icelandair75w
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Unofficial: Copa Airlines (CM) To BOS

Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:59 pm

Hello All!

I have not found any official news or press releases announcing service, however, I have seen a schedule input into the Amadeus booking system.

CM 718 D PTY BOS 1146 1816 0 10JUL13 02NOV13 73G 5:30
CM 719 D BOS PTY 0954 1428 0 11JUL13 02NOV13 73G 5:34

CM 718 D PTY BOS 1146 1716 0 03NOV13 08MAR14 73G 5:30
CM 719 D BOS PTY 0854 1428 0 03NOV13 08MAR14 73G 5:34

Showing a 1816 arrival, then a ground stop of 15 hours, 38 minutes for a departure at 0954 the following morning back to PTY.

Quite exciting to see another carrier commencing services to BOS! Hope to see a press release sometime soon.
 
BOStonsox
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RE: Unofficial: Copa Airlines (CM) To BOS

Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:38 pm

This would be exciting news, hopefully it will be confirmed soon!
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Avianca
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RE: Unofficial: Copa Airlines (CM) To BOS

Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:40 pm

For sure a great addition to the CM Network!
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SCQ83
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RE: Unofficial: Copa Airlines (CM) To BOS

Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:43 pm

Which is the reason for such a long ground stop? I imagine it is just to reduce connection times in PTY, but isn't there any other way to optimize it? Is this the way CM works in JFK or other stations in the US?
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: Unofficial: Copa Airlines (CM) To BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:01 am

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 3):

With CM at JFK, they have a daytime flight with a 1 hour turnaround (1250-and 1405) and a RON that arrives at 2350 and departs 0905. Similar morning departure time as BOS, but much later night arrival.
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TWA772LR
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RE: Unofficial: Copa Airlines (CM) To BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:10 am

Looks like CM brass are lurkers on a.net!
Good for BOS! It's about time that got some Lat Am service! Now, if we can get CM to IAH or HOU...  Wink

[Edited 2013-01-06 16:11:29]
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Viscount724
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RE: Unofficial: Copa Airlines (CM) To BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:11 am

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 4):
With CM at JFK, they have a daytime flight with a 1 hour turnaround (1250-and 1405) and a RON that arrives at 2350 and departs 0905.

CM's YYZ schedule is very similar to the 2nd JFK flight. Arrives YYZ 2341 and departs 0840.
 
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adamh8297
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RE: Unofficial: Copa Airlines (CM) To BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:58 am

Connections look great to South America!!!
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AM, BA, B6, CO, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WN
 
clrd4t8koff
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RE: Unofficial: Copa Airlines (CM) To BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:36 am

Interesting time to arrive BOS, only to let it sit the next 15.5 hours. Boston's only international terminal, E, isn't that big and arriving around 6pm is heavy European traffic. Gonna have to unload and repark remotely quick. Guess AA dropping their LHR arrivals made some room?
 
alphaomega
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RE: Unofficial: Copa Airlines (CM) To BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:54 am

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Reply 8):
Interesting time to arrive BOS, only to let it sit the next 15.5 hours. Boston's only international terminal, E, isn't that big and arriving around 6pm is heavy European traffic. Gonna have to unload and repark remotely quick. Guess AA dropping their LHR arrivals made some room?

1800 actually isn't too bad for Terminal E...now if they run 1 or 2hrs late thats a different story...
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Unofficial: Copa Airlines (CM) To BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:49 am

Great for BOS but the Latin fares out of BOS are dreadful
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stlgph
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RE: Unofficial: Copa Airlines (CM) To BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:28 am

Quoting alphaomega (Reply 9):

going to be interesting in the summer @ Boston, Terminal E. i believe Icelandair is going to go up to 3 daily.
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icelandair75w
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RE: Unofficial: Copa Airlines (CM) To BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:29 am

This is what I have gathered for next summer for Terminal E:

Aer Lingus - 18x weekly, 14x DUB, 4x SNN
Air France - 2x daily, 1x 747, 1x 777
Alitalia - 1x daily, 332
American - No schedule posted, looks like they dropped CDG/LHR service to BOS completely.
British - 4x daily, 2x 777, 2x 747
Copa Airlines - 1x daily, 737
Delta - 1x daily 757 CDG, 2x daily AMS 1x 332 1x333, 1x daily LHR 767
Iberia - 1x daily 340
Icelandair - 18x weekly 757
Japan Airlines - 1x daily 787
Lufthansa - 2 daily FRA 1x 346 1x343/333, 1x daily MUC 343/346
SATA - Could not figure out their messy schedule, probably 9x weekly as they did last summer with a 313
Sun Country - 13x weekly 737 to MSP....
Swiss - 1x daily 333
TACV - 3x weekly 757
Virgin Atlantic - 1x daily 333


Definitely going to be a busy summer.
 
zrs70
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RE: Unofficial: Copa Airlines (CM) To BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:34 am

Once upon a time, BOS was the second biggest european gateway city. Now, it is dwarfed by others.

