Transpac787
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Outlook For UA 787's In 2013

Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:51 pm

In 2012, UA ended up getting all 6 of their initial 787 deliveries, where they had originally planned to get 5 in 2012 and the 6th would show up 1Q13.

So what's the outlook for 2013 for UA, in terms of delivery schedules?? Every article I can find online only lists delivery schedules for the "original 6", and I can't find anything for 2013 or beyond. Does anyone know how many 787's UA is planning to take delivery of this year?? Any idea on registration numbers?? Will they get any 787-9's in 2013??

As for routes, the only long-term / permanent routes planned so far are:

LAX-NRT
LAX-PVG
DEN-NRT
IAH-LOS

Any word on other future routes that will open with or switch to 787 service in 2013??
 
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Stitch
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RE: Outlook For UA 787's In 2013

Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:58 pm

Per All Things 787, LN117 and LN124 are the next two 787-8s assigned to UA and those will be delivered sometime in 2013 (Boeing is currently building up to LN98).
 
VCy
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RE: Outlook For UA 787's In 2013

Wed Jan 02, 2013 7:01 pm

Would be nice to finally see someone connecting LCA with the US. EWR-LCA would be good with a 787 but i dont see it becoming reality.
 
speedbird0125
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RE: Outlook For UA 787's In 2013

Wed Jan 02, 2013 7:01 pm

How about LAX-KIX, LAX-NGO, or SFO-NGO?
 
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Polot
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RE: Outlook For UA 787's In 2013

Wed Jan 02, 2013 7:05 pm

Quoting Transpac787 (Thread starter):
Will they get any 787-9's in 2013??

789 EIS is not until 2014, so no, UA won't be getting any this year.
 
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United787
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RE: Outlook For UA 787's In 2013

Wed Jan 02, 2013 7:09 pm

This has been discussed in:

United/Cont. Existing Fleet Upgrade Status 14 (by LipeGIG Dec 10 2012 in Civil Aviation)
 
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AVENSAB727
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RE: Outlook For UA 787's In 2013

Wed Jan 02, 2013 7:22 pm

IAH-SCL could be a good 787 new route.
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FI642
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RE: Outlook For UA 787's In 2013

Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:00 pm

Given the teething issues with the aircraft, they may wait to announce further routes.
While this has been discussed before, I would tend to believe that until completely
comfortable with the aircraft, markets will be limited.
737MAX, Cool Planes for the Worlds Coolest Airline.
 
AADC10
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RE: Outlook For UA 787's In 2013

Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:01 pm

Quoting Transpac787 (Thread starter):
As for routes, the only long-term / permanent routes planned so far are:

LAX-NRT
LAX-PVG
DEN-NRT
IAH-LOS

I think DEN-NRT will start and I do not know about IAH-LOS but the others may not all switch to 787 in March. Each of those routes need at least two aircraft to operate. A couple were delivered to UA at the end of the year to get Boeing's totals up, but there are currently only 6 and All things 787 lists only two more going into production so that by March they are likely to only have 8 so either they will have to be ready to sub a 772 or they will wait until more 787s are delivered. Considering that the outstations, other than NRT, may not have much experience with the 787, it is possible that LAX-PVG may not go to the 787 on time since neither end is a 787 maintenance base. At NRT UA can get some help from NH and IAH is the main UA 787 maintenance base. Until the kinks are worked out, I doubt UA will risk that level of utilization on the 787, particularly since they will need to add positioning flights to IAH for maintenance.

Quoting speedbird0125 (Reply 3):
How about LAX-KIX, LAX-NGO, or SFO-NGO?

I would not expect to see any of these. I would not be surprised if SFO-KIX is downguaged to a 787.
 
Transpac787
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RE: Outlook For UA 787's In 2013

Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:39 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):

Per All Things 787, LN117 and LN124 are the next two 787-8s assigned to UA and those will be delivered sometime in 2013 (Boeing is currently building up to LN98).

Good page, thanks. Do we have any idea what the registration numbers of the next few birds in the lineup will be?? Has UA reserved many/any for the 787 series??

Quoting speedbird0125 (Reply 3):
How about LAX-KIX, LAX-NGO, or SFO-NGO?

