RCS763AV
Topic Author
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Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:22 am

Colombian Aviation thread 12

Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:27 pm

So we enter the new year with open skies towards the United States. Many carriers have beefed up their services starting this christmas season and will continue to do so during the rest of the year, here's an account of the available Colombia-US flights:

BOG:

MIA AA 3x (763, 757, 738) AV 3x (A332, A319 2x), LA 1x (A320)
FLL AV 1x (A320) NK 1x (A320) B6 1x (A320)
MCO AV 1x (A319) B6 1x (A320)
JFK AV 2x (A332, A319), DL 1x (73W)
EWR UA 1x (757)
IAH UA 2x (757 2x)
ATL DL 2x (757, 73W)
IAD AV 1x (A319)

soon

DFW AA 1x

MDE:

MIA AV 1x (A320) AA 1x (738)
FLL NK 1x (A319) soon B6 1x
JFK AV 1x (A319)

CLO:

MIA AV 1x (A320) AA 1x (738)
JFK AV 1x (A319 via MDE)

CTG:

MIA AV 1x (A318)
FLL NK 1x (A319)
JFK 3x weekly B6 (A320)

BAQ:

MIA AV 1x (A320)

AXM:

FLL 4x weekly NK (A319)

Hopefully there will be more to come!

Also, here's an interesting article from CAPA on the VIVA branded carriers, including VIVA Colombia:

http://centreforaviation.com/analysi...ponders-third-viva-franchise-93805
 
SJOtoLIR
Posts: 2426
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:41 pm

Colombian Aviation thread 12

Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:14 am

The dedicated TA/LR SJO-MDE non-stop service is no longer available since TA SAL-MDE 4x weekly started on January 02nd.
TA/LR SJO-PTY-MDE 7x weekly commenced in the same date.

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
trent772
Posts: 131
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:08 pm

Colombian Aviation thread 12

Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:51 am

Hello All,

First, I'd like to wish everyone a Happy new year and may 2013 bring a lot of joy, happiness and health to all of you and your loved ones.

On the aviation side of things, there is a strong rumour going around AV, the company is supposed to be working on a new Certificate of Operations for a new company, according to this rumour, AV would drop all turboprop flying and focus on flying jets only (just as it once was back from the late 60's to the early 90's).
This "new" company would take over all of Av's regional flights in a sort of feeder scheme to its bigger trunk routes, they would also take Av's newly acquired ATR's as the backbone of their fleet.
Even the name "Avianca Express" has been tossed around.

Your Thoughts?
Pedaling Squares…
 
RICARIZA
Posts: 2023
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Colombian Aviation thread 12

Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:57 pm

Avianca Express, really? Sounds appropriate if it wasn't already being used for the AV's cargo/courier service; although I just saw that the web page, www.AviancaExpress.com is currently "on maintenance"  
I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
 
2travel2know2
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Colombian Aviation thread 12

Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:47 pm

What are the latest news on VVC Villavicencio Vanguardia Airport "the other Bogotá airport"?
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
A388
Posts: 7194
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

Colombian Aviation thread 12

Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:00 pm

Happy New Year to everybody here as well and looking forward to more positive developments for the Colombian aviation. I'm still waiting to read about passenger experiences at the new terminal in BOG. I got lucky to experience the old terminal building in September of last year and I'm looking forward to the new terminal building in the future (a few years from now)!!!

A388
 
RCS763AV
Topic Author
Posts: 3654
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:22 am

Colombian Aviation thread 12

Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:42 pm

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 1):
The dedicated TA/LR SJO-MDE non-stop service is no longer available since TA SAL-MDE 4x weekly started on January 02nd.
TA/LR SJO-PTY-MDE 7x weekly commenced in the same date.

So the entire AV-TA international schedule from MDE right now is:

daily MIA A320
daily PTY-SJO E190
daily JFK A319
daily UIO-LIM A320
3x weekly LIM E190
4x weekly SAL E190

Quoting trent772 (Reply 2):
This "new" company would take over all of Av's regional flights in a sort of feeder scheme to its bigger trunk routes, they would also take Av's newly acquired ATR's as the backbone of their fleet.
Even the name "Avianca Express" has been tossed around.

This is interesting, although I wonder if really necessary...there might be some cost savings on the salaries side but that's all I can think off.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 4):
What are the latest news on VVC Villavicencio Vanguardia Airport "the other Bogotá airport"?

Villavicencio is NOT the "other" Bogotá airport. There was a rumor in the nineties that it would be used as such but nothing happened since then, and nothing will happen now. As has been explained before, the road to Villaviencio is very unreliable, and while it would normally take just two hours to get from Bogotá to the city, traffic jams and mountain slides can easily turn the trip into a ten hour ordeal. That is why, at least in the forseeable future, VVC will not serve as Bogotá's alternate airport.

In the city's airport master plan that is being developed, there is talk of building a new airport for private/air taxi and military operations somewhere in the savannah but definitely there are no plans whatsoever to adequate VVC for it to serve as a secondary Bogotá airport.