Still, while not a lot of depth of flights. the breadth is pretty strong. BOS sees quite a variety of international carriers that one doesn't find at a whole lot of US airports.
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BOStonsox
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RE: Unofficial: Copa Airlines (CM) To BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:28 am

Quoting zrs70 (Reply 13):
Once upon a time, BOS was the second biggest european gateway city. Now, it is dwarfed by others.

That's what deregulation did, IINM, and BOS was one of a small handful of airports where airlines could fly into.

Quoting icelandair75w (Reply 12):
This is what I have gathered for next summer for Terminal E:

You forgot all of the B6 arrivals from AUA, BDA, CUN, GCM, MBJ, PUJ, SXM, STI, and SDQ as well as FL/WN's flights to and from CAK, ATL, BWI, MDW, DEN, MCI, MKE, BNA, and STL. I think that's all of them.

However, there is this, but I don't know what has come of it: http://www.icelandexpress.com/upload...maraaetlun2013_070912english2.pdf.
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MesaFlyGuy
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RE: Unofficial: Copa Airlines (CM) To BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:34 am

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 14):

However, there is this, but I don't know what has come of it: http://www.icelandexpress.com/upload....pdf.

I thought IcelandExpress ceased the USA flights when Astreaus went under?

Quoting icelandair75w (Reply 12):
Aer Lingus - 18x weekly, 14x DUB, 4x SNN

I guess the SNN flights are doing well, weren't they only thrice weekly this past summer?

Quoting icelandair75w (Reply 12):
This is what I have gathered for next summer for Terminal E:

Aer Lingus - 18x weekly, 14x DUB, 4x SNN
Air France - 2x daily, 1x 747, 1x 777
Alitalia - 1x daily, 332
American - No schedule posted, looks like they dropped CDG/LHR service to BOS completely.
British - 4x daily, 2x 777, 2x 747
Copa Airlines - 1x daily, 737
Delta - 1x daily 757 CDG, 2x daily AMS 1x 332 1x333, 1x daily LHR 767
Iberia - 1x daily 340
Icelandair - 18x weekly 757
Japan Airlines - 1x daily 787
Lufthansa - 2 daily FRA 1x 346 1x343/333, 1x daily MUC 343/346
SATA - Could not figure out their messy schedule, probably 9x weekly as they did last summer with a 313
Sun Country - 13x weekly 737 to MSP....
Swiss - 1x daily 333
TACV - 3x weekly 757
Virgin Atlantic - 1x daily 333


Definitely going to be a busy summer.

Doesn't WN also operated out of this terminal as well?
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icelandair75w
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RE: Unofficial: Copa Airlines (CM) To BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:38 am

WN I didn't factor in, as they operate at gates E1A-E1E, which do not interfere with international air carrier operations (domestic only gates).
 
BOStonsox
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RE: Unofficial: Copa Airlines (CM) To BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:59 am

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 15):
I thought IcelandExpress ceased the USA flights when Astreaus went under?

They did, but then WOW Air took over and they have A320s. Iceland Express also leased two A320s. The Iceland Express website has a press release from September announcing flights to BOS, and it is mentioned in other places on their site, but you can't book anything. It's possible they cancelled them, but I would imagine if they did, they would say that they had.
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usflyguy
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RE: Unofficial: Copa Airlines (CM) To BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:06 am

Quoting icelandair75w (Reply 16):
WN I didn't factor in, as they operate at gates E1A-E1E, which do not interfere with international air carrier operations

But the WN/FL passengers do use the same terminal facilities if they desire something other than what's offered in their gate area.
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
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RE: Unofficial: Copa Airlines (CM) To BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:08 am

Quoting icelandair75w (Reply 16):

I didn't know they were domestic only gates that WN used. I guess ya learn something new every day.  
Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 17):

Hmm, that's strange. You'd think they would have announced a cancellation, but who knows.
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icelandair75w
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RE: Unofficial: Copa Airlines (CM) To BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:31 am

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 18):

But the WN/FL passengers do use the same terminal facilities if they desire something other than what's offered in their gate area.

