BA0197
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United Equipment Base Strategy?

Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:54 pm

Does UA have a strategy in which sees specific aircraft types (or a set number of ac from a type) based at hubs?
EX: 787s based out of IAH

It seems that more efficiencies could be made by doing so. Is it impractical? Is UA too large to effectively manage aircraft bases?

On a side note: Is UA setting up and airbus base at IAH? I've noticed that about 30-40% of shorthaul mainline aircraft are now Airbuses.
 
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Stitch
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RE: United Equipment Base Strategy?

Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:55 pm

All 747-400s will be based out of SFO, but the reason for that is for maintenance reasons (per reports).
 
LAXintl
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RE: United Equipment Base Strategy?

Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:57 pm

Much of the aircraft use is built around crew bases.

IAH was the first 787 base, so yes you got the initial 787 activity from IAH.

Also a Airbus crew base was opened in IAH recently so yes you see more Airbus flying there now.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
tommy767
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RE: United Equipment Base Strategy?

Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:01 pm

At EWR there is more PMUA metal on certain routes. IIRC, ex-JFK based legacy UA crews can now fly out of EWR. Usually there are about 14-15 daily PMUA 757 flights, and a LOT more 319/320 movements. In addition PMCO 757s are now very common on EWR-DEN/SFO/LAX/ORD in addition on flights to Europe.

Most of the PMUA 757 flights are from EWR to Florida: PBI, MCO, FLL, MIA, TPA and certain west coast cities: LAS, PDX, SEA, DEN, LAX, SFO. Occasionally you'll see one on EWR-BOS.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: United Equipment Base Strategy?

Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:04 pm

As I see it, pretty much switching the A32X and 737 bases, sUA 757s being spread evenly through out bases, 747s to SFO, majority 764s to IAD, 777s staying the same for the most part, more 763s going to EWR and IAH.
Beauty is watching a 787 bank to make a short final. Bliss is watching that 787 with a good beer. Nirvana is all of that with a beautiful woman on your side.
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: United Equipment Base Strategy?

Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:05 pm

I know EWR sees a LOT of E170s now. Last time I was at a hotel overlooking EWR in August and I saw a surprising amount of them.
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
T5towbar
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RE: United Equipment Base Strategy?

Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:17 pm

They want to put a few of the 3 class 763 and 777 on some of the routes from EWR, which makes sense. But mainly it has been a pretty even mix of 737 (800 & 900); 757 (both sUA and sCO) quite a few Airbuses;, and most of the widebodies are pretty much the same, with the addition of the 3 class sUA 763. So the rotation has been a pretty diverse mix of sUA & sCO aircraft. I wish we see the 787 more, but the IAH based aircraft have to get some rotation throughout the hubs so we can get some hands on work with it.
A comment from an Ex CON: Work Hard.....Fly Standby!
 
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STT757
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RE: United Equipment Base Strategy?

Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:49 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 3):
In addition PMCO 757s are now very common on EWR-DEN/SFO/LAX/ORD in addition on flights to Europe.

The sCO 757s are also showing up on the JFK-LAX PS flights, so sCO crews are making the trip to JFK too.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
BA0197
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RE: United Equipment Base Strategy?

Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:54 pm

So basically, except for a few examples, ac types (or certain registration numbers) at UA do not have a designated base to which they operate out of.
 
ordbosewr
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RE: United Equipment Base Strategy?

Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:36 am

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 3):
IIRC, ex-JFK based legacy UA crews can now fly out of EWR.

I believe this has been the case all along. NYC based sUA crews can work any of the 3 NYC airports.

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 5):
I know EWR sees a LOT of E170s now.

This has been the case for well over a year, this was one of the first big schedule changes they brought to EWR. I loved it, I got a E170 on routes that were just 50 seaters. They are now running most of those out of C and not A, but those will probably move back to A as they bring the Q400's back into EWR.
 
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DolphinAir747
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RE: United Equipment Base Strategy?

Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:42 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
All 747-400s will be based out of SFO, but the reason for that is for maintenance reasons (per reports).

Don't forget LAX-SYD...
 
gigneil
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RE: United Equipment Base Strategy?

Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:54 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 7):
The sCO 757s are also showing up on the JFK-LAX PS flights, so sCO crews are making the trip to JFK too.

Are they? I see no evidence of them anywhere in the schedule.

NS
 
ikramerica
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RE: United Equipment Base Strategy?

Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:01 am

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 3):

PMCO 757s were always common on LAX/SFO/DEN. They were used quite a bit pre merger.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
UA787DEN
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RE: United Equipment Base Strategy?

Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:08 am

Quoting gigneil (Reply 11):

PS flights are run by PS metal.They are a special premium and plus heavy configuration. I can't find pmCO 757s anywhere in the schedule.

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 10):

They are still mostly based in SFO. I imagine the metal operating LAX-SYD will rotate through SFO.

Remember when the 744s would run ORD-DEN-SFO all the time? I saw my first 747 at DEN gate B42, in tron ORD, going on to SFO.
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: United Equipment Base Strategy?

Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:34 am

Quoting gigneil (Reply 11):
Are they? I see no evidence of them anywhere in the schedule.
Quoting UA787DEN (Reply 13):
PS flights are run by PS metal.They are a special premium and plus heavy configuration. I can't find pmCO 757s anywhere in the schedule.

I have also seen the sCO planes running one of the daily JFK-LAX flights. the 3:40pm departure from JFK (flight 161) is operated by a sCO 752 that is routed AMS-EWR-LAX-JFK-LAX
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
UA787DEN
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RE: United Equipment Base Strategy?

Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:40 am

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 14):

That would be a suckish downgrade for a pax.

PmCO flights didn't use PS, maybe UA doesn't have enough PS configured 757s.

Back to the initial Q, DEN sure sees a lot more 737s than before the merger. It still sees quite a few A320s, a lot of RJs, a good amount of 757s (mostly to hubs, and California/Florida). It doesn't see really any widebodies. Literally fewer than 10 departures a day before the 787s.
 
LAXintl
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RE: United Equipment Base Strategy?

Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:48 am

Quoting UA787DEN (Reply 13):
PS flights are run by PS metal.They are a special premium and plus heavy configuration. I can't find pmCO 757s anywhere in the schedule.

Virtually every day there are a few sCO 757s running p.s. Its been so for a few months now.

For example on Monday January 7th, 3 of 6 LAX-JFK are on sCO 757s, while 2 of 6 JFK-LAX on are on sCO. Also a non p.s. sUA 757 is running a JFK-LAX leg also.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
ikramerica
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RE: United Equipment Base Strategy?

Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:55 am

Quoting UA787DEN (Reply 15):

They have Y+ now and full flat J. The PS fleet is being reconfigured this way as well. And the PS Y+ has less leg room than a bird with Y and Y+. So there isn't much of a downgrade here. UA doesn't sell F on the flight. They don't currently sell Y+ on the PS flights, so its only a downgrade for the non-elite Y pax and only by maybe 1.5" of legroom. The elite pax will be seated in Y+ with more legroom than the PS birds.

And AVOD all around...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
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cosyr
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RE: United Equipment Base Strategy?

Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:07 am

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 17):
They have Y+ now and full flat J. The PS fleet is being reconfigured this way as well. And the PS Y+ has less leg room than a bird with Y and Y+. So there isn't much of a downgrade here. UA doesn't sell F on the flight. They don't currently sell Y+ on the PS flights, so its only a downgrade for the non-elite Y pax and only by maybe 1.5" of legroom. The elite pax will be seated in Y+ with more legroom than the PS birds.

And AVOD all around...

Still what is the point of having a dedicated PS fleet if other planes are flying the route? They aren't reconfiguring the PS planes already, are they? I would prefer the sCO 757's, but it is significantly fewer J seats, no F seats, and if in Y you were expecting 100% Y+, you might be disappointed. Whether upgrade or downgrade, the best course of action is to give people what they expect, I think.
 
LAXintl
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RE: United Equipment Base Strategy?

Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:22 am

The sCO 757s essentially are what the future p.s. product will be.

The aircraft feature the same lieflat product, have Y+ and Y. The only difference really is the distribution of the number of seats per class, with sCO for example only having 16 business seats versus planned 28 on the p.s. planes.

