71Zulu
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Another Fuel Leak On JAL 787

Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:31 pm

What is going on?

Was a cause determined for the last leak?



TOKYO (AP) -- Japan Airlines has reported a fuel leak in a Boeing 787 Dreamliner for the second time in a week amid a U.S. safety review of the aircraft.

Narita International Airport outside of Tokyo says JAL reported a 100-liter fuel leak in a 787 during an inspection Sunday. The aircraft reportedly was the same one that had a fuel leak in Boston last week.


http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-01-13-09-59-44
Clickable links only please!
 
BoeingVista
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RE: Another Fuel Leak On JAL 787

Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:05 pm

Last weeks leak was attributed to a faulty valve.
BV
 
F9Animal
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RE: Another Fuel Leak On JAL 787

Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:52 pm

Guys! This is totally normal. Its a new airplane. We should start a thread that has 787 mechanical issues thread!  
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
CF-CPI
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RE: Another Fuel Leak On JAL 787

Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:18 pm

Quoting 71Zulu (Thread starter):
The aircraft reportedly was the same one that had a fuel leak in Boston last week.

Perhaps we've just found the dog in JAL's 787 fleet. Every fleet has one: NW's A320 N302NW ('Christine' the Airbus from Hell) and TW L1011 N11005 (chronic landing gear issues). I'll be convinced of true 787 problems when a pattern of similar malfunctions shows up across multiple aircraft.
 
n471wn
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RE: Another Fuel Leak On JAL 787

Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:36 pm

Quoting CF-CPI (Reply 3):
Every fleet has one: NW's A320 N302NW ('Christine' the Airbus from Hell

No such registration
 
sweair
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RE: Another Fuel Leak On JAL 787

Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:43 pm

Any issue will be blown up on the web and here where so many seem to dislike Boeing and its products. Its getting old and tired IMO.
 
CF-CPI
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RE: Another Fuel Leak On JAL 787

Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:43 pm

Quoting n471wn (Reply 4):
No such registration

N302US
 
PHX787
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RE: Another Fuel Leak On JAL 787

Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:48 pm

In other news, I changed my underwear this morning  
Guys, read that snippet from the AVherald about all this. Fuel leaks happen all the time for a plethora of reasons. This is only sensationalist media.
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
tdscanuck
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RE: Another Fuel Leak On JAL 787

Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:13 pm

Quoting 71Zulu (Thread starter):
Narita International Airport outside of Tokyo says JAL reported a 100-liter fuel leak in a 787 during an inspection Sunday. The aircraft reportedly was the same one that had a fuel leak in Boston last week.

Since it's the same airplane, it's far more likely that this is the same cause as the last leak and they just didn't fix it the first time. Having the same symptom on the same airplane with two independent causes is not unheard of, but it's really rare. They're probably working their way through the Fault Isolation Manual.

Tom.
 
National757
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RE: Another Fuel Leak On JAL 787

Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:25 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 7):
Guys, read that snippet from the AVherald about all this.

Can you post the link? I've looked and can't find anything on the AVherald about a 787 Fuel Leak
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Another Fuel Leak On JAL 787

Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:34 pm

"An open valve on the aircraft caused fuel to leak from a nozzle on the left wing used to remove fuel, a company spokeswoman said."

"In Boston, a different valve on the plane opened, causing fuel to flow from the centre tank to the left main tank."

"The causes of both incidents are unknown, the JAL spokeswoman added. There is no timetable for the plane to return to service."

The whole story can be found at http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...amliner-test-idUSL4N0AI08120130113
Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK
 
fca767
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RE: Another Fuel Leak On JAL 787

Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:44 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 7):
In other news, I changed my underwear

fly by wire?
 
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Stitch
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RE: Another Fuel Leak On JAL 787

Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:55 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 10):
"An open valve on the aircraft caused fuel to leak from a nozzle on the left wing used to remove fuel, a company spokeswoman said."

"In Boston, a different valve on the plane opened, causing fuel to flow from the centre tank to the left main tank."

Is fueling and de-fueling performed with different attachment points to the fuel system?

If not, I wonder if both incidents involve the same valve and the nuance is being "lost in translation".

[Edited 2013-01-13 11:57:24]
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Another Fuel Leak On JAL 787

Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:08 pm

The article is not very clear, I agree.

To me it sound like JAL was testing the frame and they could reproduce the Boston fuel leak.
Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK
 
PHX787
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RE: Another Fuel Leak On JAL 787

Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:11 pm

Quoting fca767 (Reply 11):

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 7):
In other news, I changed my underwear

fly by wire?


  
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b78710
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RE: Another Fuel Leak On JAL 787

Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:56 pm

Does the 787 have jettison capabilities?
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Another Fuel Leak On JAL 787

Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:56 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 7):
In other news, I changed my underwear this morning

Someone start a thread.....

It is interesting that the 100 liters of fuel spilled at NRT is about the same amount of fuel spilled in BOS, 40 US Gallons.
 
FlexJetOKC
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RE: Another Fuel Leak On JAL 787

Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:17 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 16):
Does the 787 have jettison capabilities?

