the majors, for the most part - and even found willing partners. VX has made the mistake of going head-to-head with the big guys, who can afford to gut their own profit from a single market in order to make life miserable for the new kid on the block. The legality of this tactic has often be questioned, but it is a real phenomenon and it has been going on since deregulation.

IMHO, VX will change their business model or they will eventually close shop.
 
AA94
Posts: 650
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 1:37 am

RE: Could VX Adopt An AS-type Model And Make Money?

Sun Dec 23, 2012 4:23 am

I am a huge fan of VX. I love their product, I think the service (especially in the back) is above par, and I think that they bring a lot to the table in terms of passenger experience.

However, I will be the first to admit that their business model is flawed, and that has contributed negatively to their overall success. They've established service at markets that were already well-served and had a significant FF base, possibly with corporate contracts. Combine that with the fact that they are not a member of one of the three major alliances and have no means of capturing international connections (aside from their partnerships with a handful of international airlines) and therein lies the problem.

IMO, AS has been successful because they captured an important regional market and made a name for themselves. The competition (DL/AA) has decided that they can't beat AS at their own game, and have decided to join them instead. AS had a route network that other airlines couldn't successfully match, and so a partnership was born.

VX doesn't have a unique route network, they just have a unique product. But with the legacy airline experience improving, that product is becoming less and less unique.

So yes, as a VX fan, I am gutted at their situation. However, it seems hardly surprising. I really wish them the best, they're going to need it.

Quoting phxmkeflyer (Reply 14):
This is one of the major reasons VX is having so much difficulty. They are introducing a high end product to already well established markets by other carriers who are going to protect their market share and VX is not able to garner high enough yields to sustain profitability. Compound this with the current "weak" economy that we're in and you have a formula that doesn't bode well for a business model such as VX.

  

Quoting CM (Reply 22):
By serving secondary markets, AS has survived/thrived unmolested by the majors, for the most part - and even found willing partners. VX has made the mistake of going head-to-head with the big guys, who can afford to gut their own profit from a single market in order to make life miserable for the new kid on the block. The legality of this tactic has often be questioned, but it is a real phenomenon and it has been going on since deregulation.

  

We see UA doing this exact thing on their transcons from EWR. Responding to VX's new EWR-LAX/SFO service, UA introduced nearly hourly flights between the two coasts. Will they be able to sustain this? Unlikely. Will they make money off it? Unlikely. But it might be enough to push VX out of the market. VX seems to have a nasty habit of entering markets that have an established airline and going to head to head with them .. not the smartest play IMO.
If you can't take the heat, you best get out of the kitchen
 
phxmkeflyer
Posts: 187
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2003 9:11 am

RE: Could VX Adopt An AS-type Model And Make Money?

Sun Dec 23, 2012 4:45 am

Quoting rickabone (Reply 18):
I, along with several of my friends and co-workers have opted to pay a few dollars more (that's usually all it is) to fly on VX vs. UA or AA or AW or SW.

I'm with you, I'd pick to travel VX any day over any other carrier if I could. Their product isn't debatable, it's awesome!

Quoting rickabone (Reply 18):
I think the 'niche' is bigger than some on A-Net say.

VX is able to tap into the niche market that they serve (trendy/young/business demographic), however that niche market simply isn't large enough to sustain their business model. B6 was the "trendy" airline a decade ago, however in order to keep growing, they adjusted their business model and focused on leisure pax/destinations and they entered markets that weren't inundated with competition unlike VX. Two decades ago YX was winning awards left and right for their service and appealing to a niche market (business traveler), yet they couldn't sustain high enough revenues to produce consistent profits and no longer exist. My point here is that an airline can't simply focus on a niche market in order to survive, it just doesn't work.

Quoting rickabone (Reply 18):
There are more and more people converting over to VX and their load factors are actually pretty good on most of their routes.

The reason they have "decent" load factors is they have to backfill their pax mix with discount/junk fares that they have to sell as they simply can't fill planes with high yielding pax aside from a few select markets. They have to push for load factor over yield which results in lower RASM, not a good formula for a carrier trying to establish itself financially speaking.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Crew
Posts: 11819
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

RE: Could VX Adopt An AS-type Model And Make Money?

Sun Dec 23, 2012 5:14 am

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 3):
Quoting Polot (Reply 1):
Right now the problem with VX is that it doesn't offer anything unique

cant be stated enough

I agree with the route network. There is no 'trapped market' for VX unlike with Alaska and AS...

Quoting rickabone (Reply 6):
VX offers a level of service, style and a coolness factor that I think might appeal to some of the higher end (service wise) foreign carriers that fly into LAX & SFO.

VX lacks enough destinations to matter. Most of those 'high end carriers' already have an alliance partner too. I agree the service has potential, but the first part of service is being able to fly the passenger where they want to go. For example, from SFO (or LAX), they are missing PHX, SLC, DEN, and IAH. Since most of the airlines fly to JFK or EWR, the Tcons won't be of much value.

Quoting phxmkeflyer (Reply 8):
The vast majority of travelers care MUCH more about cost, schedule of flight times, flight frequency, etc. as opposed to "coolness".

I'm two different customers when I fly. For business, it is all about schedule/frequency. For leisure, it is cost. Naturally, for both I look a little into comfort. But for business, policies keep me from spending any more. For leisure... I'm cheap. I admit it.   There really isn't that much difference in a coach seat and since I board 'prepared,' the other stuff is only to keep alcoholic salesmen from bothering me. (I can't stand sitting next to someone who has had too much to drink if there isn't IFE to distract them.)


Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
AlnessW
Posts: 607
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:23 pm

RE: Could VX Adopt An AS-type Model And Make Money?

Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:02 pm

Quoting CM (Reply 21):
IMHO, VX will change their business model or they will eventually close shop.

