ridgid727
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Empire To Operate HA's ATR 42's

Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:12 am

Empire Airlines of CoeurdAlene Idaho will be operating HA's ATR 42's

http://www.mcneilwilson.com/client-news/201212/3033
 
AWACSooner
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RE: Empire To Operate HA's ATR 42's

Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:36 am

Maybe I missed the other thread, but how many, and where to?
 
hawaiian717
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RE: Empire To Operate HA's ATR 42's

Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:45 am

2 aircraft, N801HC and N804HC which are still at Empire's base at Couer d'Alene, Idaho. Specific routes have not been announced.
 
AWACSooner
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RE: Empire To Operate HA's ATR 42's

Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:55 am

Thanks...
I was assuming something like Lanai and Kapalao...or whatever that airport is on the north side of Molokai...and maybe that other airport on the west side of Maui.
 
hawaiian717
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RE: Empire To Operate HA's ATR 42's

Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:03 am

Lanai, Hoolehua (Molokai), and Kapalua/West Maui all seem likely. They might also use the ATR-42s for direct flights between neighbor islands, bypassing Honolulu. Kalaupapa (the north shore community on Molokai you're referring to) doesn't seem like it is a likely candidate; the ATR seems too big. The 9 seat Grand Caravan is probably the right size, though Aloha IslandAir used to fly there with Twin Otters.
 
AWACSooner
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RE: Empire To Operate HA's ATR 42's

Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:09 am

I thought that Kalaupapa was going to finally get a road connection to the rest of the island and possibly be developed a tad...even though the rest of the island told vacation companies to stuff it.
 
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FedExFlyerPHL
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RE: Empire To Operate HA's ATR 42's

Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:28 am

So both IslandAir and Hawaiian will be using ATRs in Intraisland routes? Has IslandAir put theirs in service yet?

Jeff
Home base: SNA, LGB, LAX
 
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HA_DC9
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RE: Empire To Operate HA's ATR 42's

Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:33 am

Quoting FedExFlyerPHL (Reply 6):
So both IslandAir and Hawaiian will be using ATRs in Intraisland routes? Has IslandAir put theirs in service yet?

Not yet. It is sitting at Island Air's HNL ramp painted in the new colors. I think they are still training crews for it.

It should be noted too that yes, Island Air and now HA will be using ATR's interisland. HA's ATR's will be used for Molokai and Lanai service as well as the aforementioned additional service to their existing routes and islands per their press release a few months back. However, Island Air's ATR's (to my knowledge) will all be leased and the HA ATR's are all purchased. Island Air's ATR's will also be older models...the ATR-72's are -212s previously from American Eagle and the upcoming ATR-42's will be -320s. HA's ATR-42's will all be -500s.

Oh, and some other tidbits...Island Air and HA will be the second and third airlines respectively to operate regular scheduled passenger ATR's in Hawaii....now defunct Mahalo Air was the first in the 1990's to use them interisland by flying ATR-42-300/320s. Also, Empire Airlines that HA will be using was also used by Mahalo Air early on to operate their flights using Fokker F-27s while Mahalo worked on getting their own certification to fly.

[Edited 2012-12-27 23:44:45]

[Edited 2012-12-27 23:45:55]
 
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RWA380
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RE: Empire To Operate HA's ATR 42's

Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:30 am

Quoting HA_DC9 (Reply 7):
now defunct Mahalo Air was the first in the 1990's to use them interisland by flying ATR-42-300/320s. Also, Empire Airlines that HA will be using was also used by Mahalo Air early on to operate their flights using Fokker F-27s while Mahalo worked on getting their own certification to fly.

I was living in HNL at the time Mahalo began start-up, I remember the unforeseen hurdles they overcame in order to get running. The first day they started selling tickets, we went to the airport, and bought books of 10 coupons for $100.00, we bought 5 total, and took as many Mahalo flights as we could until their demise. We got to enjoy both the F-27's and ATR's, both were fine, even for 45 mins, I liked the F-27 for the viewing from those well placed large windows.
707, 717, 720, 727-1/2, 737-1/2/3/4/5/7/8/9, 747-1/2/3/4, 757, 767-2/3/4, 777, DC-8-5/6/7, DC-9-1/3/5, MD-80/2/3/7/8, DC-10-10/30/40, MD-11, F-27, F-28, SWM, J31, D38, DH7, DH8, DH4 SD-330, B-146, L-1011-2/500, ATR-42/72, VCV, A-300/310/318/319/320, CR2/7
 
HNLPointShoot
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RE: Empire To Operate HA's ATR 42's

Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:05 am

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 5):
I thought that Kalaupapa was going to finally get a road connection to the rest of the island and possibly be developed a tad...even though the rest of the island told vacation companies to stuff it.

It's highly unlikely Kalaupapa will get a road to topside in the near future, because of the 3,000+ foot cliffs that separate it from the rest of the island. It's also highly unlikely Kalaupapa itself will ever be developed, because the peninsula is also a national park.
 
Mcoov
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RE: Empire To Operate HA's ATR 42's

Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:42 am

I'm curious, how would the ATRs get from Idaho to Honolulu?
 
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b727fa
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RE: Empire To Operate HA's ATR 42's

Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:50 am

Quoting Mcoov (Reply 10):

They'll fly.

In all seriousness: likely from Dutch to Midway to LIH, to HNL
My comments/opinions are my own and are not to be construed as the opinion(s) of my employer.
 