On another note, AF will be celebrating 60 years of uninterrupted operations in Colombia in 2013, making it the oldest continuously operating foreign airline in the country. I didn't know AFKL's head office for the andean countries was located in Bogotá:

http://www.aviacol.net/noticias-del-...anos-de-operacion-en-colombia.html
 
SJOtoLIR
Posts: 2426
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:41 pm

Colombian Aviation thread 12

Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:15 am

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 6):
AF will be celebrating 60 years of uninterrupted operations in Colombia in 2013

Air France's Lockheed Constellation started their operations in Bogota, back in 1953...
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
RCS763AV
Topic Author
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Colombian Aviation thread 12

Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:31 pm

Interesting article from CAPA relating to our thread starting topic:

http://centreforaviation.com/analysi...-by-jetblue-and-lan-colombia-94110

What I don't get is why they say the growth is being led by B6 and LA, when AV just this december added a third flight to MIA, a weekly frequency to JFK to round up two daily flights and 3 extra weekly frequencies to MCO to make it daily, all from BOG.

Also, NK and AV do not compete on the CTG-FLL market. It's clear that AV flies to MIA and NK flies to FLL from the heroic city.

But otherwise an interesting read.

[Edited 2013-01-15 08:52:12]
 
777jaah
Posts: 852
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Colombian Aviation thread 12

Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:52 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 5):
I'm still waiting to read about passenger experiences at the new terminal in BOG

Int he last 2 months I've been through the new terminal twice. So far its been good, emigration and inmigration lines almost non-existant, nice gate areas (lounges are for both AV and LA still temporary), and lots of duty-free shops. Downsides are limited food offerings once you cleared customs and bags don't come out as fast as one could wish (but nothing like they take in MIA really). Overall, my experience has been positive, and waaay better than the old terminal.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 8):
What I don't get is why they say the growth is being led by B6 and LA, when AV just this december added a third flight to MIA

Did LA changed the uquipment used in the route to the 767?

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 7):
there might be some cost savings on the salaries side but that's all I can think off.

I don't really think that could be the reaon really. I can't think of any reason at all......
Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
 
A388
Posts: 7194
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

Colombian Aviation thread 12

Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:29 pm

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 9):
Int he last 2 months I've been through the new terminal twice. So far its been good, emigration and inmigration lines almost non-existant, nice gate areas (lounges are for both AV and LA still temporary), and lots of duty-free shops. Downsides are limited food offerings once you cleared customs and bags don't come out as fast as one could wish (but nothing like they take in MIA really). Overall, my experience has been positive, and waaay better than the old terminal.

Finally a first experience, nice. What I have seen on photos the new terminal indeed does look much bigger with lots more space and glass. Are there areas where you can take nice aircraft photos too once you've passed all the checks and are there public places such as restaurants or spectator areas to view and photograph aircraft (landside) just as the old terminal has (between the domestic and international terminal)?

A388
 
RCS763AV
Topic Author
Posts: 3654
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:22 am

Colombian Aviation thread 12

Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:05 pm

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 9):
Did LA changed the uquipment used in the route to the 767?

No, they haven't. It should come soon, but it's surprising how the article names them as "leaders" of Colombia-US route expansion. B6, I get it, they have been the US carrier with the most expansion lately, but LAN?

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 9):
I don't really think that could be the reaon really. I can't think of any reason at all......

Who knows, maybe they'll explain it in the next earnings call.
 
MATURRO727
Posts: 282
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2004 11:17 am

Colombian Aviation thread 12

Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:35 am

Quoting A388 (Reply 5):
This is interesting, although I wonder if really necessary...there might be some cost savings on the salaries side but that's all I can think off.
Quoting 777jaah (Reply 9):
I don't really think that could be the reaon really. I can't think of any reason at all......
Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 11):

It’s actually really simple. They want to reduce costs by making exactly the same thing that IB did with Iberia Express. AV pilots might not have the greatest salaries in the world, but they do have lots of benefits like a really good health plan (even better than pre-paid medicine), or the superb meal plan to name just a few. Of course this things cost a lot of money to the company. Avianca Express pilots would not even earn less money i think, but they will not have all the benefits and “commodities” that AV pilots have. also (and I think this is really were the trick is), is that AV had their pilots trained and type rated in 3 or 4 different aircraft thanks to the expansion and to the seniority scheme. So there were even pilots who flew the Fokker 50 for 2 months, then transitioned to the MD83 and 6 months later they were flaying the A320. so the training costs were and are huge.

Now it’s said that the new company will hire mainly Police and Satena pilots mainly who are currently type rated in the ATR equipment. It is said tough that the First Officers will transition to AV eventually following the seniority list.
This is merely pure speculation of course because nothing official has been said. Now the other rumor is that Mr Efromovich is desperately looking to buy more than a regional airline an operation certificate to establish the new AV Express as starting an airline from scratch takes way to long. How ironic as a year ago they finally merged SAM making AV the sole operator and now they want to buy an operation certificate…

Oh well, we will see what happens, but one thing is certain, if this new company ever takes off, then difficult days will come ahead for AV pilots, F/A and all the flight crews of the airline. Unfortunately that’s where the industry is headed in the near future, old days where flying was all luxurious are gone…


my two cents.

