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DolphinAir747
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Is Santiago De Chile Still A Go For BA?

Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:59 am

A few months ago there was talk of BA commencing LHR-SCL, perhaps as a continuation of GRU or EZE, with an announcement allegedly about to be made, but it never happened. Does anyone have information on this? LHR-SCL is just shorter than AF's very popular CDG-SCL route, which they fly on the 77W—could BA do it on the 788?
 
Azure
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RE: Is Santiago De Chile Still A Go For BA?

Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:31 am

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Thread starter):
could BA do it on the 788

According to GCM, LHR-SCL is 6280 NM
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=lhr-scl&MS=wls&DU=nm

According to Boeing, the 788 range is 7,650 to 8,200 NM (depending on the seating capacity).
http://www.boeing.com/commercial/787family/787-8prod.html

So theoretically BA could use this airframe for the route...

If I am not mistaken CDG-SCL is AF longest non-stop. Would it be so for BA ?
 
dcajet
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RE: Is Santiago De Chile Still A Go For BA?

Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:17 am

There was never an announcement by BA regarding actually flying to SCL; if memory serves, SCL was mentioned by BA as a potential new destination amongst a bunch of other cities to which BA may consider opening new services to with the 787. That was all.

Currently EZE is BA's longest non stop from LHR, so yes, a potential LHR-SCL would take the crown as far as distance is concerned.

AF service to CDG from SCL has become extremely popular in Chile. partly because it is only one of two European airlines serving SCL - the other being Iberia. There is of course, LAN serving Madrid and Frankfurt from SCL, although FRA is being suspended from April 1 thru June 29 as LA introduces the 787 to the route and aircraft checks need to be performed upon arrival in Madrid leaving no room for the short hop to Frankfurt.
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DolphinAir747
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RE: Is Santiago De Chile Still A Go For BA?

Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:20 am

How large a market is SCL-PEK/PVG/HKG? I know that LA's codesharing with CX on SCL-HKG via JFK, LAX, and of course AKL is one of the only instances of CX cooperating in 1W, and AC must take part of the market with SCL-YYZ-PEK/PVG/HKG.
 
dcajet
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RE: Is Santiago De Chile Still A Go For BA?

Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:54 am

Not enough to survive on its own. Although Chile has a FTA with China, there is not enough volume yet. There are plenty connecting points that serve existing travelers today (SYD/AKL/LAX/SFO/JFK/YYZ/CDG/FRA) In fact the only country in South America that has some volume to Asia (both for business and historical/migration reasons) - and even then I'd love to see the yields on Air China's service to PEK from GRU via MAD - is Brazil.
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DolphinAir747
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RE: Is Santiago De Chile Still A Go For BA?

Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:25 pm

Why does AF perform so well on CDG-SCL then? Some of the highest-yielding SCL-based pax are 1W FFs and may very well prefer BA's service to IB's. plus, with LA downgauging SCL-MAD-FRA, 1W probably doesn't want the lost capacity to be taken by AF.
 
dcajet
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RE: Is Santiago De Chile Still A Go For BA?

Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:46 pm

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 5):

Why does AF perform so well on CDG-SCL then? Some of the highest-yielding SCL-based pax are 1W FFs and may very well prefer BA's service to IB's. plus, with LA downgauging SCL-MAD-FRA, 1W probably doesn't want the lost capacity to be taken by AF.

Because it is the only direct choice from SCL to Europe other than IB and LA's one flight a day to MAD. I suppose LATAM will try to hype TAM to Europe via GRU and there is always EZE from where you can connect via BA, AF, IB, AR, AE, KL, LH, TK, EK, AZ, QR to pretty much anywhere in Europe/Middle East/GCC non stop or one stop.

Folks may well prefer BA to IB, but BA does not fly to SCL. If BA has to be, then a short hop to EZE is called for, or a slightly longer hop to GRU if you prefer so.
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BA0197
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RE: Is Santiago De Chile Still A Go For BA?

Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:08 pm

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 5):
Some of the highest-yielding SCL-based pax are 1W FFs and may very well prefer BA's service to IB's

This is why I think this route would be a good one. That part of the world is booming, and if BA get's there first, they may well have a "home field" advantage. The OW pax as well will help.

A perfect route for the 787 me thinks.
 
SCL767
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RE: Is Santiago De Chile Still A Go For BA?

Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:11 pm

Quoting DCAJet (Reply 6):
other than IB and LA's one flight a day to MAD.

