jumpjet
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BA A380 Crew Training Flights

Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:50 pm

I can recall, somewhere in the deep and distant past, that BA intended to use their first A380 on crew training flights from LHR to MAD. Was it to be two return flights a day?

Does anyone know if this has been firmed up, or if it's indeed correct?

Any A-Netters fancy a day trip to Madrid in the summer?
 
LHRFlyer
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RE: BA A380 Crew Training Flights

Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:23 pm

Nothing has been announced yet. Although there is a logic of using MAD as it is an IAG hub, depending on how things go over the next few years, it could be a little insensitive and rub salt into wounds..
 
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DolphinAir747
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RE: BA A380 Crew Training Flights

Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:03 pm

I've heard BCN from BA crew. Take it with a grain of salt, but considering BA's volume to BCN it would make sense.
 
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SKAirbus
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RE: BA A380 Crew Training Flights

Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:32 pm

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 2):
I've heard BCN from BA crew. Take it with a grain of salt, but considering BA's volume to BCN it would make sense.

Also, doesn't BCN have a couple of A380 gates at the new terminal? Didn't think MAD was A380 ready??
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bthebest
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RE: BA A380 Crew Training Flights

Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:05 pm

They operate a couple of 767 flights to MAD but all BCN flights are A320. Would indicate MAD could handle the larger volumes.
 
TCX69K
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RE: BA A380 Crew Training Flights

Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:26 pm

I have heard FRA will now be used for crew training flights as apposed to MAD as FRA is experienced in A380 operations. That said though, isn't it only T1 at FRA that has A380 gates? BA flies from T2.
 
VS11
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RE: BA A380 Crew Training Flights

Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:02 pm

Maybe follow AF's steps and fly to Paris. Wasn't part of the training to get more trips, not just hours?
 
vv701
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RE: BA A380 Crew Training Flights

Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:21 pm

If the past is a guide to the future this is what happened when BA received their first 772A, G-ZZZA, the last totally new long-haul aircraft to enter service with them:

21 May 96: a. LHR on delivery
22 May 96: LHR-DXB-MCT-DXB-LHR (BA123/22)
23 May 96: LHR-DXB-MCT-DXB-LHR (BA123'22)
24 May 96: LHR-DXB-MCT-DXB-LHR (BA123/22)
25 May 96: LHR-RUH-LHR (BA135/34)
26 May 96: LHR-CAI-LHR (BA155/54)
27 May 96: LHR-CAI-LHR (BA155/54)
28 May 96: LHR-JED-LHR (BA155/54)
29 May 96: LHR-DXB-MCT-DXB-LHR (BA123'22)
30 May 96: LHR-DXB-MCT-DXB-LHR (BA123'22)
31 May 96: LHR-JED-LHR (BA155/54)
1 June 96: LHR-RUH-LHR (BA135/34)
2 June 96: LHR-CAI-LHR (BA155/54)
3 June 96: LHR-CAI-LHR (BA155/54)
4 June 96: LHR-JED-LHR (BA155/54)
5 June 96: LHR-CDG-LHR (BA322/23). LHR-RUH-LHR (BA135/34)
6 June 96: LHR-CDG-LHR (BA322/23)

It was then dedicated to the LHR-DXB-MCT-DXB-LHR (BA123'22) rotation at least until 11 June. This rotation may have been selected for a large number of the aircraft's initial operations because it offered twice the number of landings and take-offs than most other routes. However there were but two short-haul (obviously training) rotations in the first three weeks of operations. But, just as that guy trying to sell you a Unit Trust has to say, "past (financial) performance is not necessary a guide to likely future performance"
 
RedSnapper
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RE: BA A380 Crew Training Flights

Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:26 pm

Quoting tcx69k (Reply 5):
I have heard FRA will now be used for crew training flights as apposed to MAD as FRA is experienced in A380 operations. That said though, isn't it only T1 at FRA that has A380 gates? BA flies from T2.

Korean operate A380s to FRA and use T2 don't they? Also didn't the first A380 demo/proving flights into FRA used T2, so no problems on that score.

Cheers
RS
 
mfc
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RE: BA A380 Crew Training Flights

Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:27 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 3):
Didn't think MAD was A380 ready??

MAD T4S has two A380 gates and taxiways and runways are A380 ready.
So, we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past
 
spud757
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RE: BA A380 Crew Training Flights

Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:53 pm

Quoting tcx69k (Reply 5):

Send it to MAN. They're experienced in handling the A380   
 
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EK413
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RE: BA A380 Crew Training Flights

Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:08 am

Both Terminals at FRA underwent major renovations in order to handle the A380...

