FFlyerCDG
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Everything Is Bigger In CDG :-)

Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:31 pm

WN in the mud this morning with 129 Pax and 5 crews in a 737...
TK with 278 Pax and 10 crews in an A330 two hours ago in the mud again in CDG...
An A380 by midnight would be great  http://actu.orange.fr/revue/actualit...esse-1199530+1199530/#read-1199530
 
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Francoflier
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RE: Everything Is Bigger In CDG :-)

Fri Dec 28, 2012 12:07 am

It's just a fad, it'll pass.

And apart from delays, fees and staff ego, nothing's bigger in CDG...

  
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PHX787
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RE: Everything Is Bigger In CDG :-)

Fri Dec 28, 2012 12:59 am

Quoting francoflier (Reply 1):
And apart from delays, fees and staff ego, nothing's bigger in CDG...

Well I connected through CDG on my only trip in Europe....it was a very nice experience. Landing on the remotes, the speedy customs, and all of the walking   

It was 8 in the morning and I enjoyed a nice Croissant from the F concourse bakery lol
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DocLightning
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RE: Everything Is Bigger In CDG :-)

Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:39 am

Quoting francoflier (Reply 1):
And apart from delays, fees and staff ego, nothing's bigger in CDG...

Every time a Frenchman complains about infrastructure and public works, an American child falls into a pothole in the street.

Please think of the children.  
Quoting FFlyerCDG (Thread starter):
An A380 by midnight would be great  

Oh what a mess that would be.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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FFlyerCDG
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RE: Everything Is Bigger In CDG :-)

Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:03 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 2):
Well I connected through CDG on my only trip in Europe....it was a very nice experience. Landing on the remotes, the speedy customs, and all of the walking

All doctors say that walking and doing some exercise after a long flight is a very good thing !  
 
PanHAM
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RE: Everything Is Bigger In CDG :-)

Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:23 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 3):

Every time a Frenchman complains about infrastructure and public works, an American child falls into a pothole in the street.

Now I know why they don't fill the potholes in the USA.  


I heard about that TK A330 in the 6 am radio news but not afzter that time., Looked for the thread here but nada. Slow time between the holidays.
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airbazar
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RE: Everything Is Bigger In CDG :-)

Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:38 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 2):
Well I connected through CDG on my only trip in Europe....it was a very nice experience. Landing on the remotes, the speedy customs, and all of the walking

The new international concourse is a delight, and having all AF flights consolidated in the same terminal since last Summer is a huge improvement. The immigration lines however are a nightmare, if you are arriving in France. I spent half an hour in the EU line (ridiculous), my fellow J class friends without an EU passport spent about 45 mins in the "priority" line, and the other lines looked absurdly long and slow. CDG makes US immigration lines look good.
 
icarus75
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RE: Everything Is Bigger In CDG :-)

Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:53 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 6):
CDG makes US immigration lines look good

Are you kidding? I really think that CDG immigration is not worse than US immigration which is really a nightmare!

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 2):
and all of the walking

Like in all big major airports around the world
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AirPacific747
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RE: Everything Is Bigger In CDG :-)

Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:17 pm

Looks like a TK A340-300 in the picture in the article to me.
 
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AirPacific747
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RE: Everything Is Bigger In CDG :-)

Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:50 pm

I just realized it's a stock photo from a recent incident last year in India. My bad!
 
airbazar
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RE: Everything Is Bigger In CDG :-)

Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:00 pm

Quoting Icarus75 (Reply 7):
Are you kidding? I really think that CDG immigration is not worse than US immigration which is really a nightmare!

As a GC holder I have never spent more than 5-10 minutes in a immigration line in the US. That is significantly better than the time I spent at the immigration line in CDG as a EU citizen that I am. So, no I am not kidding.
My family who are European and come visit me every year, are usually thru immigration and customs in less than 1 hour. The line I witnessed at CDG for non EU citizens had to be close to 1.5 hours long. It was well past the 1 hour sign.
 
Jano
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RE: Everything Is Bigger In CDG :-)

Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:32 pm

Quoting Icarus75 (Reply 7):
Are you kidding? I really think that CDG immigration is not worse than US immigration which is really a nightmare!

