worldrider
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SIA Orders 5 A380s And 20 A350-900s

Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:52 am

This is the confirmation of an MUO signed back in october, it's now on the books
i wonder if it's accounted as an 2012 order.
it makes a total 24 A380s for the company, anyone knows how many 350s SIA has on the books?

here is a confirmation link, only in french:
http://fr.news.yahoo.com/airbus-d%C3...-milliards-092312489--finance.html
 
Asiaflyer
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RE: SIA Orders 5 A380s And 20 A350-900s

Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:54 am

SQ has now 40 A350 on order.
SQ,MI,MH,CX,KA,CA,CZ,MU,KE,OZ,QF,NZ,FD,JQ,3K,5J,IT,AI,IC,QR,SK,LF,KL,AF,LH,LX,OS,SR,BA,SN,FR,WF,1I,5T,VZ,VX,AC,NW,UA,US,
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: SIA Orders 5 A380s And 20 A350-900s

Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:03 am

Great news for the A350. The backlog is now:

+ 562
+ 10 (CIT)
+ 20 (SQ)

Total: 592

Air France is also closing on their order for 25 A350 aircraft, that would take the backlog beyond 600 frames before EIS.

[Edited 2013-01-11 02:09:24]
Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK
 
maxter
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RE: SIA Orders 5 A380s And 20 A350-900s

Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:10 am

Congrats Airbus, well done SQ.
Great news for both programs.
maxter
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: SIA Orders 5 A380s And 20 A350-900s

Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:12 am

And the press release:
http://www.airbus.com/presscentre/pr...der-for-more-a380s-and-a350-xwbs/#

The deal was completed in 2012 and follows an agreement in October 2012.
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EPA001
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RE: SIA Orders 5 A380s And 20 A350-900s

Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:32 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 2):
Air France is also closing on their order for 25 A350 aircraft

They are taking their time on this one. The engine maintenance deal seems to be the issue which delays this A350-order.

But good to hear that the SIA-order for the A380's and A350's is now firmed up.  Smile

[Edited 2013-01-11 02:33:26]
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: SIA Orders 5 A380s And 20 A350-900s

Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:37 am

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 5):
They are taking their time on this one. The engine maintenance deal seems to be the issue which delays this A350-order.

True, the MoU dates from 2011. But Reuters and the WSJ are now reporting that they will firm the order by the end of March.
Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK
 
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EPA001
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RE: SIA Orders 5 A380s And 20 A350-900s

Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:39 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 6):
But Reuters and the WSJ are now reporting that they will firm the order by the end of March.

Ah, thanks. That is news to me. Good news!  
 
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BoeingVista
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RE: SIA Orders 5 A380s And 20 A350-900s

Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:56 am

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 5):
They are taking their time on this one. The engine maintenance deal seems to be the issue which delays this A350-order.

Yes they are but Air France CEO Alexandre de Junia commented last week that the order is on track for signing Q1 2013.
BV
 
lhcvg
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RE: SIA Orders 5 A380s And 20 A350-900s

Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:29 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 6):
True, the MoU dates from 2011. But Reuters and the WSJ are now reporting that they will firm the order by the end of March.

A bit OT, but how does Airbus account for orders like this where an MoU was made about 2 years ago, and just finalized in the last few months (where do they recognize the revenue)?
 
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EK413
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RE: SIA Orders 5 A380s And 20 A350-900s

Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:42 pm

Wasn't the A380 order part of a A345 buy back deal...?

EK413
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United885
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RE: SIA Orders 5 A380s And 20 A350-900s

Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:47 pm

I remember that there was an accord between Airbus and SQ, that Airbus would take the A340-500´s back if SQ increase their A350 and A380 order.
Could the A350 be used to replace SQ´s old 772´s and 773´s? Some of them are almost 15 years old.

[Edited 2013-01-11 05:05:00]
I haven´t been everywhere, but it´s on my list.
 
na
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RE: SIA Orders 5 A380s And 20 A350-900s

Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:01 pm

Quoting United885 (Reply 11):
Could the A350 be used to replace SQ´s old 772´s and 773´s? Some of them are almost 15 years old.

No need to wait for the A50, the older 777s are already going now, one is even just being scrapped.
 
