2008matt
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What Happened To Ryanair Atlantic?

Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:47 pm

I was wondering what ever happened to the project of Ryanair Atlantic a few years back. I know that at the time they thought that their was not suitable aircraft but surely with the new 787, they would be enabled to do so. I would have liked to have seen whether their plans would have been successful in reality.
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Pe@rson
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RE: What Happened To Ryanair Atlantic?

Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:57 pm

Quoting 2008matt (Thread starter):
I was wondering what ever happened to the project of Ryanair Atlantic a few years back

It was only ever a proposal or 'we will be analysing the possibility' anyway. And they very clearly said that if it did materialise it wouldn't be called Ryanair such-and-such but instead be a separate company.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
2008matt
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RE: What Happened To Ryanair Atlantic?

Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:59 pm

Is there any possibility of it still materialising though? Given the success in recent years with short haul
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flylonghaul
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RE: What Happened To Ryanair Atlantic?

Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:17 pm

It will be interesting to see what the setup is if this does ever materialize.
If it was just Ryanair in its current form with a fancy new name then no thank you.  
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2008matt
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RE: What Happened To Ryanair Atlantic?

Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:21 pm

I agree with that but there is no argument when saying, yes it isn't everyone's favourite way to travel, but it sells none the less.
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brilondon
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RE: What Happened To Ryanair Atlantic?

Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:36 pm

I believe that when people fly internationally they expect a certain amount of service. There have been airlines who offered no frills type of operation but they have fallen flat on their butts. Laker Airways, People Express, Nationair to name the ones that I can come up with at this time. Full service airlines seem to have the mix of low cost through to First Class all travelling on the same airplane. It may not seem to be as profitable, but it seems to work for the legacies.
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flylonghaul
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RE: What Happened To Ryanair Atlantic?

Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:43 pm



Quoting 2008matt (Reply 4):
I agree with that but there is no argument when saying, yes it isn't everyone's favourite way to travel, but it sells none the less.

Indeed. There is no question the airline continues to be successful. I won't fly FR but there are clearly millions of others that will.

I would be interested to see what effect the extra competition would have on TA prices.

[Edited 2013-01-01 06:45:13]
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irshava
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RE: What Happened To Ryanair Atlantic?

Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:09 pm

From what I recall - the airline was supposed to use 747s (years ago) and even if they did want to start long-haul ops with the 787 there is no way that Boeing would let those birds go at the price Ryanair would offer them.
“If you were born without wings, do nothing to prevent them from growing.”
 
2008matt
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RE: What Happened To Ryanair Atlantic?

Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:14 pm

Quoting irshava (Reply 7):

Not at the present time no, but what about in 4/5 years time? And surely they could receive significant discounts for a large order - if so, how large do you think that could be? 50+?
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B747forever
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RE: What Happened To Ryanair Atlantic?

Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:19 pm

I am sure all LCC with long haul plans will watch DY closely when they start to fly ARN/OSL to JFK/BKK in May/June.
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2008matt
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RE: What Happened To Ryanair Atlantic?

Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:39 pm

Quoting B747forever (Reply 9):

I presume that is using their new 787's? Do you think, if successful, Ryanair will be quickly onto the scene with a similar but more aggressive product?
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LondonCity
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RE: What Happened To Ryanair Atlantic?

Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:51 pm

Quoting 2008matt (Reply 10):
I presume that is using their new 787's?

Correct. Norwegian will be offering a two-class product with low fares in Y and its version of "business class" which is more like a Y+ product.


http://www.businesstraveller.com/news/norwegian-unveils-b787-details


Staffing costs are also being reduced for DY's long-haul 787 services because the carrier is insisting all cabin crew are located in Thailand. In Norwegian language:

http://e24.no/jobb/bangkok-blir-base...gians-langdistansesatsing/20257865
 
2008matt
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RE: What Happened To Ryanair Atlantic?

Tue Jan 01, 2013 5:12 pm

Will be interesting to see how that pans out, and if successful, the potential similar products that the likes of FR could propose to compete.
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2008matt
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RE: What Happened To Ryanair Atlantic?

Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:34 pm

Is there any other aircraft that they could potentially use?
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janbrubel
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RE: What Happened To Ryanair Atlantic?

Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:04 am

I guess too much of the LLC model can't be transferred to 5hrs + flights.
 
IL96M
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RE: What Happened To Ryanair Atlantic?

Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:26 am

Sun Country Airlines flew transatlantic with ETOPS-certified 737-800s (2-class configuration). Couldn't Ryanair have some of theirs certified to ETOPS and do the same...?
 
irshava
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RE: What Happened To Ryanair Atlantic?

Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:17 am

Quoting 2008matt (Reply 8):
Not at the present time no, but what about in 4/5 years time? And surely they could receive significant discounts for a large order - if so, how large do you think that could be? 50+?

Personally, I think that Ryanair is observing how the whole Norwegian Long-Haul operation will turn out... if it works out well for them MOL will no doubt want a piece of the action and well - they have 300+ 737s I would assume a decent number would also apply to their possible long-haul fleet.
“If you were born without wings, do nothing to prevent them from growing.”
 
YVRLTN
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RE: What Happened To Ryanair Atlantic?

Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:51 am

I dont think such an airline would be any worse than TS for example in terms of cabin comfort. I "generally" find that TS (Canadian Affair) are abour $6-800 cheaper than AC on YVR-LON but the on board service in Y is similar and baggage allowance is fine, which makes the narrow seat worthwhile to save that sort of coin for me to then spend in Europe.

If I was saving a further $2-300 per ticket, I would not have any issue paying for a suitcase and a couple of meals. But if the base fares were similar to TS or worked out more by the time you had been nickel and dimed, I wouldnt bother. So FR would have to consider carefully what service level they will offer and how they price it.

Then theres the practical side, hopefully many would pre-purchase meals online when booking, but there are still going to be dozens of credit card transactions per meal service, which will take forever to complete and check in will be a zoo...

The US market though is very different to Canada as they dont really have a TS type of competitor and I think they would do fantastically by offering a TS type of service, so not true FR.

I also think the A333 will be just an ideal a bird as the 787 for east coast & central routes.
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irshava
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RE: What Happened To Ryanair Atlantic?

Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:11 am

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 17):
I also think the A333 will be just an ideal a bird as the 787 for east coast & central routes.

Actually, there is an app on the Norwegian website that compares the two aircraft in a interactive way and it shows that the 787 burns a lot less fuel.

http://www.norwegian.com/longdistancerevolution/
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2008matt
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RE: What Happened To Ryanair Atlantic?

Wed Jan 02, 2013 7:45 am

Quoting IL96M (Reply 15):

The 737-800 really is not big enough to charge the low fares that FR would be looking for. Does anyone know if Norwegian will put a 787 on a route to LHR?
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Jambost
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RE: What Happened To Ryanair Atlantic?

Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:22 pm

Maybe MOL's new clone to run Ryan Atlantic has encountered some setbacks? Other than himself who would MOL want to take charge of this project?

Quoting irshava (Reply 16):
Personally, I think that Ryanair is observing how the whole Norwegian Long-Haul operation will turn out

In my opinion I completely agree, combined with their failure [so far] to acquire EI, there is no immediate rush into uncertain markets.
DY has perfectly timed their venture acting as a guinea pig experiment for FR.

If DY succeed, FR would follow behind them with their new 2/3 class airline,

If DY fail, FR could acquire cheap sourced aircraft and enter the most demanding markets that DY revealed, or just scrap the entire idea.
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Someone83
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RE: What Happened To Ryanair Atlantic?

Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:40 pm

Quoting 2008matt (Reply 19):
Does anyone know if Norwegian will put a 787 on a route to LHR?

Do you mean LGW? DY is building up a base at LGW and plan to open several routes from LGW to non-Nordic destinations in 2013. Can't remember where, but it was to Spain, France etc. They will also base a couple of 737s at LGW.

So far no 787 routes have been announced there, as only the routes for the first two aircrafts has been announced. OSL/ARN-BKK and OSL/ARN-JFK. But I would not be surprised if they show up with longhaul from LGW at one point, if they succeed
 
Kiwirob
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RE: What Happened To Ryanair Atlantic?

Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:50 pm

Quoting LondonCity (Reply 11):
Staffing costs are also being reduced for DY's long-haul 787 services because the carrier is insisting all cabin crew are located in Thailand. In Norwegian language:

This I'm sure will bite them in the butt, I would expect that a lot of passangers expecting to get Scandinavian speaking crew will be upset when they get Thai crew speaking broken English.
 
g2scandinavia
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RE: What Happened To Ryanair Atlantic?

Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:18 pm

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 22):
This I'm sure will bite them in the butt, I would expect that a lot of passangers expecting to get Scandinavian speaking crew will be upset when they get Thai crew speaking broken English.

They will hand out tissues to their passengers so they can wipe their disappointed tears away.
For the rest of travelers, they will just continue reading the in-flight magazine with the title "We don't give a f....."
 
rutankrd
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RE: What Happened To Ryanair Atlantic?

Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:27 pm

Quoting 2008matt (Reply 19):
The 737-800 really is not big enough to charge the low fares that FR would be looking for. Does anyone know if Norwegian will put a 787 on a route to LHR?

Norwegian air shuttle may bring the 788 into the UK market however it will be at Gatwick and its far more likely to go East (Thailand) than west.

Fact is over the North Atlantic history is NOT on the side of direct sales and exclusively low fare type operations.

The only way to operate a subsidised fares structure is via packaging with car hire/rooms and other margin products, such as the way Canadian Vacations/Air Transat and Virgin Holidays/Beach fleet operations work.
Oh and selling cargo space.

Otherwise the numbers just don't add up now and never have

Even Laker knew that those many years ago. and a significant portion of the Skytrain capacity was allocated to Arrowsmith packages.
Shortly before folding Laker also introduces very flexible fares (They were significant more than $99.00 each way - Much closer to $399.00 in many cases!)

With something close to thirty flights a day each way London- New York alone multiple operations to other major US cities and countless services to secondary markets in both the US and UK regions there are plenty of very competitive "Y" seats already.
 
ushermittwoch
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RE: What Happened To Ryanair Atlantic?

Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:10 pm

Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 23):
They will hand out tissues to their passengers so they can wipe their disappointed tears away.
For the rest of travelers, they will just continue reading the in-flight magazine with the title "We don't give a f....."

LOL. So you are claiming that DY's service is worse than SK's?
That's really quite funny.
Where have all the tri-jets gone...
 
bbiter
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RE: What Happened To Ryanair Atlantic?

Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:34 pm

Quoting ushermittwoch (Reply 25):
DY's service is worse than SK's?

As a frequent flyer in Norway and Europe, I can confirm that this is the case. Not only is DY's service poor, I find their F/A's rude as well. And fares are not that much different when you start adding up all the extras that at least I need.

On the other hand, I find the SK long-haul product quite inadequate compared to for example LH (to the US).
 
ushermittwoch
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RE: What Happened To Ryanair Atlantic?

Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:34 pm

Interesting. I found their service levels to be quite similar.
Typical LCC service within Europe. Maybe the intra-Scandinavian flights on SK are superior in that regard. I have no experience with those.

Last time I flew SK longhaul, I quite enjoyed the experience, but that was also ten years ago. lol
Where have all the tri-jets gone...
 
g2scandinavia
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RE: What Happened To Ryanair Atlantic?

Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:36 pm

Quoting ushermittwoch (Reply 25):
Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 23):
They will hand out tissues to their passengers so they can wipe their disappointed tears away.
For the rest of travelers, they will just continue reading the in-flight magazine with the title "We don't give a f....."

LOL. So you are claiming that DY's service is worse than SK's?
That's really quite funny.

It was an ironic answer to the dooming predictions of DY's crew speaking English and not Norwegian.
How that is being read as a comparison between SK and DY you must explain 
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: What Happened To Ryanair Atlantic?

Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:47 am

Quoting 2008matt (Reply 13):
Is there any other aircraft that they could potentially use?

C-17?

Quoting brilondon (Reply 5):
There have been airlines who offered no frills type of operation but they have fallen flat on their butts. Laker Airways, People Express, Nationair to name the ones that I can come up with at this time.

...Air Asia X and the "stillborn" Bangkok Airways. To paraphrase O'Leary: I would rather crawl naked over broken glass that to fly Ryanair again... Nevertheless, Norwegian seems like a reasonable compromise which doesn't push the low-cost concept to the extreme the way FR does.
That being said, how much reduction in average fare are we talking about when it comes to TATL fares? Even from provincial backwater like PRG it is no problem to find a flight to NYC for +/- 450-500 EUR just couple weeks in advance and "all-inclusive" with the safety net of a legacy airline. I am sure the airline does not make too much money on such ticket, if any at all therefore my question is how low can the low costs realistically go given the inherent fixed costs and specifics (utilisation, turnarounds, time zone difference, etc.) of longhaul flights

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