YOWVIEWER
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Air Transat Announcement, New Planes?

Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:57 am

Read a report that Air Transat has a major employee announcement coming up, seems that their partnership with Canjet is ending next spring and they might be purchasing some smaller aircraft. Mentions Boeing 737's, as some of their existing pilots are already rated on them. Anyone have some insight as to what might be happening here as they realign themselves to better handle Sunwing and Rouge ?

http://www.montrealgazette.com/Trans...ents+this+month/7808942/story.html
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Air Transat Announcement, New Planes?

Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:27 pm

I guess the best we can do is wait and see. Unions don't have more info and if some employees have, they better stay silent until the official announcement in two days.
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: Air Transat Announcement, New Planes?

Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:50 pm

Didn't they just sign up with CanJet for another couple of years?

Why do that when you are going to buy your own 737s.

Thenoflyzone
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Air Transat Announcement, New Planes?

Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:16 pm

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 2):
Didn't they just sign up with CanJet for another couple of years?

This is a quote from the paper:

But Transat and CanJet were not able to agree on renewing their joint deal and the agreement ends in April 2014.

I don't remember when what you are referring to happened, but if indeed in a year from now that agreement will end, they have no other choice but to act now if the want to stay in that market.

Transat was long the dominant player in wholesale packages to Europe and the Caribbean.

Now they have to adjust. Remember they reported net losses of $16.7 million for 2012, compared with $14.7 million the previous year.
 
YOWVIEWER
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RE: Air Transat Announcement, New Planes?

Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:07 pm

I have flown Air Transat a few times recently, Paris, Orlando, and Punta Cana to name a few. I have always found their services great, and I am hoping this split with Canjet is only a small blip. Fingers crossed !
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: Air Transat Announcement, New Planes?

Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:27 pm

Well it is obvious TS needs smaller aircraft than the A310s and A330s for some of their Caribbean runs, especially from secondary Canadian cities, such as Ottawa, Quebec, Regina, Saskatoon, etc.

a B738 or A320 are ideal aircraft for such routes. Not to mention that it gives them a possibility to open up new regional markets, much like Sunwing has, i.e YUY, YVO, YZV, YBG, YYB etc.

This being said, if they decide to BUY these aircraft, they will be stuck with them in the summer, as these planes dont have the legs for Canada-Europe.

The best option here is to find another lessor. It's a shame the deal with CanJet didn't work out.

Interesting times ahead for TS. Hope it all works out in the end. Would hate to see Transat Inc. get rid of TS.

Thenoflyzone
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
aircanadaa330
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RE: Air Transat Announcement, New Planes?

Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:18 pm

A few years back I heard that they were looking at the 787 and A350...could this possibly have something to do wtih it?
If not has there been any news about that?
Would be nice to see the A350 here in Canada along side the 787

thanks
Cheers;
 
yxu737
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RE: Air Transat Announcement, New Planes?

Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:56 pm

Any idea what time some sort of announcement is going to be made today?
 
lostsound
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RE: Air Transat Announcement, New Planes?

Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:03 pm

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 5):
This being said, if they decide to BUY these aircraft, they will be stuck with them in the summer, as these planes dont have the legs for Canada-Europe.

Depending on how large their fleet of narrowbodies would be, they could easily lease them out or place them on high demand routes within NA like YYZ-LAX or even use them for Hawaii. Maybe NEOs or MAXs could be ordered?

Quoting AirCanadaA330 (Reply 6):
A few years back I heard that they were looking at the 787 and A350...could this possibly have something to do wtih it?

  

Seems like a more likely story. It was a couple years back that they started their review.

Quoting AirCanadaA330 (Reply 6):
Would be nice to see the A350 here in Canada along side the 787

I agree! We may not have many airlines, but it'd be great to atleast have a large diversity of aircraft here.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Air Transat Announcement, New Planes?

Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:07 pm

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 5):
Well it is obvious TS needs smaller aircraft than the A310s and A330s for some of their Caribbean runs, especially from secondary Canadian cities, such as Ottawa, Quebec, Regina, Saskatoon, etc.

a B738 or A320 are ideal aircraft for such routes. Not to mention that it gives them a possibility to open up new regional markets, much like Sunwing has, i.e YUY, YVO, YZV, YBG, YYB etc.

This being said, if they decide to BUY these aircraft, they will be stuck with them in the summer,

Agree on all these points. TS actually operated 734's on winter leases 10+ years ago. I think if they acquire NB's, it will also be on a winter-only basis.

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 5):
It's a shame the deal with CanJet didn't work out.

Agreed. Hope Canjet can survive with the loss of this revenue.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
flyyul
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RE: Air Transat Announcement, New Planes?

Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:14 pm

Transat needs planes in the summer - they're very thin on markets in Cuba/Dominican/Mexico due to WBs flying to Europe. If they need these airplanes - it would be summer not winter.
 
shuttle9juliet
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RE: Air Transat Announcement, New Planes?

Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:17 pm

Should have hanged on to the 757s
 
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yyz717
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RE: Air Transat Announcement, New Planes?

Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:27 pm

Quoting shuttle9juliet (Reply 11):
Should have hanged on to the 757s

The 752 would serve TS well with summer TA and winter sun capability and as a general A313 replacement (in most A313 markets). Would be ironic if they added the 752 again.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
shuttle9juliet
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RE: Air Transat Announcement, New Planes?

Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:38 pm

The 757 for TS is ideal, plus they really should have got a handful of 763 too, pilot commonality would have worked.Saying that the 310 works but sometimes it's just too big.

I wonder if management ever regret about getting rid of them? Saying that why did they get rid of them, ideal for long thin routes like ABZ,EDI,NCL Exeter ect
 
rampbro
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RE: Air Transat Announcement, New Planes?

Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:46 pm

Quoting flyyul (Reply 10):
Transat needs planes in the summer - they're very thin on markets in Cuba/Dominican/Mexico due to WBs flying to Europe. If they need these airplanes - it would be summer not winter.

There's far less market to those types of places ex-Canada in the summer, dramatically so from smaller markets. If anything those planes would be better put to use flying domestically, either on sched or in the charter market.

Maybe TS will announce a C-Series order!
 
YYZYYT
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RE: Air Transat Announcement, New Planes?

Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:55 pm

Quoting lostsound (Reply 8):
Depending on how large their fleet of narrowbodies would be, they could easily lease them out or place them on high demand routes within NA like LAX or even use them for Hawaii. Maybe NEOs or MAXs could be ordered?

I know! TS could use them to start scheduled service between YYZ-YOW and YYZ-YUL! That would be an excellent strategy for a charter airline!  

[Edited 2013-01-16 09:59:05]

[Edited 2013-01-16 10:00:25]
 
lostsound
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RE: Air Transat Announcement, New Planes?

Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:13 pm

Quoting YYZYYT (Reply 15):
I know! TS could use them to start scheduled service between YYZ-YOW and YYZ-YUL! That would be an excellent strategy for a charter airline!

I think you misunderstood.

YYZ/YOW/YUL to LAX, LAS, JFK, MCO, TPA, MIA as well as YVR/YYC/YEG to Hawaii are vacation traffic that is fairly strong in the summer.
 
YYZYYT
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RE: Air Transat Announcement, New Planes?

Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:33 pm

Quoting lostsound (Reply 16):
Quoting YYZYYT (Reply 15):
I know! TS could use them to start scheduled service between YYZ-YOW and YYZ-YUL! That would be an excellent strategy for a charter airline!

I think you misunderstood.

YYZ/YOW/YUL to LAX, LAS, JFK, MCO, TPA, MIA as well as YVR/YYC/YEG to Hawaii are vacation traffic that is fairly strong in the summer.

