boeingbus
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Breaking: Japan Airlines Is Smoking Up At BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:01 pm

Just heard that a jal plane at Logan is smoking up. Perhaps another 787 incident.

Anyone heat anything on this?
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boeingbus
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RE: Breaking: Japan Airlines Is Smoking Up At BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:03 pm

Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
 
 
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yellowtail
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RE: Breaking: Japan Airlines Is Smoking Up At BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:10 pm

Another 788 issue....this can't be good however one wants to look at it.
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AirlineCritic
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RE: Breaking: Japan Airlines Is Smoking Up At BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:17 pm

We'll probably hear soon again how this is electrical arcing and not a real fire. Ok, fair enough. But I for one would like to know more about the electronics incidents, and what might be behind them.
 
seansasLCY
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RE: Breaking: Japan Airlines Is Smoking Up At BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:18 pm

Picture of the plane at BOS : http://twitpic.com/btav08
 
flood
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RE: Breaking: Japan Airlines Is Smoking Up At BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:20 pm

 
apodino
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RE: Breaking: Japan Airlines Is Smoking Up At BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:20 pm

Apparently this happened at the Gate in BOS. It is being reported that there was no crew on board and no passengers either. Makes me wonder if something happened during fueling where the plane was not properly bonded during the process or something.
 
D L X
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RE: Breaking: Japan Airlines Is Smoking Up At BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:20 pm

"Fire noticed by cleaning crew"

https://twitter.com/PeterWBZ (WBZ is a local television and radio station in Boston)

Looks from the pic that it is in the cargo hold.
 
phxa340
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RE: Breaking: Japan Airlines Is Smoking Up At BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:22 pm

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 3):

It was in the cargo hold so it's a possibility this had nothing to do with the plane itself , lets wait and see.
 
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BoeingVista
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RE: Breaking: Japan Airlines Is Smoking Up At BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:24 pm

Quoting AirlineCritic (Reply 4):
We'll probably hear soon again how this is electrical arcing and not a real fire. Ok, fair enough. But I for one would like to know more about the electronics incidents, and what might be behind them.

Yup.

Cue esoteric dictionary definitions of a fire.. I guarantee you that this was not repeat not a fire  
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ikramerica
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RE: Breaking: Japan Airlines Is Smoking Up At BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:26 pm

LiIon batteries anyone?
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76er
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RE: Breaking: Japan Airlines Is Smoking Up At BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:27 pm

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 9):
It was in the cargo hold so it's a possibility this had nothing to do with the plane itself

Don't know much about the 787, but usually the lower cargo compartments on large jets are right next to the avionics bay(s).

[Edited 2013-01-07 08:28:48]
 
FDH
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RE: Breaking: Japan Airlines Is Smoking Up At BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:37 pm

No change in return flight schedule yet (per JAL and Logan web sites), departure still scheduled for 12:00 PM today.

FDH
 
BigSaabowski
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RE: Breaking: Japan Airlines Is Smoking Up At BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:39 pm

Tail number JA829J; delivered on December 21st, 2012.
 
D L X
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RE: Breaking: Japan Airlines Is Smoking Up At BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:39 pm

Quoting FDH (Reply 13):

No change in return flight schedule yet (per JAL and Logan web sites), departure still scheduled for 12:00 PM today.

That's 23 minutes from now, as of this post. Unless they've already started boarding it, my guess is that it will be at least delayed.

With that said, the CBS live stream shows a helicopter camera flying away from Logan, so apparently there is nothing more to see. Good news, for sure!
 
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RE: Breaking: Japan Airlines Is Smoking Up At BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:41 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 15):
That's 23 minutes from now, as of this post. Unless they've already started boarding it, my guess is that it will be at least delayed.


With a fire on board an aircraft for any reason, that flight will be canceled. There are too many inspection to be done, even if it was a cargo fire.
 
D L X
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RE: Breaking: Japan Airlines Is Smoking Up At BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:42 pm

Quoting BigSaabowski (Reply 16):
With a fire on board an aircraft for any reason, that flight will be canceled. There are too many inspection to be done, even if it was a cargo fire.

Agreed. Just noting that the JAL and Logan websites cannot possibly be correct that this plane will be departing in now 18 minutes.
 
BigSaabowski
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RE: Breaking: Japan Airlines Is Smoking Up At BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:46 pm

WCVB-TV, quoting Boston Fire, is reporting that the fire is believed to be electrical.

