sirnoble
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PWM Pre-Security "Gates"?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:11 pm

So, I was not in a productive mood, so I decided to see how much my home airport, PWM, has changed over the past few years. So I went to an internet archive, looked up PWM's website, and found this terminal diagram from June of 2007. http://web.archive.org/web/200706300...andjetport.org/inside-terminal.asp



If you look to the left of the baggage claim, you can make out two gates, Gate A and Gate B. I have never noticed these gates when I have traveled though the Jetport recently, and I can imagine they have been used in many years, as they do not require TSA security screening to access them. Does anyone have information on these gates (e.g. when they were last used, what airline/s)?

Thank you!
 
aloges
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RE: PWM Pre-Security "Gates"?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:24 pm

They look like bus and/or pedestrian arrival gates to me.
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USAirALB
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RE: PWM Pre-Security "Gates"?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:28 pm

If I had to guess, they were probably lower level commuter gates that were most likely used pre 9/11. I have never traveled through PWM nor am I from there so this is just a guess.

ALB currently also has lower level commuter gates, although they are post security and require and escalator to access them.
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sirnoble
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RE: PWM Pre-Security "Gates"?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:30 pm

Quoting aloges (Reply 1):

I suppose they could be, but they face airside. If they were used for that purpose, they would be on the north side of the terminal, where the curb is. Thanks for the input though!
 
sirnoble
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RE: PWM Pre-Security "Gates"?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:31 pm

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 2):

That sounds about right.
 
aloges
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RE: PWM Pre-Security "Gates"?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:46 pm

Quoting sirnoble (Reply 3):
I suppose they could be, but they face airside. If they were used for that purpose, they would be on the north side of the terminal, where the curb is. Thanks for the input though!

I think I may have lost something in translation: my guess was that these gates were used only for arriving passengers who were taken to the terminal by bus, or had to walk there from the aircraft. Sadly, my memory of PWM is quite foggy and the photo that I kept is of the far more aesthetic terminal extension.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
sirnoble
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RE: PWM Pre-Security "Gates"?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:55 pm

Quoting aloges (Reply 5):

I think I may need to reword my reply. My bad!

I meant to say that they couldn't be used for the purpose of buses or pedestrians because they are located on the south side of the terminal. People enter the terminal from the north, and the gates face south. Also, this image is pre-expansion.

Hope this clears things up!
 
flyPWM
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RE: PWM Pre-Security "Gates"?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:15 pm

I believe those are some of the old ground level aircraft gates that were around prior to 2-3 expansions ago. I flew out of PWM in May, they did a beautiful job on the most recent expansion. Doesn't even feel like the jetport.
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: PWM Pre-Security "Gates"?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:18 pm

The new expansion is awesome. It is a shame it connects with that dumpy 1970s terminal.

Perhaps when there is more money they will upgrade the rest a bit
 
sirnoble
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RE: PWM Pre-Security "Gates"?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:37 pm

Quoting flyPWM (Reply 7):

That would make sense. Thank you!

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 8):

The older part is improving slowly. The main reason for this expansion was size, as opposed to quality. However, it could be upgraded to a certain extent.
 
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knope2001
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RE: PWM Pre-Security "Gates"?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:31 pm

MIght those gates have been from back in the days for the smallest commuter props which could operate without security screening? If a flight came in from a small airport without security screening, it could not arrive into the sterile area of the airport. Arriving at A or B would accomplish this. The departures from PWM could similarly leave from these non-sterile gates.

In years past, it was fairly common for the smallest cities not to have security screening, and when those flights arrived at a larger airport, they either had to arrive at separate non-sterile gates or terminal, or inbound passengers had to clear security screening as they entered the terminal. MSP, deep within the terminal, used to have a commuter gate with metal detector and bag x-ray equipment. As passengers deplaned and entered from the ramp, they had to clear security screening to get inside. I suspect that gates A and B at PWM were to handle unsecure arrivals by commuter aircraft.