Nope, immigration-wise comparing CDG to ATL and DTW I can say both ATL and DTW are generally faster and less troublesome. And that is taking into account one big advantage of CDG, which is when traveling with a small kid (4x in last 32 months when my son was 5, 19, 29, 32 month old) my family was usually routed either into the first class immigration line or at the front of normal line the moment we were spotted by ADP agent (or whoever those people were working for).
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jayeshrulz
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RE: Everything Is Bigger In CDG :-)

Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:21 pm

I love the picture that they've used. The TK A340-300 which got stuck in mud last October at BOM with the AI tail in the background        
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Francoflier
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RE: Everything Is Bigger In CDG :-)

Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:17 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 3):
Every time a Frenchman complains about infrastructure and public works, an American child falls into a pothole in the street.

 

I don't complain much about infrastructure. I just think that ADP is doing a terrible job at running CDG. Especially considering it's one of the most expensive airports in the world in terms of user and operator fees. You certainly don't get your money's worth!

Arriving from an intercontinental flight early morning into terminal 2A, for instance, is a nightmare. The jetway takes forever to dock, there is only one because the other one always seems to be unserviceable, it takes forever to reach the immigration lines (early terminals are built with arrivals and departure lounges on the same level, with these ridiculous crossings). The immigration lines are very long, no matter whether you are or not a EU resident. Once you eventually get through that, you go and cram yourself into the ridiculously small baggage claim area where you wait for about 45 minutes for your bags to arrive (not accounting for the immigration downtime!). Then you emerge into a small and overcrowded terminal, with little facilities, no wifi, connecting between terminals is long, you wait forever outside for a crowded bus to come by (the timetable is there for show), etc...
A taxi into town will charge you about the price of the flight you took to get there, the train connection is downright scary, the busses take about two hours thanks to the traffic jams.
On top of all that, it's Paris so everybody has a temper and is rude.

If, say, the origin of your trip is a major Asian or middle eastern hub, you're in for a shock.
It really makes you wonder which of the country you left or the one you arrived is indeed a developed country.

Even when I used to operate there, there always seemed to be some sort of snag at some point along the process which meant we never, ever, left on time from there.

I don't go there as often anymore, and I know newer terminals are much better, at least in terms of space and layout, but it's still far from an acceptable experience.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
sandyb123
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RE: Everything Is Bigger In CDG :-)

Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:35 pm

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 8):
Looks like a TK A340-300 in the picture in the article to me.

  

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 2):
Well I connected through CDG on my only trip in Europe....it was a very nice experience

CDG is known as a complete hell hole and many of my colleagues avoid it like the plague.

I flew to / from CDG in September with my partner, daughter and baby. It was the best choice for a EuroDisney & Parisian break. The experience was horrendous. Trying to find the train station no mind a train was near impossible and there was little information about public transport. We ended up taking a taxi both ways.

On the return trip, we were accosted by a pick-poket who tried to steal my iPhone. When I clocked it he started with a rant, shouting and spitting which really frightened us. Then we got through to the gate and there were no toilets, shops bars anything! We had to go back through security just so we could change my babies nappy.

Hellish place with horrible staff and criminals skulking round every corner. But what's the alternative?

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Jet-lagged
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RE: Everything Is Bigger In CDG :-)

Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:05 pm

I've always had a poor opinion of CDG. Then a month ago I transitted through the new concourse. That was very very nice. Pleasant, spacious, lots of power outlets, and even a beautiful vertical garden. Really classy.
 
FFlyerCDG
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RE: Everything Is Bigger In CDG :-)

Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:26 pm

Quoting francoflier (Reply 13):
The immigration lines are very long

"Francoflier" suggests you're French...
Maybe should you stop complaining about immigration lines for a minute and have a look to that  http://www.aeroportsdeparis.fr/ADP/f...ormalites-Infos-Pratiques/Parafes/
 
FFlyerCDG
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RE: Everything Is Bigger In CDG :-)

Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:47 pm

Quoting jet-lagged (Reply 15):
I've always had a poor opinion of CDG. Then a month ago I transitted through the new concourse. That was very very nice. Pleasant, spacious, lots of power outlets, and even a beautiful vertical garden. Really classy.

Thanks for that !!

Maybe some French guys should spend more time transiting in CDG than complaining here  
 
PHX787
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RE: Everything Is Bigger In CDG :-)

Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:18 am

Quoting FFlyerCDG (Reply 4):
All doctors say that walking and doing some exercise after a long flight is a very good thing !