MATURRO727

[Edited 2013-01-15 18:06:04]

[Edited 2013-01-15 18:13:25]
 
bogota
Posts: 652
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 4:10 am

Colombian Aviation thread 12

Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:44 am

Quoting A388 (Reply 10):
Finally a first experience, nice. What I have seen on photos the new terminal indeed does look much bigger with lots more space and glass. Are there areas where you can take nice aircraft photos too once you've passed all the checks and are there public places such as restaurants or spectator areas to view and photograph aircraft (land-side) just as the old terminal has (between the domestic and international terminal)?

I have travelled through the terminal now on three occasions. All my experiences have been very similar, check in really depends on the airline you travel. Avianca really has increased the check in staff and they are also incentivizing the use of machines for check-in. In that sense I have never seen much queues at any time. I have seen very long queues on Iberia, Air France and Aeromexico which is sad to see how they are not using the available counters to benefit customers.

The shops in the check in area are good, a little bit of everything except maybe a good book store. Yet the lady at the book store in the old terminal told me they would have a shop in the domestic side of the new terminal. Definitely this is not a land-side terminal as the old terminal was, although the mezzanine in the domestic terminal will have a larger option of food and shops, the viewing area will be more limited than in the old airport. In the existing new terminal there is no real viewing area as in the old one.

Eating options until they open the domestic side is limited to Creppes and Waffles and Kokoriko Rotisserie. Going through passport control is extremely easy, far more operational booths than passengers so hardly any queues even during peak hours. On the air-side quite nice shops a very large shopping area in Attenza with many brand names inside. Also a large La Riviera which together make a large shopping avenue as you come out of security.

There is also a food mezzanine with Presto Burgers, Burger King and a new Italian chain called Alfredo´s owned by Kokoriko. Also you find a Juan Valdez and another Kokoriko new chain called American Bistro in the main level next to the array of shops lining up the boarding gates.

The VIP lounges are also under construction both for LAN and Avianca (which will be the One World and Star Alliance lounges). There are several hot spots for recharging phones and laptops, also several moving walk ways that take you to the end of the airport where there are some escalators that take you down to the remote boarding gates.

I have used the gate with the double boarding which basically uses adjacent doors at the same desk but the ramps head on opposite directions and then connect each to a different jetway. The ramps do take away a lot of viewing space out the windows at the gates, so not that easy to find good views into the ramps, especially for an all glass airport.

Upon arrival, it never seems very crowded and I have arrived at peak times, passport control has always been a breeze in my experience, which means I have had to wait a little for bags every time, not much though except on my Avianca flight which took about 20 minute wait. Customs varies greatly from two DIAN officials and a slower moving queue that lead to the scanners, to 4 DIAN officials and things moving very quickly. Still nothing bad. As you exit the space is a little crowded with those waiting and the taxi rank seems very unorganized with people coming in from the old terminal to queue at the same space. The large windows looking into the luggage carousels are very good as the keep most of the waiting families and friends away from the Arrivals exit area.

Looking forward to the opening of the domestic side, my understanding is that the check in and luggage hall will begin operations later on this year prior to finalization of the construction of the domestic piers, which will basically mean that the old terminal will only hold gates for some time before its demolition.
 
bogota
Posts: 652
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 4:10 am

Colombian Aviation thread 12

Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:49 am

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 9):
Did LA changed the uquipment used in the route to the 767?

Not yet, the certification is under way by Aerocivil, the flights in 767 from BOG should be operational by April to GRU, SCL and MIA followed by LAX hopefully before the middle of the year. Shall wait and see.
 
777jaah
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Colombian Aviation thread 12

Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:22 pm

Quoting Bogota (Reply 13):
There is also a food mezzanine with Presto Burgers, Burger King and a new Italian chain called Alfredo´s owned by Kokoriko. Also you find a Juan Valdez and another Kokoriko new chain called American Bistro in the main level next to the array of shops lining up the boarding gates.

IMO, airside options are very limited so far. Hope this changes.

Quoting A388 (Reply 10):
Are there areas where you can take nice aircraft photos too once you've passed all the checks and are there public places such as restaurants or spectator areas to view and photograph aircraft (landside) just as the old terminal has (between the domestic and international terminal)?

I took some pics with my phone, very limited view actually, but what is interesting are the views ont he runway.

Quoting Bogota (Reply 14):
The VIP lounges are also under construction both for LAN and Avianca

I used the AV lounge on both ocassions. Really limited, but understandable. Hopefully the new one is open when I have my trip to MAD next April.

Quoting MATURRO727 (Reply 12):
It’s actually really simple. They want to reduce costs by making exactly the same thing that IB did with Iberia Express.

I was afraid that was the ype of move AV is thinking with AV Express.

Quoting MATURRO727 (Reply 12):
Now it’s said that the new company will hire mainly Police and Satena pilots mainly who are currently type rated in the ATR equipment

I wonder if those pilots can easily drop off the police.....don't they have some type of contract or something like that?

Quoting MATURRO727 (Reply 12):
Oh well, we will see what happens, but one thing is certain, if this new company ever takes off, then difficult days will come ahead for AV pilots, F/A and all the flight crews of the airline. Unfortunately that’s where the industry is headed in the near future, old days where flying was all luxurious are gone…

Oh sure. But AV employees have to be grateful they work for a serious company with a growing, profitable business plan, unlike many big players around the world, or even, this same company a few years ago that was in the verge of bankrupcy.

