jetblueguy22
Topic Author
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Pilot Arrested For Flying Over Power Station

Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:06 pm

I found this interesting article from the AOPA today. Apparently a glider pilot was arrested for flying over a Nuclear Power plant back in July. Local police officers charged him with breach of peace for the action which was not illegal. There is no restriction on the sectional saying he couldn't fly over the station. The charges were later dropped in exchange for his promising not to sue. I honestly can't believe that this isn't a bigger deal. The guy did nothing illegal. I understand security but this is over the top.
http://www.aopa.org/aircraft/article....mc_id=130111epilot&WT.mc_sect=gan
Blue
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Maverick623
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RE: Pilot Arrested For Flying Over Power Station

Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:24 pm

He needs to find a new lawyer. 30 hours in a jail cell, for a stinkin' breach-of-peace charge? No way would I ever agree to such a deal in those circumstances.

It's too bad the UNICOM operator didn't tell the cops to beat feet when the FAA told them there was no harm done, and it's too bad the pilot didn't know any better to high tail it to another airport.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
RussianJet
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RE: Pilot Arrested For Flying Over Power Station

Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:44 pm

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 1):
No way would I ever agree to such a deal in those circumstances.

Surely there is no 'deal' that could possibly be lawful stipulating that the defendant may not sue in the event of illegal detention or wrongful arrest?? Surely a deal is only a deal if it's lawful.
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
bthebest
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RE: Pilot Arrested For Flying Over Power Station

Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:00 pm

Think he needs a better attorney - how did the attorney not see it as a massive cash cow!
 
Maverick623
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RE: Pilot Arrested For Flying Over Power Station

Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:24 pm

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 2):
Surely there is no 'deal' that could possibly be lawful stipulating that the defendant may not sue in the event of illegal detention or wrongful arrest??

Such deals are not illegal in the US, which is pretty unfortunate, as many people are given such "deals" when their rights were clearly violated.

I wonder if he could still request that the FBI look into it as a civil rights violation, as well as a breach of jurisdiction (the FAA specifically told him he was not required to land, and they have exclusive jurisdiction over the skies).
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
RussianJet
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RE: Pilot Arrested For Flying Over Power Station

Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:35 pm

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 4):
Such deals are not illegal in the US, which is pretty unfortunate, as many people are given such "deals" when their rights were clearly violated.

Incredible. it stands to reason that any deal made by the cops on the basis of 'we were wrong' in the first place is a total nonsense.
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
NASCARAirforce
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RE: Pilot Arrested For Flying Over Power Station

Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:39 pm

“’Haven’t you heard about 9/11?’—that’s what they said to me.”

Typical response from some inbred buck tooth good ol boy cop. That is all they can think about when the collective IQ of the police force does not reach triple digits. The 9/11 excuse for everything - accidentally flying over a power plant, being an aircraft spotter, taking pics of a bridge, blow a fart in the crowd etc.

This guy needs to get himself a good lawyer and sue that Barney Fife Police Force for what he had to endure. That was an unlawful arrest and I don't think they could force him down. Do you think the State Police would have gotten involved had he flown on to another county or would they not have bothered?
 
peterinlisbon
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RE: Pilot Arrested For Flying Over Power Station

Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:49 pm

As far as I know it's ok to fly over buildings... what is not allowed since 9/11 is to fly into them.
 
iFlyLOTs
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RE: Pilot Arrested For Flying Over Power Station

Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:04 am

Quoting peterinlisbon (Reply 7):
what is not allowed since 9/11 is to fly into them.

Call me crazy but I don't think that's ever been allowed.

If this happened where I'm from almost every pilot would get arrested because the 45-entry to the downwind on one of the runways is right over a power plant.
"...stay hungry, stay foolish" -Steve Jobs
 
silentbob
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RE: Pilot Arrested For Flying Over Power Station

Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:22 am

Quoting iFlyLOTs (Reply 8):
If this happened where I'm from almost every pilot would get arrested because the 45-entry to the downwind on one of the runways is right over a power plant.

I can only imagine the number of violations that would have accrued from passing over Three Mile Island on the way into KMDT.
 
prosa
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RE: Pilot Arrested For Flying Over Power Station

Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:28 am

The cops need to be fired, forced to turn over all of their assets to this pilot, and then imprisoned.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
SPREE34
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RE: Pilot Arrested For Flying Over Power Station

Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:03 am

Quoting PROSA (Reply 10):

The cops need to be fired, forced to turn over all of their assets to this pilot, and then imprisoned.

Yup. Little boys with big badges.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
freakyrat
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RE: Pilot Arrested For Flying Over Power Station

Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:14 am

How many of you have heard about the FDC NOTAM in effect since 9/11 that restricts flight in vicinity of Nuclear Power Plants, Dams, etc? It has been updated several times. The latest from the FAA website is as follows:

FDC 4/0811 SPECIAL NOTICE

THIS IS A RESTATEMENT OF A PREVIOUSLY ISSUED ADVISORY NOTICE.
IN THE INTEREST OF NATIONAL SECURITY AND TO THE EXTENT PRACTICABLE, PILOTS ARE
STRONGLY ADVISED TO AVOID THE AIRSPACE ABOVE, OR IN PROXIMITY TO SUCH SITES AS
POWER PLANTS (NUCLEAR, HYDRO-ELECTRIC, OR COAL), DAMS, REFINERIES, INDUSTRIAL
COMPLEXES, MILITARY FACILITIES AND OTHER SIMILAR FACILITIES. PILOTS SHOULD NOT
CIRCLE AS TO LOITER IN THE VICINITY OVER THESE TYPES OF FACILITIES.
WIE UNTIL UFN.
 
DiamondFlyer
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RE: Pilot Arrested For Flying Over Power Station

Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:23 am

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 12):
How many of you have heard about the FDC NOTAM in effect since 9/11 that restricts flight in vicinity of Nuclear Power Plants, Dams, etc? It has been updated several times. The latest from the FAA website is as follows:

No, it doesn't restrict a thing. It asks pilots to avoid those areas, but in no way, shape or form, is that NOTAM enough to violate a pilot.

-DiamondFlyer
From my cold, dead hands
 
Maverick623
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RE: Pilot Arrested For Flying Over Power Station

Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:25 am

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 12):
How many of you have heard about the FDC NOTAM in effect since 9/11 that restricts flight in vicinity of Nuclear Power Plants, Dams, etc?

It's not a restriction: it's an advisory. Big difference.


There was nothing that this guy did that warranted an arrest, period, much less talk of "shooting him down" (I'd be curious to find out how the local police would arrange that).
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
freakyrat
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RE: Pilot Arrested For Flying Over Power Station

Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:29 am

But we all know how the authorities interpret things.
 
Mir
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RE: Pilot Arrested For Flying Over Power Station

Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:01 am

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 15):
But we all know how the authorities interpret things.

Then we need to get smarter authorities who know the difference between "pilots are prohibited from...." and "to the extent practicable, pilots are strongly advised to...."

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Maverick623
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RE: Pilot Arrested For Flying Over Power Station

Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:30 am

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 15):
But we all know how the authorities interpret things.

Nobody interpreted anything here. This was nothing more than a power-tripping small-town cop who made up rules on the spot in complete defiance of the FAA and his own helicopter pilot. My bet is that he doesn't even know what a NOTAM is.

What's sad is that this guy was even cooperating the whole time, and the local d-bags still wanted to throw the book at him.

I also can't believe that his lawyer would allow him to talk to DHS of all people. Really?
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
Passedv1
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RE: Pilot Arrested For Flying Over Power Station

Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:16 am

Quoting NWAdeicer (Reply 18):
Jeebus Cripes, Fer ****s Sake. This little gem has to take the cake. Are you people this stupid to make a comment like this? Seriously? Tell me PROSA, how many years should he be imprisoned? 5-10? Lifetime? Why not just execute him, get it over with quickly, make an example of him.