IB just increased frequency on the MAD-SCL route to 9x weekly. In April, LAN will increase frequency on the SCL-MAD route to 9x weekly.
 
incitatus
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RE: Is Santiago De Chile Still A Go For BA?

Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:49 pm

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 8):
IB just increased frequency on the MAD-SCL route to 9x weekly. In April, LAN will increase frequency on the SCL-MAD route to 9x weekly

Isn't the 787 in the LA configuration a slight capacity reduction compared to the A340? If so and the route does well, it seems logical to increase frequency.

Though BA and LA could both enter SCL-LHR 3 x week each and codeshare. That would make for a nice option from SCL to cities in Europe and Asia not well served from MAD.
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SCL767
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RE: Is Santiago De Chile Still A Go For BA?

Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:02 pm

Quoting incitatus (Reply 9):
Isn't the 787 in the LA configuration a slight capacity reduction compared to the A340? If so and the route does well, it seems logical to increase frequency.

A-343=42J/218Y
B-788=30J/217Y

Quoting incitatus (Reply 9):
Though BA and LA could both enter SCL-LHR 3 x week each and codeshare. That would make for a nice option from SCL to cities in Europe and Asia not well served from MAD.

That is a oneworld/LATAM decision. However, LAN is keen on opening new routes to Europe via points in Brazil and non-stop from both SCL and LIM...
 
enginebird
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RE: Is Santiago De Chile Still A Go For BA?

Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:55 pm

One could only hope for a direct BA flight to SCL. Had to be on an IB flight SCL-MAD recently and know now why it was the only direct SCL-Europe flight with seats left several weeks before departure: Terrible IB customer service before the flight, disappointing IB onboard product right out of the seventies and MAD not exactly great and efficient for connections...

I would gladly appreciate any alternative to IB and AF. (Although I doubt they will add another oneworld direct flight to Europe, besides IB and LA.)

[Edited 2013-01-11 08:58:44]
 
incitatus
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RE: Is Santiago De Chile Still A Go For BA?

Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:07 pm

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 10):
That is a oneworld/LATAM decision. However, LAN is keen on opening new routes to Europe via points in Brazil and non-stop from both SCL and LIM...

Another selling point for SCL-LHR is that BA/LA could time the flights to allow good connections AKLLHR, giving BA another product in that market besides the CX connections.
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VCy
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RE: Is Santiago De Chile Still A Go For BA?

Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:17 pm

Im guessing BA's flights to EZE are going well since there was enough demand to operate it directly! So why divide the traffic?
 
TimRees
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RE: Is Santiago De Chile Still A Go For BA?

Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:58 pm

Quoting incitatus (Reply 12):
Terrible IB customer service before the flight, disappointing IB onboard product right out of the seventies and MAD not exactly great and efficient for connections...

I flew UIO-GYE-MAD with IB in Nov 11 in Business class. With such a number of bad reports about IB's service on this site, I must say I wasn't looking forward to the flight having flown LA outbound from MAD-LIM.

Speak as you find, but I was quite impressed with IB once we left GYE. I was a little anxious on the UIO-GYE sector as there was NO service and no announcement that there wouldn't be anything offered. Of course it makes sense that there isn't going to be any service on what is really the middle sector of the flight. However, some sort of reassurance that there would be service later would have been reassuring.

On take off from GYE there was a real step-up in customer service. The lead cabin attendant introduced herself, explained the service, explained the menu, took the order, checked throughout the flight all was well and checked before landing we'd been happy with the service. The seats were comfortable, converted to flat beds, the entertainment system worked and the plane was very clean (an Airbus 340-300). Couldn't really fault it.

So perhaps I was lucky, but the service was up there with LA and BA I'd say........this time anyway!
 
enginebird
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RE: Is Santiago De Chile Still A Go For BA?

Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:00 pm

Quoting TimRees (Reply 14):

I flew UIO-GYE-MAD with IB in Nov 11 in Business class. With such a number of bad reports about IB's service on this site, I must say I wasn't looking forward to the flight having flown LA outbound from MAD-LIM.

Wait until you have to fly IB in coach and you will know what we are talking about...

I only survived SCL-MAD because the seat next to me was empty. The fact that nobody wants to fly IB -- i.e. there is a fair chance of empty seats around you -- is probably the only thing the IB SCL-MAD flight has going for it.
 
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DolphinAir747
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RE: Is Santiago De Chile Still A Go For BA?

Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:16 pm

Quoting incitatus (Reply 12):
her selling point for SCL-LHR is that BA/LA could time the flights to allow good connections AKLLHR, giving BA another product in that market besides the CX connections.