Well it is true I never had jetlag on that trip  
Quoting Icarus75 (Reply 7):
Like in all big major airports around the world

I didn't say I minded it  I enjoy a nice walk through a terminal. Half the reason why I make my connections at MSP. Love the walk from F to B  
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Rafabozzolla
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RE: Everything Is Bigger In CDG :-)

Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:55 am

Quoting airbazar (Reply 10):
As a GC holder I have never spent more than 5-10 minutes in a immigration line in the US. That is significantly better than the time I spent at the immigration line in CDG as a EU citizen that I am. So, no I am not kidding.
My family who are European and come visit me every year, are usually thru immigration and customs in less than 1 hour. The line I witnessed at CDG for non EU citizens had to be close to 1.5 hours long. It was well past the 1 hour sign.

As an EU passport holder my experience arriving in Europe has always been seamless and that includes AMS, LIS, MAD, CDG and yes, even LHR.

In the USA on the other hand it's been mixed (of course I don't have an US passport so it's a different story)... SFO and DFW early morning were fine, MIA is always a nightmare in the early morning rush from South America. The worst, however, was DFW in the European afternoon bank of arrivals. Twice did have I missed connections there.
 
airbazar
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RE: Everything Is Bigger In CDG :-)

Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:44 pm

Quoting Rafabozzolla (Reply 19):

In the USA on the other hand it's been mixed (of course I don't have an US passport so it's a different story)...

You're comparing apples and oranges. First off, you can't compare resident on one side vs. non-resident on the other side. But I too have never had any significant delays at FRA, MUC, LHR, LIS, AMS. I'm not a frequent visitor to CDG so maybe my experience last October was unusual or I arrived at the worst possible time of day: 8am. However I was struck by the small number of immigration booths for such a large airport at that time of day. Maybe there was a strike or something. The immigration hall was absurdly crowded. The lines wrapped all the way around into the corridor that leads in from the train.
 
jetlife2
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RE: Everything Is Bigger In CDG :-)

Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:03 pm

I have to speak up here in favor of CDG. The Access No. 1 line at immigration is fantastic (for those who can use it). Frequently I walk right up and pause zero to 3 minutes, then through...walking past a line of 100's of others in the process. As a visitor that option is really, really appreciated, and something that does not exist in the US (I exclude here Global Entry, etc which is a whole different discussion, since such systems exist in both places). Thanks CDG.
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PanHAM
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RE: Everything Is Bigger In CDG :-)

Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:09 pm

The travel section of WELT on Sunday had an article about CDG and decölared it as worst airport of the world.

Particularly, they said, Aeroports de Paris does everything to keep that status.....  

Remark from me, it would be great to have everything, signs and announcements at least in one foreign language, which should be English. It's uselesss to stand on the RER platform not bveeing able to fully understand what the guy said.
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Aquila3
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RE: Everything Is Bigger In CDG :-)

Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:25 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 22):
Remark from me, it would be great to have everything, signs and announcements at least in one foreign language, which should be English. It's uselesss to stand on the RER platform not bveeing able to fully understand what the guy said.

Are you kidding?
I believe there is a French Law that forbids that, to avoid contamination of the French Language......   
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L410Turbolet
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RE: Everything Is Bigger In CDG :-)

Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:57 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 22):
The travel section of WELT on Sunday had an article about CDG and decölared it as worst airport of the world.

Worst in the world? I am no CDG fan with but this seems a bit unfair. CDG is a dysfunctional mess but there are other, far worse airports imho: DOH, SVO or GIG for example.
 
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Francoflier
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RE: Everything Is Bigger In CDG :-)

Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:36 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 22):
Particularly, they said, Aeroports de Paris does everything to keep that status.....

It's a matter of Gallic pride.


As far as 'the worst', in absolute terms, I would say no, there are far worse airports around the globe.

Now, as far as 'worst' in the field of major international airports with high traffic, considering the ratio of quality of services rendered to the amount of user fees, then it might just be.

Quoting FFlyerCDG (Reply 17):
Maybe some French guys should spend more time transiting in CDG than complaining here

I'm mean because I care!  
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Azure
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RE: Everything Is Bigger In CDG :-)

Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:47 pm

I seldom read as many approximations and false statements (voluntary or not) as in this thread!

Of course all signs and announcements are translated in English at CDG! There might be one section of the airport where this does not happen : the metro/RER station. Should it be the case (I do not remember), this place is not under the authority of the airport operator (ADP) but of the subway operator (RATP). And everybody in Paris would agree that these folks are among the most conservative you can find on Earth... However the only thing you need to know once you are at the subway station is your final destination in town and this is clearly indicated, unlike in other major cities in the world....


Quoting Aquila3 (Reply 23):
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 22):
Remark from me, it would be great to have everything, signs and announcements at least in one foreign language, which should be English. It's uselesss to stand on the RER platform not bveeing able to fully understand what the guy said.