Very true, I was just talking in terms of gate usage/space anyways. It's a given that the terminal is going to be way too crowded but TSA processing times have been good granted them staffing properly which isn't always the case unfortunately...

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 19):

I didn't know they were domestic only gates that WN used. I guess ya learn something new every day.  

Yeah WN/FL lease those gates and areas for their flights only.


The issue that is killing Logan's Terminal E now is the initial expansion plan from yeaaaaars ago that they had introduced. Originally they were supposed to expand the terminal out close to where the American hangar is which would allow for much more gate space..... that never happened.. And now, with the amount of travelling passengers on the rise, and airlines receiving more aircraft and introducing new destinations, Boston is limited on how many they can accommodate. They need to do something soon, as Copa is not the only airline that wants to operate into Boston.
 
alphaomega
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RE: Unofficial: Copa Airlines (CM) To BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:24 pm

Quoting stlgph (Reply 11):

going to be interesting in the summer @ Boston, Terminal E. i believe Icelandair is going to go up to 3 daily.

Not 3 every day, but 18x weekly. Their flights are spread out and the already have 1 in the peak of the terminal rush so it won't hurt the gate space.

Quoting icelandair75w (Reply 20):

The issue that is killing Logan's Terminal E now is the initial expansion plan from yeaaaaars ago that they had introduced. Originally they were supposed to expand the terminal out close to where the American hangar is which would allow for much more gate space..... that never happened.. And now, with the amount of travelling passengers on the rise, and airlines receiving more aircraft and introducing new destinations, Boston is limited on how many they can accommodate. They need to do something soon, as Copa is not the only airline that wants to operate into Boston.

They will have a tough time justifying the $$ to expand - yes the terminal is crowded in the evening, but if you go by at 10am its a ghost town. If they were able to get airlines to round out the schedule they would have an easier time getting federal funding to expand (Massport won't foot the bill on their own). IF EK is going to start BOS and they have a morning flight which I believe they would, they'll get the run of the terminal with JL. Now if we can just get KE to come back...

CM will also help round out the morning with a 10am departure. Their initial schedule was denied landing rights by CBP as they wanted to operate 0100-0500, so looks like CBP won with their schedule (which I think is better for the terminal anyways).
 
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adamh8297
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RE: Unofficial: Copa Airlines (CM) To BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:12 pm

Quoting alphaomega (Reply 21):
Their initial schedule was denied landing rights by CBP as they wanted to operate 0100-0500,

Was the 1:00-5:00 flight leaving BOS or PTY?
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AM, BA, B6, CO, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WN
 
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yellowtail
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RE: Unofficial: Copa Airlines (CM) To BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:52 pm

Quoting icelandair75w (Thread starter):
Quite exciting to see another carrier commencing services to BOS! Hope to see a press release sometime soon.

I see this as more as a preventive move than anything else. Rumors have been rampant for the last 18 months or so that B6 wants to start PTY from both BOS and JFK in 2013.

THis could be designed encourage B6 out of stay out PTY as much as it is to make money.
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adamh8297
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RE: Unofficial: Copa Airlines (CM) To BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:43 pm

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 23):
I see this as more as a preventive move than anything else. Rumors have been rampant for the last 18 months or so that B6 wants to start PTY from both BOS and JFK in 2013.

THis could be designed encourage B6 out of stay out PTY as much as it is to make money.

BOS-PTY is under 25 PDEW but the numbers will go up due to this flight. They would fail at BOS-PTY. B6 would start BOS-SJO or BOS-GUA before PTY.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AM, BA, B6, CO, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WN
 
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yellowtail
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RE: Unofficial: Copa Airlines (CM) To BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:56 pm

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 24):
They would fail at BOS-PTY. B6 would start BOS-SJO or BOS-GUA before PTY.

I am not so sure about that....PTY is booming right now.
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airbazar
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RE: Unofficial: Copa Airlines (CM) To BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:34 pm

Quoting zrs70 (Reply 13):
Once upon a time, BOS was the second biggest european gateway city. Now, it is dwarfed by others.

It still is the largest non-hub European gateway. Heck, BOS sees more TATL airlines than even some large hubs. Not too shaby.

Quoting icelandair75w (Reply 20):
And now, with the amount of travelling passengers on the rise, and airlines receiving more aircraft and introducing new destinations, Boston is limited on how many they can accommodate. They need to do something soon, as Copa is not the only airline that wants to operate into Boston.