Someone83
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RE: SIA Orders 5 A380s And 20 A350-900s

Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:05 pm

Quoting United885 (Reply 11):
Could the A350 be used to replace SQ´s old 772´s and 773´s? Some of them are almost 15 years old.
Quoting na (Reply 12):
No need to wait for the A50, the older 777s are already going now, one is even just being scrapped

SIA will take delivery of quite a few 330-300 and 777-300ER the next few years that will cover this
 
United885
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RE: SIA Orders 5 A380s And 20 A350-900s

Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:10 pm

Quoting Someone83 (Reply 13):

SIA will take delivery of quite a few 330-300 and 777-300ER the next few years that will cover this

You´re right, I remember, that they still have 8 77W and much more A333 on order.

Are there already discussed destinations that could be served with the additional A380´s?
I haven´t been everywhere, but it´s on my list.
 
jfk777
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RE: SIA Orders 5 A380s And 20 A350-900s

Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:21 pm

Quoting na (Reply 12):
No need to wait for the A50, the older 777s are already going now, one is even just being scrapped.

The A330 is doing most of the 777 replacing, the 77W is doing the longer haul routes too small for an A380. Some 777-200ER are still used to smaller European cities like Amsterdam. The A350-900 will probably do almost everything at SQ, from SIN to Australia to possibly nonstop to the USA.
 
jdevora
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RE: SIA Orders 5 A380s And 20 A350-900s

Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:06 pm

Quoting lhcvg (Reply 9):
A bit OT, but how does Airbus account for orders like this where an MoU was made about 2 years ago, and just finalized in the last few months (where do they recognize the revenue)?

As far as I know the order are only counted when they are signed.

JD
 
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Stitch
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RE: SIA Orders 5 A380s And 20 A350-900s

Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:11 pm

Quoting lhcvg (Reply 9):
A bit OT, but how does Airbus account for orders like this where an MoU was made about 2 years ago, and just finalized in the last few months (where do they recognize the revenue)?

They will recognize some revenue at the signing of the MoU as they usually have a small payment attached to them. There will be another payment when the order is firmed and then once the airframe starts assembly, there will be progress payments and then a final payment made upon delivery of the airframe.

As to when the order is recorded on the books, that is when the order is firmed.
 
jumpjets
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RE: SIA Orders 5 A380s And 20 A350-900s

Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:54 pm

Quoting lhcvg (Reply 9):
A bit OT, but how does Airbus account for orders like this where an MoU was made about 2 years ago, and just finalized in the last few months (where do they recognize the revenue)?

In essence the income wont be recognised until they have actually done some work to earn that income - which in broad terms will mainly be their accounting period when they build the plane, So delays between MOU and order may not delay income recognition it doesn't delay the actual manufacture of the plane.
 
FlyboyOz
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RE: SIA Orders 5 A380s And 20 A350-900s

Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:34 pm

Congratulations to SQ and Airbus. SQ has made the right decision.
The Spirit of AustraliAN - Longreach
 
KC135Hydraulics
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RE: SIA Orders 5 A380s And 20 A350-900s

Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:37 pm

Isn't Singapore Airlines having money troubles? I thought they were trying to get rid of pilots due to decreased flying demand/increased competition from gulf carriers. Where is all this money coming from to buy these new aircraft when they're struggling to compete?
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n471wn
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RE: SIA Orders 5 A380s And 20 A350-900s

Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:16 pm

Quoting na (Reply 12):
No need to wait for the A50, the older 777s are already going now, one is even just being scrapped.

Not scrapped by Singapore but by the leasing company---either way an unfortunate decision since no used 777's are for sale. Leasing company obviously did not try too hard to find this bird a new proper home!
 
wolbo
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RE: SIA Orders 5 A380s And 20 A350-900s

Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:45 pm

Could it be that SIA has taken the 5 A380 slots of Kingfisher? IIRC SIA had options for 6 A380 and have now ordered 5 which is equal to the Kingfisher order.
 
B2468
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RE: SIA Orders 5 A380s And 20 A350-900s

Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:09 pm

Great news!

I took my first flight on an A380 this past summer SIN-FRA-JFK (SQ26)...it was a great ride with great service! In terms of comfort and noise in Y, the A380 beats everything else. I didn't even need my earplugs!