Are you kidding?
I believe there is a French Law that forbids that, to avoid contamination of the French Language......   

Wrong ! The law you are refering to (Law # 94-665 of August 4 1994 or Loi Toubon) bears many exceptions, including international transportations ! Off topic, but this law is intended to protect the consumers' rights (eg users manuals for products sold in France must be translated in French). Which makes sense after all. Now one question : in your country, can I have a civil contract drawn up only in French and argue it has a legal value ?


As for the airport itself, I agree that terminals 2A, 2B, 2C and 2D are totally useless for a hub ! There were designed by Aéroports de Paris to "simplify (read shorten) the journey of the traveler" if I remember. Indeed, if you are coming from downtown Paris or from the suburbs, it is a very simple process from checking in to boarding. But the architects obviously forgot that said traveler is not only a parisian but also a connecting passenger... I may be mistaken but these terminals were designed before AF established their hub strategy.... Fortunately, terminals 2E and 2F (where all AF/KL flights are consolidated) are better designed. Connections within these two terminals are really smooth and easy except for the long walks (as in any other major hub in the world). As for Terminal 1, it is small and dated but its "futuristic" architecture from the 70s is pretty unique...I love it but understand some may hate it !

Quoting francoflier (Reply 13):
If, say, the origin of your trip is a major Asian or middle eastern hub, you're in for a shock.
It really makes you wonder which of the country you left or the one you arrived is indeed a developed country.

French really love to complain especially about their own country ! Indeed CDG does not look like a giant mall like DXB or SIN ! But IMO the architecture or the views of the apron compensate !

Quoting francoflier (Reply 13):
it's Paris so everybody has a temper and is rude.

Agreed, but not worse than in NYC for instance  


Quoting airbazar (Reply 20):
I arrived at the worst possible time of day: 8am. However I was struck by the small number of immigration booths for such a large airport at that time of day. Maybe there was a strike or something. The immigration hall was absurdly crowded. The lines wrapped all the way around into the corridor that leads in from the train.

There were probably no strike : 7/8AM is indeed the worst arrival time of day... I know the airport authority and AF are well aware of the lack of immigration officers at this time. But the immigration police ("police de l'air et des frontières") cannot care less about the constant complains : totally typical of an administration... I figure you waited for one hour or so before passing the control : well, not a pleasant wait after an intercontinental redeye, but not so unusual for a major airport when you are not a country citizen. I had similar experiences in the US, in Australia, but also in India , Indonesia and even Singapore...


Quoting sandyb123 (Reply 14):
Then we got through to the gate and there were no toilets, shops bars anything! We had to go back through security just so we could change my babies nappy.

I can understand you were really stressed after your incident with a pickpocket (hope you reported to the police or the army which are everywhere in the premises) but I can assure you there are toilets after the security checks in all terminals at CDG !
 
PanHAM
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RE: Everything Is Bigger In CDG :-)

Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:47 pm

Quoting francoflier (Reply 25):
As far as 'the worst', in absolute terms, I would say no, there are far worse airports around the globe.

Not my personal opinion either, just said what the article stated. but i liked the sentence that ADP does everything to maintain that status.

Sure there are worse airports around.   
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airbazar
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RE: Everything Is Bigger In CDG :-)

Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:19 am

Quoting Azure (Reply 26):

I figure you waited for one hour or so before passing the control : well, not a pleasant wait after an intercontinental redeye, but not so unusual for a major airport when you are not a country citizen. I had similar experiences in the US, in Australia, but also in India , Indonesia and even Singapore...

But I am a EU citizen. I used the same line as any French citizen. THAT's what was so absurd about he long wait. Such long wait does not happen anywhere in the world, even for non-citizens.
 
AF185
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RE: Everything Is Bigger In CDG :-)

Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:23 am

The service quality of CDG was not really the topic of this thread, but I'll go with my own comments

Being there again a few days ago, I found the overall airport pretty well ran. It took me exactly 5 minutes to go through customs (as opposed to 30min line in HK, 30min in DTW, and 45min in LAX...just 3 examples of my last flights).
Security staff is far more polite than any US staff, and speak good English

As for the terminals, as I usually fly AF, I must say 2E and 2F are great terminals. Duty free shopping is very nice, comfortable reclined seats (end of 2E) with beautiful view of the planes, free Video Games service..

All the signs are written in English, thus I don't believe any comments saying the opposite here.