Their biggest mistake was to stick WN in terminal E but nevertheless, terminal E is only busy during the peak TATL schedule hours, and those flights are less likely to increase. I really don't see anyone else from Europe starting service or increasing service to Boston. There is plenty of space at terminal E for Central/South America and Asia operations as evidenced by JAL's and Copa's schedule.
Also, don't forget that AA, DL, and B6 ops at terminal E are only for arrivals so they don't sit at the gates for very long at all.
 
clrd4t8koff
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RE: Unofficial: Copa Airlines (CM) To BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:11 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 26):
Quoting zrs70 (Reply 13):
Once upon a time, BOS was the second biggest european gateway city. Now, it is dwarfed by others.

Quoting airbazar,reply=26:

It still is the largest non-hub European gateway. Heck, BOS sees more TATL airlines than even some large hubs. Not too shaby.

I was thinking the exact same thing. When looking at the top 10 MSA's in the US http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Metropolitan_Statistical_Areas, Boston is a healthy #10, yet offers more non-stop European destinations than some of the others whom are larger - Dallas, Houston specifically. Both DFW and IAH are huge hubs for two global carriers. I'd say BOS is doing quite well as an airport with no significant feed/connections.
 
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adamh8297
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RE: Unofficial: Copa Airlines (CM) To BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:21 pm

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 25):
I am not so sure about that....PTY is booming right now.

PTY is booming... as a CM hub... doesn't mean it would make a good B6 spoke.

2011 NYC (JFK/EWR/LGA) Traffic 92,921 = 127 PDEW

-Market Currently well served by 2x CM JFK-PTY and 1x UA EWR-PTY. B6 could possibly compete in the market but I'm not 100 percent sure.

2011 BOS (BOS/MHT) Traffic 11,430 = > 16 PDEW (I overestimated a bit previously)

-The traffic just isn't there for a B6 BOS-PTY flight. CM is the only airline that could serve this route due to the "Hub of the Americas" BOS-PTY is also as long as BOS-PHX so its basically a long-thin transcon route.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AM, BA, B6, CO, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WN
 
clrd4t8koff
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RE: Unofficial: Copa Airlines (CM) To BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:51 pm

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 28):
PTY is booming... as a CM hub... doesn't mean it would make a good B6 spoke.

2011 NYC (JFK/EWR/LGA) Traffic 92,921 = 127 PDEW

-Market Currently well served by 2x CM JFK-PTY and 1x UA EWR-PTY. B6 could possibly compete in the market but I'm not 100 percent sure.

2011 BOS (BOS/MHT) Traffic 11,430 = > 16 PDEW (I overestimated a bit previously)

-The traffic just isn't there for a B6 BOS-PTY flight. CM is the only airline that could serve this route due to the "Hub of the Americas" BOS-PTY is also as long as BOS-PHX so its basically a long-thin transcon route.

How long has CM & UA been flying non-stop from the NYC area to PTY? A few years is my guess, which is why the numbers are so much larger. Given that the NYC msa is obviously MUCH larger than BOS, over time CM will establish the BOS market and it will grow. Will it ever be 3x daily like NYC see's? Probably not. But I could see this upgrading to a 738 after a while.
 
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STT757
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RE: Unofficial: Copa Airlines (CM) To BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:59 pm

Very surprising, shows how much CM and Panama in general have grown. I would have expected many other routes before BOS, routes such as:

MSY, ATL, TPA, SFO, SEA, DFW

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Reply 29):

How long has CM & UA been flying non-stop from the NYC area to PTY?

UA inherited EWR-PTY from CO who was operating the route since the mid 1990s. CO inherited the route from EA who was operating JFK-PTY since the early '80s.
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yellowtail
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RE: Unofficial: Copa Airlines (CM) To BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:02 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 30):
MSY, ATL, TPA, SFO, SEA, DFW

I agree I would have expected to see TPA (with its education connections) and MSY long before BOS.

Don't think SEA is doable n/s.
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SCQ83
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RE: Unofficial: Copa Airlines (CM) To BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:19 pm

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Reply 27):
I was thinking the exact same thing. When looking at the top 10 MSA's in the US http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Metropolitan_Statistical_Areas, Boston is a healthy #10, yet offers more non-stop European destinations than some of the others whom are larger - Dallas, Houston specifically. Both DFW and IAH are huge hubs for two global carriers. I'd say BOS is doing quite well as an airport with no significant feed/connections.