This sort of things still exists in some places -- Seaport, for example, operates outside of the secure terminal in at least some places like MCI.
 
pwm2txlhopper
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RE: PWM Pre-Security "Gates"?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:00 pm

Those were gates used for boarding computer flights at one point. The last time I remember them in use was in 1993, but remember them in use when I was a kid during the 1980s. I can remember Bar Harbor/ Easter ExPress flights using them, and later Business Express and NW airlink.
 
pwm2txlhopper
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RE: PWM Pre-Security "Gates"?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:42 pm

Quoting sirnoble (Reply 6):
/
I believe those are some of the old ground level aircraft gates that were around prior to 2-3 expansions ago. I flew out of PWM in May, they did a beautiful job on the most recent expansion. Doesn't even feel like the jetport.


Correct. Those were the old ramp gates from PWM prior to the 1980 terminal expansion where jetways were added to what was then the new terminal expansion.
 
skywaymanaz
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RE: PWM Pre-Security "Gates"?

Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:14 pm

CID used to have pre security gates too. A gates were non secure ground commuter gates. B gates were secure ground commuter gates. I only see C gates in use there now when I go thru, the secure jetway gates. I remember seeing screening equipment in STL on the D concourse the screen passengers arriving there from TWExpress flights. I know before 9/11 if a plane carried 19 people or less it did not require security screening. I think there are still some US flights that don't require screening but I believe the passenger limit is lower then 19 now.
 
aloges
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RE: PWM Pre-Security "Gates"?

Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:03 pm

Thanks to everyone for clearing this up, an unexpected little bit of aviation history! The idea of passenger flights that don't need screening didn't even cross my mind... I'm not sure we've had any of those in Europe in my lifetime.

Quoting skywaymanaz (Reply 13):
I think there are still some US flights that don't require screening but I believe the passenger limit is lower then 19 now.

SeaPort Airlines is one such example, several of their destinations require no screening. They fly PC-12s and Cessna Caravans.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
harleydriver
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RE: PWM Pre-Security "Gates"?

Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:54 pm

Quoting pwm2txlhopper (Reply 11):
Those were gates used for boarding computer flights at one point. The last time I remember them in use was in 1993, but remember them in use when I was a kid during the 1980s. I can remember Bar Harbor/ Easter ExPress flights using them, and later Business Express and NW airlink.


I remember those days, I worked for Bar Harbor in BGR and would occasional drive to PWM to non-rev if I couldn't get a flight from BGR. My last flight out of PWM was in the early '90s so it's been a while but I do remember mainline gates for UA, DL and NW in addition to the two gates on the lower level. It was before the days of screening for commuter flights and we would arrive in BOS in a non-secure area then transfer through screening if I was catching a mainline flight.

Thanks for bringing back some memories, I haven't thought of that for a VERY long time!
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pwm2txlhopper
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RE: PWM Pre-Security "Gates"?

Tue Jan 01, 2013 9:30 pm

Here are some old photos from PWM from before the first terminal expansion in 1980. The gates in question would have been located to the far right corner of the building where the nose of the DC-8 is pointed

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/77929_424399657624466_1227304695_o.jpg


http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/476747_345465792184520_1660977042_o.jpg

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/414160_347638155300617_449823623_o.jpg

Old terminal. Now the GA FBO




Taken 1962 on ramp where present day terminal sits.

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/706129_449432965121135_471827016_o.jpg
 
pwm2txlhopper
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RE: PWM Pre-Security "Gates"?

Tue Jan 01, 2013 9:47 pm

Quoting harleydriver (Reply 15):

At that time there was no mainline NW. Not until 1999. There were gates for maineline UA, DL, CO, and US circa late 80's/early 1990's.
 
chrisair
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RE: PWM Pre-Security "Gates"?

Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:46 pm

ABQ still has pre security gates. New Mexico Airlines uses them for their Caravan flights around the state.
 
sirnoble
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RE: PWM Pre-Security "Gates"?

Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:27 pm

Quoting pwm2txlhopper (Reply 16):

Those are awesome photos. Really shows how PWM has changed. Thanks for the feedback!

Quoting harleydriver (Reply 15):

You're welcome!

Quoting skywaymanaz (Reply 13):

I'm surprised that I didn't know that. Thanks!
 
KPWMSpotter
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RE: PWM Pre-Security "Gates"?

Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:24 am

Those ground level gates still existed up until 2008, when they built the landside Shipyard Brewing restaurant in its place.

I don't think the gates were used for boarding flights post-2001, but I do think that BusinessExpress used the ground level gates for commuter flights in the '90s. The doorways to the ramp still exist behind the Shipyard restaurant (I think), but they don't lead anywhere because the fixed RJ gate (gate 1 now) is in the way. Before the 2011 expansion opened, the RJ gate was still titled as gate 2, and gate 1 signage existed landside at the old ground level gates.

PWM is made up of four distinct sections these days. The original '70s jet terminal (as pictured above) was quite small. The 70s terminal still exists and makes up the area between baggage claim and approximately the current AirTran ticket counter (including the ground level gates). The '80s terminal expansion extended the airport To the west, to the current gate 10. In 2004 the terminal was expanded to the East, adding the current baggage claim, and finally the most recent addition was made in 2011 at the west side of the airport. If you look at the airport on Google Maps you can see the distinct outlines of each phase of the terminal's expansion.

pwm2txl, thanks for posting those photos! Is that an Eastern DC-8 in the first one? One correction though; the old brick terminal isn't the GA FBO anymore, the Northeast FBO is in the standalone hangar just to the South. The old terminal now houses the Maine Aviation flight school as well as the Civil Air Patrol wing.
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flyer62
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RE: PWM Pre-Security "Gates"?

Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:27 am

I remember most of all this, Pwm is my home airport.grew up going there and flying out of there,alot sure has changed,I remember the Northeast yellow bird,DC-9 and 727s,Bar harbor and Air new england,and did see the DC-8s 707s and 720s also convair 880s and 990s,but never got to see the Eastern DC-8-21,wish i had,Pwm looks awesome now!
 
pwm2txlhopper
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RE: PWM Pre-Security "Gates"?

Wed Jan 02, 2013 7:42 pm

Flyer62,

Who ever flew 707s and Convairs to PWM? Must have been charters only? And with few passengers and cargo, because back in those days the runway was less than 6, 000 feet. Kind of short for early large passenger jets.

I wasn't born until 1980, but I grew up flying out of PWM. I thought I knew the history of the airport pretty well, but until I found the photos above, I never thought any 707s or DC-8s ever came through. However, you can confirm you saw them?

You're right, things have changed! Prior to the late 1980s, we had only DL, UA, PeopleExpress and regionals like Bar Harbor and Valley. US came around 1988. From there, things really took off! Many of my earliest memories involve flying DL 727s out PWM. Those trips triggered my love of all things aviation.
 
FI642
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RE: PWM Pre-Security "Gates"?

Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:17 pm

Those old pictures are amazing!

I miss the classic jets!
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Maverick623
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RE: PWM Pre-Security "Gates"?

Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:46 pm

Quoting skywaymanaz (Reply 13):
I think there are still some US flights that don't require screening but I believe the passenger limit is lower then 19 now.

I believe the limit actually sits at 50 seats or less for scheduled airline operations.
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sirnoble
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RE: PWM Pre-Security "Gates"?

Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:41 pm

Quoting KPWMSpotter (Reply 20):

Thanks for that information! They added the RJ gates when Independence took over UA's gate 10, right?
 
Yflyer
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RE: PWM Pre-Security "Gates"?

Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:20 pm

ANC has a couple of pre-security gates as well, and from what I observed in August 2011 they're quite heavily used. The airport resturant has a nice view of these gates, and during my dinner I observed numerous Penair Saab 340s and Era Dash-8s and B1900s, among others, arrive and unload/load passengers at those gates. I imagine many small Alaskan communities lack security screening at their airports.

