LAXintl
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Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US

Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:28 pm

Skymark Airlines today applied with the DOT for authority to offer scheduled service between between Japan and New York.

Skymark states is desires to introduce service between Tokyo Narita and New York JFK utilizing A380 aircraft during the second half of 2014.

Skymarks advises it request this relative early authorization for it to commence advance marketing and sales activities to position itself for the introduction of the planned low-cost service.

Additionally Skymark also states it is reviewing the opportunity for introduction of other US scheduled markets using its on order fleet of A330 and A380 aircraft and would apply for those separately.


Proposed schedule:

NRT-JFK 1030-1000
JFK-NRT 1200-1430+1


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MesaFlyGuy
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RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US

Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:33 pm

Interesting, I still never understood why Skymark ordered the a380. They seem like too small of an airline to warrant such a big plane. But, I guess if you tap into the right market, which JFK-TYO is probably a big-enough market for them, they can make some money.
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RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US

Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:40 pm

Isn't Skymark planning to configure the A380 pretty much to the maximum capacity, i.e. 800+ seats? Can there be that much LCC demand for TYO-NYC?
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RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US

Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:46 pm

I'm sure there is demand if they price it appropriately.
 
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RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US

Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:55 pm

Quoting Wingtips56 (Reply 2):
ure the A380 pretty much to the maximum capacity, i.e. 800+ seats? Can there be that much LCC demand for TYO-NYC?

IIRC, Skymark will operate the A380 with around 400 seats. I think you mean Air Austral. They have chosen to equip their birds with 800 seats.
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RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US

Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:56 pm

Quoting Wingtips56 (Reply 2):
Isn't Skymark planning to configure the A380 pretty much to the maximum capacity, i.e. 800+ seats? Can there be that much LCC demand for TYO-NYC?

nope, 394 http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-1...ernational-expansion-update1-.html
 
LAXintl
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RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US

Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:04 pm

Actually they have not decided on the capacity configuration -

Their application specifically states --
"The final seating configuration of each A380 in Skymark's fleet has not been determined. Skymark anticipates making a decision on the configuration by mid 2013."

If they are indeed pursuing a lower cost model for these flights, I would think they would have a relative dense configuration.


Also regarding the market - NYC-TYO has about 500,000 local annual O&D travelers.
Yes its a declining market (like much of US-Japan), but for the right price I am sure they should be able to stimulate demand.
With a cheap enough price NYC can be a wonderful shopping, or weekend trip for the Japanese, especially the younger crowd which would be more open to a LCC concept.
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RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US

Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:15 pm

Quoting keuleatr72 (Reply 4):
I think you mean Air Austral. They have chosen to equip their birds with 800 seats.

I doubt Air Austral will ever take the a380. They couldn't take their last 772LR that went to Iraq instead.
 
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RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US

Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:37 pm

So basically they're going with NRT-JFK instead of NRT-LAX because Tokyo-L.A is saturated, but is not like NRT-JFK is under served either

well good luck to them
 
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RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US

Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:54 pm

So with 10 A330s and 6 A380s on the way, what are the other markets do we think Skymark is looking at in the US?

I would think if they are indeed following a more LCC concept that HNL could be natural fit, using an A380 even.

Also something to West Coast either using the 330 or 380 would be a natural market from Japan.

Considering lack of tie-ins with other carriers or domestic feed at NRT, Skymark would need to focus and tap in to existing large markets for its long-haul aspirations.
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RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US

Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:59 pm

Quoting keuleatr72 (Reply 4):
IIRC, Skymark will operate the A380 with around 400 seats. I think you mean Air Austral. They have chosen to equip their birds with 800 seats.

OK. Thanks.
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RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US

Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:06 pm

Quoting keuleatr72 (Reply 4):
IIRC, Skymark will operate the A380 with around 400 seats. I think you mean Air Austral. They have chosen to equip their birds with 800 seats.

As LAXIntl said, if Skymark is going for the mass market budget traveler, they're going to have to configure the plane with way more than 400 seats. If AF can fit 516 seats on their A380, I would think Skymark would be able to put at least 550 if not 600+...

NYC-Tokyo seems like a tough market to break into for an airline that has little to no brand awareness in the US, and several entrenched competitors already serving it.
 
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RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US

Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:19 pm

Quoting keuleatr72 (Reply 4):
IIRC, Skymark will operate the A380 with around 400 seats.