There are a few reasons for that.

Despite BOS is not a hub for any major airline, it does not mean there are no connections (interlining). In that sense, BOS has a great location for Europe, being the shortest flight to Europe from the US, and in a good location to transfer anywhere West or South (which basically is all of the US) without a detour. While BOS is not a good location to transfer within the US (the reason for not being anyone's hub), it is generally a good location for US-BOS-EU.

BOS being a comparatively shorter flight to/from Europe, makes it easier for European routes to make them profitable.

Not having a dominant airline (such as IAH or DFW) also make additional airlines more keen to get into the market.

And the nature of business traffic in Boston (healthcare, research, education) probably is more linked to "traditional" destinations like Europe. Even "ethnic" traffic is more linked to Europe (see BOS-SNN or SATA).

DFW/IAH might not have so many European destinations (again, it is a much longer flight, an extreme case is KEF-BOS VS an hypotetical KEF-IAH), but they have direct links to the likes of GRU, GIG, SCL, LOS, ICN or DOH (oil, manufacturing, a more diverse VFR...)
 
clrd4t8koff
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RE: Unofficial: Copa Airlines (CM) To BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:23 pm

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 32):
DFW/IAH might not have so many European destinations (again, it is a much longer flight, an extreme case is KEF-BOS VS an hypotetical KEF-IAH), but they have direct links to the likes of GRU, GIG, SCL, LOS, ICN or DOH (oil, manufacturing, a more diverse VFR...)

Would be helpful to stay on topic. My post was in regards to European and only European flights. I, and everyone else, is well aware both DFW and IAH have connections to South America, Asia and the Middle East. Give BOS another 12 months and I'm certain you'll see both DOH and ICN announced.

Does DFW or IAH even have non-stops to ZRH? FCO? Heck, forget about KEF, ZRH is a fairly large financial center and popular tourist destination in Europe.
 
SCQ83
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RE: Unofficial: Copa Airlines (CM) To BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:09 pm

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Reply 34):
Does DFW or IAH even have non-stops to ZRH? FCO? Heck, forget about KEF, ZRH is a fairly large financial center and popular tourist destination in Europe.

Boston area is one of the two (along with the Bay Area) world's largest biotech clusters. Switzerland is home to many pharma companies. For instance, Novartis, one of the largest pharma companies in the world, has a campus in Mass Avenue next to MIT (and they are expanding with a huge new building). Also Switzerland is home to some of the leading universities in Europe (notably ETH Zurich), so that certainly creates further sinergies with some institutions in Cambridge. Anecdotically (or not really) the Swiss consulate is in Cambridge, steps away from Harvard Square.

So that is the main and first reason for your ZRH-BOS flight: biotech, research and higher education in Cambridge.
 
clrd4t8koff
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RE: Unofficial: Copa Airlines (CM) To BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:39 pm

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 34):
Boston area is one of the two (along with the Bay Area) world's largest biotech clusters. Switzerland is home to many pharma companies. For instance, Novartis, one of the largest pharma companies in the world, has a campus in Mass Avenue next to MIT (and they are expanding with a huge new building). Also Switzerland is home to some of the leading universities in Europe (notably ETH Zurich), so that certainly creates further sinergies with some institutions in Cambridge. Anecdotically (or not really) the Swiss consulate is in Cambridge, steps away from Harvard Square.

So that is the main and first reason for your ZRH-BOS flight: biotech, research and higher education in Cambridge.

Listen, I appreciate all of the obvious points you keep making. I live in Boston - I'm very well aware of the biotech, rt.128 tech belt, multiple higher education institutions, etc. In fact, I think most people are aware of all that. The point in my initial post was in response to this:

Quoting zrs70 (Reply 13):

Once upon a time, BOS was the second biggest european gateway city. Now, it is dwarfed by others.

BOS will always be smaller to Europe in comparison to places like JFK & ORD. Even IAD has more European flights simply because it's the nations capital, but it sure beats other larger Metro area's which is why I used DFW and IAH. Dwarfed isn't the word to describe the amount of European flights at BOS. That analogy WOULD apply to something like - RDU is dwarfed by BOS in terms of flights to Europe.
 
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AmricanShamrok
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RE: Unofficial: Copa Airlines (CM) To BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:45 pm

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 15):
I guess the SNN flights are doing well, weren't they only thrice weekly this past summer?

