factsonly
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United Adjust Transatlantic Capacity S13

Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:53 am

This weekend United has released an update to its Summer 2013 Transatlantic schedule, with some surprising changes:

- EWR - AMS 1x daily B767-300 replaces B757-200 - sCO was 2xdaily B757-200
- IAD - AMS 1x daily B767-300 replaces 1x daily B757-200 - sUA was 1x daily B777-200
- IAH - AMS 1x daily B777-200 replaces 1x failt B767-300 - back to sCO SKYTEAM capacity
- IAH - LHR 3x daily B767-300 replaces 2x daily B777-200
- IAH - FRA 1x daily B777-200 replaces 1x daily B767-400

Has anyone found any further adjustments?


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76794p
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RE: United Adjust Transatlantic Capacity S13

Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:10 pm

Quoting factsonly (Thread starter):
- IAH - FRA 1x daily B777-200 replaces 1x daily B767-400

Now there are roughly 800 seats a day between the two cities with the B772 and the A388. I don't think the loads will be good on UA because the LH product is a lot better than it is on UA.
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codc10
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RE: United Adjust Transatlantic Capacity S13

Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:19 pm

Quoting 76794p (Reply 1):
the LH product is a lot better than it is on UA.

Not in business class. The food/wine may be better on LH but the angled J seats and "cattle-car" atmosphere in the upper deck of the LH 380 left me thoroughly unimpressed.
 
LJ
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RE: United Adjust Transatlantic Capacity S13

Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:24 pm

Quoting factsonly (Thread starter):
- IAH - AMS 1x daily B777-200 replaces 1x failt B767-300 - back to sCO SKYTEAM capacity

Basically, the 777 replaces the 787 which was always destined to do this run (though initially a 764 was planned).

Quoting factsonly (Thread starter):

- EWR - AMS 1x daily B767-300 replaces B757-200 - sCO was 2xdaily B757-200

A notable reduction in capacity (well at least the 757s are gone).

Quoting factsonly (Thread starter):
- IAD - AMS 1x daily B767-300 replaces 1x daily B757-200 - sUA was 1x daily B777-200

AFAIK this is incorrect. The 767 did S12 (untill September when the 757 took over). The same thing is currently in their slot request, thus it's likely that there is no change in S13. The same applies to EWR, which will mean an even bigger downgauge as S12 was twice daily with 757. Seems that UA is losing its battles (with the exception of IAH).

Quoting factsonly (Thread starter):
- IAH - AMS 1x daily B777-200 replaces 1x failt B767-300 - back to sCO SKYTEAM capacity

Not really as AMS-IAH was twice daily when CO was in Skyteam.
 
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calpsafltskeds
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RE: United Adjust Transatlantic Capacity S13

Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:36 pm

Quoting LJ (Reply 3):
Quoting factsonly (Thread starter):
- IAH - AMS 1x daily B777-200 replaces 1x failt B767-300 - back to sCO SKYTEAM capacity

Not really as AMS-IAH was twice daily when CO was in Skyteam.

I believe the second IAH-AMS was not daily, operating either 4 or 5 days per week. Down from maybe 2300 seats/wk to 1869.
One would think the dropping of SkyTeam at AMS would be a bigger hit than about a 20% drop in total seats.

If anyone wants to compare TATL impact of Star vs. SkyTeam, then additions of seats at FRA and MUC should be measured against seat reductions at CGD and AMS.
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AAIL86
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RE: United Adjust Transatlantic Capacity S13

Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:39 pm

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 2):
Not in business class. The food/wine may be better on LH but the angled J seats and "cattle-car" atmosphere in the upper deck of the LH 380 left me thoroughly unimpressed.

Yes, to be sure. As great an airline as LH are, they sure blew it on the A380 biz seat selection....
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joeljack
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RE: United Adjust Transatlantic Capacity S13

Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:48 pm

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 2):
Not in business class. The food/wine may be better on LH but the angled J seats and "cattle-car" atmosphere in the upper deck of the LH 380 left me thoroughly unimpressed.

I agree 100%!!! Those A380 business class angled seats are horrible!!! 11pm departure FRA-JNB and couldn't sleep the entire flight! Never again for this guy!! UA seats are much better!!! ....especially the PMUA business class new seats...love them!!
 
