sxf24
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Hawaiian (HA) Signs MOU To Buy A321 NEO

Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:15 pm

In a major departure from existing strategy, an MoU for 16 narrowbody aircraft has been signed. No word if this will impact A330 or A350 deliveries or change the west coast network.

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/da...0465913000877/a13-2251_1ex99d1.htm
 
G500
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RE: Hawaiian (HA) Signs MOU To Buy A321 NEO

Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:25 pm

So basically Hawaiian plans to fly to thin U.S main-land markets.... Maybe SLC, Tucson, Oakland?
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Hawaiian (HA) Signs MOU To Buy A321 NEO

Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:29 pm

Quoting g500 (Reply 1):
Maybe SLC, Tucson, Oakland

Why was Anchorage the first route which came to mind?  
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flyby519
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RE: Hawaiian (HA) Signs MOU To Buy A321 NEO

Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:52 pm

Maybe they are going for frequency in large markets? Hourly shuttle service to LAX/SFO from HNL?

A preemptive strike against VX and WN?

[Edited 2013-01-07 05:54:37]
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enilria
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RE: Hawaiian (HA) Signs MOU To Buy A321 NEO

Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:15 pm

Quoting sxf24 (Thread starter):
No word if this will impact A330 or A350 deliveries or change the west coast network.

It's definitely for West Coast. It's a bit risky because the existing A321 can't make it, so they are depending on the guarantees from Airbus that this plane will make it. It is so risky because there is really nowhere else to fly it if it turns out that West Coast is too far. The A320 can't even make it now.
 
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yellowtail
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RE: Hawaiian (HA) Signs MOU To Buy A321 NEO

Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:18 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 4):
It's definitely for West Coast. It's a bit risky because the existing A321 can't make it, so they are depending on the guarantees from Airbus that this plane will make it. It is so risky because there is really nowhere else to fly it if it turns out that West Coast is too far. The A320 can't even make it now.

For sure they have some perfomrance guarantee for Airbus that if it turns out the plane can't make it, they don't have to take it.
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ben175
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RE: Hawaiian (HA) Signs MOU To Buy A321 NEO

Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:25 pm

Fantastic news. The A321 will look amazing in HA's livery.

[Edited 2013-01-07 06:26:21]
 
qqflyboy
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RE: Hawaiian (HA) Signs MOU To Buy A321 NEO

Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:34 pm

So, perhaps it won't be long before we see an order for A319s for inter-island ops. That would give them complete commonality and lower operating costs. And I'm sure they'd have no problem on a trade-in deal with Airbus for the 717s. I'm not suggesting the 717s need to go, but I could see HA making the case for their early departure. And DL would probably suck those 717s right up. Hmm...
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ceo@afg
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RE: Hawaiian (HA) Signs MOU To Buy A321 NEO

Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:44 pm

It does look great in HAs colors, alreday one of the most beautiful liveries out there. Check image at Flightglobal.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...-signs-mou-for-16-a321neos-380720/
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enilria
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RE: Hawaiian (HA) Signs MOU To Buy A321 NEO

Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:48 pm

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 5):
For sure they have some perfomrance guarantee for Airbus that if it turns out the plane can't make it, they don't have to take it.

It is rare that the guarantee is to take the planes back. Usually it is just a cash offset. The cash will help little in this case.
 
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yellowtail
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RE: Hawaiian (HA) Signs MOU To Buy A321 NEO

Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:55 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 9):
It is rare that the guarantee is to take the planes back. Usually it is just a cash offset. The cash will help little in this case.

Yes, if the plane can't make it to the mainland, maybe Airbus will build an airport off the california coast as compensation 
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hiflyeras
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RE: Hawaiian (HA) Signs MOU To Buy A321 NEO

Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:58 pm

Sounds like they're getting nervous about AS, G4, WS and potentially others (VX and WN?) siphoning away traffic. Not sure what markets these a/c are intended for. By 2017, AS and G4 will easily have any and all west coast-Hawaii thin-medium markets covered.
 