I agree, but I it was intended as hyperbole so I think you could use a chill-pill to. I do agree that if not the individual officers, at the very least, the agencies need to be held responsible for the behavior of their officers. "We'll drop the charges if you don't sue." It's hard to imagine not taking this deal as to people in aviation it is obvious how ridicules this fiasco was, it might not be so obvious to your "peers" in the rurual south.

If a plea agreement is a contract, and contracts can be voided if it is found to be agreed upon under-duress, would that apply in this case or does the fact that he had a lawyer eliminate that argument.

Where are those officers from? Georgia, okay, tell them i'll meet them in South Carolina.
 
skywaymanaz
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RE: Pilot Arrested For Flying Over Power Station

Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:36 am

This has happened a few times here in Arizona with pilots circling near Palo Verde nuclear power plant. I fly over it all the time, no problem. However I don't immediately turn over it and make circles. If I did then I'd probably make one of those headlines. Unfortunately there are a lot of police everywhere, and not just here in Arizona, that would love to have an arrest they could in any way imply was domestic terrorism. One of my instructors was threatened with arrest by a police officer after she and a student had to make a forced landing. Fortunately cooler heads quickly prevailed above that officer. Wickenburg Airport had an Air Force jet crash there in '09, luckily no casulties. Unfortuantely they forgot to put up a NOTAM closing the airport. Planes from various flight schools kept landing there until the NOTAM was put up. There is no control tower there and supposedly no one came on the advisory frequency to warn them away. I heard at least one pilot was threatened with being made an example out of since PD alledgedly said there was no way they couldn't see the plane from the air. Let's see an airplane painted in desert camoflauge the pilot should have been able to see from the air. Let me think about this. At any rate the plant NOTAM has been in force for years and as long as you don't practice turns around a point there you're unlikely to get in trouble for that.
 
SAAFNAV
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RE: Pilot Arrested For Flying Over Power Station

Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:48 am

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Thread starter):


He needs to find a new lawyer. 30 hours in a jail cell, for a stinkin' breach-of-peace charge? No way would I ever agree to such a deal in those circumstances.

Sorry guys,

But have you ever thought to think about how it looks to the rest of the world when Americans start suing left and right?

Don't get me wrong, I love the US, but the amount of frivolous law cases is just astonishing for foreigners.

Erich
On-board Direction Consultant
 
skywaymanaz
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RE: Pilot Arrested For Flying Over Power Station

Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:11 am

Quoting saafnav (Reply 20):
the amount of frivolous law cases is just astonishing for foreigners

It's astonishing for a lot of us that live here. I don't know about South Africa but many nations have a loser pays penalty in their civil legal system. The US does not and any attempt at reform along these lines is viciously attacked by ambulance chasing attorneys as infringing on the rights of a hypothetical little old lady being victimized by others with impunity. At any rate I wouldn't call detaining someone w/o cause a frivilous lawsuit. If I got put in jail overnight for legally operating my airplane in full compliance with FAR's and all current NOTAM's I'd be hiring an attorney too.
 
RIXrat
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RE: Pilot Arrested For Flying Over Power Station

Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:46 am

Speaking of Three Mile Island, I was a journalist in Philadelphia at that time and when the initial warning sounded we immediately rented a helicopter and overflew the nuclear power base, along with the vent stacks. We were not the only ones. Later, all of the TV news channels did the same and no ATC ordered these overflies out of the area, or grounded. Mind you, this was pre 9-11.
 
jhooper
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RE: Pilot Arrested For Flying Over Power Station

Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:17 pm

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 12):
FDC 4/0811 SPECIAL NOTICE

THIS IS A RESTATEMENT OF A PREVIOUSLY ISSUED ADVISORY NOTICE.
IN THE INTEREST OF NATIONAL SECURITY AND TO THE EXTENT PRACTICABLE, PILOTS ARE
STRONGLY ADVISED TO AVOID THE AIRSPACE ABOVE, OR IN PROXIMITY TO SUCH SITES AS
POWER PLANTS (NUCLEAR, HYDRO-ELECTRIC, OR COAL), DAMS, REFINERIES, INDUSTRIAL
COMPLEXES, MILITARY FACILITIES AND OTHER SIMILAR FACILITIES. PILOTS SHOULD NOT
CIRCLE AS TO LOITER IN THE VICINITY OVER THESE TYPES OF FACILITIES.
WIE UNTIL UFN.