Their original suggested configuration was 114 Business Class and 280 Economy.
 
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RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US

Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:09 am

Call them Tokyo Tower Air.

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RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US

Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:12 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9):
So with 10 A330s and 6 A380s on the way, what are the other markets do we think Skymark is looking at in the US?

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spinkid
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RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US

Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:17 am

They will have to offer pretty low fares to make this work. You get an awful lot of FF miles for a JFK-NRT routing, even for someone like myself who isn't fully married to my FF program.
 
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RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US

Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:20 am

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 13):
Call them Tokyo Tower Air

lol! took me a second to notice :P I remember flying Tower Air and its 747 operation
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RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US

Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:49 am

I think the whole idea of Skymark operating A380s is extremely bizarre, especially if the A380 ends up having a large-sized premium cabin (more than 50 seats). I expect premium pax in Japan would have strong loyalty towards JL+NH, and 99% of premium pax (or all pax for that matter) in the US haven't even heard of Skymark.

Didn't the company even decide to shut down its Osaka Kansai operation? They can't even make a market the size of Osaka work?

Hawaii-Tokyo is probably the only market I think might work for Skymark, with A330-300 aircraft in an "Air Asia X-type" configuration.
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RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US

Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:07 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 6):
With a cheap enough price NYC can be a wonderful shopping, or weekend trip for the Japanese, especially the younger crowd which would be more open to a LCC concept.

One of the largest travel agencies in Japan, H.I.S, has a ~30% stake in Skymark, so that is probably the only leg standing under the table of their business plan. But Japanese consumers are increasingly moving away from consolidators in recent years, so this doesn't seem like a sure bet at all.

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 13):
Thank you and good night.

Basically, yes. The Japanese business press basically thinks Nishikubo-san, Skymark's founder and leader, is out of his friggin mind.
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phxa340
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RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US

Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:25 am

This has train wreck written all over it. Business travelers are going to stick with NH, JL, UA DL etc who can offer them an expanded network and perks. That leaves the low yield budget traveler. I wish them luck - they are going to need every bit of it.
 
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RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US

Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:32 am

Would that be interested in to know how much the airfare is!!
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RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US

Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:35 am

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Skymark states is desires to introduce service between Tokyo Narita and New York JFK utilizing A380 aircraft during the second half of 2014.

   buddy of mine is currently training to be an A380 pilot and he said that he should be taking the 380 to JFK for "proving routes" once they get it delivered. It should be the first routes utilized by Skymark's A380s.

Quoting Wingtips56 (Reply 2):
Isn't Skymark planning to configure the A380 pretty much to the maximum capacity, i.e. 800+ seats? Can there be that much LCC demand for TYO-NYC?
Quoting VCy (Reply 5):
nope, 394

They may be a LCC but they are marketing this as the most luxurious route to the US. I'm not sure how well this is going to do, but the Japanese business community seems enthused about it. I hope the price is right; I'm currently doing research right now on how much this is going to be. Obviously Skymark is not allowed marketing a price until the DOT gives them permission.
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RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US

Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:37 am

Quoting keuleatr72 (Reply 4):
I think you mean Air Austral. They have chosen to equip their birds with 800 seats.

They have also chosen to cancel those orders.  
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RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US

Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:41 am

My money is on Skymark going belly up... Either JL or NH will pick up the slack & probably keep the A380s and sell off the A330s considering neither operator has the type in their fleet...

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RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US

Thu Jan 03, 2013 2:14 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 12):

I thought it was going to be an all Y+ product when they first announced it? Either way its the lowest density A380 planned yet.
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RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US

Thu Jan 03, 2013 2:21 am

Quoting flightsimer (Reply 24):
I thought it was going to be an all Y+ product when they first announced it? Either way its the lowest density A380 planned yet.
Quoting EK413 (Reply 23):
My money is on Skymark going belly up
Quoting phxa340 (Reply 19):
This has train wreck written all over it.
Quoting ikramerica (Reply 13):
Call them Tokyo Tower Air.

You guys forget that Skymark is probably the most popular LCC in Japan. A lot of people are complaining that NH and JL are wayyyyyyyy too expensive, and with Skymark's codesharing with DL, this has a LOT of potential if it is played properly.