I thought about that too, but this is a longer routing than via HKG, so BA/LA would have to offer cheaper fares on a longer route, which would kill yields.

However, Chile has enough O&D demand to Europe and Asia, and IB, which will cut practically half of its European network this year and does not fly east of DME, cannot help BA with traffic to Asia.
 
LipeGIG
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RE: Is Santiago De Chile Still A Go For BA?

Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:45 am

With LA so strong and as a Oneworld partner, i doubt BA would venture into a non-stop as i don't see that huge SCL-LON market.
They could try to upgauge LHR-GIG to a larger plane (as the current one seems to small for the route... last 2 times i flew, both times packed) and to a premium schedule (only among 3 routes that is daylight LHR-Deep South America).
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
vv701
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RE: Is Santiago De Chile Still A Go For BA?

Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:54 pm

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 3):
I know that LA's codesharing with CX on SCL-HKG via JFK, LAX, and of course AKL is one of the only instances of CX cooperating in 1W

There are many, many other examples of CX code sharing with its oneworld partners.

BA code shares on CX flights beween HKG and AKL, CGK, DPS, KUL, PEN, SGN, and SUB. CX code shares on BA flights between LHR and ARN, CPH, DUS, HAM, LIS, LYS, MAN, MUC, NCE, NCL, PRG, STR, TXL and ZRH and between JNB and CPT, DUR and PLZ.

I think that the greatest number of code share destinations between CX and any one of their oneworld partners is with AA. I believe they code share on flights from either HKG or CX's US gateway cities to more than 30 other destinations. However CX and JL also have a large number of code share flights.
 
jumpjets
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RE: Is Santiago De Chile Still A Go For BA?

Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:06 pm

Wouldn't BA perhaps be better opening up LHR-LIM which then opens up connections with LAN to many more places in the whole of South America and not just feeding passengers down to the bottom of the cone which is a bit out of the way for connecting traffic - except maybe Easter Island.

Now if someone can open up a reasonably priced route to Easter Island i'll be buying a ticket.
 
descl
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RE: Is Santiago De Chile Still A Go For BA?

Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:22 am

Quoting DCAJet (Reply 4):

Emirates and Qatar are taking an important part of chile-asia traffic too.
I dont have statistics, but I dont think the market to asia is that small; and last year, business travelers from Chile to China grew by 30%.

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 5):

Well one of the reasons is that at CDG passengers can connect to many destinations that are not served from MAD, the only other european airport with nonstop service to SCL.

Quoting BA0197 (Reply 7):

  

I have taken BA to SCL via GRU twice and there were a lot of passengers going to Chile, so I think the market for british airways exists.
 
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DolphinAir747
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RE: Is Santiago De Chile Still A Go For BA?

Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:16 am

Quoting deSCL (Reply 20):
Emirates and Qatar are taking an important part of chile-asia traffic too.

Neither of them fly there...do they codeshare with JJ or LA on GRU-SCL flights?
 
descl
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RE: Is Santiago De Chile Still A Go For BA?

Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:57 am

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 21):

Nop, they dont. However, you can easily book a ticket with them. For example, for a trip to from SCL to BKK in march, Expedia shows that the cheapest options are with AR/Qatar viaEZE (2360 US) and LA/EK via GRU or GIG (2590 US).
 
descl
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RE: Is Santiago De Chile Still A Go For BA?

Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:05 pm

Quoting DCAJet (Reply 6):

I found some interesting data regarding connecting traffic to europe from SCL. From OCT/201 to SEPT/2012 210.834 of passengers that took IB or LA to MAD were con transit. The following shows the main O&D markets that utilised flights between Santiago and Madrid.

LHR 24845
ARN 17040
ORY 15479
FCO 11846
BCN 11215
BRU 8951
MXP 8301
ZRH 8130
FRA 7049
AMS 6651
This doesn't show those passengers that flew, for example, SCL-MAD-LHR-DEL, but only the ones that began or ended their journey at the airports listed above.
 
TimRees
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RE: Is Santiago De Chile Still A Go For BA?

Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:27 pm

Quoting enginebird (Reply 15):
Wait until you have to fly IB in coach and you will know what we are talking about...

Haven't flown IB economy for years! Afraid I wouldn't fly any flight over 3 hours down the back if I could help it! I was also fortunate on this occasion that the MAD-LHR sector was an A346. Great plane for relaxing on a european flight!

I did fly on one of their 757s in 'Business' a few years back and that was truly dreadful.....terrible service and a filthy aircraft!

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