FlyingHollander
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RE: United Adjust Transatlantic Capacity S13

Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:54 pm

I'm glad to see the widebodies back at AMS. Now if only US Airways would put a widebody on PHL-AMS. Even though the 757 is a beautiful aircraft I don't think it belongs on transatlantic flights between two large airports.
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STT757
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RE: United Adjust Transatlantic Capacity S13

Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:12 pm

EWR-EDI goes to 2x daily 757. Also EWR-FCO returns with a 764.
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skinny
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RE: United Adjust Transatlantic Capacity S13

Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:28 pm

At lease BHX is still on at least for now must make profit then.
 
United885
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RE: United Adjust Transatlantic Capacity S13

Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:48 pm

By they way, UA announced that they want to concentrate their 747 fleet at SFO. So only SFO - FRA will remain as UA 747 flights between USA and Europe.
I remember that there wasn´t so much other 747 flights between USA and Europe but aren´t there flight to LHR?
I guess with the re-orientation of the transatlantic capacitys, UA will focus their capacities to the asian market.
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UALFAson
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RE: United Adjust Transatlantic Capacity S13

Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:05 pm

Quoting United885 (Reply 10):
I remember that there wasn´t so much other 747 flights between USA and Europe but aren´t there flight to LHR?

Other than SFO-FRA, UA has never been a big 747 operator between the US and Europe. In recent years, during the summer season FRA would get the occassional 747 to ORD or IAD, but that's about it. LHR has almost always been a 777/767 destination.

Quoting factsonly (Thread starter):
- EWR - AMS 1x daily B767-300 replaces B757-200 - sCO was 2xdaily B757-200
- IAD - AMS 1x daily B767-300 replaces 1x daily B757-200 - sUA was 1x daily B777-200

Are these going to be newly-reconfigured 2-class 763 birds? If so, it might be UA trying to right size capacity. I read on here multiple times that pre-merger UA was pretty popular in AMS, but as a cheap holiday option to the U.S. A 2-class 763 would offer more capacity than a 757 but offer fewer premium seats than a 777.
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JAAlbert
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RE: United Adjust Transatlantic Capacity S13

Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:29 pm

Maybe UA will be cheaper for all classes which will help fill the cabin.

Quoting 76794p (Reply 1):
I don't think the loads will be good on UA because the LH product is a lot better than it is on UA.
 
AA94
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RE: United Adjust Transatlantic Capacity S13

Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:34 pm

Quoting FlyingHollander (Reply 7):
Even though the 757 is a beautiful aircraft I don't think it belongs on transatlantic flights between two large airports.

I agree, but UA isn't the only one deploying it on TATL markets between two important cities.
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tommy767
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RE: United Adjust Transatlantic Capacity S13

Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:43 pm

Quoting factsonly (Thread starter):
- EWR - AMS 1x daily B767-300 replaces B757-200 - sCO was 2xdaily B757-200

About effing time. DL has been operating a 763 on EWR-AMS for the past 3 summers.

Unfortunately not seeing a lot of 757 switch ups out of EWR. Would be nice to see the 763 on EWR-DUB/MAD/MAN like they did in the past.
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Viscount724
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RE: United Adjust Transatlantic Capacity S13

Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:05 pm

Quoting Joeljack (Reply 6):
Quoting CODC10 (Reply 2):
Not in business class. The food/wine may be better on LH but the angled J seats and "cattle-car" atmosphere in the upper deck of the LH 380 left me thoroughly unimpressed.

I agree 100%!!! Those A380 business class angled seats are horrible!!! 11pm departure FRA-JNB and couldn't sleep the entire flight! Never again for this guy!! UA seats are much better!!! ....especially the PMUA business class new seats...love them!!

LH said a year or so ago that the new fully flat J class seats introduced on the 747-8 will eventually replace all J seats on their entire longhaul fleet, including the current seats on the A380s.
 
avek00
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RE: United Adjust Transatlantic Capacity S13

Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:16 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 15):
LH said a year or so ago that the new fully flat J class seats introduced on the 747-8 will eventually replace all J seats on their entire longhaul fleet, including the current seats on the A380s.

Correct, and the A380s are the last birds slated to get those seats, in the 2015-2016 timeframe. For now, United offers the better Business Class product on Houston-Frankfurt.
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bergkampsticket
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RE: United Adjust Transatlantic Capacity S13

Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:28 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 8):

I think that's the same as last year then? I had heard the 2 x daily 757 period was going to be reduced.
 
LAXintl
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RE: United Adjust Transatlantic Capacity S13

Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:32 pm

Quoting factsonly (Thread starter):
with some surprising changes:

Um what is so surprising?

Quoting United885 (Reply 10):
o only SFO - FRA will remain as UA 747 flights between USA and Europe.