Unfortunately I don't travel many places with A380 service, but I am looking forward to my next flight...hopefully on SQ!
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lhcvg
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RE: SIA Orders 5 A380s And 20 A350-900s

Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:21 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 17):
They will recognize some revenue at the signing of the MoU as they usually have a small payment attached to them. There will be another payment when the order is firmed and then once the airframe starts assembly, there will be progress payments and then a final payment made upon delivery of the airframe.

As to when the order is recorded on the books, that is when the order is firmed.
Quoting jumpjets (Reply 18):
In essence the income wont be recognised until they have actually done some work to earn that income - which in broad terms will mainly be their accounting period when they build the plane, So delays between MOU and order may not delay income recognition it doesn't delay the actual manufacture of the plane.

Thank you both! Jumpjets' point is what I was getting at - while you usually don't record revenue until it's "earned" to some extent, I tend to think orders like these might be something where production starts sooner than you would see otherwise because they can always sell the planes to someone who wants to jump in line if need be.
 
byronicle6
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RE: SIA Orders 5 A380s And 20 A350-900s

Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:49 am

Quoting United885 (Reply 14):

AKL (SQ 285/286) has been talked about getting an upgrade to A380 before
Travel is my thing
 
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neutrino
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RE: SIA Orders 5 A380s And 20 A350-900s

Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:46 am

Quoting KC135Hydraulics (Reply 20):

Isn't Singapore Airlines having money troubles? I thought they were trying to get rid of pilots due to decreased flying demand/increased competition from gulf carriers. Where is all this money coming from to buy these new aircraft when they're struggling to compete?

Short of some financial upheaval of which unless you aware of, SQ is currently not having money troubles and they are not getting rid of pilots. They are presently facing short-term excess of flight crew due to the economic slowdown, and the recent action is to encourage captains to go on voluntary no-pay leave (this is a follow-up to last year's similar offer to first officers). Makes financial sense to temporarily lessen the payroll burden on the surplus of highly-paid personnel. Unpaid leave is not termination of service, it is "not getting rid of".

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stori...pore_business/view/1246152/1/.html
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MillwallSean
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RE: SIA Orders 5 A380s And 20 A350-900s

Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:56 am

Quoting KC135Hydraulics (Reply 20):
Isn't Singapore Airlines having money troubles? I thought they were trying to get rid of pilots due to decreased flying demand/increased competition from gulf carriers. Where is all this money coming from to buy these new aircraft when they're struggling to compete?

SQ might not have had a great 2012 but they have been profitable ever year for the last 20 years or so. I wouldnt call that struggle to compete. To the contrary SQ are one of the leaders in the industry and about as blue ribbon as customers come in the airline business.
The fact that their profit will be less for 2012 than for 2011 doesnt mean they are having financial issues. Their cargo division is very cyclical and just like 2010 its bleeding.
Even a quick wikipedia check would have told you that. Even better their financials are online.

So no they don't have any problems to purchase planes with their economy and financials, it'll be a line of banks waiting to provide financing for them. SQ in general is one of the safest airlines in the world to provide financing for. id say 98% of the worlds airlines struggles more than SQ when it comes to financing including every European and North American airline...

You might be worried for how loss making airlines can make large purchases though.
But that hasnt stopped AA, JL etc from buying heaps.
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olddominion727
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RE: SIA Orders 5 A380s And 20 A350-900s

Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:11 am

Amazes that a plane that is not even built and had to go back to the drawing board (pre XWB) has 600 on order
 
chiad
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RE: SIA Orders 5 A380s And 20 A350-900s

Sat Jan 12, 2013 7:01 am

Quoting KC135Hydraulics (Reply 20):
Isn't Singapore Airlines having money troubles?

What ...?
 
SIA is arguable the most well-run airline in the world.
If there ever was a safe order then it's from SIA.
 
warden145
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RE: SIA Orders 5 A380s And 20 A350-900s

Sat Jan 12, 2013 7:20 am

Quoting United885 (Reply 14):
Are there already discussed destinations that could be served with the additional A380´s?