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redzeppelin
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RE: Hawaiian (HA) Signs MOU To Buy A321 NEO

Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:59 pm

Could they base these on the mainland and use them to provide feed to their wide bodies? Maybe expand their WB schedule at stations like LAS & OAK, then use the 321s to feed those flights with mid-con and trans-con connections? Just a thought...
 
queb
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RE: Hawaiian (HA) Signs MOU To Buy A321 NEO

Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:00 pm

"...the A321neo will seat approximately 190 passengers in a two-class configuration (First and Coach) and has a range of 3,650 nautical miles. The aircraft will offer the more comfortable seat widths found in the twin-aisle Airbus A330."

http://investor.hawaiianairlines.com...-newsArticle&ID=1771622&highlight=
 
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RE: Hawaiian (HA) Signs MOU To Buy A321 NEO

Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:02 pm

Quoting g500 (Reply 1):
So basically Hawaiian plans to fly to thin U.S main-land markets.... Maybe SLC, Tucson, Oakland?
Quoting g500 (Reply 1):
Why was Anchorage the first route which came to mind?
Quoting flyby519 (Reply 3):
Maybe they are going for frequency in large markets? Hourly shuttle service to LAX/SFO from HNL?

  
All good guesses. It also frees up A330s and A350s for international flying.

Quoting qqflyboy (Reply 7):
So, perhaps it won't be long before we see an order for A319s for inter-island ops

I think theyd have the same problems as AQ's 733s and 734s wit the CFM engines.
 
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RE: Hawaiian (HA) Signs MOU To Buy A321 NEO

Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:09 pm

Quoting g500 (Reply 1):
So basically Hawaiian plans to fly to thin U.S main-land markets

Watch out Alaska; Hawaiian are coming for your market to the islands.   
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RE: Hawaiian (HA) Signs MOU To Buy A321 NEO

Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:09 pm

My Brother and I was just talking about this 3 weeks ago. There were rumors running around the hangar in HNL that HAL was looking at a Narrow body for some long thin routes. He and I were thinking a 737 order, so they could get them in service earlier, but I guess the winner is the A321NEO. Congrats to Airbus.
 
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RE: Hawaiian (HA) Signs MOU To Buy A321 NEO

Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:09 pm

You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
airbazar
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RE: Hawaiian (HA) Signs MOU To Buy A321 NEO

Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:17 pm

Sounds like an "incentive" to cancel the A358 order   
All kidding aside, I bet these will replace most domestic 767 routes.
 
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RE: Hawaiian (HA) Signs MOU To Buy A321 NEO

Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:30 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 4):
It is so risky because there is really nowhere else to fly it if it turns out that West Coast is too far. The A320 can't even make it now.

Why would an airline buy an aircraft if it thought it couldn't perform well on the intended routes? I am surprised at the aircraft choice, given the long over water stretch, but I'm guessing an airline fleet manager has done his homework with greater depth than I just have.

Quoting Ben175 (Reply 6):
Fantastic news. The A321 will look amazing in HA's livery.

Absolutely! Every airline should have a load of them.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
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RE: Hawaiian (HA) Signs MOU To Buy A321 NEO

Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:34 pm

Quoting flyby519 (Reply 3):
A preemptive strike against VX and WN?
Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 11):
Sounds like they're getting nervous about AS, G4, WS and potentially others (VX and WN?) siphoning away traffic.

   Smart move, and yes I'd say they're feeling the mounting pressure from AS, G4, WN, etc.

Straight from the press release: "With its slightly smaller size we'll be able to open new markets that are not viable for wide-body service, while also being able to augment service on existing routes to the West Coast of North America."
 
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RE: Hawaiian (HA) Signs MOU To Buy A321 NEO

Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:37 pm

I remember our HQ telling us that on a 5-6 hour flight, the A321 had the best seat mile costs in the fleet. The A321NEO can only be even better! In such a price sensitive market (where a wide-body edge is irrelevant), I think this is an excellent decision on the part of HA.