A SFO-LHR (954/955) also gets the 744 for the summer.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
factsonly
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RE: United Adjust Transatlantic Capacity S13

Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:13 pm

Quoting LJ (Reply 3):
AFAIK this is incorrect. The 767 did S12 (untill September when the 757 took over). The same thing is currently in their slot request, thus it's likely that there is no change in S13. The same applies to EWR, which will mean an even bigger downgauge as S12 was twice daily with 757. Seems that UA is losing its battles (with the exception of IAH).

Sorry to say this is incorrect.

UA operated a single B757 on both IAD-AMS and EWR-AMS in S12, routing the aircraft EWR-AMS-IAD-AMS-EWR on a daily basis. It was because of this significant downsize by UA that KLM commenced a second AMS-IAD service several days a week in S12 to compensate.

It was CO that operated EWR-AMS 2x daily with B757 prior to the merger, while UA operated 1x daily B777 IAD-AMS in the past.
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: United Adjust Transatlantic Capacity S13

Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:52 am

IAD-CDG is being converted from a 3 class 763 to a 2 class 763, so a slight bump up in capacity.
 
laca773
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RE: United Adjust Transatlantic Capacity S13

Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:21 am

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 4):
I believe the second IAH-AMS was not daily, operating either 4 or 5 days per week. Down from maybe 2300 seats/wk to 1869.
One would think the dropping of SkyTeam at AMS would be a bigger hit than about a 20% drop in total seats.

Isn't this mainly because many who travel via IAH-AMS transit onward to oil rich nations in Africa? I wouldn't be surprised UA hasn't decreased the capacity in this market for this reason since their loyal ffs like transiting via AMS to Africa, even with UA operating IAH-LOS.

Quoting Joeljack (Reply 6):
I agree 100%!!! Those A380 business class angled seats are horrible!!! 11pm departure FRA-JNB and couldn't sleep the entire flight! Never again for this guy!! UA seats are much better!!! ....especially the PMUA business class new seats...love them!!

Does anyone have an idea when LH is going to start the upgrades their J cabins? It's obvious why LH is flying them to IAH/SFO-large Star hubs. They do need to get a consistent and better J product for longhaul across the board and do so promptly

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 18):

A SFO-LHR (954/955) also gets the 744 for the summer.

Does UA have the lowest fares in this market? Both BA and VS have much better products across the board if UA chooses to send the 744 in the SFO-LHR market.

I do believe UA is downgauging LAX-LHR from the 77E to a 3 class 787.
 
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drerx7
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RE: United Adjust Transatlantic Capacity S13

Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:30 am

Quoting laca773 (Reply 22):
Isn't this mainly because many who travel via IAH-AMS transit onward to oil rich nations in Africa?

Not just Africa but the North Sea and Norway.

Quoting laca773 (Reply 22):
I do believe UA is downgauging LAX-LHR from the 77E to a 3 class 787.

I'm assuming this is a typo.
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SonomaFlyer
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RE: United Adjust Transatlantic Capacity S13

Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:33 am

This is a result of the introduction of the 787s and finally getting the pilots contract issues sorted to allow a merger of the pilot groups and rotate the fleet to appropriate locations to optimize their network.

Many of us wondered how soon the 757s would give way to 763s on the TATL routes. This is great news. It also gives UA the opportunity to move the 757s to routes in the South American, Caribbean and other Latin American markets.
 
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drerx7
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RE: United Adjust Transatlantic Capacity S13

Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:58 am

Quoting sonomaflyer (Reply 24):

This is a result of the introduction of the 787s and finally getting the pilots contract issues sorted to allow a merger of the pilot groups and rotate the fleet to appropriate locations to optimize their network.

Many of us wondered how soon the 757s would give way to 763s on the TATL routes. This is great news. It also gives UA the opportunity to move the 757s to routes in the South American, Caribbean and other Latin American markets.

So the pilots contracts did get sorted? That makes sense as I am seeing some limited pmUA flying from IAH to Central American destinations i.e. Airbus to MEX. The freeing up of those transatlantic 757s have afforded IAH to see double daily 757s to BOG.
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N62NA
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RE: United Adjust Transatlantic Capacity S13

Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:40 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 18):
Um what is so surprising?

That UA is dropping the 757 on EWR-AMS and putting in a 763. But "surprising" is subjective. Either way, it's "welcome news" to me.
 
gigneil
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RE: United Adjust Transatlantic Capacity S13

Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:05 am

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 25):
That makes sense as I am seeing some limited pmUA flying from IAH to Central American destinations i.e. Airbus to MEX.