Big difference between a NOTAM and a criminal law violation.
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
NWADC9
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RE: Pilot Arrested For Flying Over Power Station

Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:39 pm

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 12):
PILOTS SHOULD NOT CIRCLE AS TO LOITER IN THE VICINITY OVER THESE TYPES OF FACILITIES.

It, however, does not prohibit a glider from circling in a thermal above the power plant to sustain lift.

Quoting saafnav (Reply 20):
Don't get me wrong, I love the US, but the amount of frivolous law cases is just astonishing for foreigners.

Yes, suing McDonald's because your coffee's too hot is a bit far-fetched. However, being illegally detained is a textbook example of a legitimate case.
Flying an aeroplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that? -Capt. Picard
 
Maverick623
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RE: Pilot Arrested For Flying Over Power Station

Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:54 pm

Quoting NWADC9 (Reply 24):
Yes, suing McDonald's because your coffee's too hot is a bit far-fetched.

  

I find it hilarious that people still think that was a frivolous lawsuit.

You should read up on it sometime.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
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Revelation
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RE: Pilot Arrested For Flying Over Power Station

Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:14 pm

Quoting NWADC9 (Reply 24):
It, however, does not prohibit a glider from circling in a thermal above the power plant to sustain lift.

My cousin is a glider pilot in the UK and he says it's quite common to circle over the local power plant because it is a reliable source of thermals. Clearly the stuff going up the smokestack is warmer than the ambient air, otherwise it wouldn't be going up, right?

I suppose a glider pilot could cause some damage if he dove towards some vulnerable point in a power plant, but then again so could any other GA pilot. Chances are they'd only do "economic" damage. I watched a containment dome go up and it seems at best all a GA plane would do is chip the concrete and bend some re-bar.

In any case, if there's a NOTAM telling me to stay away, that's what I'd do, yet if I did happen to get busted for it, I would get a better lawyer than this guy got for himself.
Inspiration, move me brightly!
 
skywaymanaz
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RE: Pilot Arrested For Flying Over Power Station

Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:17 pm

Quoting NWADC9 (Reply 24):
suing McDonald's because your coffee's too hot is a bit far-fetched

At the risk of hijacking the thread that was not a frivolous case. The jury award was insane though and that helps make everyone think that. The coffee was deliberately served at a high enough temperature to cause 3rd degree burns. Yes coffee is supposed to be hot but not that hot. The women in question was burned severely enough she needed extensive skin grafts. Calling it frivolous is like saying beer is supposed to be cold but I lost my finger tips touching the can. I think the jury in that case got very angry that this particular McDonald's thought it was ok to serve coffee that hot in violation of health laws because a few customers complained it got to cold by the time they drank it when purchased at the drive thru.

Back to the thread if I were that pilot I'd not have taken the deal to release the officers involved from liability in exchange for dismissing the charges. Whether what the pilot did was legal or not local PD has no jurisdiction over Federal airspace. The FAA had to shout very loudly at NYPD over this very issue some years back when NYPD tried to enforce a NOTAM intended to cover outdoor sporting events without consulting federal authorities. The NOTAM literally read any outdoor event with more then 35,000 people initially. NYPD interpreted that to mean it covered the beaches on Long Island in their jurisdiction. Do you see more then 35,000 people here? I do, don't you? That seemed to be the logic they used to intercept and detain two banner towing pilots with their police helicopters. They arrested the pilots and confiscated their licenses over it. Something they had absolutely no legal authority to do in any way shape or form. The NOTAM was rewritten to specifically state MLB, NFL, NCAA college division I games after this.