[Edited 2013-01-07 08:46:34]
 
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AirlineCritic
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RE: Breaking: Japan Airlines Is Smoking Up At BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:53 pm

Quoting BigSaabowski (Reply 18):
WCVB-TV, quoting Boston Fire, is reporting that the fire is believed to be electrical.

In fairness, it is hard to know at this time. Need to wait for more information. But if the plane was empty when there was a fire, it might make it a bit less likely for the issue to be with cargo or luggage. They should have been unloaded by that time, and usually get loaded while the passengers are boarding.
 
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RE: Breaking: Japan Airlines Is Smoking Up At BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:56 pm

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 9):
It was in the cargo hold so it's a possibility this had nothing to do with the plane itself , lets wait and see.

Indeed, but if so, a very unfortunate coincidence.
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dumbell2424
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RE: Breaking: Japan Airlines Is Smoking Up At BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:57 pm

Here are some tweeple I found with some pics


http://twitter.com/GlobeMoskowitz (long line pic after canceling the flight)

http://twitter.com/bostonfire (quite a few photos)

And according to the Boston Fire twitter: "Fire was in a compartment with batteries and other electrical components."

edit--made links clickable

[Edited 2013-01-07 08:57:58]
 
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AirlineCritic
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RE: Breaking: Japan Airlines Is Smoking Up At BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:58 pm

Seattle Times says smoke from cockpit... thought it seems to counter the photos:

http://seattletimes.com/html/nationw...d/2020078313_apusairplanefire.html
 
dumbell2424
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RE: Breaking: Japan Airlines Is Smoking Up At BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:01 pm

Quoting AirlineCritic (Reply 22):
Seattle Times says smoke from cockpit... thought it seems to counter the photos

Not just Seattle Times, whoever publishes AP News Wires.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...E=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
 
vegas005
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RE: Breaking: Japan Airlines Is Smoking Up At BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:03 pm

Landed with smoke and flames? Staying off this bird until they fix them ... Issues have been atrocious so far.
 
F9Animal
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RE: Breaking: Japan Airlines Is Smoking Up At BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:03 pm

Nothing here guys. This is totally normal. Probably just an arch.... Or just a spark. Doubtful it was a fire. Boeing will downplay this like usual.
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Cubsrule
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RE: Breaking: Japan Airlines Is Smoking Up At BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:05 pm

Quoting F9animal (Reply 25):
Nothing here guys. This is totally normal. Probably just an arch.... Or just a spark. Doubtful it was a fire. Boeing will downplay this like usual.

Certainly not a nothing, but is it somehow "worse" than all of the cracking in the 388? Stuff happens with new airplanes. Given the news cycle, we hear about it more than we did with, say, the 757 or the 320.
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max550
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RE: Breaking: Japan Airlines Is Smoking Up At BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:05 pm

Quoting vegas005 (Reply 24):
Landed with smoke and flames? Staying off this bird until they fix them ... Issues have been atrocious so far.

No, it never would have gone to the gate if it landed with smoke and flames. From everything I've read so far smoke was noticed after it was parked at the gate with no pax or crew on-board.
 
BlueSky1976
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RE: Breaking: Japan Airlines Is Smoking Up At BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:06 pm

Now the key question is... was the compartment part of the aircraft equipment or do they refer to the cargo?
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vegas005
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RE: Breaking: Japan Airlines Is Smoking Up At BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:09 pm

Quoting dumbell2424 (Reply 21):
Quoting max550 (Reply 27):

Twitter response clearly disagrees with your statement.
 
FDH
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RE: Breaking: Japan Airlines Is Smoking Up At BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:09 pm

If halon and water was indeed used to stop the fire, it might take a little while for this plane to return to service (depending on the amount of water used).

Quoting dumbell2424 (Reply 21):

http://twitter.com/GlobeMoskowitz (long line pic after canceling the flight)

FDH
 
71Zulu
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RE: Breaking: Japan Airlines Is Smoking Up At BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:13 pm

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 28):
Now the key question is... was the compartment part of the aircraft equipment or do they refer to the cargo?

Mass Fire Chief said battery compartment.
Clickable links only please!
 
max550
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RE: Breaking: Japan Airlines Is Smoking Up At BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:14 pm

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 28):
Now the key question is... was the compartment part of the aircraft equipment or do they refer to the cargo?