I don't yet think they're related. They're crossfleeting the Airbus planes to IAH in droves - but there is now an sUA base there.

I think we're still a long way away from sCO employees flying sUA planes and vice versa.

NS
 
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AVENSAB727
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RE: United Adjust Transatlantic Capacity S13

Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:09 am

the Airbii have better cargo capability, I can see why they are sending them to IAH. But I think IAH-CCS will go B757 just like IAH-BOG.
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Lufthansa411
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RE: United Adjust Transatlantic Capacity S13

Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:22 am

Quoting avek00 (Reply 16):
Correct, and the A380s are the last birds slated to get those seats, in the 2015-2016 timeframe. For now, United offers the better Business Class product on Houston-Frankfurt.

From what I have heard, at least 2 A380's are scheduled to get the new business class seat in 2013, possibly more depending on whether any problems are encountered. AFAIK LH is not picking specific fleets to upgrade totally, but doing some of each type of a/c each year. Where did you hear that the A380s will be the last upgraded?

[Edited 2013-01-06 20:30:07]
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COflyerBOS
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RE: United Adjust Transatlantic Capacity S13

Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:30 am

AMS was a strong connection point when CO was in Skyteam but don't forget, IAH-AMS is a strong market on its own. This is mostly due to a little company called ROYAL DUTCH SHELL. Lots of O&D between the two cities.
 
VC10er
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RE: United Adjust Transatlantic Capacity S13

Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:48 am

I'm missing something? Is cross fleeting going to happen? Like seeing Global First, 3 class birds from EWR?
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TC957
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RE: United Adjust Transatlantic Capacity S13

Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:02 am

Have all the former UA domestic 763's 664UA - 677UA been converted to long-haul / transatlantic standard now ?
 
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calpsafltskeds
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RE: United Adjust Transatlantic Capacity S13

Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:06 am

Quoting TC957 (Reply 31):
Have all the former UA domestic 763's 664UA - 677UA been converted to long-haul / transatlantic standard now ?

10 done, three in process.

667-677 completed.
664 should exit HKG 1/11/13
665 should exit HKG about 2/10/13
666 should exit HKG about 2/21/13
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Tdan
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RE: United Adjust Transatlantic Capacity S13

Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:11 am

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 22):
Quoting laca773 (Reply 22):
Isn't this mainly because many who travel via IAH-AMS transit onward to oil rich nations in Africa?

Not just Africa but the North Sea and Norway.

KL carries a lot of this traffic, particularly to ABZ, SVG, BGO, etc, but UA does not via AMS. I'm surprised by the increase in gauge to the 777. Shell must have increased their J-seat requirements for the route or it's just an easy place to stick a 777.

Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 27):
But I think IAH-CCS will go B757 just like IAH-BOG.

Won't be happening anytime soon sadly with the current US/Venezuela relationship even though demand has been there for a LONG time.
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avek00
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RE: United Adjust Transatlantic Capacity S13

Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:59 am

Quoting Lufthansa411 (Reply 28):
Where did you hear that the A380s will be the last upgraded?


FlyerTalk, as part of the SCORE discussion. Yes, a few planes of each fleet type will receive New J in coming years, but the A380s are currently scheduled to wrap up at the end of the overhaul process.
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LJ
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RE: United Adjust Transatlantic Capacity S13

Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:09 pm

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 4):
One would think the dropping of SkyTeam at AMS would be a bigger hit than about a 20% drop in total seats.

Not if the corporate Shell contract moved from KL to UA (which happened).

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 4):

I believe the second IAH-AMS was not daily, operating either 4 or 5 days per week. Down from maybe 2300 seats/wk to 1869.

No both were daily (at least during the Summer). AFAIK they served AMS-IAH with a 762 and A 764. The only non daily AMS-IAH flight was the BBJ flight.

Quoting N62NA (Reply 25):

That UA is dropping the 757 on EWR-AMS and putting in a 763. But "surprising" is subjective. Either way, it's "welcome news" to me.

Only between if you travel between June 7th and August 13th. For the remainder of S13 it's a one daily 757 (which is a serious capacity cut by UA. The same applies to IAD, which will only be a 763 until August 26th after which it will become a 757 (6 weekly in the final 2 weeks of S13).

Quoting Tdan (Reply 33):

KL carries a lot of this traffic, particularly to ABZ, SVG, BGO, etc, but UA does not via AMS. I'm surprised by the increase in gauge to the 777. Shell must have increased their J-seat requirements for the route or it's just an easy place to stick a 777.

Or they need the 767-400 elsewhere. BTW it "just" 11 business First seats per flight extra.