In spite of what a lot of people think, the present A321 can fly SFO-HNL, with two ACTs under normal conditions. For fun one day, I ran the numbers between flights. It has quite a bit more range than the A320. (And less than the A319). I don't doubt therefore that the A321NEO will cover the mission HA sees.
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RE: Hawaiian (HA) Signs MOU To Buy A321 NEO

Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:45 pm

Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 12):
Could they base these on the mainland and use them to provide feed to their wide bodies?

Okay. I just read the press release where it indicates that they are intended for flights to the islands. I still wonder if they might try them on some one-stop routes to inland and eastern markets. Or, if the 321s allow more non-stop flights from the mainland to secondary HA destinations (OGG, LIH, KOA, ITO), could it reduce the inter-island demand enough that they might move some 717s to the mainland to run feeder ops?

[Edited 2013-01-07 07:46:29]
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: Hawaiian (HA) Signs MOU To Buy A321 NEO

Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:51 pm

Does anybody know why HA went with Airbus and not Boeing? Why didn't they go with the 737-900ER, for example? HA had previously been a Boeing customer before buying the A330s and A350s.
 
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RE: Hawaiian (HA) Signs MOU To Buy A321 NEO

Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:53 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 4):
It's a bit risky because the existing A321 can't make it,

Can you please explain why and give sources ? I am a little bit confused here : the Airbus website shows that a regular A321 based in HNL can definetely reach the US West Coast http://www.airbus.com/aircraftfamili...craft/a320family/a321/performance/

With an extra 500 NM range for the NEO it should be more than enough under any circumstances.
 
queb
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RE: Hawaiian (HA) Signs MOU To Buy A321 NEO

Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:09 pm

A321 ceo nominal range from Honolulu:

http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/1642/a321.png
source: Airbus website
 
erj
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RE: Hawaiian (HA) Signs MOU To Buy A321 NEO

Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:12 pm

Will this be the first ETOPS A321 by any carrier?
 
pennphila
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RE: Hawaiian (HA) Signs MOU To Buy A321 NEO

Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:15 pm

Very happy to hear this for HA. I sure they will use them for the smaller markets. Maybe start a west coast to non HNL flight. Or mainland east to west coast sort of thing, then on to Hawaii.

Buying a A321neo will open things up for them. Wouldn't shock me if the bought a A319 or something for training reasons.
 
Italianflyer
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RE: Hawaiian (HA) Signs MOU To Buy A321 NEO

Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:16 pm

Makes me wonder if they will start some p2p Micronesia and Marshall Island flying to give former Air Mike some competition. Based on a short search of UA fares I'd bet the margins are solid.
 
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RE: Hawaiian (HA) Signs MOU To Buy A321 NEO

Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:18 pm

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 10):

So you don't think they understand what range the plane has? Just usual Airbus bad mouthing. Get over it please.
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RE: Hawaiian (HA) Signs MOU To Buy A321 NEO

Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:22 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 4):
It's a bit risky because the existing A321 can't make it, so they are depending on the guarantees from Airbus that this plane will make it.

For the A321neo to not be able to make Hawaii, it would have to fail on its promise in a truly spectacular way -- one that would have consequences for Airbus well beyond just a Hawaiian order. The A321neo is supposed to have a nominal range about 350 nm longer than that of the current 737-800, which does Hawaii flights every day (albeit with not a lot of range to spare).

I think this is a great (if obvious) move for HA and portends a lot of potential growth.

Quoting queb (Reply 25):
A321 ceo nominal range from Honolulu:

Nominal range has little to do with reality.

When you add headwinds and required reserves (which can be quite high for Hawaii service owing to lack of suitable diversion airports), the current A321 is just a bit short of being able to do West Coast-Hawaii consistently with a reasonable payload. The A321neo will add enough range that it will be no problem.

There is a reason US (for instance) hangs on to a few 757s for Hawaii routes even though it operates a huge and growing A321 fleet.