I'm curious if the Tech Crew are going to receive any training onboard QF A380's... I know MH received training onboard QF aircraft... Any thoughts...?

EK413
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egph
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RE: BA A380 Crew Training Flights

Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:13 am

Wouldn't be surprised if CDG and FRA turn out to be the bulk of BA A380 initial operations. MAD is likely but would certainly not be my first guess. Could actually also see them maybe doing a run or two to MAN if they have the time.

[Edited 2013-01-11 20:12:42]
 
factsonly
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RE: BA A380 Crew Training Flights

Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:57 am

BA's A380 training flights will consider a number of operational conditions that must be fulfilled to serve training purposes, such as:

- Number of take-offs/landings per day i.e. two LHR -XXX rotations per day vs. one multi-stop route per day.
- Ground time at outstation for adequate turn-around and resolving technical issues.
- Number of passengers and flight duration for cabin training, A380's long-haul product requires longer sectors.
- Airport A380 handling capability - runways, gates, etc.
- Distance from LHR for major techical issues, cost and time to recover aircraft.
- Marketing requirements, BA promotion in certain important markets while on ground at outstation.

This leads to the following observations:
- European destinations offer short hops & are low cost, permitting multiple daily rotations, but do not meet cabin training requirements.
- Middle East destinations with multiple sectors are ideal for cockpit and cabin training.
- North American destinations are single sector and perhaps too much like regular service.

The following example stations could qualify:
- ABZ - A320 flight with 1h:40m turnaround ...short flight, domestic promotion, but is the airport capable?
- AMS - B767 flight with 1h:50m turnaround...short flight, airport capable. Good for cockpit, not for cabin training.
- ARN - A319 flight with 3h:15m turnaround...medium flight, airport capable. Good for cockpit, less for cabin
- MAD - B767 flight with 1h:10m turnaround....short turnaround, medium distance, possible with delay!
- MCT - B777 flight with 2h:30m turnaround...multi-stop, good distance, good cockpit and cabin training
 
egph
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RE: BA A380 Crew Training Flights

Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:03 am

Quoting factsonly (Reply 13):
The following example stations could qualify:
- ABZ - A320 flight with 1h:40m turnaround ...short flight, domestic promotion, but is the airport capable?
- AMS - B767 flight with 1h:50m turnaround...short flight, airport capable. Good for cockpit, not for cabin training.
- ARN - A319 flight with 3h:15m turnaround...medium flight, airport capable. Good for cockpit, less for cabin
- MAD - B767 flight with 1h:10m turnaround....short turnaround, medium distance, possible with delay!
- MCT - B777 flight with 2h:30m turnaround...multi-stop, good distance, good cockpit and cabin training

ABZ is a no as the airport is nowhere near capable. I think the only domestic route which would be A380 feasible would be MAN but it's only a 45 min hop. GLA is 1hr and has ample experience in the last few months of EK A343 aircraft for what that's worth. EDI (my home airport, please come here BA) has handled A346 (on special VS charters) and B747 (various one offfs) but have no capable gates for either they had to be dealt with through a remote stand. I think we only have 1 stand capable of dealing with heavies and that is Stand 6 and that only accommodates up to B767 aircraft. I think AF did once use it for a B747 charter but they had to block out 4 adjacent stands either side.

AMS I could see happening

ARN is currently a route frequently tasked to B767-300 a/c so again could do

MAD is highly likely

MCT could also happen with the big turnaround

I still think FRA and CDG should up there possibly with MAD as top contenders for the early days.
 
spud757
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RE: BA A380 Crew Training Flights

Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:28 am

I was being a bit facetious when I said MAN.
In reality the A380 ready gate at MAN T1 is dedicated to the 3 daily EK flights (1 of these operated on A380).
BA operate into MAN T3 so doubt it will happen as they'd have to operate from a remote stand.

Is DME capable? despite only being a short sector under 4 hours, LHR-DME on BA is a roundtrip, longhaul service so good for cabin crew experience.

CAI is another relatively short sector with longhaul service. Could that be an option?
 
skipness1E
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RE: BA A380 Crew Training Flights

Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:39 pm

I would expect an airfield capable of normal operations, A380 airbridge equipped and ready as delayed and missed connections cost a lot of money if passengers are kept mucking about on busses with no need. Is the BA terminal at CDG A380 ready? Not sure it is. If they use AMS they're on a different pier to the rest of the operation, MAD would be T4 as normal. GLA isn't likely as it's a bussing job, as is MAN. FRA is possible with airbridge direct at T2. We shall see.
 
flyingalex
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RE: BA A380 Crew Training Flights

Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:46 pm

Quoting tcx69k (Reply 5):
I have heard FRA will now be used for crew training flights as apposed to MAD as FRA is experienced in A380 operations. That said though, isn't it only T1 at FRA that has A380 gates? BA flies from T2.