UA used to operate SFO-NGO - stopped flying it in 2008 or 2009. Would be nice to see it return.

Quoting United787 (Reply 5):

This has been discussed in:

United/Cont. Existing Fleet Upgrade Status 14

Not really, aside from the 1 or 2 sentences regarding the EIS for the sUA 788's.

Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 6):
IAH-SCL could be a good 787 new route.

I'm surprised it's not a market UA has considered yet, seeing how both DL and AA have a pretty solid market there.

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 8):
Each of those routes need at least two aircraft to operate.

Only if you wanted to operate them with 12 hours downtime. The NRT rotation works out pretty well.

The DEN-NRT aircraft turns out NRT-LAX and the LAX inbound turns out to DEN.

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 8):
they will need to add positioning flights to IAH for maintenance.

They already have them, both IAH-LAX and IAH-DEN are permanent on the schedules as the domestic tags for the NRT flights.
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: Outlook For UA 787's In 2013

Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:25 pm

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 8):
LAX-PVG may not go to the 787 on time since neither end is a 787 maintenance base

LAX cannot handle 787 maintenance? Isn't that where the last 4 were delivered and prepared for service? Seems that they might have some working knowledge (certainly more than DEN will), I assumed it was a maintenance base since they are doing the induction work.

I have no knowledge of the delivery schedule, but the original CO order was for 11 788s and 14 789s. There are 5 788s left to be delivered, so I think it's well within reason that all of these will come in 2013, with the 789s starting sometime in 2014.

What I'm more curious about is if the UA order for 25 frames, originally scheduled for 2016, will be moved up.
 
AADC10
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RE: Outlook For UA 787's In 2013

Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:47 pm

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 9):
Only if you wanted to operate them with 12 hours downtime. The NRT rotation works out pretty well.

The DEN-NRT aircraft turns out NRT-LAX and the LAX inbound turns out to DEN.

They will still need to reposition to IAH so they will still effectively need 2 aircraft to operate the route.

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 10):
LAX cannot handle 787 maintenance? Isn't that where the last 4 were delivered and prepared for service? Seems that they might have some working knowledge (certainly more than DEN will), I assumed it was a maintenance base since they are doing the induction work.

Routine work can be done at LAX but the main maintenance facility for the 787 is IAH. Until they get over the teething problems, I suspect that they 787s will spend quite a bit of time at IAH.
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: Outlook For UA 787's In 2013

Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:48 pm

Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 6):
IAH-SCL could be a good 787 new route.

IAH-SCL would be good, but I wonder if the 762 would be a better fit for it.
It is what it is...
 
ikramerica
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RE: Outlook For UA 787's In 2013

Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:55 pm

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 11):
Routine work can be done at LAX but the main maintenance facility for the 787 is IAH. Until they get over the teething problems, I suspect that they 787s will spend quite a bit of time at IAH.

And to build up hours, you will continue to see IAH-LAX flights, just as the 777 did before Gulf War 2. So you could see a routing including IAH-LAX-XXX on one flight number to a destination further than you can reach from IAH.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
Transpac787
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RE: Outlook For UA 787's In 2013

Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:12 pm

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 11):
Routine work can be done at LAX but the main maintenance facility for the 787 is IAH.

Yes, that would explain why the last four (4) deliveries have been PAE-LAX then, instead of PAE-IAH  

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 12):
IAH-SCL would be good, but I wonder if the 762 would be a better fit for it.

They're due to exit pretty soon, and the 787 would have a lower trip cost than 762 anyway, despite being significantly higher capacity.
 
FI642
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RE: Outlook For UA 787's In 2013

Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:00 am

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 14):
They're due to exit pretty soon, and the 787 would have a lower trip cost than 762 anyway, despite being significantly higher capacity.

Considerably less, not to mention a more comfortable ride.
737MAX, Cool Planes for the Worlds Coolest Airline.
 
AirframeAS
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RE: Outlook For UA 787's In 2013

Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:04 am

How many 787's are we due to pick up this year?
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LAXintl
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RE: Outlook For UA 787's In 2013

Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:32 am

Keep in mind the first 787 crew base is IAH, with LAX expected to follow shortly.

So much of the flying will be contingent and built around these crewing factors.