According to the article the Darlington County Sheriff Department was not asked by any Federal agency to intervene in this matter. They took it upon themselves to act and did so with a laughable charge that a jury likely would have tossed. The doubt factor, however small, is why most people would have taken the deal since appeals get costly. The county sheriff's office clearly needed an expensive trip thru civil court to respect the rights of the people they are entrusted to protect. We can only hope they learned their lesson in this case.
 
toneale
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RE: Pilot Arrested For Flying Over Power Station

Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:26 pm

The hot coffee suit was frivolous - I've studied the case at length. Yes, the coffee was hot - guess what, McDonalds still serves it that hot. Hot coffee will cause injury when you do what Ms. Liebeck did. Her own negligence cause her injuries.

As for this poor pilot, I'm not landing unless ordered by the FAA. Local yokels have no jurisdiction and under no circumstances am I waiving my right to sue these guys for depriving me of my liberty for 1 second, let alone 30 hours.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Pilot Arrested For Flying Over Power Station

Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:29 pm

Where I used to live before in Germany there are several huge coal burning power plants fed from several nearby huge lignite mines. The local glider pilots like to circle in the warm updraft from the plant´s cooling towers to gain altitude.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
SPREE34
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RE: Pilot Arrested For Flying Over Power Station

Sat Jan 12, 2013 7:07 pm

Quoting saafnav (Reply 20):
Don't get me wrong, I love the US, but the amount of frivolous law cases is just astonishing for foreigners

This case is not frivolous. The man did nothing illegal. The Police acted outside of the law and their purview. They should be held accountable.

Quoting NWADC9 (Reply 24):

Yes, suing McDonald's because your coffee's too hot is a bit far-fetched. However, being illegally detained is a textbook example of a legitimate case.

     

Quoting toneale (Reply 28):
The hot coffee suit was frivolous - I've studied the case at length. Yes, the coffee was hot - guess what, McDonalds still serves it that hot. Hot coffee will cause injury when you do what Ms. Liebeck did. Her own negligence cause her injuries.

     
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Pilot Arrested For Flying Over Power Station

Sat Jan 12, 2013 7:14 pm

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 30):
This case is not frivolous. The man did nothing illegal. The Police acted outside of the law and their purview. They should be held accountable.

  

There are plenty of areas of US law that need some reform. A few of them have been discussed or hinted at in this thread. And some might argue that there are areas of the civil rights laws that need reform. But our system for holding police officers and other government officials accountable through the civil justice system works reasonably well.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
AA94
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RE: Pilot Arrested For Flying Over Power Station

Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:52 pm

Quoting saafnav (Reply 20):
Don't get me wrong, I love the US, but the amount of frivolous law cases is just astonishing for foreigners.

I agree. We've created a culture of unaccountability, where you can sue Airline X for "emotional distress" for scratching up your suitcase and slap a $20 million price tag on it ... even though common sense often prevails, and these idiots get their cases thrown out, there's no punishment for wasting taxpayer time and money, not to mention that of the jury and judge who are forced to hear such nonsense.

... that said ...

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 30):
This case is not frivolous. The man did nothing illegal. The Police acted outside of the law and their purview. They should be held accountable.


  

Quoting skywaymanaz (Reply 27):
Back to the thread if I were that pilot I'd not have taken the deal to release the officers involved from liability in exchange for dismissing the charges.

I agree totally with your sentiments, but the pilot was definitely in a tough situation. Faced with a cop who was already way overstepping his authority, there were probably all sorts of things racing through this man's head. It's hard to think into the future and have faith that proper justice will prevail when you've already been confronted with abusers of authority.
If you can't take the heat, you best get out of the kitchen
 
Mir
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RE: Pilot Arrested For Flying Over Power Station

Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:53 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 26):
I suppose a glider pilot could cause some damage if he dove towards some vulnerable point in a power plant

Almost certainly not. Gliders are so light that he'd have had difficulty doing damage to anything more solidly built than a port-a-cabin.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 26):
I watched a containment dome go up and it seems at best all a GA plane would do is chip the concrete and bend some re-bar.