No, I understood your point (with which I have no quarrel). I was referring to prior charter operators who tried to move into scheduled ops in direct competition to AC's rapidair, and paid the price.
 
lostsound
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RE: Air Transat Announcement, New Planes?

Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:41 pm

Quoting YYZYYT (Reply 17):
No, I understood your point (with which I have no quarrel). I was referring to prior charter operators who tried to move into scheduled ops in direct competition to AC's rapidair, and paid the price.

Ah I see. No that method never works out.

Sunwing used to do YYZ-YYT in the summer which they stopped doing.
Air Canada and Westjet offered lower fares AND more product.
 
drgmobile
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RE: Air Transat Announcement, New Planes?

Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:32 pm

The news is out. Transat would like to bring in internally its 737 operations but wants to cut $20 million in costs. To do that, it is going to its employees for concessions. They already accepted a salary freeze and salaries are not to be touched this time. It's looking at other concessions, like having crews stay near the airport instead of downtown, etc...

http://www.lesaffaires.com/secteurs-...+Group&utm_medium=Kazi+Media+Group
 
YXD172
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RE: Air Transat Announcement, New Planes?

Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:47 pm

Quoting drgmobile (Reply 19):
Transat would like to bring in internally its 737 operations but wants to cut $20 million in costs.

Interesting, looks like they're trying to maintain similar operations to what they have now. I have a feeling that they'll be able to accomplish this, though I wonder what it will do to their cost structure. It's also worth noting that "Carol Lavoie, president of the pilots union, said Wednesday that from what he knows the employer’s demands aren’t “excessive.” "

Here's an english article for those interested
http://www.thestar.com/business/arti...0-million-of-costs-from-operations
Radial engines don't leak oil, they are just marking their territory!
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Air Transat Announcement, New Planes?

Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:18 pm

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 9):
TS actually operated 734's on winter leases 10+ years ago.

Yep, these two birds during the '97-'98, '98-'99 & '99-'00 winters.


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I wonder how many 737s they would in the fleet, and how many wide-bodies would they drop for that.

Quoting shuttle9juliet (Reply 11):
Should have hanged on to the 757s

Already, why did they drop them ?
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Air Transat Announcement, New Planes?

Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:32 am

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 21):
I wonder how many 737s they would like to have in the fleet

The number of 737s Transat wants to introduce “is the big question. We don’t know that one yet,” Buzzell told The Gazette.

http://www.montrealgazette.com/busin...+union+cautious/7829623/story.html
 
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yyz717
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RE: Air Transat Announcement, New Planes?

Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:29 pm

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 21):
Quoting shuttle9juliet (Reply 11):
Should have hanged on to the 757s

Already, why did they drop them ?

They were standardizing/rationalizing their fleet, and chose the 313 instead of the 752.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Air Transat Announcement, New Planes?

Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:40 pm

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 23):
They were standardizing/rationalizing their fleet, and chose the 313 instead of the 752.

Right. Some here think they should have kept the 752s, but on the matter of fleet simplification and range flexibility, it was certainly the right move then, not to forget that both aircraft types had a rather similar seat capacity.
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: Air Transat Announcement, New Planes?

Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:06 pm

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 24):
Right. Some here think they should have kept the 752s, but on the matter of fleet simplification and range flexibility, it was certainly the right move then, not to forget that both aircraft types had a rather similar seat capacity.

The A310 has slightly better range, allowing TS to operate to Continental Europe with greater ease than with the 752. Let's not forget that back then, there was no option for winglets on the 752, making it very unattractive for North America - Continental Europe flights. Anything past the UK was a no go territory back then for the 752.

It is only in the last decade that airlines like CO (UA), DL and AA started putting the 752 on continental Europe runs on a more regular basis, mostly due to the efficiency gained by the winglets. That being said, even with the winglets, the A310 still has more legs than the 752.