These subs have been known for a long time now with a couple p.s. birds being retired, and others needing to be pulled out for reconfiguration, so the passenger bookings have been made accordingly.

Anyhow, the first reconfigured p.s aircraft will be out later this month, with rest through the summer.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
ikramerica
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RE: United Equipment Base Strategy?

Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:29 am

Quoting cosyr (Reply 18):

The point is that there is virtually no difference. It's not like they are subbing randomly and bumping j pax. They just offer fewer J seats on the particular frequency daily, and no F. They may have chosen this frequency because premium demand is weak at that time of day comparably.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
UA787DEN
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RE: United Equipment Base Strategy?

Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:33 am

The old PS birds had F, J and Y plus.. The new ones have standard Y and a more normal domestic configuration?
 
FlyDeltaJets
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RE: United Equipment Base Strategy?

Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:11 am

Quoting gigneil (Reply 11):
Are they? I see no evidence of them anywhere in the schedule.

There was only 1 a day now there are 2 that overnight at JFK and an additional turn. The reason for the sCO planes to run the P.S. flights is to free up the dedicated PS planes to get the cabin retrofit. The 100 series flight numbers are sCO flights.
The only valid opinions are those based in facts
 
COSPN
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RE: United Equipment Base Strategy?

Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:42 am

At Old CO EWR was isolated so delays would not "rollover" to the rest of the system, but UA is much larger, but the idea is good so problems at one location do not cascade into the rest..
 
tsnamm
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RE: United Equipment Base Strategy?

Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:28 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 7):
The sCO 757s are also showing up on the JFK-LAX PS flights, so sCO crews are making the trip to JFK too.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 16):
Virtually every day there are a few sCO 757s running p.s. Its been so for a few months now.

There has been at least 1 sCO 757 on JFK/LAX since the Sep schedule change...every day but Sat... usually UA161/162...during the holidays we have been getting 2-3 a day out of the 6 LAX segments...looks to be back to the 1 a day now the holiday schedules are over..
 
FlyDeltaJets
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RE: United Equipment Base Strategy?

Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:43 pm

Quoting tsnamm (Reply 24):
looks to be back to the 1 a day now the holiday schedules are over..

There are 3 a day 2 AM and 1 PM turn.
The only valid opinions are those based in facts
 
tsnamm
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RE: United Equipment Base Strategy?

Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:28 pm

Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Reply 25):
There are 3 a day

Yup you're right back to 3 except Sat and Sun then 2...
 
brucek
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RE: United Equipment Base Strategy?

Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:10 pm

Hopefully related to the OP question:

PMUA used to have all of the flight training at Stapleton (the site of the old Denver airport). I'm not sure where the PMCO flight training was located, presumably IAH or EWR? Does anyone know where flight training is done now- and if in multiple locations, are these aircraft-type specific?
 
codc10
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RE: United Equipment Base Strategy?

Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:43 pm

Quoting brucek (Reply 27):
PMUA used to have all of the flight training at Stapleton (the site of the old Denver airport). I'm not sure where the PMCO flight training was located, presumably IAH or EWR? Does anyone know where flight training is done now- and if in multiple locations, are these aircraft-type specific?

For the most part, training is carried out at the respective subsidiaries exactly how they were prior to the merger. That means sUA crews are still trained at DENTK, with sCO training still at IAH.

After the merger, it is unclear how training will be distributed. As I recall, the following sims are at DENTK:

A320
757-200
767-300
767-400
747-400
737 EFIS

and IAH:

737 EFIS
737NG
777
757/767
767-400
787
 
codc10
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RE: United Equipment Base Strategy?

Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:43 pm

Quoting brucek (Reply 27):
PMUA used to have all of the flight training at Stapleton (the site of the old Denver airport). I'm not sure where the PMCO flight training was located, presumably IAH or EWR? Does anyone know where flight training is done now- and if in multiple locations, are these aircraft-type specific?

For the most part, training is carried out at the respective subsidiaries exactly how they were prior to the merger. That means sUA crews are still trained at DENTK, with sCO training still at IAH.