Quoting Bogota (Reply 13):
So there were even pilots who flew the Fokker 50 for 2 months, then transitioned to the MD83 and 6 months later they were flaying the A320. so the training costs were and are huge

Probably they spent more time in training than actually flying........but I guess those are the costs of having a completely new type of fleet. In the medium term, that situation will stabilize thanks fto fleet commonality In the future, AV will only have the 787s and the Airbus fleet, assuming AV Express takes control of the turboprop ooperation.
Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
 
RICARIZA
Posts: 2023
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2005 7:56 am

Colombian Aviation thread 12

Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:53 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 5):

I posted a small TR with some pics for you. I am not really proud of the TR nor the pics but it will give you a general idea of the new terminal in construction.
New BOG International Terminal Experience (by RICARIZA Jan 16 2013 in Trip Reports)
I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
 
SJOtoLIR
Posts: 2426
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Colombian Aviation thread 12

Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:59 am

jetBlue officially announces Ft. Lauderdale - Medellin service:

B6 041.....FLL 16:45..........MDE 19:04.......Daily......320
B6 040.....MDE 07:05........FLL 11:29.........Daily......320
Effective: June 13th

Regards
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
MATURRO727
Posts: 282
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2004 11:17 am

Colombian Aviation thread 12

Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:12 am

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 15):
I was afraid that was the ype of move AV is thinking with AV Express.

Everybody is unfortunately. But as I said this is just speculation. Very plausible but still, speculation...

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 15):
I wonder if those pilots can easily drop off the police.....don't they have some type of contract or something like that?

well thay can, they can quit the force or simply retire from active service. im not sure but i think with 20 years of active service you are good to go, most of Satena's crews are actually retaierd air force pilots i think, there are very few civil pilots flying for them so probably the captains will be very seduced to fly for AV Express if it ever happens i think.

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 15):
Oh sure. But AV employees have to be grateful they work for a serious company with a growing, profitable business plan, unlike many big players around the world, or even, this same company a few years ago that was in the verge of bankrupcy.

Well people are grateful believe me, but nobody likes when suddenly you start loosing your privileges of being a valuable member of one of the best and most respected companies in LAM or even the world, you sure would not be happy if they take away the superb health plan, or the nice hotels on the layovers and switch them to 3 star hotels. Or take your transportation service to and from the airports etc. I mean, we pilots work our asses off in a tough industry because we sure damn love it, and we love to fly, but seriously it freaks me the hell out to be treated like if anyone can do the job cause its easy as driving a cab. in the near future just because people think that flying a plane suddenly became super easy because automation and advance technology and lots of people think there up to the job.

Although Its true that automation has reduce significantly the work loads to flight crews and tough now days you might not need super airmanship as the old days, you need to be focused and work on your capacities as a leader and as manager of a machine that has thousands of kilograms of fuel and 120 souls onboard. Yes you might not need to land as softer as you can to feel proud of your skills and feed your ego anymore casue probably the autopilot will land thousand times better than you. But when the time comes with a real scenario that the computers itself cant solve then you will experience what really is to be a pilot and what your job is really worth

And is not like AV is bleeding money, as you said there is a solid business plan and they are making profits every quarter. So why suddenly try to change the rules of the game to be even more profitable which will only lead to angry workers feeling that they just got ripped off from everything. Let me tell you something lots of people are fine in trying to help and move forward and not just work for but with the company, they might work their asses off so the company makes even more money, as a team, but what people is not fine with is; is the company trying to be more profitable by taking away their employees benefits and leaving them with barely nothing but their salaries...

but hey, thats just my opinion.

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 15):
Probably they spent more time in training than actually flying........but I guess those are the costs of having a completely new type of fleet. In the medium term, that situation will stabilize thanks fto fleet commonality In the future, AV will only have the 787s and the Airbus fleet, assuming AV Express takes control of the turboprop ooperation.

well thats the costs of having a seniority list and a really fast expansion project. take this example, imagine a recently hired FO jumps straight up to the 32S fleet while the FO's of the F50 have to stay in the same aircraft for who knows hoy many more years cuse is cheaper to the company. but they have been working for the company for 2 or more years. and suddenly this guy is making more money flying international or even working on an aircraft with air conditioned or even ice. so what does the company do ? they hire pilots to go directly to the 32S so they dont have to transition to the fokker 50 and pay two type raitings, and let F50 pilots flying the dutch man but automatically matching the salaries of those of the Airbus fleet, plus giving them a monthly per diem average of the whole 32S fleet.

and that has been the problem ever since the expantion since 04, nevertheless they are still making lots of money and consolidating a really good product cause to tell you the truth, AV training has nothing to envy to the big players of the world IMHO.

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 15):
assuming AV Express takes control of the turboprop ooperation.