I'm assuming you're talking about fuel dumping? Yes, it can. Check this video out. It features testing on the Fuel Jettison System. It's pretty neat! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoDQrkSGIZc
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wjcandee
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RE: Another Fuel Leak On JAL 787

Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:01 pm

With respect to these incidents, the fuel jettison isn't implicated. Rather, it might possibly be related to the system by which overflow is vented overboard so as to not impinge the integrity of the wing.

If you pump too much fuel into the wing tank, it goes overboard. It doesn't ask, it just goes.

This can happen because you flip the pump on to move fuel from the CWT into a wing tank that is already-full.

It can also happen on some aircraft when you are drawing fuel from the CWT to use in the engines. Because the fuel system always moves *more* fuel to the engine than it can consume (same thing with diesel engines), the excess gets returned to the fuel tank, except that it goes back to the wing tank not the center tank. Running off the center tank, you can overfill the wing tanks if you aren't careful, resulting in a stream of fuel venting overboard.

Accordingly, it seems to me that in the 40-gal Boston spill and the 25-gal recent venting, this could well be pilot error, although the airline seems to think otherwise.

It is interesting, however, that these events are happening to JAL, who put the aircraft into long-haul service very quickly, and not to ANA, which really took its time. Suggests the possibility, at least, of training hiccups.

[Edited 2013-01-13 15:03:33]
 
soon7x7
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RE: Another Fuel Leak On JAL 787

Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:03 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 7):
In other news, I changed my underwear this morning

Where did you hear that...Fox News?
 
flood
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RE: Another Fuel Leak On JAL 787

Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:54 am

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 18):
Accordingly, it seems to me that in the 40-gal Boston spill and the 25-gal recent venting, this could well be pilot error, although the airline seems to think otherwise.

The spill at BOS was attributed to a faulty valve, according to a JAL spokesman. I also find pilot error rather unlikely as they will have been working with Boeing on the issue and yet the plane has been out of service for some 5 days now.

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 18):
It is interesting, however, that these events are happening to JAL, who put the aircraft into long-haul service very quickly, and not to ANA, which really took its time. Suggests the possibility, at least, of training hiccups.

Possible, sure... anything is possible. Including the Airbus ninja striking again  
 
KC135Hydraulics
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RE: Another Fuel Leak On JAL 787

Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:15 am

Fuel leaks... no big deal! I run a hydraulic mule on KC-135s for defuels on nearly a daily basis. Reason? Fuel leaks. We've got a revovling door of 135s going through fuel cell for maintenance due to fuel leaks. Granted, 50 year old jet vs. brand new production, but when you have 30k+ gallons of fuel sloshing around it's inevitable these things will happen. Valves do go bad too. I've seen fuel venting overboard on the 135 quite a bit due to bad fuel level control valves being stuck open and overfilling a body tank, which will vent overboard when maxed out.
MSgt, USAF
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tdscanuck
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RE: Another Fuel Leak On JAL 787

Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:16 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 12):
Is fueling and de-fueling performed with different attachment points to the fuel system?

No. There is an independant valve that must be opened to enable defuelling but it's the same connector to the truck.

Quoting b78710 (Reply 15):
Does the 787 have jettison capabilities?

Yes.

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 18):
Because the fuel system always moves *more* fuel to the engine than it can consume (same thing with diesel engines), the excess gets returned to the fuel tank, except that it goes back to the wing tank not the center tank.

No. The 787 doesn't use a return-to-tank system. The fuel pumps just deadhead against the engine. Excess fuel does not come back to the tank.

Tom.
 
KC135Hydraulics
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RE: Another Fuel Leak On JAL 787

Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:18 am

Does anyone know what they're using on the 787 for couplings? For example, do they use Marman or Wiggins fittings for joining fuel lines together? I can easily see how some new hire at the production line could incorrectly assemble something like a Marman clamp if that's what they're still using. They hold for a little while and then decide to pop catastrophically when they can't take it anymore.
MSgt, USAF
KC-135R / C-17A Pneudraulic Systems Mechanic Supervisor
 
BIZJETTECH
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RE: Another Fuel Leak On JAL 787

Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:40 am

That is why airlines employ maintenance personnel!!! Every aircraft has issues, even new ones. If the news covered every aircraft maintenance issue, nobody would ever fly again.
 
wjcandee
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RE: Another Fuel Leak On JAL 787

Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:27 am

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 22):
No. The 787 doesn't use a return-to-tank system. The fuel pumps just deadhead against the engine. Excess fuel does not come back to the tank.

Ah. Danged newfangled technology eliminating one potential reason that fuel going overboard ain't the plane's fault!!  

[Edited 2013-01-13 20:42:51]
 
seahawks7757
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RE: Another Fuel Leak On JAL 787

Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:51 am

Let us not forget that fuel leaks was something that plagued the 787 test program too, as seen here. It happens-
http://www.flickr.com/photos/seahawk...42541587/in/set-72157623814122375/

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