Here's to hoping SQ 1/2 to SFO becomes year-round A380   
ETOPS = Engine Turns Off, Passengers Swim
 
dcajet
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RE: SIA Orders 5 A380s And 20 A350-900s

Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:20 am

Quoting warden145 (Reply 30):
Here's to hoping SQ 1/2 to SFO becomes year-round A380

Amen to that! It is past midnight - after a long week - but is SFO # 1 with 380 ops or does JFK take the crown?

Cheers
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flipdewaf
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RE: SIA Orders 5 A380s And 20 A350-900s

Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:19 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 17):
They will recognize some revenue at the signing of the MoU as they usually have a small payment attached to them. There will be another payment when the order is firmed and then once the airframe starts assembly, there will be progress payments and then a final payment made upon delivery of the airframe.

Where I work(nothing to do with the airline industry) we follow a 40/50/10 rule normally for large equipment orders.

40% of price paid when we order, 50% paid on delivery and the last 10% (kind of assumed to be the companies profit) is paid after either 6months or a year on the basis that the machine performs to expectations, I would have expected airlines to have this last 10% part (or something similar) in the pay timescales?

Fred
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warden145
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RE: SIA Orders 5 A380s And 20 A350-900s

Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:42 am

Quoting DCAJet (Reply 31):
Amen to that! It is past midnight - after a long week - but is SFO # 1 with 380 ops or does JFK take the crown?

I imagine it's between JFK and LAX. LAX is getting A380's from SQ, QF, KE, and AF. I want to say there are a couple more either active or planned, but I don't know for sure. Not sure how many JFK gets now.

As of this moment, SFO's only getting an A380 from SQ...LH just shifted back to the 747-430 for the "off" season. I don't know of anyone else who's even thinking of serving SFO with the A380...
ETOPS = Engine Turns Off, Passengers Swim
 
cmf
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RE: SIA Orders 5 A380s And 20 A350-900s

Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:00 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 17):
They will recognize some revenue at the signing of the MoU as they usually have a small payment attached to them.

Detail alert... They typically receive a down payment at time of signing, and at other points before delivery, but revenue is not recognized until delivery, accounting basics.
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United885
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RE: SIA Orders 5 A380s And 20 A350-900s

Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:37 am

Quoting Chiad (Reply 29):
SIA is arguable the most well-run airline in the world.
If there ever was a safe order then it's from SIA.

  

They had +335 million S$ net income in 2012.
I haven´t been everywhere, but it´s on my list.
 
azjubilee
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RE: SIA Orders 5 A380s And 20 A350-900s

Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:22 pm

I might have missed it... Does SQ have an order for only 900s Or a mix of the type?
 
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Stitch
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RE: SIA Orders 5 A380s And 20 A350-900s

Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:45 pm

Quoting azjubilee (Reply 36):
Does SQ have an order for only 900s Or a mix of the type?

They have -900s, but it is assumed they can change them for -800s or -1000s if they wish.
 
trex8
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RE: SIA Orders 5 A380s And 20 A350-900s

Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:30 pm

Quoting cmf (Reply 34):
Quoting Stitch (Reply 17):
They will recognize some revenue at the signing of the MoU as they usually have a small payment attached to them.

Detail alert... They typically receive a down payment at time of signing, and at other points before delivery, but revenue is not recognized until delivery, accounting basics.

from CI annual report 2009 pg 60 (sorry but for some reason I cant copy and paste the pdf) .
http://www.china-airlines.com/en/about/about_ar.htm
for the 14 A359 costing 3.9 billion US$ and options on 6 costing 1.8 billion they paid Airbus 119 million for "prepayment".
 
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RayChuang
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RE: SIA Orders 5 A380s And 20 A350-900s

Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:36 pm

My guess is that with the additional A380's, SQ will finally get two routes to fly the A380 year-round: SIN-NRT-LAX and SIN-HKG-SFO. SQ will assign the 777-300ER to other long-range routes.
 
changyou
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RE: SIA Orders 5 A380s And 20 A350-900s

Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:55 am

Due to bad planning, SQ graduated more pilots into their system than expansion could cope. And at the same time promotion exercise within the tech crew was on going therefore there's surplus of pilots today. To clear the air, SQ is not down sizing. Just merely bad planning by recruitted too many cadets few years ago.

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