Well that’s the problem again, not only they will shrink the company by cutting turboprop ops, by taking out 7 airframes which are the F50, but also the ATR's will not be part of the AV's fleet either. Meaning pilots will take even longer to transition to the next step in their career. For the seniority list to move two things have to happen: senior pilots retiring or the company bringing more planes. But with AV Express that will be the exact opposite. See what I mean? And that’s not the worst part, what if suddenly this new company wants to operate all the A318 too? And so on, why? Cause its cheaper...

maybe AV pilots wont be touched at all or maybe they will who knows. but if so this is IB Express all over again.


__________________________________________________________________________________________________



http://www.businesstravelerusa.com/a...2-worlda-s-best-in-business-travel

BEST AIRLINE IN LATIN/SOUTH AMERICA: AVIANCA


Congrats to them !


regards.

MATURRO727
 
2travel2know2
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Colombian Aviation thread 12

Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:12 pm

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 17):
B6 041.....FLL 16:45..........MDE 19:04.......Daily......320
B6 040.....MDE 07:05........FLL 11:29.........Daily......320

That looks quite nice if B6 wants to start red-eyes flights between JFK and MDE.
Could B6 A320 take-off from MDE non-stop to JFK around midnight?
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
777jaah
Posts: 852
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:38 pm

Colombian Aviation thread 12

Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:41 pm

Quoting MATURRO727 (Reply 18):
And is not like AV is bleeding money, as you said there is a solid business plan and they are making profits every quarter. So why suddenly try to change the rules of the game to be even more profitable which will only lead to angry workers feeling that they just got ripped off from everything. Let me tell you something lots of people are fine in trying to help and move forward and not just work for but with the company, they might work their asses off so the company makes even more money, as a team, but what people is not fine with is; is the company trying to be more profitable by taking away their employees benefits and leaving them with barely nothing but their salaries...

but hey, thats just my opinion.

I understand completely. The industry I work for has been tightening its conditions for us since 2008. And when you think it has stopped, it comes a new round of conditions. Its a worldwide thing, not only locally, just the way it's been with pilots everywhere.

Unfortunately, companies only think in how to improve their margins, but in the process, they go too far and good and valuable employees start jumping to the competition. At the end of the end, keeping hte workforce happy is essential to run a succesful company.

Quoting MATURRO727 (Reply 18):
maybe AV pilots wont be touched at all or maybe they will who knows. but if so this is IB Express all over again.

Any idea what the pilots would do in such case?

It's always nice to have someone involved in the process sharing his toughts. Thanks.
Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
 
bogota
Posts: 652
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 4:10 am

Colombian Aviation thread 12

Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:57 pm

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 15):
IMO, airside options are very limited so far. Hope this changes.

Those restaurants I mentioned are all airside, I have never seen them full. The only place I have seen full is the Juan Valdez, hopefully more coffee shops will open on the extension of the international terminal once they finish it.
 
Summa767
Posts: 1756
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:30 am

Colombian Aviation thread 12

Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:35 pm

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 19):
That looks quite nice if B6 wants to start red-eyes flights between JFK and MDE.
Could B6 A320 take-off from MDE non-stop to JFK around midnight?

There's a good idea! LAN uses a densely configured A320 from BOG to GRU taking off at around 6 am. That is a longer distance than MDE-JFK.
Whilst I can quite imagine that LAN has to leave some seats empty on its BOG-GRU flight, MDE that is slightly lower in altitude than BOG and with the shorter distance* for a JFK route, I can't think that there would be severe restrictions.

*GCM distances
BOG-GRU 2688 miles
MDE-JFK 2375 miles
 
Avianca
Posts: 5274
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

Colombian Aviation thread 12

Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:29 pm

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 6):
daily UIO-LIM A320
3x weekly LIM E190

as per my understanding it is

4 x UIO-LIM
and
3 x LIM

weekly
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
trent772
Posts: 131
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:08 pm

Colombian Aviation thread 12

Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:10 am

Quoting MATURRO727 (Reply 18):
most of Satena's crews are actually retaierd air force pilots i think

Actually most of Satena's pilots are retired Aces pilots flying the ATR.

Quoting MATURRO727 (Reply 18):
Although Its true that automation has reduce significantly the work loads to flight crews and tough now days you might not need super airmanship as the old days

I disagree, automation has indeed reduced workloads greatly but with a new set of tools comes the challenge of making them work correctly and to your advantage. So, sure, the cockpits, aircraft systems and navigational aids of today are nothing like the ones from a couple of decades ago but the concept of Airmanship has and will remain intact for a long time.

Quoting MATURRO727 (Reply 18):
But when the time comes with a real scenario that the computers itself cant solve then you will experience what really is to be a pilot and what your job is really worth

That is the essence of being human, and that is something that no machine can replace. That is why you and many other pilots will be required in cockpits for years to come, the Autopilot can't make decisions.
most flights are uneventful and with today's technologically advanced planes many pilots will retire without experiencing a true gut wrenching emergency, but when it happens hopefully the people up front will have a standard set of flying skills and a Superb set of airmanship skills, I believe someone said it best, "A pilot earns a months pay in ten minutes".

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 20):
At the end of the end, keeping hte workforce happy is essential to run a succesful company.