Plus, knowing how Japan markets things, they will market this service as the "First Japanese A380" or something (even though IIRC SQ, MH, and KE all have operated the 380 to the US in the past from NRT)

A rumor I heard was that Skymark was going to begin a flight to ATL or DTW in order to expand its relationship with DL.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 18):
One of the largest travel agencies in Japan, H.I.S, has a ~30% stake in Skymark, so that is probably the only leg standing under the table of their business plan.

HIS is a growing travel company too so Im pretty sure this is going to only influence Skymark more.


Just for reference, Skymark's IATA code is BC.
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RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US

Thu Jan 03, 2013 2:44 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 25):

We're not forgetting anything , an LCC flying an A380 with sub 450 seats is suicide. By your logic that popularity equals profits , Virgin America should be making money hand over fist.
 
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RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US

Thu Jan 03, 2013 2:54 am

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 1):
Interesting, I still never understood why Skymark ordered the a380.

Their biggest investor is a Japanese travel company. They intende to offer long haul low cost service. If they do it as part of packaged tours and less as a standalone airline, it coudl work.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 6):
If they are indeed pursuing a lower cost model for these flights, I would think they would have a relative dense configuration.

   If they try to go premium they'll be dead on arrival.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9):
So with 10 A330s and 6 A380s on the way, what are the other markets do we think Skymark is looking at in the US?

I'd say JFK, MCO, HNL at least. Maybe LAX.
Maybe a triangle route NRT-MCO-JFK-NRT, would work, but they need a lot more than 400 seats.
 
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RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US

Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:14 am

Quoting airbazar (Reply 27):
Maybe a triangle route NRT-MCO-JFK-NRT, would work, but they need a lot more than 400 seats.

If you are going to do something like that might as well make MCO a tag on from JFK (so in other words NRT-JFK-MCO-JFK-NRT), not a triangle route. Your proposed routing is only attractive to people going to/from MCO.
 
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RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US

Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:49 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 25):
HIS is a growing travel company too



They were only growing the last couple of years because of the strong yen. Now it's heading north again. Travel agencies as a whole have been struggling the last 5 years as Rakuten and Yahoo.jp have beefed up their package and reservations offerings.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 25):
A lot of people are complaining that NH and JL are wayyyyyyyy too expensive

You mean 20-somethings with small incomes. The other thing working against players like Skymark is all of the major banks and card networks like AEON, JCB, and Edy have programs tied into JAL and ANA mileage points.
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RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US

Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:00 am

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 29):
You mean 20-somethings with small incomes. The other thing working against players like Skymark is all of the major banks and card networks like AEON, JCB, and Edy have programs tied into JAL and ANA mileage points.

Well my contacts are a variety of people, not just college students. A buddy of mine works for a trading company in Nagoya and told me every time he comes to Los Angeles he flies with SQ because it's the cheapest option with the best quality service.
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RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US

Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:06 am

Quoting travelin man (Reply 11):
NYC-Tokyo seems like a tough market to break into for an airline that has little to no brand awareness in the US, and several entrenched competitors already serving it.

I would think awareness in the US is not really a factor. They're a Japanese airline and their primary market will be Japanese travelers in both directions. Even on ANA and JAL, which you'd probably say have much higher brand awareness here, whenever I fly the only Americans on board are confused code sharers trying to figure out the meal options... and me.

New York has a huge Japanese population and most of them are young and poor. They scrimped and saved and came here because they feel stifled in Japan, but a lot of them end up going back permanently out of disillusionment and the ones who don't still want to visit their friends and family more often than they can flying on full-service fares. That's going to be the market for an LCC. Whether there's enough there to fill an A380 on an ongoing basis, I dunno. I didn't see the frequency this was planned to be offered, which makes a difference.

Also, the tie-in with HIS is going to help too. Every Japanese person I know (which is probably around 100 people total) has used HIS at one time or another. They're not the only travel agency out there but they are big in Japan, and among Japanese in New York (where HIS also has an office).
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RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US

Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:14 am

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 31):
Also, the tie-in with HIS is going to help too. Every Japanese person I know (which is probably around 100 people total) has used HIS at one time or another. They're not the only travel agency out there but they are big in Japan, and among Japanese in New York (where HIS also has an office).

This is the zinger for my friends here in the US: HIS is what nearly ALL of my Japanese friends have used to get back and forth between Japan and the US.