As you said, TS made the right choice back then. it's just ironic that they might need the 752 now, that's all.

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2013-01-17 13:12:45]
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Air Transat Announcement, New Planes?

Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:12 pm

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 25):
But the A310 has slightly better range, permitting TS to operate to Europe with greater ease than with the 752.

Exactly, this is what I meant, especially with the range flexibility (of the A310 of course compared with the 752). Now I realise by the way I wrote it it may sound the other way around.
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: Air Transat Announcement, New Planes?

Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:16 pm

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 24):
not to forget that both aircraft types had a rather similar seat capacity.

Not necessarily. the A310 competes with the B767. Similar seating and range.

TS operates 2 class A310s with 249 seats. If it were to operate a 2 class 752, you are looking at roughly 200 seats. Big capacity difference. Even in single class, the 752 is limited to 239 seats, whereas the A310 can accomodate 280 with no problems.

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2013-01-17 13:56:39]
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
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yyz717
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RE: Air Transat Announcement, New Planes?

Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:23 pm

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 25):
The A310 has slightly better range, allowing TS to operate to Continental Europe with greater ease than with the 752. Let's not forget that back then, there was no option for winglets on the 752, making it very unattractive for North America - Continental Europe flights. Anything past the UK was a no go territory back then for the 752.

The 752 has lower unit costs (CASM) than the A313, and in the low yield charter market, that counts for alot.

Also, C3 (Canada 3000) used to fly their 752 to Continental Europe. YYZ-DUS was a common route. So the 752 has the range for most 313 missions.

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 27):
the A310 competes with the B767. Similar seating and range.

TS operates 2 class A310s with 249 seats. If it were to operate a 2 class 752, you are looking at roughly 200 seats. Big capacity difference. Even in single class, the 752 is limited to 239 seats, whereas the A310 can accomodate 280 with no problems.

There is still significant overlap in the range/capacity offering of the A310 and the 752, which is why so few carriers operated both, simultaneously.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
YVRLTN
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RE: Air Transat Announcement, New Planes?

Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:46 am

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 28):
So the 752 has the range for most 313 missions.

I have seen the 313 on YVR-LGW and AMS - not regularly, but it has happened (poor pax...). A 757 couldnt do that.

Quoting drgmobile (Reply 19):
Transat would like to bring in internally its 737 operations

Wonder if they would be Canjet aircraft or they would source some from a lessor?

Quoting rampbro (Reply 14):
There's far less market to those types of places ex-Canada in the summer, dramatically so from smaller markets. If anything those planes would be better put to use flying domestically, either on sched or in the charter market.

If TS did this, they would be best to send them off to Europe for the summer, like WG. However...

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 9):
I think if they acquire NB's, it will also be on a winter-only basis.

   I think they would be most sensible to bring them in from TOM, Travel Service, HV and whoever else like WG do. I sincerely wish the Canjet ones wouldnt become "available" though   And the other isse would be where will the pilots come from!

Quoting lostsound (Reply 8):
or even use them for Hawaii

They could, but lots of competetion from AC & WS and AS and G4 down the road which is probalby why they are not there already. Unless you mean from YYZ/YUL, in which case even a NEO would not make that without a fuel stop in YVR, would even be tight for a 313 depending on winds.
Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
 
YOWVIEWER
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RE: Air Transat Announcement, New Planes?

Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:01 pm

Curious - what does Sunwing do with their 738's during the summer? Rarely see them at YOW or YUL compared to winter time. Are these wet-leased and returned to other carriers in the summer, or are they allocated elsewhere ?
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Air Transat Announcement, New Planes?

Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:14 pm

Quoting yowviewer (Reply 30):
Curious - what does Sunwing do with their 738's during the summer? Rarely see them at YOW or YUL compared to winter time. Are these wet-leased and returned to other carriers in the summer, or are they allocated elsewhere ?

Each winter they lease in several aircraft to cope with Canadian demand.


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