I couldn't agree with you more. A happy employee is a productive employee.
One thing that is hard to believe is that AV is going thru its biggest expansion in history, having the most amazing earnings that nobody ever dreamed of and management is actually making a big push to take some if not most of the employee benefits away, unbelievable.
If avianca was going thru tough times like many other carriers right now, I would be keen on talking about concessions in order to keep my job, any paycheck is better than no paycheck but again AV is living its best years, just unbelievable.

But I think if you analise AV's owner you'll find the answer pretty quick, a guy who is filthy rich and owns many companies, how do you think he has made all of his money? Not exactly by giving it all to his employees, right? You have to step on many people and shatter many dreams to get to the top, and Mr. G is not known around the world as a philantropist actually quite the opposite.

[Edited 2013-01-17 17:17:09]
Pedaling Squares…
 
A388
Posts: 7194
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Colombian Aviation thread 12

Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:16 pm

Thanks for all the replies regarding the new BOG terminal. I just have to experience it myself I think. Probably in a few years from now  

A388
 
RCS763AV
Topic Author
Posts: 3654
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Colombian Aviation thread 12

Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:20 pm

Quoting Avianca (Reply 23):
as per my understanding it is

4 x UIO-LIM
and
3 x LIM

Thanks for the clarification.

AviancaTaca have received their first A330F through their colombian cargo airline, Tampa Cargo:

http://www.aviacol.net/noticias-del-...icialmente-nuevo-airbus-a330f.html

This makes them the first latin american operator of the type.
 
martinrpo1
Posts: 60
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:40 pm

Colombian Aviation thread 12

Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:29 pm

What new international routes could Colombian airports support in the future?
Here are a few ideas, what do you think?
- BOG-ORD (UA or AV)?
- BOG-LHR (AV or BA)?
- BOG-AMS (KL)?
- BOG-DXB (EK)?
- BOG-IST (TK)?
- BOG-LAX (LA or AV)?
- MDE-GRU (LA or AV)?
- MDE-MEX (AM or AV)?
- MDE-DFW (AA)?
- MDE-IAH (UA)?
- MDE-ATL (DL)?
- MDE-MIA (Additional LA)?
- MTR-PTY (CM)?
- AXM-PTY (CM)?
 
RCS763AV
Topic Author
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Colombian Aviation thread 12

Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:46 pm

Interesting post martinrpo1!

Quoting martinrpo1 (Reply 27):
- BOG-ORD (UA or AV)?

I think that once the BOG hub develops further as a connecting point this route will happen. There is also a substantial colombian community in the Chicago area.

Quoting martinrpo1 (Reply 27):
- BOG-LHR (AV or BA)?

This will surely be launched by AV once the 787s arrive in 2014. BA could return in the future too I guess. The UK and Italy are the largest O/D markets in Europe from Colombia that don't have non-stop service.

Quoting martinrpo1 (Reply 27):
- BOG-AMS (KL)?

It could probably happen in the future as an addition to the AF flight to CDG.

Quoting martinrpo1 (Reply 27):
- BOG-DXB (EK)?

Probably with a stop in CCS in a few years.

Quoting martinrpo1 (Reply 27):
- BOG-IST (TK)?

Same story as above, but might happen sooner.

Quoting martinrpo1 (Reply 27):
- BOG-LAX (LA or AV)?

The resumption of this route will probably come in the hands of LA, but I see AV relaunching it one the 787s arrive too.

Quoting martinrpo1 (Reply 27):
- MDE-GRU (LA or AV)?

Too long/thin, with many connecting options via BOG/LIM/PTY already. Maybe next decade or something.

Quoting martinrpo1 (Reply 27):
- MDE-MEX (AM or AV)?

This one I also see it starting very soon.

Quoting martinrpo1 (Reply 27):
- MDE-DFW (AA)?

The MDE-US market is very thin outside the east coast. Doubt it would work.

Quoting martinrpo1 (Reply 27):
- MDE-IAH (UA)?

Same as above, but it might stand a better chance due to * alliance partnerships and a somewhat larger coolombian community in Houston.

Quoting martinrpo1 (Reply 27):
- MDE-ATL (DL)?

This one I could see working, as ATL is far more convenient for connecting to the Northeast of the US, Eastern Canada and even the Midwest.

Quoting martinrpo1 (Reply 27):
- MTR-PTY (CM)?
- AXM-PTY (CM)?

Those two are way too small to even consider for this round of CM expansion, I would put my bets on SMR-PTY first and the consolidation of BGA and CUC into daily flights. Then maybe AXM could be flown due to it's tourism potential, but it's also only 1 hour away by car from PEI, which they already serve. After that, MTR, VUP, PSO could all be potential CM destinations, all those cities having around 400k inhabitants.

To add to your list, BOG-SJU is a route that I see starting very soon. Same case for BOG-MAR and there's already reports that Easyfly is going to restart AUA-BAQ flights. Also, I see a lot of routes that are going to be launched from CTG in the coming years, specially to north america and europe, and I'm sure LIM will return at some point, probably by AV though. BOG-FCO is also a route that IMO has a lot of potential.
 
martinrpo1
Posts: 60
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:40 pm

Colombian Aviation thread 12

Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:34 am

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 28):

BOG-SJU, BOG-FCO, and SMR-PTY have a lot of potential.
 