SNN-BOS was 4x weekly last summer too (albeit operating Tue, Thu, Sat, Sun). This summer it will operate Mon, Wed, Fri, Sun.

Truth be told, EI could probably fill a daily A332 from SNN (as they have done in the past) but this would eat up yields and would be at the expense of EI's SNN-JFK route.
 
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RE: Unofficial: Copa Airlines (CM) To BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:56 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 26):
Their biggest mistake was to stick WN in terminal E

Putting WN in Terminal E isn't a mistake when one considers that WN uses the domestic-only gates E1A-E1E. Having those gates available would do nothing to alleviate the gate shortage at peak times. Once the new United gates are open in Terminal B, however, it might be possible to have the AF and AZ flights depart from Terminal A thus enabling more convenient connections from DL. With preclearance being available at DUB & SNN, it would also be feasible for EI to use a different terminal at BOS.

Quoting icelandair75w (Thread starter):
Showing a 1816 arrival, then a ground stop of 15 hours, 38 minutes for a departure at 0954 the following morning back to PTY.

Seems like awfully poor utilization for a 73G. But I guess if they're limited by hub bank arrival/departure times, it is what it is.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 30):
I would have expected many other routes before BOS, routes such as:

MSY, ATL, TPA, SFO, SEA, DFW

ATL would be a challenge with DL already offering ATL-PTY. SFO is probably just outside the economic range of the 73G given winds on the westbound leg and likely delays at SFO. SEA can't be done non-stop with any reasonable payload. PTY is very well-located for connections from the U.S. East Coast to South America.
 
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AmricanShamrok
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RE: Unofficial: Copa Airlines (CM) To BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:33 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 37):
With preclearance being available at DUB & SNN, it would also be feasible for EI to use a different terminal at BOS.

Don't forget the earlier summer DUB-BOS flight does not preclear due to congestion at DUB so if EI does move terminals it would still have to have at least one daily arrival into Terminal E...unless they find some way of preclearing it at DUB.
 
2travel2know2
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RE: Unofficial: Copa Airlines (CM) To BOS

Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:04 am

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 22):
Was the 1:00-5:00 flight leaving BOS or PTY?

Flights would arrive and depart between 0100 and 0500h, that's what it meant

Quoting ScottB (Reply 37):
Seems like awfully poor utilization for a 73G. But I guess if they're limited by hub bank arrival/departure times, it is what it is.

Poor utilization to BOS not having Port of entry staff to work 0100-0500h.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 30):
Very surprising, shows how much CM and Panama in general have grown. I would have expected many other routes before BOS, routes such as:

MSY, ATL, TPA, SFO, SEA, DFW

I'd have added FLL, HOU (if they get an in-terminal F.I.S.) and maybe even JAX.
For some reason I find STL becoming a CM destination candidate someday.
If US remains in Star Alliance, then US PHX-PTY, no need for CM to fly to PHX.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 31):
Don't think SEA is doable n/s.

I'd guess if CM wants SEA, CM will fly the route via GUA.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 37):
ATL would be a challenge with DL already offering ATL-PTY. SFO is probably just outside the economic range of the 73G given winds on the westbound leg and likely delays at SFO. SEA can't be done non-stop with any reasonable payload.

Agree with ATL, CM to ATL will be very doubtful, and PTY-ATL if flown with E190, wouldn't be the kind of product CM may want for ATL.
IMHO, DFW would stand a better chance to see CM before ATL.
SFO may be flow with a B737-700 with sky interior and a configuration with a few less passengers than the standard CM B737-700 (more business class, less economy). But it's true that there'll be a few times a CM B737-700 might have to make tech-stops en-route to SFO, but from an operational or passenger point of view, flying a B737-700 from PTY to SFO isn't as bad as people think.
CM B737 delivery flights are flown non-stop from Boeing field to PTY, albeit with 50-60 or so passengers. If CM wants to serve SEA, very likely GUA would love that flight to be routed to their airport. Mexico wouldn't give CM 5th freedom traffic rights.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
alphaomega
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RE: Unofficial: Copa Airlines (CM) To BOS

Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:39 am

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 22):
Quoting alphaomega (Reply 21):
Their initial schedule was denied landing rights by CBP as they wanted to operate 0100-0500,

Was the 1:00-5:00 flight leaving BOS or PTY?

Sorry - times are through BOS, so 0100 arrival and 0500 departure.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 26):
Also, don't forget that AA, DL, and B6 ops at terminal E are only for arrivals so they don't sit at the gates for very long at all.