A glider would be lucky to do that much. There'd probably be zero evidence of impact after it was all said and done.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Maverick623
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RE: Pilot Arrested For Flying Over Power Station

Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:11 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 33):
Quoting Revelation (Reply 26):
I suppose a glider pilot could cause some damage if he dove towards some vulnerable point in a power plant

Almost certainly not. Gliders are so light that he'd have had difficulty doing damage to anything more solidly built than a port-a-cabin.

  

The reactor containment domes are designed to withstand a direct impact from just about anything except a large bomb or a large jet full of fuel going very fast.

A glider (or even a light twin) would literally bounce off the thing.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
skywaymanaz
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RE: Pilot Arrested For Flying Over Power Station

Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:25 pm

Quoting AA94 (Reply 32):
I agree totally with your sentiments, but the pilot was definitely in a tough situation. Faced with a cop who was already way overstepping his authority, there were probably all sorts of things racing through this man's head.

There's what I would do and then there's what others would do. I had the impression from watching his interview on AOPA Live that he's either not an American citizen or an immigrant. That's just a whole nother wrench, right or wrong, that could influence a jury. Plus realistically if I was in my senior years like him I'd have to ask myself is it worth letting this thing consume my remaining days or is it time to move on. Life's to short at that age so I don't blame him for moving on. I'm still young enough I'd have some fight in me if I was treated that way.
 
802flyguy
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RE: Pilot Arrested For Flying Over Power Station

Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:07 am

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 17):
This was nothing more than a power-tripping small-town cop who made up rules on the spot in complete defiance of the FAA and his own helicopter pilot. My bet is that he doesn't even know what a NOTAM is

I have some friends who are LEOs, but the buffoonish / over zealous behavior shown by the cops in this case re enforces the worst Barney Fife/ Buford T Justice stereotypes of small town Southern cops. I am trying to visualize three police caps with lights and siren chasing a sailplane down the runway.

I do hope the pilot gets at the very least an apology.
 
Mir
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RE: Pilot Arrested For Flying Over Power Station

Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:28 am

Quoting 802flyguy (Reply 36):
I do hope the pilot gets at the very least an apology.

Considering the police let him go on the grounds that he agreed not to suggest that they did anything wrong, I can't see that happening.   

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
JohnJ
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RE: Pilot Arrested For Flying Over Power Station

Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:57 pm

Apparently the glider pilot isn't a Bruce Springsteen fan, or he would have been warned off that area:

Driving out of Darlington County
My eyes seen the glory of the coming of the Lord
Driving out of Darlington County
Seen Wayne handcuffed to the bumper of a state trooper's Ford
 
SAAFNAV
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RE: Pilot Arrested For Flying Over Power Station

Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:16 pm

I'm not saying this would be frivolous, but I doubt if suing would be my first action?

What will you sue him for? Mental Anguish worth $2 million?

Truthfully, the amount of cases where people so, where they themselves had not take due diligence, or blame the company for their own actions, is astounding. (Let's not talk McDonalds now).

Anyway, back to the topic: I don't know about the US, but in South Africa, sensitive installations like ammunition factories or nuclear power plants would have restricted or prohibited area declared.

For a power plant this would normally be 2nm radius and 1 500' agl. This is to ensure, that should you encounter an engine loss etc, you have sufficient height to clear the installation.

The actual pressure dome a nuclear station would take more than a couple of gliders to breach the containment.

Erich
On-board Direction Consultant
 
SAAFNAV
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RE: Pilot Arrested For Flying Over Power Station

Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:30 pm

I'm busing doing some background studying (starting Air Accident Investigation Course next week), found this.

Remains of a Nimbus 4DM glider after a fatal accident. In glider terms, this aircraft is huge.

On-board Direction Consultant
 
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enilria
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RE: Pilot Arrested For Flying Over Power Station

Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:40 pm

Quoting JohnJ (Reply 38):
Seen Wayne handcuffed to the bumper of a state trooper's Ford

Well, at least they buy American for something to drag you behind. :p
 
Maverick623
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RE: Pilot Arrested For Flying Over Power Station

Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:03 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 37):
Considering the police let him go on the grounds that he agreed not to suggest that they did anything wrong, I can't see that happening.