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FedExFlyerPHL
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RE: Empire To Operate HA's ATR 42's

Sat Dec 29, 2012 8:22 am

Quoting HA_DC9 (Reply 7):
Not yet. It is sitting at Island Air's HNL ramp painted in the new colors. I think they are still training crews for it.

I got a photo of it in early November while waiting for my flight back to LAX. It looked nice.

Jeff
Home base: SNA, LGB, LAX
 
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RWA380
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RE: Empire To Operate HA's ATR 42's

Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:02 am

Quoting B727FA (Reply 11):
They'll fly.

In all seriousness: likely from Dutch to Midway to LIH, to HNL
Quoting HNLPointShoot (Reply 9):
I'm curious, how would the ATRs get from Idaho to Honolulu?

The ATR's recently delivered to WP were flown from MMV to HNL n/s fitted with bladder tanks, avoiding a costly routing via AK. I guess it depends on what day they take them over, maybe MRY-HNL, OTH-HNL or ???
707, 717, 720, 727-1/2, 737-1/2/3/4/5/7/8/9, 747-1/2/3/4, 757, 767-2/3/4, 777, DC-8-5/6/7, DC-9-1/3/5, MD-80/2/3/7/8, DC-10-10/30/40, MD-11, F-27, F-28, SWM, J31, D38, DH7, DH8, DH4 SD-330, B-146, L-1011-2/500, ATR-42/72, VCV, A-300/310/318/319/320, CR2/7
 
Passedv1
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RE: Empire To Operate HA's ATR 42's

Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:11 am

Quoting Mcoov (Reply 10):
I'm curious, how would the ATRs get from Idaho to Honolulu?

They will be fitted with ferry tanks and flown,likely from the bay area to Hawaii as that is the closest point on the mainland to Hawaii.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 13):
The ATR's recently delivered to WP were flown from MMV to HNL n/s fitted with bladder tanks, avoiding a costly routing via AK. I guess it depends on what day they take them over, maybe MRY-HNL, OTH-HNL or ???

I'm not sure how a routing over Alaska would be helpful as the distances from Alaska to Hawaii are just essentially just as great, if not greater than the west coast, couple that with the lack of support and the brutal weather and you may as well just sit it out on the west coast waiting for better conditions.

The ATR would not be a tough airplane to ferry, there is plenty of room for as many ferry tanks as you need. The link below is how Hawaiian gets it's 717's back and forth, it won't be any different.

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Hawai...d=0e303530f853999dc0cc76fa062ca124
 
Wingtips56
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RE: Empire To Operate HA's ATR 42's

Sat Dec 29, 2012 10:57 pm

Not a big deal; there are already Dash 8's, Shorts 360's there, plus light aircraft. Just load up with bladder tanks, bring a thermos of coffee and grind away across the sea.

Choosing Empire was a good move, as they are already an experienced U. S. ATR operator, flying them for FedEx links in the West. So the Hawaiian flights will probably show up in trackers as CFS___ flight numbers with the "Empire" call sign.
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines (Retired)
 
HNLPointShoot
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RE: Empire To Operate HA's ATR 42's

Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:32 am

Quoting PassedV1 (Reply 14):
I'm not sure how a routing over Alaska would be helpful as the distances from Alaska to Hawaii are just essentially just as great, if not greater than the west coast, couple that with the lack of support and the brutal weather and you may as well just sit it out on the west coast waiting for better conditions.

According to Great Circle Mapper, DUT-MDY is only about 1,850 miles, which is 550 miles shorter than MRY-HNL (and MDY-HNL is even less, at 1,300 miles), so flying via Alaska allows planes to spend less time in the air over the ocean even though it doubles or triples the total distance traveled.
 
Passedv1
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RE: Empire To Operate HA's ATR 42's

Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:43 am

Quoting HNLPointShoot (Reply 16):
According to Great Circle Mapper, DUT-MDY is only about 1,850 miles, which is 550 miles shorter than MRY-HNL (and MDY-HNL is even less, at 1,300 miles), so flying via Alaska allows planes to spend less time in the air over the ocean even though it doubles or triples the total distance traveled.

But first you gotta get to DUT..and then you are in DUT. And then you fly 1,300 miles...and then you are in MDY. In both of these places you would have minimal support. Flying up Southeast Alaska and then down the Alleutians to DUT can be an aviation feat in itself. The conditions this time of year are horrible. Doing this route might be a possibility if you were ferrying a barron or a Cessna 402 and you physically did not have the capability to fit all the gas required to get from the West Coast to Hawaii on the airplane, especially in the winter where the winds can be brutal for anyone trying to fly Westbound from the West Coast.

But for an airplane as big as an ATR, you would just put in enough tanks to make the crossing. Flying overwater in a twin engine turbo-prop is not a big deal.
 
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usxguy
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RE: Empire To Operate HA's ATR 42's

Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:11 am

actually most ferry flights leave from Adak, not Dutch Harbor. Weather and runway are too risky there. A fully loaded ATR could not get off of Dutch's runway.

During the Mokulele-Republic deal, the planes flew Anchorage - Adak - Midway - Honolulu
xx
 
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b727fa
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RE: Empire To Operate HA's ATR 42's

Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:49 pm

Thanks for the correction on Adak...
My comments/opinions are my own and are not to be construed as the opinion(s) of my employer.

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