[Edited 2013-01-07 08:23:28]
 
bobnwa
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RE: Hawaiian (HA) Signs MOU To Buy A321 NEO

Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:22 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 23):
Why didn't they go with the 737-900ER, for example?

I would guess ths HA decided the A321 was a better aircraft for its planed use.
 
jetsetter629
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RE: Hawaiian (HA) Signs MOU To Buy A321 NEO

Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:30 pm

Or maybe even open mainland flights from KOA and LIH...
 
BeachBoy
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RE: Hawaiian (HA) Signs MOU To Buy A321 NEO

Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:36 pm

I've been wondering why they haven't done this for years. Despite their public statements to the contrary, I wonder if HA regrets not getting a similar aircraft (738, 752) when they first transitioned to 763s. Might have prevented AS from developing its Hawaii market.

I anticipate that these aircraft are gonna be perfect for all current OGG routes (OGG-SEA/SJC/OAK/LAX and restarting PDX/SAN), to open new West Coast routes from HNL (BLI/YVR, ANC, ONT, LGB), and connect the dots from existing cities to OGG/KOA/LIH (LAX-KOA/LIH, SFO-OGG/KOA/LIH, etc.).

I wonder what the A321neo takeoff performance will be because of the short runways at OGG and LIH. I know the NW 753s were restricted on OGG-SEA (despite being an eastbound flight), but UA currently runs SFO/LAX-OGG on 753s now so maybe it's an issue of PW vs. RR engines. If it has good takeoff performance maybe airports like SNA and BUR may also be possible.

As a Hawaii resident it's amazing how in just over the past few years I can now pretty much fly HA exclusively for most of my travel needs--West Coast, East Coast, and Asia.
 
roseflyer
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RE: Hawaiian (HA) Signs MOU To Buy A321 NEO

Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:42 pm

I think this is an awesome opportunity. They are about a decade too late since AS has been cherry picking the small markets to Hawaii for a few years. AS keeps expanding, so I wonder how much of the market will be left, or if HA is willing to go head to head against AS. That will be an interesting battle.

It is good to see an airline commit to the extended range of the A321 NEO. I wonder how far inland the airplane can go before it will start having to block off seats. I’m curious if it will be able to fly to Arizona, Nevada, Utah, Alberta, etc or if it will be restricted to only Washington, Oregon, California, British Columbia and Alaska. And no, the nominal range charts that have been shared as of now are not good enough. I’d like to see payload range charts to reflected the 190 seat configuration if anyone has those.

Many of the smaller markets have shorter runways, so I would have thought the A320 NEO would have been a better choice for the runways at SNA, BUR, OGG, LIH, etc. There's no way a MTOW A321 NEO will get off those runways.

[Edited 2013-01-07 08:54:25]
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seabosdca
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RE: Hawaiian (HA) Signs MOU To Buy A321 NEO

Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:44 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 23):
Why didn't they go with the 737-900ER, for example?

Two reasons come to mind:

1) Training commonality with their A330 fleet, whereas they've never operated 737s; and
2) They will want to serve a number of short fields, and the A321 has better field performance than the 737-900ER.
 
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RE: Hawaiian (HA) Signs MOU To Buy A321 NEO

Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:47 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 23):
Does anybody know why HA went with Airbus and not Boeing? Why didn't they go with the 737-900ER, for example? HA had previously been a Boeing customer before buying the A330s and A350s.

For widebodies, overcapacity of the B777 for HA's ops, long waiting time for B787 EIS were some of the many factors as to why HA went with the A332. As HA is an established Airbus customer with A350s on the order book, it probably gave the A321 NEO an advantage over the B737MAX.

Quoting Azure (Reply 24):
Can you please explain why and give sources ? I am a little bit confused here : the Airbus website shows that a regular A321 based in HNL can definetely reach the US West Coast

Under nominal conditions only, but this does not take into account airport/runway limitations, departure conditions, enroute winds (which can severely restrict range especially on westbound flights to Hawaii during the northern hemisphere winter), ETOPS rules, etc.
 