Quoting skywaymanaz (Reply 13):
I think there are still some US flights that don't require screening but I believe the passenger limit is lower then 19 now.

Like I mentioned above, I saw planes as large as Saab 340s using the unsecure gates at ANC, so either the limit is more than 19, or Alaska has some sort of exemption.
 
sirnoble
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RE: PWM Pre-Security "Gates"?

Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:43 am

Quoting Yflyer (Reply 26):

That's interesting. I'm surprised to hear that!
 
PWMRamper
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RE: PWM Pre-Security "Gates"?

Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:29 am

Quoting sirnoble (Reply 25):

That's correct, and they're still there.

That old picture of PWM is astounding, haha. Never realized it looked quite like that.

I so miss working/living there. I love PWM, and the expansion is truly beautiful.
 
ikramerica
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RE: PWM Pre-Security "Gates"?

Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:44 am

SRQ has them, A gates, but I don't think they are in use any more. HNL had/has some. And of course ANC has them plus the entire seaplane airport next door w no security screening.
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flymia
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RE: PWM Pre-Security "Gates"?

Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:02 am

While talking aboutre-security gates does FLL still have them? I remember using the commuter terminal at FLL flying from FLL to PID on Chalks.

As others have stated there are still some commuter flights which do not have any security. There is such a small security threat for 4, 6, 12 seats etc.. Aircraft that there is just really no reason to have security and it makes it much easier for the very small towns and airports.
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ghYHZ
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RE: PWM Pre-Security "Gates"?

Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:46 am

Do the Twin Cities Air flights to YQI (a Cessna 402) use the main terminal or an FBO? The flights arriving at PWM would require customs.
 
pwm2txlhopper
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RE: PWM Pre-Security "Gates"?

Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:39 pm

ghYHZ,

No. They use to use the GA FBO. I'm not sure which one though? The plane usually arrived on the secondary runway and then taxied over to the hangars by the cargo area. I don't know if passengers get off there, or, if the plane just taxied over to clear customs?

Twin Cities ended service Dec 31st. by the way.

http://www.thevanguard.ca/News/2012-...9/Twin-Cities-Air-ending-service/1


Just within the last two years there was also another start up flying the Piper Navaho from PWM to PQI and BGR. They used the ga FBO, as did short lived Starlink Air flights to YHZ on the J-31. Twin Cities started when Starlink pulled out.

The only small airlines operating GA type aircraft out of the main terminal, at least That I remember, we're Bar Harbor and Valley Airlines. Both in the 1980's. Around 1994-95, a small carrier calling itself Pine State Airlines tried service between PWM-AUG-BGR-PQI-FVE using a Cessna 402C. it didn't last long, but they use to board on gates A and B, the topic of this thread.

Not sure if Air New England use to board out of the main terminal in the 70s, as I'm too young, but they might have?

[Edited 2013-01-03 09:46:38]
 
blink182
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RE: PWM Pre-Security "Gates"?

Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:56 pm

Quoting KPWMSpotter (Reply 20):
The 70s terminal still exists and makes up the area between baggage claim and approximately the current AirTran ticket counter (including the ground level gates). The '80s terminal expansion extended the airport To the west, to the current gate 10.

Was the 70s era terminal a split level? Trying to figure out how ticketing and baggage would fit in there; that space is not big at all. The '80s terminal expansion, IMO, was incredibly well done. I had always guessed that was done in the 90s since the airside gets so much light and feels extremely spacious.

I unfortunately haven't seen the newest terminal expansion, only the construction, but I hear great things. Does the newest addition have additional baggage carousels?
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pwm2txlhopper
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RE: PWM Pre-Security "Gates"?

Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:25 pm

blink182,

Yes, the original present day passenger terminal was built in 1970s. It's the terminal shown in the photos above. ( Prior to that time, the passenger terminal was in the present day FBO. Also shown in an above photo. *The brick building with control tower.) All terminal expansions since then have been added onto this original building.