DL sits at Terminal E forever because Massport allows them to clean and de-cater at Terminal E before towing. Winter is OK, but the summer schedules cause problems with this, so forcing them to tow to A earlier would help with freeing up gate space at peak times.
 
icelandair75w
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RE: Unofficial: Copa Airlines (CM) To BOS

Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:14 am

Quoting alphaomega (Reply 40):
DL sits at Terminal E forever because Massport allows them to clean and de-cater at Terminal E before towing. Winter is OK, but the summer schedules cause problems with this, so forcing them to tow to A earlier would help with freeing up gate space at peak times.

It's not that Massport allows them, it is that USCBP required them to do so due to the international cleaning/trash/catering. They are required to rid the aircraft of all international trash and whatnot before they are allowed to leave the international terminal. A feasible alternative would be to tow the aircraft to North Cargo for cleaning after they have deplaned the aircraft but that might also be an issue for all I know.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 39):
Poor utilization to BOS not having Port of entry staff to work 0100-0500h.

Agreed but they do not staff that period unless there is an irregular operation anticipated i.e. a scheduled charter or known delay of a scheduled flight.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 37):
Once the new United gates are open in Terminal B, however, it might be possible to have the AF and AZ flights depart from Terminal A thus enabling more convenient connections from DL. With preclearance being available at DUB & SNN, it would also be feasible for EI to use a different terminal at BOS.

When the UA gates are open in Terminal B, the rumors that run around the airport (again, rumors) is that WN/FL will move to the PMCO gates at Terminal A, and jetBlue will take the remaining Terminal C gates. Another rumor is that they will make gates E1A-E1E accessible from both the Terminal E security checkpoints and Terminal C checkpoint, making it possible for B6 to utilize the E1A-E1E gates as well. Wouldn't surprise me with the current growth of B6 in BOS over the past few years.

I've also heard (albeit it may not be true) that foreign registered aircraft (non-N numbered) are not permitted to operate from any terminal other than Terminal E. I'm not sure how that makes sense, as AC is pre-cleared and operates their C- registered aircraft from Terminal B. Another thing that would not allow AF/AZ to operate at Terminal A is the obvious lack of a CBP FIS at that terminal. Originally I've heard they wanted to open a small FIS for Delta's flights in Terminal A but I highly doubt that would ever happen.


Regardless of anything, deviating from the original plan of the expansion doesn't particularly make sense. They stopped the expansion for whatever reason however, which doesn't make sense to me. It does get extremely busy at the terminal in the evening, and expanding would rid the tenants and users of the terminal from having to hold on 15R or somewhere else on the field for the next gate to become available. This past summer I've seen gate holds of up to an hour! Quite absurd, and one would think if that was repetitive they'd get the hint that they need to do something about it.

On a secondary note, carriers from Asia and South America as well as the Middle East should definitely jump on the opportunity to operate to Boston where the morning gate usage is basically only JL and SY (FI in the summer time). I feel that these airlines do have an opportunity for success with an operation in Boston, regardless of the JFK being so nearby.
 
SCQ83
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RE: Unofficial: Copa Airlines (CM) To BOS

Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:21 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 30):
Very surprising, shows how much CM and Panama in general have grown. I would have expected many other routes before BOS, routes such as:

MSY, ATL, TPA, SFO, SEA, DFW

Not that surprising... BOS is probably the largest urban area in the US without a connection to Latin America. Also CM can serve the market with a narrowbody, so fewer seats to fill.

ATL, SFO or DFW are major markets but already more competition. MSY or TPA are much smaller markets.
 
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adamh8297
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RE: Unofficial: Copa Airlines (CM) To BOS

Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:05 pm

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 42):
ATL, SFO or DFW are major markets but already more competition. MSY or TPA are much smaller markets.

Wouldn't UA be better off serving SFO-PTY with a 757?
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AM, BA, B6, CO, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WN
 
2travel2know2
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RE: Unofficial: Copa Airlines (CM) To BOS

Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:28 pm

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 43):
Wouldn't UA be better off serving SFO-PTY with a 757?

Yes.
Specially if UA schedule matches hub banks at SFO and PTY
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
airbazar
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RE: Unofficial: Copa Airlines (CM) To BOS

Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:54 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 37):
Putting WN in Terminal E isn't a mistake when one considers that WN uses the domestic-only gates E1A-E1E.