777jaah
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Colombian Aviation thread 12

Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:52 pm

Didn't AA said that it was going tonstart BOG-ORD in 3Q/2013?? I'm sure they said something aout it, no exact dates, but can't find it now.
Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
 
bogota
Posts: 652
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 4:10 am

Colombian Aviation thread 12

Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:18 pm

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 30):
Didn't AA said that it was going tonstart BOG-ORD in 3Q/2013?? I'm sure they said something aout it, no exact dates, but can't find it now.

It is BOG-DFW that I heard about.
 
martinrpo1
Posts: 60
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:40 pm

Colombian Aviation thread 12

Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:24 pm

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 30):
Quoting bogota (Reply 31):

DFW-BOG-DFW indeed, daily. Excellent for connecting traffic. I wonder what plane they'll use. 757? Could MDE sustain a 4 weekly DFW-MDE-DFW on a 737? I believe there is enough connecting traffic for this route.
 
2travel2know2
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Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:01 pm

Colombian Aviation thread 12

Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:36 pm

Quoting martinrpo1 (Reply 32):
DFW-BOG-DFW indeed, daily. Excellent for connecting traffic. I wonder what plane they'll use. 757? Could MDE sustain a 4 weekly DFW-MDE-DFW on a 737? I believe there is enough connecting traffic for this route.

An AA B737-800 may be able to take-off from BOG non-stop to DFW.
The key issue w/ an AA DFW-BOG may be the best possible connections available @ DFW for in- and out-bound passengers. If - for an example - AA wants to get some BOG-NRT traffic, AA must time its DFW-BOG and BOG-DFW accordingly.
IMHO, daily DFW-BOG may be too much in low season and DFW-MDE may be only good as high-season weekend only so focus MIA-MDE on O/D traffic (as MDE-U.S.A. traffic is far too MIA/NYC-centric).
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
RCS763AV
Topic Author
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Colombian Aviation thread 12

Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:55 pm

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 33):
IMHO, daily DFW-BOG may be too much in low season

I don't think so at all. UA is packing two daily 757s to Houston. While arguably it is a larger market, AA can easily take some of that connecting traffic. BOG-North America is a huge market and it's quite underserved. Just with traffic to California, Japan and the midwest plus a little western Canada combined with some O/D (it's there but it's just not that big), DFW can work as a daily flight easily year-round.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 33):
and DFW-MDE may be only good as high-season weekend only so focus

So it wouldn't be good at all, MDE not being a leisure destination.
 
airliner777
Posts: 411
Joined: Thu May 25, 2000 6:38 am

Colombian Aviation thread 12

Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:14 pm

For those of you interested, Tampa Cargo's newest A330-200F is enroute to BOG at this time. Aprox arrival time: 18:00 LCL.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/TPA715   
 
777jaah
Posts: 852
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Colombian Aviation thread 12

Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:13 pm

Quoting bogota (Reply 31):
It is BOG-DFW that I heard about.
Quoting martinrpo1 (Reply 32):
DFW-BOG-DFW indeed, daily. Excellent for connecting traffic. I wonder what plane they'll use. 757? Could MDE sustain a 4 weekly DFW-MDE-DFW on a 737? I believe there is enough connecting traffic for this route.

Ohh, yes. My german cousin (alzheimer) playing mind games on me again......

Tehre's been growing rumours on the possibility of TK starting BOG and some of them even mention June. In any case, I bet a stop in CCS on the east bound leg would be necessary, and if the route materialises, that would be great for BOG as it slowly becomes a strong *A in the region, over LIM and PTY.
Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
 
Avianca
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Colombian Aviation thread 12

Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:10 pm

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 36):
Tehre's been growing rumours on the possibility of TK starting BOG and some of them even mention June

heard the same - suppose to start the 21nd of June.
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
LH506
Posts: 246
Joined: Sun May 06, 2007 9:48 am

Colombian Aviation thread 12

Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:16 pm

Quoting Avianca (Reply 37):
Tehre's been growing rumours on the possibility of TK starting BOG and some of them even mention June

heard the same - suppose to start the 21nd of June.



LH will not like it   
NOT FLOWN: 707 717 736/9 77L 788 300B2 300B4 345 359 RJ70/146-100 F27 ATR72 CRJ1/4/10 E120/135/40 Q1/2/3 M87
 
2travel2know2
Posts: 2316
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:01 pm

Colombian Aviation thread 12

Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:39 pm

Quoting LH506 (Reply 38):
LH will not like it

Neither CM   
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
777jaah
Posts: 852
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:38 pm

Colombian Aviation thread 12

Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:40 pm

Quoting LH506 (Reply 38):
LH will not like it

Stabbed in the back by one of your own alliance members? Sounds bad......

LH has made a bet in the colombian and s. american market with AV/TA in *A and reopening BOG. Now if TK launches BOG and CCS, its gonna be aimed primarily in connecting traffic, thus, competing directly with LH. Although good for us consumers, I wonder how that's gonna be handled within the alliance.
Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
 
a300aa
Posts: 298
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 9:12 am

Colombian Aviation thread 12

Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:57 pm

Quoting martinrpo1 (Reply 32):
DFW-BOG-DFW indeed, daily. Excellent for connecting traffic. I wonder what plane they'll use. 757? Could MDE sustain a 4 weekly DFW-MDE-DFW on a 737? I believe there is enough connecting traffic for this route.