According to this reporter in BOS the component was a battery used to power the APU.


Quoting vegas005 (Reply 29):
Twitter response clearly disagrees with your statement.

Where? I haven't read anything suggesting the plane was smoking and on fire when it landed.
 
FDH
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RE: Breaking: Japan Airlines Is Smoking Up At BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:18 pm

Flight cancellation notice from JAL. No new information but they do apologize.

http://www.ar.jal.com/arl/cms/contents/en/special_news_003116.html

FDH
 
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RE: Breaking: Japan Airlines Is Smoking Up At BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:28 pm

Quoting vegas005 (Reply 24):
Landed with smoke and flames?

No, where did you come up with that?

Please read the thread:

Quoting D L X (Reply 8):
"Fire noticed by cleaning crew"

And indeed they probably noticed smoke, as opposed to "a fire".

Quoting max550 (Reply 32):
The component on fire was a battery used to power an auxiliary power unit. Halatron used to extinguish fire.
— Jonathan Hall (@JHall7news) January 7, 2013

Interesting.

What causes a battery to start emitting smoke?

They are low voltage devices so it's presumably not an arc/plasma event.

I've had the battery on a UPS blow up when lightning hit the mains, so (SPECULATION) I wonder if it was an issue with the charging system?
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wingnutmn
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RE: Breaking: Japan Airlines Is Smoking Up At BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:30 pm

If Halon and water were used, New batteries are required and all electrical connectors and lines need to be inspected. This just went from bad to worse for this airplane. If Boeing has a "war room", Mr. McNerney is there with most of the 787 lead engineers and program managers right now in damage control. This is what, the 3rd or 4th fire or smoke incident from a battery or avionics? I know it happens, but this many times from so few airplanes produced is not looking good right now.

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Revelation
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RE: Breaking: Japan Airlines Is Smoking Up At BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:40 pm

Quoting wingnutmn (Reply 35):
If Boeing has a "war room", Mr. McNerney is there with most of the 787 lead engineers and program managers right now in damage control.

Wonder if they pulled a well known a.net member out of class to go have a look?

We now read from bostonfire on twitter:

Quote:

48m Boston Fire Dept. Boston Fire Dept. ‏@BostonFire

Fire was in a compartment with batteries and other electrical components. Boston Fire assisted Massport Fire.
Expand
49m Boston Fire Dept. Boston Fire Dept. ‏@BostonFire

The mechanic noticed a light smoke condition increasing from the underbelly of the plane. He notified Massport Fire.
Expand
50m Boston Fire Dept. Boston Fire Dept. ‏@BostonFire

At Logan, after the plane landed and all passengers had left the plane, a mechanic was doing a walk through of the 787 plane.

So this says it was a mechanic doing a post-flight walk through, not a cleaning crew, who noticed "light smoke", yet our friends in Boston FD are using that "unfortunate" word, "fire", to describe what went on.
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deltal1011man
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RE: Breaking: Japan Airlines Is Smoking Up At BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:50 pm

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 3):
Another 788 issue....this can't be good however one wants to look at it.

Yep. No other airplane has ever had smoke before. 1st time. Took the fire dept. a while to figure out how to deal with it.  
Quoting F9animal (Reply 25):
Nothing here guys. This is totally normal. Probably just an arch.... Or just a spark. Doubtful it was a fire. Boeing will downplay this like usual.

Yeah I mean, like the down playing of another aircraft that basically had to have its system completely replaced.  


I do like how everyone jumps and they know nothing about what they speak. smh
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joepatroniyx
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RE: Breaking: Japan Airlines Is Smoking Up At BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:55 pm

If you go to www.bostonherald.com there are a couple of pictures that clearly show smoke from the rear cargo compartment , Not a good day for the 787
 
F9Animal
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RE: Breaking: Japan Airlines Is Smoking Up At BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:59 pm

It was likely an arch. No fire. Fire department is probably wrong. Those guys don't know what a fire is. Again, this is totally normal.

Does anyone know which factory this plane came from by chance? JAL is not going to be a happy camper on this. They are infamous for being very tough as a customer, which is a good thing. I met a few of their delivery guys when they were inspecting a 737 before it went out of the hanger. Very nice, and very professional. I was also very impressed with Qantas.
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AirlineCritic
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RE: Breaking: Japan Airlines Is Smoking Up At BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:02 pm

Interesting. From the Boston Herald article:

Quote:

“We don’t want to speculate, but it could have happened after it arrived,” said Freni, adding that all luggage was off the plane at the time the fire was reported.