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 8):
I would not expect to see any of these. I would not be surprised if SFO-KIX is downguaged to a 787.

Its actually getting upgauged to the 744 in June 6th schedule change.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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STT757
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RE: Outlook For UA 787's In 2013

Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:45 am

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 8):
I think DEN-NRT will start and I do not know about IAH-LOS but the others may not all switch to 787 in March. Each of those routes need at least two aircraft to operate. A couple were delivered to UA at the end of the year to get Boeing's totals up, but there are currently only 6 and All things 787 lists only two more going into production so that by March they are likely to only have 8 so either they will have to be ready to sub a 772 or they will wait until more 787s are delivered. Considering that the outstations, other than NRT, may not have much experience with the 787, it is possible that LAX-PVG may not go to the 787 on time since neither end is a 787 maintenance base. At NRT UA can get some help from NH and IAH is the main UA 787 maintenance base. Until the kinks are worked out, I doubt UA will risk that level of utilization on the 787, particularly since they will need to add positioning flights to IAH for maintenance.

UA is indeed pushing some dates back to work with Boeing on reliability issues, however not all the dates are being pushed back and even the ones that are being pushed back only slightly;

LAX-NRT goes to 787 starting tomorrow, as scheduled
DEN-NRT on March 31 as scheduled
LAX-PVG starts on March 30 as scheduled
IAH-LOS was also to begin tomorrow with the 787 but instead will start at the end of the month
IAH-LHR will start March 1 instead of February 4
IAH-AMS will start February 24 instead of February 23

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...dule-on-reliability-issues-380631/
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flood
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RE: Outlook For UA 787's In 2013

Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:55 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 18):
LAX-NRT goes to 787 starting tomorrow, as scheduled

Looks like ship 902 will be operating the NRT flight.

I was wondering, however... 902 is being positioned IAH-LAX as UA6879 with a delay of 4+ hours (currently en route). Around 30min after 902's initially scheduled departure, UA took ship 906 IAH-LAX as UA6860 (shows a delay of 38m due to 'aircraft change'). That said, they'll have two 787s at LAX... is this merely a precautionary move or anyone know the reason behind this?

Well, make that three 787s... ship 904 will be there in the morning as well - albeit as a regular scheduled flight.

[Edited 2013-01-02 20:34:59]
 
speedbird0125
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RE: Outlook For UA 787's In 2013

Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:56 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 17):
Keep in mind the first 787 crew base is IAH, with LAX expected to follow shortly.

So much of the flying will be contingent and built around these crewing factors.

Do you know when 787 crews be based at LAX? It must be sCO crews who operate the 787 flights out of LAX following IAH base. What about DEN-NRT flight? Who is going to operate this flight? IAH crew? or is DEN also getting some crews for the DEN-NRT?
 
FlyDeltaJets
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RE: Outlook For UA 787's In 2013

Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:10 am

Quoting speedbird0125 (Reply 20):
It must be sCO crews who operate the 787 flights

All 787's are currently operated by sCO crews as it is a sCO airplane.
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fun2fly
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RE: Outlook For UA 787's In 2013

Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:07 pm

My vote is SFO>CAN. Similar to IAH>SCL, a long skinny route matching the purpose of the plane that fills out the route portfolio.

Interesting how the initial CO plans for EWR>BLR and EWR
 
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STT757
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RE: Outlook For UA 787's In 2013

Thu Jan 03, 2013 2:53 pm

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 22):
Interesting how the initial CO plans for EWR>BLR and EWR

UA should have five more by the end of the year, which would be all 11 of the sCO 787-8 orders. So we shall see what happens then, but my guess is they would continue the trend of swapping out the 787s for 777s on competitive routes (SEA-NRT, LAX-LHR etc..) and move those 777s to EWR or IAH. I think the 787-9s are where we shall see some growth to new destinations in India and elsewhere, they should arrive in 2014 which by then should be a time to start growing again for UA.

The sUA 787-8s start arriving in 2016, it would be great if that could be moved up, and hopefully they replace the 3 class 763s.
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masseybrown
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RE: Outlook For UA 787's In 2013

Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:09 pm

Quoting Transpac787 (Thread starter):
So what's the outlook for 2013 for UA, in terms of delivery schedules??