Just some notes here, I just asked a total of 200 of my Japanese contacts on Facebook what they think of this new service, and I am waiting for responses. Obviously this is an unofficial poll but as I previously stated my contacts are varied and diverse in Japan.
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RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US

Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:25 am

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 19):
That leaves the low yield budget traveler.


Wouldn't SFO and LAX be a better market for budget travellers to & from Japan?

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 13):
Call them Tokyo Tower Air.


Tower Air used old planes. Although I never flew them, all the complaints I heard about Tower Air was the age of their aircraft. Brand new A380s shouldn't have any issues.
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RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US

Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:28 am

Quoting travelin man (Reply 11):
If AF can fit 516 seats on their A380, I would think Skymark would be able to put at least 550 if not 600+...

I would lower the bar to 450 as the minimum, but I agree that Skymark must go dense or go home.

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 13):

Call them Tokyo Tower Air.

Thank you and good night.

The only similarity is that Skymark also has VLAs. Skymark also has some 'mind share' in Japan and the tie up with HIS is something Tower didn't have. The current Japanese economy won't help... But if they do offer a true LCC price/configuration, I know quite a few who will use them.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 27):
If they try to go premium they'll be dead on arrival.

Some premium would work. The original high premium is a non-starter and was only for PR.

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RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US

Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:39 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 33):
Wouldn't SFO and LAX be a better market for budget travellers to & from Japan?

Skymark is intending on sending the 380 to LAX and the 330 to SFO.
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RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US

Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:03 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 25):

You here lots of rumors apparently , I'm still waiting for your last one to come true of DL buying TN  
 
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RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US

Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:09 am

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 36):
I'm still waiting for your last one to come true of DL buying TN

   I was never expecting that to actually happen. As I stated countless times in that thread, I thought it was so crazy that I had to share it.
Either way, it makes sense. If BC makes it big, let's say it does, and they join an alliance, Skyteam is the best bet IMO.
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RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US

Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:32 am

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 31):
Even on ANA and JAL, which you'd probably say have much higher brand awareness here, whenever I fly the only Americans on board are confused code sharers trying to figure out the meal options... and me.

LOL - my relatives from CA would be among those always confused about the meals. I always bring them over on NH.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 30):
A buddy of mine works for a trading company in Nagoya

Right, so if his company does OK and he's in his early 30s or younger, he's still making around $65K or less. That was my point.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 34):
Skymark also has some 'mind share' in Japan and the tie up with HIS is something Tower didn't have.

The H.I.S. website is currently quoting prices in the 75,000 yen range for a weekday roundtrip to NYC from the Tokyo area in a quiet travel period in March - and that's the cheapest for DL/UA. Considering 30,000 yen of that goes to agent fees, taxes, and the fuel surcharge, that leaves a base fare of around 45,000 yen - or around $550. If Skymark undercuts by 10-15% it's going to be tough to get the numbers to work pretty quick.

[Edited 2013-01-02 21:33:09]
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RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US

Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:46 am

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 38):
Right, so if his company does OK and he's in his early 30s or younger, he's still making around $65K or less. That was my point.

Which sortof brings my point too. Most of my Japanese friends have responded with a "yes" to if they would fly Skymark if their service was good.

One person told me though that she was concerned that if it's a LCC, then some of the luxuries of a mainliner may be sacrifice. One worried the plane would be overcramped....her reaction when I told her it was a 380 with around 380 seats was priceless.... it does bring up your other point... she said "how are they going to make money on that?"

But think about it...it's a lighter-weight A380, less fuel charges.
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RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US

Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:56 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 34):

Tower Air was started in conjunction with an American based Isreal tour operation and didn't have new planes, they certainly weren't ancient in 1983 either. They just got old over time. Their model was based on tours and charters on vla to very specific markets to give an alternative to existing established carriers.

How you can say Skymark has nothing in common is weird. They have a lot more in common than they do with a lot of other carriers. And let's see how their A380s look after 10-20 years, if they last that long.
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RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US

Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:03 am

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 40):
How you can say Skymark has nothing in common is weird. They have a lot more in common than they do with a lot of other carriers. And let's see how their A380s look after 10-20 years, if they last that long.