The baggage claim was in the far left end of this 1970s building and it remains there today, although renovated with the last eight years. Check in and ticketing desks were on the lower level where they remained until last year. An escalator took passengers upsairs to go through security to the gates. There was also a small gift shop, an arcade, restaurant /bar, and a waiting/viewing area in the corner of what is now the area immediate to gate 3. I spent many hours there with my scanner as a teen watching planes as my parents shopped at the nearby mall.

Prior to 9/11 there was next to no baggage sscreening. Your bag was tagged and put out onto the belt behind the ticket desk, and away it went to the back rooms resembling garages behind the counter. There it was loaded onto carts and taken out to the planes.

Around 1984, the third expansion extended the terminal west. For those familiar with the terminal prior to the newest extension, this extension started at where the old Delta check in desk was. (Prior to the 1984 extension,there was just a wall there to the right of the desk .) at this time 2 or 3 jetways were added. The next significant expansion occurred in 1996. Two more gates were added to the west corner of the terminal. These became US gates. A small customs processing area was also constructed in terminal at this end of the building.

Little else happened as far as expansion until the most recent addition. However, in 2004 the main runway was extended, repaved and had in pavement centerline lighting installed. Also, the ILS system was upgrade to CAT II from CAT 1.


In this photo taken about a decade ago, if you compare it to the 1970s one above, you can clearly see the 1980s and 1990s expansions. The roof is dirtier on the older part of the building.

http://www.donjohnsonphoto.com/PWM102798.jpg



[Edited 2013-01-03 11:11:23]
 
pwm2txlhopper
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RE: PWM Pre-Security "Gates"?

Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:59 pm

PWM terminal with newest expansion


View Larger Map


View Larger Map

[Edited 2013-01-03 12:02:12]

[Edited 2013-01-03 12:03:53]
 
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chrisnh
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RE: PWM Pre-Security "Gates"?

Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:28 am

I noticed that here on airliners.net...the photos section...you are just given the option to search 'Maine.' Before, you could choose Portland or Bangor or 'other.'

I remember the days when DL ran 757s between Portland and Boston. Overpowered as they ordinarily are, those 757s leaped off the runway because they were so light of pax & fuel.
 
PWMRamper
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RE: PWM Pre-Security "Gates"?

Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:09 am

Since this seems to have become a PWM thread, here's a few pictures of the new expansion:

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/545801_4236980766505_398753944_n.jpg

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/424059_3624941705911_153023892_n.jpg

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/69183_4923544290164_1006475300_n.jpg
 
sirnoble
Topic Author
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RE: PWM Pre-Security "Gates"?

Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:39 pm

Quoting PWMRamper (Reply 37):

Nice pictures! I flew B6 out of the jetport over the summer to go to Florida. They did such an impressive job. It feels like you're in another airport until you go into the older terminal.
 
phatfarmlines
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RE: PWM Pre-Security "Gates"?

Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:01 pm

PIE Has a few non-secure gates, gate 14 in baggage claim, and formerly gate 1 would have been south of ticketing area A. I'm not sure the purpose of these gates, especially gate 14 as the baggage claim area was built in 2000.

http://www.fly2pie.com/about/terminal_map_large.html
 
sirnoble
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RE: PWM Pre-Security "Gates"?

Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:34 pm

Quoting phatfarmlines (Reply 39):

That's peculiar. Are there remanants of the gates?
 
aloges
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RE: PWM Pre-Security "Gates"?

Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:16 pm

Quoting PWMRamper (Reply 37):
Since this seems to have become a PWM thread, here's a few pictures of the new expansion:

excellent idea


from the access road


just beautiful


tons of space
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
sirnoble
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RE: PWM Pre-Security "Gates"?

Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:49 pm

I took these photos when they had an open house for the new terminal on 10/1/11. It looks a lot different now, as there are actual passengers going through it. But it gives you a basic idea.




One of the new gates. This belongs to DL and DL Connection.



These are the stairs coming down from security into the airside concourse. There is now a Burger King and Linda Bean's behind this.

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