After the merger, it is unclear how training will be distributed. As I recall, the following sims are at DENTK:

A320
757-200
767-300
767-400
747-200
747-400
737 EFIS

and IAH:

737 EFIS
737NG
777
757/767
767-400
787
 
jfk777
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RE: United Equipment Base Strategy?

Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:02 pm

Where are the Newark based 787's. EWR needs them more then any city since UA's longest flights are from Newark.
 
jfk777
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RE: United Equipment Base Strategy?

Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:03 pm

Where are the Newark based 787's. EWR needs them more then any city since UA's longest flights are from Newark.
 
tommy767
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RE: United Equipment Base Strategy?

Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:25 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 31):

EWR got the shaft for the 787 so far -- only to IAH.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
codc10
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RE: United Equipment Base Strategy?

Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:32 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 31):
Where are the Newark based 787's. EWR needs them more then any city since UA's longest flights are from Newark.

The 787-8 has similar range to the 777-200ER with less payload. I think UA would rather wait for the 787-9s before bringing many into EWR. Right now, the 767/777 is the backbone of the longhaul fleet at EWR and UA seems entirely satisfied with that, at least for the coming summer schedule.
 
gigneil
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RE: United Equipment Base Strategy?

Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:11 am

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 30):
Where are the Newark based 787's. EWR needs them more then any city since UA's longest flights are from Newark.

Yeah that doesn't mean that they're going to be putting 787s on those flights.

NS
 
laca773
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Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 7:10 am

RE: United Equipment Base Strategy?

Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:30 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 16):
Virtually every day there are a few sCO 757s running p.s. Its been so for a few months now.

For example on Monday January 7th, 3 of 6 LAX-JFK are on sCO 757s, while 2 of 6 JFK-LAX on are on sCO. Also a non p.s. sUA 757 is running a JFK-LAX leg also.

What will be the size of this subfleet? Do they ever have an a/c upgauge on JFK-LAX/SFO anymore?

So the p.s. market will eventually be history.
 
gigneil
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RE: United Equipment Base Strategy?

Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:06 am

Quoting UA787DEN (Reply 15):
That would be a suckish downgrade for a pax.
Quoting UA787DEN (Reply 15):
PmCO flights didn't use PS, maybe UA doesn't have enough PS configured 757s.
Quoting UA787DEN (Reply 21):
The old PS birds had F, J and Y plus.. The new ones have standard Y and a more normal domestic configuration?

What?

The sCO 757s are in an international configuration - with lie flat J, Y+ and AVOD throughout.

That is the new config of p.s. as well. The lie flat J is much nicer than the existing F on p.s. and the p.s. birds will have more of them.

Quoting laca773 (Reply 35):
What will be the size of this subfleet? Do they ever have an a/c upgauge on JFK-LAX/SFO anymore?

The precise same size it is today, and no not ever and have not since 2003.

Quoting laca773 (Reply 35):
So the p.s. market will eventually be history.

What are you talking about? They're refurbishing the p.s. planes from nose-to-tail and installing great things. like functional wifi, avod throughout, and much, much, much nicer seats.

So... what?

NS
 
UA787DEN
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RE: United Equipment Base Strategy?

Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:32 am

Quoting gigneil (Reply 36):

I didn't know they were redoing the planes. The old PS planes had/have only Y+, IIRC, so for pax downgrading onto a flight with standard Y on an aircraft sub wouldn't have been fun. For F/J, I agree the lie flat is amazing. For Y, the product doesn't get better quite as much. Wifi and AVOD are here, but a few inches of seat pitch and a couple other perm's are gone.
I am quite excited for the new PS birds. Finally, UA Transcon wifi and AVOD. Solid product.

I agree lots of 787s at EWR won't really start until the 789s arrive. Much more fitting for most markets.

United used to really spread out the planes. The 747s had an HNL base, along with the major mainland bases.

For airlines with only one international gateway, consolidating the long haul base to the long haul hub and the short haul base to other hubs might work. For UA with ORD, IAH, EWR, IAD, SFO, LAX, GUM, IAD, and a merger with some overlapping types, it doesn't work. If B6 ever starts that planned Long Haul, my bet is pilots for those planes will be based in only one city (likely JFK.) Their Long Haul ops will be small and consolidated/close.

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