Just read a follow-up article on AOPA.

The Sheriff said that they overreacted, and should have let the pilot go once he was on the ground. He blames the FBI for the 30-hour jail stint, saying they were told by the FBI to hold the pilot until they could question him, and that he used the BS "disorderly conduct" charge to justify the hold. He also denied that the prosecutor told the pilot that he would have to waive his right to sue in order for charges to be dropped (which I think is illegal anyways).

Sounds like an overzealous security team (they had reported their own helicopter prior to this incident) exaggerated the incident, and the overzealous Sheriff's Dept. was, well, overzealous. AOPA got on their case, and they agreed to work with them to learn more about this sort of thing.

If it were me, I'd sue just because I think it's BS that you can be held on a DC charge because someone else overreacted.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
UA772IAD
Posts: 1269
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2004 7:43 am

RE: Pilot Arrested For Flying Over Power Station

Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:52 am

Quoting toneale (Reply 28):

The hot coffee suit was frivolous - I've studied the case at length. Yes, the coffee was hot - guess what, McDonalds still serves it that hot. Hot coffee will cause injury when you do what Ms. Liebeck did. Her own negligence cause her injuries.

That is a reductionist argument. I too have studied the case extensively in the context of juror decision making in relation to punitive damages, and the intial case was not frivilous. Serving coffee beyond recommended brew temperatures- which caused third degree burns, which McDonalds had received numerous (700 in the previous decade) DOCUMENTED complaints about prior to the lawsuit - to people in to-go cups to drink in vehicles is negligent.

Liebeck was an elderly woman who received severe burns and initially asked that McDonalds only cover her medical costs- to which they refused.

McDonalds lost the case big time in terms of punitive and compensatory damages (they did settle later for an undiscolsed settlement)- and they do NOT serve their coffee at boiling temperatures anymore. I had a cup from the drive through the other day. I could start sipping it right away.

Quoting NWADC9 (Reply 24):
t, however, does not prohibit a glider from circling in a thermal above the power plant to sustain lift.

Meteorology question- does the steam from the plant create thermals or weather patterns useful for gliders?

[Edited 2013-01-19 00:03:57]
 
rwessel
Posts: 2448
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 3:47 pm

RE: Pilot Arrested For Flying Over Power Station

Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:04 am

Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 43):
Meteorology question- does the steam from the plant create thermals or weather patterns useful for gliders?

Definitely. You're not going get multiple thousands of feet out of it, but it's definitely there. Just make sure the plant is actually running.

You can also catch thermals on sunny days over big parking lots and things like that. At one field I used to fly at there was a church with a good sized asphalt parking lot a couple of miles north of the field. Usually good for a couple of hundred feet if you were dragging back in from the north. Or maybe it was rising hot air from all the prayer.   
 
skywaymanaz
Posts: 636
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RE: Pilot Arrested For Flying Over Power Station

Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:06 pm

AOPA Live this week covers some of the reaction over this incident. They mentioned a Congressional committee chairman thought there should be hearings. I'm not holding my breath on that. I found it amusing that the Sheriff responded they weren't given the opportunity to comment on this story. AOPA says they left numerous messages with the Sheriff's spokesman and never got a response.
 
Goldenshield
Posts: 5005
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RE: Pilot Arrested For Flying Over Power Station

Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:29 pm

Quoting saafnav (Reply 40):
Remains of a Nimbus 4DM glider after a fatal accident. In glider terms, this aircraft is huge.

Interesting that it charred like that. I'm assuming that it was a self-launch glider? The worst that a normal glider would do is break up, not char.
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
 
rwessel
Posts: 2448
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 3:47 pm

RE: Pilot Arrested For Flying Over Power Station

Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:58 pm

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 46):
Quoting saafnav (Reply 40):
Remains of a Nimbus 4DM glider after a fatal accident. In glider terms, this aircraft is huge.

Interesting that it charred like that. I'm assuming that it was a self-launch glider? The worst that a normal glider would do is break up, not char.