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STT757
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RE: Hawaiian (HA) Signs MOU To Buy A321 NEO

Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:54 pm

Quoting g500 (Reply 1):
So basically Hawaiian plans to fly to thin U.S main-land markets.... Maybe SLC, Tucson, Oakland?
Quoting flyby519 (Reply 3):
Maybe they are going for frequency in large markets? Hourly shuttle service to LAX/SFO from HNL?

I say it's the latter, adding frequencies to existing markets on the West Coast. It would enable HA to either redeploy their widebodies to more International markets or to shrink their widebody fleet.

Quoting qqflyboy (Reply 7):
So, perhaps it won't be long before we see an order for A319s for inter-island ops.

No way, the A319s/20s etc.. are not suitable for their shuttle type of operation, neither were the 73NGs for AQ. Those aircraft are way too heavy and too much aircraft for short hops in the tropics. Why purchase aircraft that have the capability to fly NYC-Seattle when their longest inter-island flight is 200 miles. The 717s will soldier on and eventually be replaced by something like the C Series or ERJ-190s with new engines.
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roseflyer
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RE: Hawaiian (HA) Signs MOU To Buy A321 NEO

Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:57 pm

Quoting queb (Reply 25):
A321 ceo nominal range from Honolulu:

http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/1642/a321.png
source: Airbus website

Thanks for the image. It's a good picture, but doesn't tell the whole story. The max range quoted figure is MTOW with full tanks and no wind. (I assume no wind since the chart is symmetrical, and MTOW with full tanks since that usually is the second point in the range payload curve that Boeing and Airbus quote as max range).

In reality, the max range figures usually show full tanks which means on almost every airplane, there is payload being sacrificed to get that range. There has been discussion about the A320 series being fuel volume limited, but we don't know if an airline like HA which will only operate long routes would put in aux tanks.

I appreciate the image, but it doesn't tell the story. We all know the CEO can't operate those routes today.
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B6WNQX
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RE: Hawaiian (HA) Signs MOU To Buy A321 NEO

Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:02 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 37):
The 717s will soldier on and eventually be replaced by something like the C Series or ERJ-190s with new engines.

By the time the B717's are needing replacement, could they possibly look at a turbo prop in the 90 seat category if ATR gets approval to build it or if Bombardier stretches the Q400? With the stage lengths they don't need the jet speed but they need the capacity that is greater than current props. Aren't they already introducing the ATR72 or 42?

How much longer can the B717's go BTW? They must be getting up there on cycles and if they wanted to replace them they could have a buyer in DL.

Just throwing it out there.
 
AWACSooner
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RE: Hawaiian (HA) Signs MOU To Buy A321 NEO

Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:10 pm

IMO, this sounds flat out dumb. I know that HA is on a major expansion tear lately, but a tourist destination ony can sustain so much...andI fear that this narrow body expansion for a west coast strategy will only cause WN/AS/DL/UA to open up a fare war on Hawaii that could destroy HA. Think GO! vs. AQ, but on a larger scale.
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: Hawaiian (HA) Signs MOU To Buy A321 NEO

Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:11 pm

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 31):
Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 23):
Why didn't they go with the 737-900ER, for example?

I would guess ths HA decided the A321 was a better aircraft for its planed use.

Gee, thanks for clearing that up.  

I was kind of asking for more details.
 
Bobloblaw
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RE: Hawaiian (HA) Signs MOU To Buy A321 NEO

Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:19 pm

Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 12):

No, that would be hugely money losing.

Someone mentioned VX. They'd have to be etops first.
 
columba
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RE: Hawaiian (HA) Signs MOU To Buy A321 NEO

Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:28 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 41):
Gee, thanks for clearing that up.  

I was kind of asking for more details.