Massport Fire Chief Robert Donahue said firefighters saw “heavy smoke conditions” in the entire cabin when they arrived and determined the source of the smoke was the plane’s avionics section where the batteries are located.
 
jreuschl
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RE: Breaking: Japan Airlines Is Smoking Up At BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:07 pm

Does it seem these electrical incidents are coming on the later-delivery 787s? You had the United one, and this one apparently was delivered Dec 20.
 
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mbmbos
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RE: Breaking: Japan Airlines Is Smoking Up At BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:13 pm

"If I don't manage to fly, someone else will. The spirit wants only for there to be flying. As for who happens to do it, in that he has only a passing interest."
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Norcal773
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RE: Breaking: Japan Airlines Is Smoking Up At BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:24 pm

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 38):
Yep. No other airplane has ever had smoke before. 1st time. Took the fire dept. a while to figure out how to deal with it.

Well-said although Boeing could do without these 'Electrical incidents' they keep having on the 787. Obviously, this will be over-blown especially here on A.Net but scary to think what the results would have been if this happened in the middle of the Pacific.
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alphaomega
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RE: Breaking: Japan Airlines Is Smoking Up At BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:43 pm

Smoke in the cockpit reported after everyone de-planed. Batteries melted and caught fire, and the avionics compartment is apparently a mess - a/c will be here for a few days. No injuries.
 
roseflyer
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RE: Breaking: Japan Airlines Is Smoking Up At BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:15 pm

Smoke, fire, burning, etc is never a good thing.

This event is going to get a lot of press coverage because it is a 787. No one seems to put it in context that smoke in the flight or cabin causes an airplane to divert with passengers on it every few days somewhere in the world. Any maintenance writeup on those planes seems to get press coverage.

No one would have ever noticed this event since it was on a 777: http://avherald.com/h?article=459edf9a&opt=0

However if that had happened to a 787, Boeing’s stock price would be falling and aviation “experts” around the world would be speculating about the airplane be grounded.

The internet age is fascinating.
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jreuschl
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RE: Breaking: Japan Airlines Is Smoking Up At BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:28 pm

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 53):
This event is going to get a lot of press coverage because it is a 787. No one seems to put it in context that smoke in the flight or cabin causes an airplane to divert with passengers on it every few days somewhere in the world. Any maintenance writeup on those planes seems to get press coverage.

Yes, but there are not that many 787s in service. A number of them have had electrical issues. Electrical is different on this plane than others.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...-on-787-reliability-issues-380664/

They have had some issues with the electrical systems, too.

If there is "nothing to see" here, then I guess the A380's issues are "nothing to see", either, because issues can happen on any aircraft!
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Breaking: Japan Airlines Is Smoking Up At BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:36 pm

Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 47):
Well-said although Boeing could do without these 'Electrical incidents' they keep having on the 787. Obviously, this will be over-blown especially here on A.Net but scary to think what the results would have been if this happened in the middle of the Pacific.


Which is precisely why it is a very big deal. When a fire develops halfway between HNL and SYD, it is a very big deal. There are not many frames in service and this is the second fire.

I don't know about you, but if I were an airline chief with 787's on the property, I would be very interested in these proceedings and I would be more than a bit worried about the safety and reliability of my own fleet.
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Viscount724
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RE: Breaking: Japan Airlines Is Smoking Up At BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:39 pm

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 10):
I guarantee you that this was not repeat not a fire

How can you guarantee that when you're 10,000 miles away? Recent news items say there WAS a fire.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...g-787-boston-idUSBRE9060JB20130107
 
SonomaFlyer
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RE: Breaking: Japan Airlines Is Smoking Up At BOS

Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:43 pm

We will need to wait for the quick sketch from the NTSB with the description of the event. The fact Halatron was used is a significant issue if for no other reason than additional inspections will be needed. The battery of course (assuming that bit is right) will need to be replaced and all surrounding equipment and wiring must be inspected and some of it replaced.

If there were heavy smoke conditions in the cabin, the entire interior of the a/c must be scrubbed to get rid of any residual smoke smell for obvious reasons.

This a/c will be out of revenue service for weeks unfortunately for JAL.

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