Not so fast here: Sure BC is associated with H.I.S., but H.I.S. is a very diverse group too. They're not a tour guide group entirely.
even though they shut off ops at KIX and focused at ITM, they are still a lot of times used by biz travelers to get from TYO to Kansai quickly. The Shinkansen may be fast, but it still isn't as quick as a quick hop from HND to ITM.

Other popular applications of BC are flying domestic at a very cheap flight, or the quick flight up to TYO for a business meeting, or school trips going to CTS, Akita, etc etc.

They're quite diverse IMO.

Here's some links on BC:
http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/skymark.htm

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic...-Tokyo_Tokyo_Prefecture_Kanto.html

Pretty good reviews, if you ask me.

http://www.skymark.co.jp/en/
Here's their website if you guys don't quite know.
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RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US

Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:05 am

If Skymarks plan doesn't work, looks like we may have the first used A380s pop up on the market pretty soon...
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RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US

Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:43 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 12):
Their original suggested configuration was 114 Business Class and 280 Economy.

If they did something like 94 Business (top deck, a la KE) and 427 (main deck, a la EK) I think they could make it work. Splitting the decks completely you could have a really good Business product whilst keeping the costs a little lower than competitors. With no competition from other Japanese airlines for the A380 specifically, they just need to undercut SQ to get a decent market share.

Edit: SQ point only relevant if they operate to LAX. Yes, AA and DL operate route as well but they fall in line with JL and NH in not operating the A380 either.

[Edited 2013-01-03 02:49:10]
 
BlueSky1976
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RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US

Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:52 am

On one hand, it is difficult to argue with those, who believe Skymark launching their service to New York with A380 is too much.

On the other hand - remember how Virgin Atlantic came to existance. One plane (747), one route (LHR-JFK). The rest is history.

I am positive certain haters in this thread would praise the airline for this announcement, had Skymark ordered 747-8i or 777-300ERs instead...
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SKAirbus
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RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US

Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:12 pm

I thought Skymark wanted to use the aircraft on routes to Europe too, more specifically London.

Considering no other long haul airline can really make it work at LGW apart from VS and BA (the latter being questionable), I imagine they will hold out for LHR slots before sending the A380 there.
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airbazar
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RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US

Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:37 pm

Quoting Polot (Reply 28):
If you are going to do something like that might as well make MCO a tag on from JFK (so in other words NRT-JFK-MCO-JFK-NRT), not a triangle route. Your proposed routing is only attractive to people going to/from MCO.

Well, the point is that visiting multiple cities is a common characteristic of Japanese tourists and skymark can't sell tickets between 2 US cities, so a triangle route is more favorale than a tag. I suggested a trianlge route to MCO and JFK on top of a dedicated service to JFK, not instead of it. In my example, MCO would be the primary destination.
 
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gdg9
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RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US

Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:42 pm

Quoting AirlineCritic (Reply 3):
m sure there is demand if they price it appropriately.

In 2010 I snagged a $456 r/t with taxes EWR--DTW-NRT fare. Hadn't thought about going to Tokyo but the fare was so cheap how could I not? Wednesday travel to and from on the 747.

If the fares are cheap, I suspect you'll find some leisure travelers.
 
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RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US

Thu Jan 03, 2013 2:30 pm

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 38):
If Skymark undercuts by 10-15% it's going to be tough to get the numbers to work pretty quick.

What are the fares peak season?

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 40):
How you can say Skymark has nothing in common is weird. They have a lot more in common than they do with a lot of other carriers. And let's see how their A380s look after 10-20 years, if they last that long.

First, I didn't say they had nothing in common. I just do not see the level of commonality you wish to imply.

Does Skymark have an executive in charge of operations with zero airline experience a la Tower? IMHO putting incompetent relatives in key positions at Tower is part of what doomed them. Not the 747. The nepotism at Tower is why that name will never be revived in aviation.

But the 747 has the same CASM as the 763ER while the A388 has about 14% lower CASM than the 77W. Big with no CASM benefit is done. And most of Skymark's flights will be on smaller metal. That is a huge difference with Tower.

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RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US

Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:15 pm

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 44):
On the other hand - remember how Virgin Atlantic came to existance. One plane (747), one route (LHR-JFK). The rest is history.

It wasn't even that good. The route was LGW-EWR, and with very low prices. Standby as low as £99. But VS entered a growing market, while from all accounts the U.S. - Japan market has been in decline for the past decade without signs of turning around any time soon.
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