They (CO) used to project deliveries for the following year in the "Fleet Plan" updates. Now they do only one year at a time and the updates are less frequent, the last one in October. There should be a 2013 update around the first of Feb. or so, when the first web conference of the year is usually scheduled.
 
SonomaFlyer
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RE: Outlook For UA 787's In 2013

Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:45 pm

Don't expect much in the way of expansion beyond the routes currently announced until two things happen:

1. Boeing and the subs get their issues sorted out with these electrical issues (this includes UA getting up to speed in how to troubleshoot and repair these issues on their own);
2. UA obtains more than 11 787s. There is an assumption that the other five frames will be delivered this year, we'll see if that in fact occurs.

It appears UA is playing catch up in familiarizing itself with the a/c. From an outside observer, it does not appear UA devoted the resources to this project as was done by NH or possible JL. IF that is correct, UA failed to learn the painful lessons of last year where they had to pull back a/c on the UA side to try to address nagging maintenance issues.
 
hereandthere41
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RE: Outlook For UA 787's In 2013

Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:57 pm

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 16):

Only two are coming in 2013.

Quoting speedbird0125 (Reply 20):

On the f/a side, IAH crews will be routed IAH-NRT (772), NRT-LAX-NRT (788), NRT-IAH (772)
No word yet on who flies DEN-NRT. I'm assuming IAH or EWR. The new sub-CO f/a bases in LAX, SFO, ORD, DEN and IAD are slated to remain domestic flying for the moment.
 
AirframeAS
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RE: Outlook For UA 787's In 2013

Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:05 pm

Quoting hereandthere41 (Reply 26):

So, at the end of 2013, we should have a total of 8 airframes. I was hoping for more like 15.
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hOMSaR
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RE: Outlook For UA 787's In 2013

Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:05 pm

Since the 787 has the same type rating as the 777, does UA use the same pilots for both, or does the 787 have its own separate pilot group?
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fun2fly
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RE: Outlook For UA 787's In 2013

Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:47 pm

Quoting hereandthere41 (Reply 26):
Only two are coming in 2013.

It was supposed to be 6 in 2012 and 5 in 2013. So, Boeing is short 3 units for 2013? That's news. And it changes new route plan speculation for 2013.

It is probably safe to assume all TATL 2013 routes are done so any new ones would be fall routes lending itself to India, S. America, etc. under the follow the sun rule.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Outlook For UA 787's In 2013

Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:55 pm

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 29):
It was supposed to be 6 in 2012 and 5 in 2013. So, Boeing is short 3 units for 2013?

Boeing looks to be on production track, so if UA is not taking as many planes as they had planned, perhaps it is UA that is deferring deliveries?
 
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STT757
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RE: Outlook For UA 787's In 2013

Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:43 pm

Quoting hereandthere41 (Reply 26):

Only two are coming in 2013.

Where is this information coming from?
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hereandthere41
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RE: Outlook For UA 787's In 2013

Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:10 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 31):

One of numerous places it was posted was United Daily on January 2, 2013 under "What you can expect in 2013".

We are taking 24 737-900s and 2 787s for 2013.
 
AirframeAS
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RE: Outlook For UA 787's In 2013

Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:17 am

Quoting hereandthere41 (Reply 32):

Keep in mind, that's subject to change. I have a feeling we will take delivery more than just two Dream)liners this year.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
fun2fly
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RE: Outlook For UA 787's In 2013

Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:12 pm

Quoting hereandthere41 (Reply 32):
One of numerous places it was posted was United Daily on January 2, 2013 under "What you can expect in 2013".

We are taking 24 737-900s and 2 787s for 2013.

That's a good source! Makes you wonder why the other 3 are not happening in 2013. Perhaps a conversion to 789?

So, assuming the first 6 are spoken for and depending on lenght of route and reliability, 1 TPAC or 2 TATL routes that could happen in 2H2013 w/the 788.
 
VC10er
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RE: Outlook For UA 787's In 2013

Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:39 am

Of all the talk about destinations for the 6 to 11 787's, has Sao Paulo ever been a good bet?
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amirs
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RE: Outlook For UA 787's In 2013

Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:57 am

any chance for

ORD/SFO - TLV?

easily can fill daily 788 service!