That is indeed probably what will end up happening.

Quoting AA94 (Reply 22):
I am a huge fan of VX. I love their product, I think the service (especially in the back) is above par, and I think that they bring a lot to the table in terms of passenger experience.
Quoting AA94 (Reply 22):
However, I will be the first to admit that their business model is flawed, and that has contributed negatively to their overall success. They've established service at markets that were already well-served and had a significant FF base, possibly with corporate contracts. Combine that with the fact that they are not a member of one of the three major alliances and have no means of capturing international connections (aside from their partnerships with a handful of international airlines) and therein lies the problem.

  

Quoting AA94 (Reply 22):
VX doesn't have a unique route network, they just have a unique product.

I would say that's a fair statement.

Quoting PHXMKEflyer (Reply 23):
I'm with you, I'd pick to travel VX any day over any other carrier if I could. Their product isn't debatable, it's awesome!

For sure!  
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 13438
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

RE: Could VX Adopt An AS-type Model And Make Money?

Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:05 pm

Quoting rickabone (Reply 17):
I, along with several of my friends and co-workers have opted to pay a few dollars more (that's usually all it is) to fly on VX vs. UA or AA or AW or SW.

The fact that it's merely small groups of people willing to defect to VX is what keeps them from being profitable.

And who are AW and SW? I'm unfamiliar with these carriers.  
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
NWADTWE16
Posts: 242
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:12 am

RE: Could VX Adopt An AS-type Model And Make Money?

Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:48 pm

You guys constantly point to VX selling these 'backfill' cheap-o seats but i never see last minute fares on VX cheap..they are always right on par with the competitors in whatever market, and thats when its obvious...if your not being bent over by your loyalty to sh*tty airline A you have freedom to pay the same fare and fly with some style, comfort and class. I do give credit to those defending VX in here...i will always and as usual theres the same group of negative 'Big Dogs' who somehow dont annoy themselves repeating the same crap week after week. I think they want all the airlines of the US to merge in one AMERI-FLOT!!
 
skycub
Posts: 318
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:49 pm

RE: Could VX Adopt An AS-type Model And Make Money?

Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:46 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 26):
And who are AW and SW? I'm unfamiliar with these carriers.

Africa World Airlines and Air Namibia. LOL.
My opinions are my own. They are not representative of my employer, my union or my co-workers. They are all mine.
 
AirframeAS
Posts: 9811
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 3:56 pm

RE: Could VX Adopt An AS-type Model And Make Money?

Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:53 am

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 13):
Can we stop with the Alasska whores itself out. The first time it was stated it was funny, but no longer shows wit and humor

But it is true, as a matter if fact. That's their reputation and its serving them quite well. They even called themselves that. Just look at how many airlines they codeshare with. I think it's 22+.

You need to lighten up a bit as well, buddy.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
CM
Posts: 623
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:17 am

RE: Could VX Adopt An AS-type Model And Make Money?

Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:33 am

Quoting NWADTWE16 (Reply 27):
You guys constantly point to VX selling these 'backfill' cheap-o seats but i never see last minute fares on VX cheap..they are always right on par with the competitors in whatever market, and thats when its obvious...

OAG is the best way for you to see what is going on, but you can get some sense of what is happening on with VX by just going to a 3rd party site like Orbitz or Travelocity. I just did a quick search on a 12/24 SFO-LAX routing, returning on 12/25. Here's what came up:

VX - $393.60 - 11 seats available
AA - $566.60 - 3 seats available
DL - $596.60 - 8 seats available
AS - $771.60 - 23 seats available
UA - $812.40

Airlines make excess capacity available to these third party clearance houses in the hopes of recouping something on seats they do not expect to otherwise sell. VX is making a number of seats available that is in line with other operators, but at a significantly lower fare.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Crew
Posts: 11819
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

RE: Could VX Adopt An AS-type Model And Make Money?

Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:24 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 29):
Just look at how many airlines they codeshare with. I think it's 22+.

To me that is a smart way to bring in revenue and have AS access markets that would not be profitable to them *at this time*.

Quoting CM (Reply 30):
VX is making a number of seats available that is in line with other operators, but at a significantly lower fare.

Thank you for looking that up. It does imply VX is using the clearing houses extensively. Once upon a time, for a LCC that was a *good thing* as they could sell tickets on the clearing houses for more than cost. It was an easy way to pick up new customers. Now, I just did a search for LAX-BOS and VX wasn't the cheapest (AA was, B6 the most expensive) for 1st week of January. I also search for flying out Christmas and returning new years day and B6 and AA were the cheapest wtih VX about 10% more expensive (UA charging quite a bit more and DL not showing up for a non-stop).

How are you getting the seat counts? I'm not finding that listed on Orbitz.

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
AlnessW
Posts: 607
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:23 pm

RE: Could VX Adopt An AS-type Model And Make Money?

Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:56 pm

Quoting CM (Reply 30):

Thanks for that info.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 31):
How are you getting the seat counts?

I'm not sure. Try booking directly with the airline?
 
CM
Posts: 623
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:17 am

RE: Could VX Adopt An AS-type Model And Make Money?

Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:33 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 31):
How are you getting the seat counts? I'm not finding that listed on Orbitz.

I was just noting the count from the seat map showing which seats had been made available to Orbitz. I should be clear; this is not a way you could veryify load factors. As I noted in an earlier post, you would need to go to OAG for this.
 
rickabone
Posts: 152
Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 8:06 am

RE: Could VX Adopt An AS-type Model And Make Money?

Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:08 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 26):
And who are AW and SW? I'm unfamiliar with these carriers.

Sorry, I only know ATC abbreviations for airlines, so I'm just guessing on the lingo you guys use and am a bit too lazy to look it up.

Who is online