A 319 for sure...

AA had problems with their B737/8 out of BOG, thats the reason why they switch their 3rd flight to a 757.
 
jfk777
Posts: 5866
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

Colombian Aviation thread 12

Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:56 am

Quoting a300aa (Reply 41):
A 319 for sure...

AA had problems with their B737/8 out of BOG, thats the reason why they switch their 3rd flight to a 757.

How can AA have 738 problems for a flight to Miami, 1500 miles, when AR flies a 737-700 nonstop all the way to EZE ? BOG to EZE is 3000 miles.
 
a300aa
Posts: 298
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 9:12 am

Colombian Aviation thread 12

Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:43 am

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 42):
How can AA have 738 problems for a flight to Miami, 1500 miles, when AR flies a 737-700 nonstop all the way to EZE ? BOG to EZE is 3000 miles.

Flight was always weight restricted.
The 737/7 and the 737/8 uses the same engine but the 800 is heavier. AA configuration used to be for 160 pax, and the only way to operate it out of BOG was at a very low temperature, thats why they scheduled to depart at 1 am.Pilots complain all the time , and AA decide a change of equipment to a 757 with 3 pilots.
Also rumors are that the flight will become daily , not seasonal, due to its high demand and aceptance by paxs.
 
bogota
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Colombian Aviation thread 12

Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:14 am

MDE -MIA is also operated with a 738 on a daylight flight. Aeromexico also operates the 738 On a far longer flight from Bogotá .

[Edited 2013-01-21 18:15:04]
 
RCS763AV
Topic Author
Posts: 3654
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Colombian Aviation thread 12

Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:09 am

Quoting a300aa (Reply 43):
Flight was always weight restricted.

I could imagine it was in the cargo side that it had to be restricted and maybe some bags that needed to be left behind, also, the denser 160 seat configuration of AA's 737s can pose a problem.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 42):
How can AA have 738 problems for a flight to Miami, 1500 miles, when AR flies a 737-700 nonstop all the way to EZE ? BOG to EZE is 3000 miles.

The 73G is far more capable at high altitude airports than the 738, as is the A319 compared to the A320.

Quoting bogota (Reply 44):
MDE -MIA is also operated with a 738 on a daylight flight.

MDE is 600 meters lower than BOG is and is a slightly shorter flight.

Quoting bogota (Reply 44):
Aeromexico also operates the 738 On a far longer flight from Bogotá .

Yes this one is true, AM's 738 flies form BOG to MEX, both very high altitude airports, and on a flight usually an hour longer than BOG-MIA. Maybe this has to do with the lower density configuration of AM's 738s and the fact that cargo on the BOG-MEX route is not as important as on the BOG-MIA sector.

Quoting a300aa (Reply 43):
Also rumors are that the flight will become daily , not seasonal, due to its high demand and aceptance by paxs.

Wait, the flight operates daily right now, but is only seasonal. So this means that it will probably become year round, yet it has never operated less than daily even if only during the high season.

I actually had thought this flight was a year-round addition.
 
trent772
Posts: 131
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:08 pm

Colombian Aviation thread 12

Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:15 am

Quoting a300aa (Reply 43):
AA decide a change of equipment to a 757 with 3 pilots.

Any ideas on why 3 pilots for a 3 hour flight?

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 45):
The 73G is far more capable at high altitude airports than the 738, as is the A319 compared to the A320.

With 27k engines the difference between the A319 and A320 is negligible at high altitude airports.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 45):
MDE is 600 meters lower than BOG is and is a slightly shorter flight.

It's actually closer to 400mts but they make all the difference in the world, and if flights choose runway 18 for takeoff with a slight downhill slope and lower obstacles planes can lift even more weight, heavy freighters and europe flights do this regularly.
Pedaling Squares…
 
A388
Posts: 7194
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

Colombian Aviation thread 12

Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:48 pm

Hello everybody,

I started a thread some time ago about a potential customer for the Bombardier CSeries in South America and I suggested that AV might be the interested airline. This thread, however, was never posted because there was supposed to be another thread also discussing this which I never found.

So this brings me here, has AV shown an interest in ordering the CSeries to replace their A318 fleet? I know that they were interested in evaluating the CSeries together with the ERJ but I haven't heard anything else since then(?)

A388
 
bogota
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Colombian Aviation thread 12

Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:25 am

Yesterday I flew on a new interior A320. All grey carpets and all grey leather seating, which look quite nice. The crew told me they are all anxious as the new livery and uniforms should be announced any minute now.
 
A388
Posts: 7194
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

Colombian Aviation thread 12

Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:18 pm

Quoting bogota (Reply 48):
Yesterday I flew on a new interior A320. All grey carpets and all grey leather seating, which look quite nice. The crew told me they are all anxious as the new livery and uniforms should be announced any minute now.

Interesting, you are refering to AV I assume. I'm looking forward to the new livery!!! I think it will be a minor change, not like the new AA complete livery change. I hope the A318 and A319 will be one of the first aircraft to be painted in AV's new livery 

A388