Airbus made them an offer they could not refuse  

One could only guess, as we don´t know the details of the deal, but one reason might be the commonality with their Airbus fleet. HA is not that big of an airline and if they could safe some money on training and their crews being able to fly both the Airbus A321NEO and the bigger sibblings is a huge factor.
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BoeingGuy
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RE: Hawaiian (HA) Signs MOU To Buy A321 NEO

Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:35 pm

Quoting columba (Reply 43):
HA is not that big of an airline and if they could safe some money on training and their crews being able to fly both the Airbus A321NEO and the bigger sibblings is a huge factor.

Do the A321 and A330/350 share a common type rating?
 
neutronstar73
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RE: Hawaiian (HA) Signs MOU To Buy A321 NEO

Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:11 pm

Quoting awacsooner (Reply 40):

IMO, this sounds flat out dumb. I know that HA is on a major expansion tear lately, but a tourist destination ony can sustain so much...andI fear that this narrow body expansion for a west coast strategy will only cause WN/AS/DL/UA to open up a fare war on Hawaii that could destroy HA. Think GO! vs. AQ, but on a larger scale.

DING DING DING!! We have a winner.

This is the beginning of the end for HA. They have to remember they don't operate in a vacuum, and once WN/AS/DL/UA decide to throw a ton of aircraft at the islands (with cheaper fares that HA will not be able to match) they are toast.

Southwest alone, when I was living in Hawaii, was hotly anticipated by many in Hawaii for their cheaper fares. As much as people like to praise HA, many people in Hawaii would LOVE to have Southwest competing against them.

And Southwest will win.
 
queb
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RE: Hawaiian (HA) Signs MOU To Buy A321 NEO

Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:19 pm

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 38):
We all know the CEO can't operate those routes today.

If United can do LAX-HNL and Alaska Airlines PDX-HNL with a 737-800, I don't see why an A321 (ceo or neo) could not do it.
 
flyingalex
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RE: Hawaiian (HA) Signs MOU To Buy A321 NEO

Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:25 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 44):
Do the A321 and A330/350 share a common type rating?

No, but the cockpit layout is very, very similar. It remains a separate rating, but the cross-qualification course between the A320 Family and the A330 is just a couple of days.

There are some airlines where pilots fly the A320 and A330 concurrently (rated on both). LX comes to mind.
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roseflyer
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RE: Hawaiian (HA) Signs MOU To Buy A321 NEO

Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:42 pm

Quoting queb (Reply 46):
Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 38):
We all know the CEO can't operate those routes today.

If United can do LAX-HNL and Alaska Airlines PDX-HNL with a 737-800, I don't see why an A321 (ceo or neo) could not do it.

I am referring to the range chart that Airbus publishes. It is very misleading. It implies that the range limit of the A321 is HNL-DFW or HNL-NRT. That's basically a ferry range or a business jet configuration range.
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lhcvg
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RE: Hawaiian (HA) Signs MOU To Buy A321 NEO

Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:46 pm

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 5):
Quoting enilria (Reply 4):
It's definitely for West Coast. It's a bit risky because the existing A321 can't make it, so they are depending on the guarantees from Airbus that this plane will make it. It is so risky because there is really nowhere else to fly it if it turns out that West Coast is too far. The A320 can't even make it now.
Quoting enilria (Reply 9):
It is rare that the guarantee is to take the planes back. Usually it is just a cash offset. The cash will help little in this case.

Given the risk for them - the alternative being to have the NEO's shuttle around the islands, which an NEO is WAY overkill (and unsuited by design) for - I can't see how they would have made such a deal without SOME form of guarantee that would be satisfactory to HA if the NEO's come up short.

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 11):
Sounds like they're getting nervous about AS, G4, WS and potentially others (VX and WN?) siphoning away traffic. Not sure what markets these a/c are intended for. By 2017, AS and G4 will easily have any and all west coast-Hawaii thin-medium markets covered.

I think so too, that and the NB flights from UA and DL creeping in there too. While I think the aforementioned LAX-HNL shuttle is probably overkill, the broader point of expanding service beyond what the WB's can do when int'l opportunities exist for them seems appealing, and smart.