They're in the same terminal. It would be a lot cheaper to convert those gates to international or multi-use gates than it is to build an extension to terminal E to the north in order to accomodate growth. So in that regard it was a mistake. That's 5 potential international gates right there with minimal investment.

Quoting icelandair75w (Reply 41):
When the UA gates are open in Terminal B, the rumors that run around the airport (again, rumors) is that WN/FL will move to the PMCO gates at Terminal A, and jetBlue will take the remaining Terminal C gates. Another rumor is that they will make gates E1A-E1E accessible from both the Terminal E security checkpoints and Terminal C checkpoint, making it possible for B6 to utilize the E1A-E1E gates as well. Wouldn't surprise me with the current growth of B6 in BOS over the past few years.

This make a whole lot of sense but then again, I'll believe it when I see it. We are moving in that direction though so there's hope.
 
jcarv
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RE: Unofficial: Copa Airlines (CM) To BOS

Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:32 pm

I agree with airbazar!
 
zrs70
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RE: Unofficial: Copa Airlines (CM) To BOS

Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:40 pm

Quoting icelandair75w (Reply 41):
I've also heard (albeit it may not be true) that foreign registered aircraft (non-N numbered) are not permitted to operate from any terminal other than Terminal E. I'm not sure how that makes sense, as AC is pre-cleared and operates their C- registered aircraft from Terminal B. Another thing that would not allow AF/AZ to operate at Terminal A is the obvious lack of a CBP FIS at that terminal. Originally I've heard they wanted to open a small FIS for Delta's flights in Terminal A but I highly doubt that would ever happen.

Perhaps this is a new(er) development?

In the past 20-25 years, I recall the following:

Virgin departing from B
Sabena departing from B and C
Alitalia departing from C
17 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2016
 
ScottB
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RE: Unofficial: Copa Airlines (CM) To BOS

Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:49 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 45):
It would be a lot cheaper to convert those gates to international or multi-use gates than it is to build an extension to terminal E to the north in order to accomodate growth. So in that regard it was a mistake. That's 5 potential international gates right there with minimal investment.

I think you seriously underestimate the cost of converting those gates to support international service. Also, the real estate, with E1A-E1E being inside the curve of the terminal structures, would never be able to support five international widebody gates there. WN's aircraft are already parked pretty tightly at those gates and those are just 737's. E1E probably can't take anything larger than a 757 due to the proximity of C-11 behind it. At best, two or three widebody gates could fit in that space -- and it would require some serious reconstruction. Might as well just extend the terminal in the other direction as the master plan indicated.

Quoting icelandair75w (Reply 41):
Another thing that would not allow AF/AZ to operate at Terminal A is the obvious lack of a CBP FIS at that terminal. Originally I've heard they wanted to open a small FIS for Delta's flights in Terminal A but I highly doubt that would ever happen.

AF & AZ (and probably VS in future) would operate at Terminal A just as DL operates its international flights -- arrivals at Terminal A with the aircraft then towed over to A for departures. I agree that a better solution would be for a CBP station at Terminal A as well, with DL operating four daily European arrivals in the summer. Consolidating AF, AZ & VS with DL at Terminal A with a CBP facility would allow for eight daily turns to be offloaded from Terminal E.

Quoting icelandair75w (Reply 41):
When the UA gates are open in Terminal B, the rumors that run around the airport (again, rumors) is that WN/FL will move to the PMCO gates at Terminal A, and jetBlue will take the remaining Terminal C gates.

My impression was that the whole point of building the expansion/connector between the halves of Terminal B was to free up the UA pier of Terminal C for B6. I'm not sure that the 4 mainline PMCO gates at Terminal A would be sufficient for the combined WN/FL operation, though. The RJ gates at A9-A12 aren't of any use to WN.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 39):
I'd have added FLL, HOU (if they get an in-terminal F.I.S.) and maybe even JAX.

I doubt CM would add PTY-HOU; I doubt there's enough demand from Houston to justify service to both airports from PTY and the HOU service would struggle in the face of the Star hub-to-hub service between PTY & IAH. Moreover, it seems that UA is very sensitive about competition at HOU...
 
deltairlines
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RE: Unofficial: Copa Airlines (CM) To BOS

Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:04 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 48):
I'm not sure that the 4 mainline PMCO gates at Terminal A would be sufficient for the combined WN/FL operation, though. The RJ gates at A9-A12 aren't of any use to WN.

They have about 28 daily departures (combined) out of BOS. Only time four gates would present an issue (under the current schedule) is in the morning push.