doulasc
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National Airlines(NA) Route JFK-AMS

Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:31 pm

I was surprised National got a route to Europe from JFK,when Pan Am and TWA did the European flying from JFK.
When National got that route was TWA or Pan Am also operating JFK-AMS also.
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: National Airlines(NA) Route JFK-AMS

Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:36 pm

I did a little research on the invaluable departedflights.com. In 1979, NA route map showed JFK-AMS, while neither the TW nor PA route maps from the same year showed AMS as a destination.
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AeroWesty
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RE: National Airlines(NA) Route JFK-AMS

Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:04 pm

Quick summary:

The basics go back to the TWA/PA route swap and route discontinuation as a result of the oil crisis in the first half of the 1970s. As that deal became to be unwound in the last part of the '70s/early 80s, airlines without previous route authorities across the Atlantic made applications for new international routes during those heady days of deregulation, especially in markets where service was nonexistent or the market underserved. Braniff was also awarded routes to Amsterdam, from Boston and Dallas.

National's JFK-AMS service began 12/13/78. Beginning in the early 1980's, Pan Am began to expand more into southern Europe, the mainstay of TWA's routes, and TWA began to expand into northern Europe, where Pan Am had ruled the roost. I recall TWA extending its JFK-AMS service to CPH on the L-1011 sometime in the later 1980s, at least for part of the year, for instance.
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factsonly
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RE: National Airlines(NA) Route JFK-AMS

Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:29 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 2):
I recall TWA extending its JFK-AMS service to CPH on the L-1011 sometime in the later 1980s, at least for part of the year, for instance.

National operated the JFK-AMS-JFK route daily with DC10-30 for a brief period prior to PAnAms take-over. See the NationalSundowners for details: http://www.nationalsundowners.com/home.php

In the 1980's TWA operated the L1011 daily on flight TW814/TW815 routed JFK-AMS-BRU-AMS-JFK.

While in 1995 Delta flight 80 operated the L1011 on JFK-AMS-JFK, this flight connected at AMS with Delta's L1011 on ATL-AMS-STR-AMS-ATL offering Delta pax a JFK-AMS-STR option.

Please note that by 1995 deregulation had resulted in the following airlines operating the JFK-AMS-route:

- FF with B747
- SQ with B747
- DL with L1011
- BG with DC10
- RJ with L1011
- PK with DC10
- KL with B747
 
AeroWesty
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RE: National Airlines(NA) Route JFK-AMS

Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:36 pm

Quoting factsonly (Reply 3):
In the 1980's TWA operated the L1011 daily on flight TW814/TW815 routed JFK-AMS-BRU-AMS-JFK.

That was also one route. In the 1980s TWA also operated JFK-AMS nonstop standalone on the 747 and L-1011, plus they operated it as a tag on to one of the JFK-LHR 747 flights on Mo/Tu(?), at least one winter season, in lieu of the nonstop on those days of the week. On an award ticket I was allowed to pick up the tag at Heathrow as a through passenger, where they lost my luggage for two days during the connection, which is why I remember it so well!
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802flyguy
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RE: National Airlines(NA) Route JFK-AMS

Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:22 pm

I think that prior to the Pan Am merger, National was third largest US TATL carrier, behind PA and TW, with routes from both MIA and JFK.
 
N62NA
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RE: National Airlines(NA) Route JFK-AMS

Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:07 pm

Quoting 802flyguy (Reply 5):
I think that prior to the Pan Am merger, National was third largest US TATL carrier, behind PA and TW, with routes from both MIA and JFK.

Very impressive!
 
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BasilFawlty
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RE: National Airlines(NA) Route JFK-AMS

Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:24 pm

Quoting factsonly (Reply 3):
While in 1995 Delta flight 80 operated the L1011 on JFK-AMS-JFK, this flight connected at AMS with Delta's L1011 on ATL-AMS-STR-AMS-ATL offering Delta pax a JFK-AMS-STR option.

The good old days.    IIRC the JFK flight was extended to PRG for a while during that period.
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Viscount724
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RE: National Airlines(NA) Route JFK-AMS

Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:07 am

Quoting 802flyguy (Reply 5):
I think that prior to the Pan Am merger, National was third largest US TATL carrier, behind PA and TW, with routes from both MIA and JFK.

I think Braniff may have been the #3 U.S. carrier in transatlantic capacity just prior to the Pan Am/National meger. Timetables from the latter half of 1979 show National with 20 flights a week in each direction and Braniff with 18, but all Braniff flights were 747s which probably meant more total seats than National.
 
jfk777
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RE: National Airlines(NA) Route JFK-AMS

Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:52 am

National was proud of making a JFK to AMS statement since its was the "sixth" biggest Atlantic route.
 
factsonly
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RE: National Airlines(NA) Route JFK-AMS

Tue Jan 01, 2013 9:49 am


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LJ
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RE: National Airlines(NA) Route JFK-AMS

Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:43 am

Quoting BasilFawlty (Reply 7):
The good old days. IIRC the JFK flight was extended to PRG for a while during that period.

Yes and also briefly HAM (or was that PA?).

Quoting factsonly (Reply 3):
In the 1980's TWA operated the L1011 daily on flight TW814/TW815 routed JFK-AMS-BRU-AMS-JFK.

And later a 767 AMS-JFK-AMS flight.
 
PanHAM
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RE: National Airlines(NA) Route JFK-AMS

Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:16 am

Quoting LJ (Reply 11):
Yes and also briefly HAM (or was that PA?).

That was rather NW,

NA operated also FRA/AMS/MIA with D10-30
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LJ
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RE: National Airlines(NA) Route JFK-AMS

Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:25 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 12):
Quoting LJ (Reply 11):
Yes and also briefly HAM (or was that PA?).

That was rather NW,

I don't recall NW flying between AMS and HAM as a tag or triangular ex JFK...
 
Viscount724
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RE: National Airlines(NA) Route JFK-AMS

Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:38 pm

Quoting LJ (Reply 13):

I don't recall NW flying between AMS and HAM as a tag or triangular ex JFK.

HAM was a NW tag-on from both LGW and CPH during their first years of transatlantic service in the early '80s. In their August 1982 timetable they had a daily 747 to HAM, 5 x week via LGW and 2 x week via CPH. They appear not to have had 5th freedom rights LGW-HAM but they did CPH-HAM.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: National Airlines(NA) Route JFK-AMS

Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:54 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 12):
NA operated also FRA/AMS/MIA with D10-30

NA also operated TPA-AMS-FRA and for a short time a once weekly MIA-ZRH-ORY service.

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