HermansCVR580
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Old ORD Cargo Ramp

Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:15 pm

Quick couple of questions about the old ramp space at O'hare where the international ramp T5 is now. I have a poster of ORD that was from the late 80's early 90's and where T5 is now at one time was a huge ramp looks like there was GA aircraft parked there with what looks like a few Zantop L188's. Just wondering who's ramp was this? Also I know the old IAB was tore down to make way for the new UAL terminal but why didn't they build the new international terminal first then the UAL terminal. You went from having a International terminal to if I remember correctly for the longest time you had to board a bus then drive somewhere to clear customs, the aircraft parked on the ramp space where T5 is now but there were no buildings or jetways.


Thanks in advance
Blugoose
The right decision at the wrong time, is still a wrong decision. "Hal Carr"
 
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mayor
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RE: Old ORD Cargo Ramp

Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:03 pm

Well, it was after I had left, but before the new int'l terminal was built, they were using concourse "L" and the parking garage adjacent for customs and immigration.

When I worked there, just before you got to the UA terminal was Butler Aviation and the GA ops.

Where you're talking about, which is gone, now, was AA's cargo building, another cargo building with OZ, AZ, PA, etc., then Flying Tigers building (DL's outbound cargo ops were there when I first hired on), then I believe UA, then TWA, then the last building had EA, NC, LH, AF, KL, AC, CO. This was going from west to east,

In about '73 or so, DL moved into the cargo building at the corner of Bessie Coleman Drive and the cargo road. I believe they still used this to process the cargo from the cargo flights they contract. Before we moved into that building, we had a split operation. The outbound ops was in the same building with OZ, AZ, PA.......the inbound was across Bessie Coleman Drive from the soon to be DL cargo building. It was also a parking spot for carts, containers, transporters, etc.
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jcwr56
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RE: Old ORD Cargo Ramp

Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:40 pm

Mayor, you're correct as the order going from west to east on what was called the old "cargo" taxiway.

The only building left curently standing is the last one you listed. It's now called the Lynx building.

The reason why it wasn't new IAB then UA first was MONEY, UA got what they wanted first. You also have to remember at the time 23 airlines had to sign long term leases to have T5 built. That was a major undertaking at the time considering it was going to be a common use International and domestic terminal.
 
HermansCVR580
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RE: Old ORD Cargo Ramp

Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:05 am

Forgot also this was a different world then. FedEx and UPS were not what they are today and even some of the major carriers had their own freight operation. Forgot about Flying Tigers I saw one of their 747's that diverted to MKE because of snow. If I remember Flying Tigers had a pretty big operation at ORD before FEDEX. We're they scheduled or ADHOC?
The right decision at the wrong time, is still a wrong decision. "Hal Carr"
 
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RE: Old ORD Cargo Ramp

Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:58 am

Quoting HermansCVR580 (Reply 3):
If I remember Flying Tigers had a pretty big operation at ORD before FEDEX. We're they scheduled or ADHOC?



They were scheduled, with DC-8-63s, then the 747........had one of their 8s, pulling into a parking space, blow over the 4 carts, full of freight, that were behind me. I had to bail out of the tug because I thought IT was going over.
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HermansCVR580
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RE: Old ORD Cargo Ramp

Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:21 am

Is that old LYNX building used for anything nowadays? It seems to have been empty for as long as I can remember.
The right decision at the wrong time, is still a wrong decision. "Hal Carr"
 
jcwr56
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RE: Old ORD Cargo Ramp

Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:42 am

Quoting HermansCVR580 (Reply 5):

It's used for storing of city and some ground handling equipment. In the event the T5 hardstands are full, we'll make arrangements with the city to park aircraft (usually narrow-bodies) over there.

There was talk about tearing it down and extending the T5 ramp but come to find out, the price tag was around $30MM and that was just too much for the airlines to spend.
 
HermansCVR580
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RE: Old ORD Cargo Ramp

Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:20 pm

Wow 30 million to tear it down!!! The city could sell it to me for $1 and I will turn it into a spotters club. Last time I was on the ramp at ORD long before 9-11 there were a couple of Airborne DC-8's parked out there. Those hard stands were great for picture taking. Ahh one of the perks to working in the airline industry and having connections, I could get the penny ramp tour at ORD.
The right decision at the wrong time, is still a wrong decision. "Hal Carr"
 
copter808
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RE: Old ORD Cargo Ramp

Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:23 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 1):
When I worked there, just before you got to the UA terminal was Butler Aviation and the GA ops.

Wow, that was a while back! I remember those days too. I remember parking at Butler and Morton Salt's Jetstar parked in the Butler hangar.

I also recall landing at Butler's airport in Oakbrook a few times.
 