The -DM is the two seat ("D") self-launching ("M") version.
 
sprout5199
Posts: 1681
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 8:26 am

RE: Pilot Arrested For Flying Over Power Station

Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:54 am

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 42):
The Sheriff said that they overreacted, and should have let the pilot go once he was on the ground. He blames the FBI for the 30-hour jail stint, saying they were told by the FBI to hold the pilot until they could question him, and that he used the BS "disorderly conduct" charge to justify the hold. He also denied that the prosecutor told the pilot that he would have to waive his right to sue in order for charges to be dropped (which I think is illegal anyways).

Sounds like an overzealous security team (they had reported their own helicopter prior to this incident) exaggerated the incident, and the overzealous Sheriff's Dept. was, well, overzealous. AOPA got on their case, and they agreed to work with them to learn more about this sort of thing.

If it were me, I'd sue just because I think it's BS that you can be held on a DC charge because someone else overreacted.

I am a pilot, but I do work for a law enforcement agency, so I can see both sides. Local LEOs always get the blame for things like this. If two days later, this same guy crashed into the plant scratching the paint, the LEOs would get blamed because they had a report of him "casing the plant" two days before. They did what they thought was prudent, however they should have listened to the other counties' aviation deputies when they were told that no regs were broken. But when the FBI gets involved(local guy calls Washington--hey we have this, what do we do?--FBI--I don't know, hold them till we get there) so local LEO holds the guy, FBI shows up, no harm no foul, and the local LEOs get blamed. The local thought is "better safe than sorry" as MANY local agencies have been blamed for many things that "slipped under the radar" of Washington in the past. The FBI thought is "hey we didn't hold the guy. they did", not on us.
Can he sue? SURE. Is the world better because of this? YES, at least this county and every other county should now know the rules and regs. Has a great big injustice been done? NO. many mistakes were made, hopefully lessons were learned, and actually the people of that county are safer knowing that 1. Their local LEOs do take their job seriously and investigate things that are out of the ordinary. 2. Their Sheriff can admit when his department made mistakes and will learn from those mistakes(A sign of a true Law Enforcement Officer) 3. That small airplanes are not the enemy, powered or not.

I think the biggest issue is that the plant "thought" there was a "no fly zone" over the plant. They should know the regs better than anyone else. I have flown within 1 mile horizontal and 2000' above St Lucie nuc plant, but could have gotten even closer as there is nothing on the sectional except a little flag nothing a check point.

So I guess what I am saying is don't blame local Law Enforcement for doing their job, don't blame the pilot for flying where he can. Sometimes things get screwed up, that's what happens when you are human.

Dan in Jupiter
 
Bureaucromancer
Posts: 113
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RE: Pilot Arrested For Flying Over Power Station

Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:25 am

Quoting sprout5199 (Reply 48):
Has a great big injustice been done? NO.

To be perfectly honest THIS is the kind of comment that makes me lose patience with law enforcement. What part of the fifth amendment don't you (LEO's in general, I'm not particularly upset with you the poster personally, just annoyed by the sentiment) understand? The man was held, for thirty hours, against his will, with no due process or even so much as evidence that a crime had been committed in the first place (for that matter, what on earth was that business with not allowing him outside contact, it seems to only serve to make the experience needlessly unpleasant and contrary to any sort of civility; even if he had committed a crime let the man make a damn phone call so people can, you know, FIND HIM). No, it didn't drag on for years, but this sort of thing seems like damn near the most fundamental mistake a police officer can make; he arrested a person who was innocent of any crime without so much as evidence he might have. Moreover, honest mistake or not, and later corrected or not, how can you possibly claim that such a mistake is not a major injustice?

Quoting sprout5199 (Reply 48):

Sometimes things get screwed up, that's what happens when you are human.

And in fairness this is quite true. My problem is that far too many LEOs use that to say or imply that there isn't a problem after they make them. If you make a mistake, clean it up; far too many LEOs will bend over backwards to AVOID fixing their mistakes. The agency in question here seems to have eventually figured out they were wrong, and admitted it, which is better than most, but I maintain that to say there was no injustice done is asinine.