This reply:

Quoting RedSnapper (Reply 8):
Korean operate A380s to FRA and use T2 don't they? Also didn't the first A380 demo/proving flights into FRA used T2, so no problems on that score.

is 100% correct.

In addition, when LH did some charter flights around Europe with their first A380 before putting it into scheduled service, they staged the flights from T2 so as not to interfere with regular operations at T1.

In terms of ground handling, FRA would be a good choice. However, I think the route is too short to get the cabin crew used to the aircraft. It's usually just a bit over an hour. A good practice run for the drivers though!

The other upside is that they could probably manage three returns per day, rather than the two per day that were mooted for LHR-MAD-LHR A380 ops.
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by738
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RE: BA A380 Crew Training Flights

Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:47 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 16):
GLA isn't likely as it's a bussing job

...from the end of the runway ? Its not taxiway/ turn off capable
 
skipness1E
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RE: BA A380 Crew Training Flights

Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:34 pm

Ah it's my good friend BY738. GLA can handle A346s and B744s easily and I wonder just how hard it would be to handle the A388? Minor details like taking out the Loganair hangar notwithstanding. Have you moved house dear boy? What takes you to er......wherever you are now?
 
avion660
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RE: BA A380 Crew Training Flights

Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:52 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 7):
If the past is a guide to the future this is what happened when BA received their first 772A, G-ZZZA, the last totally new long-haul aircraft to enter service with them:

A little off-topic, and apologies for being pedantic but BA's first 772A was not ZZA but ZZC then ZZD in November and December '95. I flew on ZZC in Jan 96 to CDG on one of the crew training flights. What intrigued me though was where you were able to get the first flights info for ZZA. Is this a source that you can share? DXB and CAI was also used for flights for those other aircraft as you listed for ZZA too.
 
vv701
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RE: BA A380 Crew Training Flights

Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:22 pm

Quoting avion660 (Reply 20):
A little off-topic, and apologies for being pedantic but BA's first 772A was not ZZA but ZZC

Thanks for the correction.

Initially 'ZC also operated LHR-DXB-MCT (17 Nov 95). Along with 'ZD and 'ZE once they were delivered (29 Dec and 13 Jan respectively) it was then dedicated for the rest of the 1995-96 Winter Timetable to LHR-CAI-LHR, LHR-CDG-LHR and LHR-DXB-MCT-DXB-LHR rotations. Here it is worth noting that at that time LHR-CAI-LHR at 2,197 miles was the shortest BA long-haul rotation so was next best thing to a short-haul flight.
 
babybus
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RE: BA A380 Crew Training Flights

Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:27 pm

Because of its unusual size it would be better perhaps to send it to another A380 airport like FRA or CDG or even DXB.

The very short AF A380 LHR-CDG trial flights didn't give the staff an opportunity to trial how long it takes to serve passengers. The attendants ran out of time just serving a tea and a biscuit.

Is LHR Termainl 5 A380 ready? Don't remember seeing any gates with loads of bridges.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
vv701
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RE: BA A380 Crew Training Flights

Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:03 pm

Quoting babybus (Reply 22):
Is LHR Termainl 5 A380 ready?

It was reported almost seven years ago - that is two years before the terminal was opened and just a year after the 380 's first flight - that two stands at LHR T5 were already ready to receive the 380:

http://www.1blueplanet.com/community/index.php?topic=244.0
 
Tristarsteve
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RE: BA A380 Crew Training Flights

Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:25 pm

Quoting EGPH (Reply 14):
ARN is currently a route frequently tasked to B767-300 a/c so again could do

ARN has only one gate that can take an A380. F39. But the taxiway behind it is too narrow, so gates F38 F40 and F42 must be left empty for the A380 wingspan. (It looks awfully close with a B744!)
So we are expecting one proving flight for publicity, but no more. (as long as we can get a towbar!)
 
skipness1E
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RE: BA A380 Crew Training Flights

Sat Jan 12, 2013 7:04 pm

There's six I think, I'd need to double check my laptop but from memory they're the northernmost stands on T5C, three on either side.

[Edited 2013-01-12 11:06:54]