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RE: Old ORD Cargo Ramp

Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:53 pm

Quoting jcwr56 (Reply 6):
It's used for storing of city and some ground handling equipment. In the event the T5 hardstands are full, we'll make arrangements with the city to park aircraft (usually narrow-bodies) over there.

The Chicago Police Station for the airport was in that building, IIRC. I forgot to mention earlier that NW was also in the same building as PA, OZ, AZ, DL (before the "new" building), BA.


I can remember that we used to have a supervisor that would stand by our dock door on the street side, so none of us would try to leave "early" when the next shift came on, but we got around that. We would just go out the back door, on the ramp, walk down a little ways and cut thru one of the other airlines' freight facilities and then to the parking lot.  
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
HermansCVR580
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RE: Old ORD Cargo Ramp

Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:44 pm

I swear everyone has one of those supervisors.

So from the sounds of it Mayor Delta had a much larger operation at ORD than they have today. If the freight building I am thinking of that Delta had/has is a pretty big building for their freight ops. Heck I'd almost consider the Delta ORD ops of past almost a mini hub.
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RE: Old ORD Cargo Ramp

Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:02 pm

Quoting HermansCVR580 (Reply 10):
So from the sounds of it Mayor Delta had a much larger operation at ORD than they have today. If the freight building I am thinking of that Delta had/has is a pretty big building for their freight ops. Heck I'd almost consider the Delta ORD ops of past almost a mini hub.

Well, I've not seen the former NW building, so I don't know how that compares to the building I worked in. That building, as I have mentioned is on the corner of Bessie Coleman Drive and the cargo road. In one end of the building was the cabin service department (two dock doors) and cargo had 5 outbound dock doors and inbound had 5 doors plus offices in the south end. Also there was a full basement with freight elevators and offices, also.

Before we moved into the building, we had a freighter operation also (L-100).


The ops at ORD, was as many as 90 flights a day, at that time and that, of course included widebodies. I know it's not nearly as big now, but the cargo ops are probably larger now because of the cargo airlines that they've contracted to handle.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
jsnww81
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RE: Old ORD Cargo Ramp

Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:12 pm

Quoting HermansCVR580 (Reply 10):
Heck I'd almost consider the Delta ORD ops of past almost a mini hub.

My August 1973 OAG shows 78 daily departures on Delta from ORD. That makes it Delta's second-largest station behind ATL and just ahead of BOS and MSY.

ORD was a big station for just about everybody actually:

United: 210 daily flights (largest station in the network)
American: 137 daily flights (largest in the network)
TWA: 115 daily flights (largest station in the network)
Delta: 78 daily flights (#2 behind ATL)
North Central: 62 daily flights (largest station in the network)
Northwest: 60 daily flights (#2 behind MSP)
Ozark: 47 daily flights (#2 behind STL)
Eastern: 35 daily flights (#13)
Braniff: 19 daily flights (#6)
Continental: 18 daily flights (#7, just behind LBB - interesting)
Allegheny: 16 daily flights (#22)
 
HermansCVR580
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RE: Old ORD Cargo Ramp

Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:55 pm

Interesting stuff jsn

I wish someone would come out with a book on ORD from that time frame covering the operations during that period. There is a pretty good book on TWA @ ORD I think it was just re-released in color.
The right decision at the wrong time, is still a wrong decision. "Hal Carr"
 
ericaasen
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RE: Old ORD Cargo Ramp

Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:34 am

Quoting mayor (Reply 11):
Well, I've not seen the former NW building, so I don't know how that compares to the building I worked in. That building, as I have mentioned is on the corner of Bessie Coleman Drive and the cargo road.

The NW Cargo building is several times larger than the old DL Cargo building. I believe the ramp has space for 3 or 4 747s to be parked at once. I think we share the building with one of the Asian cargo carriers and the DL GSE shop is in the building as well.

Currently there is nothing at the old DL Cargo building, we were using it for Air China cargo, but we don't have that contract anymore nor do we have any cargo contracts currently. The biggest thing they're doing over there is mail, I believe they send a few trucks a day to MSP, DTW, and ATL with mail cans.

As for the pax side, we're between 55 and 60 flights a day during the summer, fewer in the winter even with the CDG flight.
 
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RE: Old ORD Cargo Ramp

Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:23 pm

One other thing to add and then we can just let this fade away.


The third cargo building from the west, Flying Tiger's building is where DL had their outbound cargo ops, in a small portion of it in the south end. Right outside that is where we broke down the inbound and stored the cargo in 25 foot trailers, with the wheels removed. We also had a couple of house trailers where the offices were. South of that, next to the taxiway was an area of the ramp where we worked the freighter. We used to pull the freighter in, he'd spin it around facing the taxiway.


I guess my memory of where the airlines' cargo ops were located is good because I transferred alot of cargo to those carriers over the years from '71 until '80.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen