8herveg
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Manchester Airport (MAN) Eyes US Market

Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:30 pm

In an article by the Financial Times a few days ago, it states that the Manchester Airport Group is eyeing further expansion into the US market next year. Article here:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/21be1d6c-5a6c-11e2-a02e-00144feab49a.html

Which US airlines do you think will expand their operations at MAN?

At the moment, we have:

AA to JFK, ORD - perhaps the addition of MIA?
DL to ATL - perhaps the return of JFK and possibly to DTW or MSP?
UA to IAD, EWR - perhaps the addition of ORD and maybe even LAX and/or SFO?
US to PHL - maybe to CLT too?

Any thoughts?
 
tomkell92
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RE: Manchester Airport (MAN) Eyes US Market

Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:05 pm

Well, with me living in Manchester, I would love to see these additions at the airport. However, I can't see it happening for fears over competition with London's Airports.

BA have stopped their long haul routes and as of March 2013, they will only fly to London Heathrow as they want pax to connect onto US services from London.

Having said that, I would like to see more direct routes from MAN as it would surely rattle BA.
Tom Kellock
 
2travel2know2
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RE: Manchester Airport (MAN) Eyes US Market

Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:07 pm

Nobody's currently flying scheduled MAN-LAS or MAN-MCO/SFB?
My thoughts:
ORD and JFK may be able to support same airline more than daily service from each airport but 2 airlines on the route, no.
MIA might support some kind of AA MAN service, perhaps no need to be a year-around daily.
DTW, very iffy, must rely on DL DTW hub potential to make it work even if not flown daily and year-around.
MSP, not really.
LAX or SFO could, but surely UA could make better use of one of its wide-bodies in shorter runs than California-MAN.
CLT w/US, maybe not.
Not mentioned above in the opening post:
BOS, which probably could support year-around MAN flights; question w/BOS would be Which U.S. airline?
IAH, interesting, but it may not be OK as a daily destination, at least not until UA B787.
DEN, if there's a market for winter holidays out of that part of U.K., 1-2 weekend UA DEN-MAN winter-time may seem appropriate.
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817Dreamliiner
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RE: Manchester Airport (MAN) Eyes US Market

Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:17 pm

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 2):
Nobody's currently flying scheduled MAN-LAS or MAN-MCO/SFB?

Ummm Virgin does...
Please let me know... If you know this is the end of the world, Let me know... If you know the truth...
 
8herveg
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RE: Manchester Airport (MAN) Eyes US Market

Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:41 pm

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 3):
Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 2):
Nobody's currently flying scheduled MAN-LAS or MAN-MCO/SFB?

Ummm Virgin does...

I was referring to the US carriers only, as per the article.
 
tomkell92
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RE: Manchester Airport (MAN) Eyes US Market

Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:58 pm

Quoting 8herveg (Reply 4):

Who said it would just be US airlines offering these services? I'm sure that MAN would be happy for any airline to operate these routes, so long as it generated extra pax numbers and revenue for MAN.

All of the airlines that offer US routes are as follows:

UA to Newark and Washington IAD
DL to Atlanta (being upgraded to an A330 this summer)
AA to Chicago and New York-JFK (Chicago was operated by B763's last summer)
US to Philadelphia

Then there is:
VS to Orlando and Las Vegas (uses mixture of B744 and A330)
TCX also operate Las Vegas on a seasonal basis
PK operate Lahore to New York via MAN

plus the likes of TOM, MON and TCX flying to Orlando-Sanford.

So out of the above airlines, could we see maybe VS expanding?
DL service to New York could also return
Miami would be a nice addition and would love to see it operated by VS rather than AA
Tom Kellock
 
migair54
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RE: Manchester Airport (MAN) Eyes US Market

Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:13 pm

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 2):
BOS, which probably could support year-around MAN flights; question w/BOS would be Which U.S. airline?

In my opinion is the number one in the list, and specially because it can easily serve with a B757, so I think this makes a great advantage for BOS over LAX, IAH, MIA.

MIA with AA can get some traffic flying to the islands in the Caribbean and holiday destination and cruises but apart from that I don´t see much market, I´m not sure if that´s enough.

Quoting 8herveg (Thread starter):
In an article by the Financial Times a few days ago, it states that the Manchester Airport Group is eyeing further expansion into the US market next year. Article here:

What if they are not talking only about US Airlines??
 
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817Dreamliiner
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RE: Manchester Airport (MAN) Eyes US Market

Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:14 pm

Quoting 8herveg (Reply 4):

I was referring to the US carriers only, as per the article.

Yes but he asked: "Nobody's currently flying scheduled MAN-LAS or MAN-MCO/SFB? " And I answered accordingly...
Please let me know... If you know this is the end of the world, Let me know... If you know the truth...
 
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adamh8297
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RE: Manchester Airport (MAN) Eyes US Market

Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:47 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 6):
In my opinion is the number one in the list, and specially because it can easily serve with a B757, so I think this makes a great advantage for BOS over LAX, IAH, MIA.

Who would fly the route? I do not see a US or UK Carrier doing it.

Could QR or EY try DOH/AUH-MAN-BOS?
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AM, BA, B6, CO, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WN
 
nomorerjs
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RE: Manchester Airport (MAN) Eyes US Market

Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:16 am

NYC and Chicago are probably the two markets that can support multiple daily nonstops to MAN. AA/BA would be obvious at either airport, but UA could add 757 to ORD.
 
FSDan
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RE: Manchester Airport (MAN) Eyes US Market

Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:02 am

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 2):
BOS, which probably could support year-around MAN flights; question w/BOS would be Which U.S. airline?

BOS-MAN seems like it would be the best of the routes you listed. I would think DL would be the best airline for that route these days. They have a decent transatlantic profile from BOS to begin with (LHR, AMS, CDG in the summer), and the the VS partnership could probably be leveraged to strengthen this route. Of course, the problem would be that there is not much feed on either end, but that would be an issue no matter which airline flew the route.
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8herveg
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RE: Manchester Airport (MAN) Eyes US Market

Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:40 am

Quoting FSDan (Reply 10):
BOS-MAN seems like it would be the best of the routes you listed. I would think DL would be the best airline for that route these days. They have a decent transatlantic profile from BOS to begin with (LHR, AMS, CDG in the summer), and the the VS partnership could probably be leveraged to strengthen this route. Of course, the problem would be that there is not much feed on either end, but that would be an issue no matter which airline flew the route.

I think DL too (rather than perhaps AA). DL has more domestic connections from BOS too doesn't it?
 
GCT64
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RE: Manchester Airport (MAN) Eyes US Market

Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:59 am

BOS-MAN on DL(/VS) 757 or AA(/BA) 757 seems the most likely (or a frequency/capacity upgrade on one of the existing routes).

Quoting FSDan (Reply 10):
the problem would be that there is not much feed on either end, but that would be an issue no matter which airline flew the route.

Feed is definitely an issue. Unless the industry changes, there is never going to be much feed on the MAN end, and it is noticeable that all the current US operated MAN routes are to hubs (which is not at all surprising).

BOS-MAN would be an obvious A321NEO route and so, perhaps, one day B6 might operate it?
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skipness1E
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RE: Manchester Airport (MAN) Eyes US Market

Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:18 am

It's a tricky one as DL dropping MAN-JFK and UA moving capacity from EWR to IAD has moved capacity out of the obvious market in NYC. MAN already has a US presence from all the main players and given the conditions are challenging at best, any new route would best be hub to spoke rather than focus city.

Options over AA DL UA US

AA have tried everything and settled on tweo routes in ORD and JFK. ORD struggled against BMI but seems to have come back, JFK has remained year round which is also a good sign. However they're pulling BOS-LHR so I sould say no, DFW has been tried and MIA may not offer anything better already served over ORD and JFK

DL just dropped JFK so I doubt they'll be adding a new route anytime soon.

UA swapped one EWR for IAD however a mid term B763 / B787 ORD might be the best option of all.

US launched CLT-DUB rather than MAN last year, partly because of APD (!)

Flying A320 series aircraft across the pond is pretty niche so a mid term possibility but a remote one.
If I was a betting man, I'd say CLT with US or ORD with UA. MIA, DFW having been tried before.
 
Luftymatt
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RE: Manchester Airport (MAN) Eyes US Market

Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:04 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 13):
DL just dropped JFK so I doubt they'll be adding a new route anytime soon

I could be wrong, but I thought DL were going to resume JFK in the summer? I'm surprised this route stops in the winter, JFK on a 757 should be able to support a year round service. It used to anyway.
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2travel2know2
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RE: Manchester Airport (MAN) Eyes US Market

Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:39 pm

Quoting GCT64 (Reply 12):
BOS-MAN would be an obvious A321NEO route and so, perhaps, one day B6 might operate it?

If not B6 it could be U2 from U.K.'s side.
Perhaps an U2 ETOPS A319 could do MAN-BOS non-stop summertime.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
anstar
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RE: Manchester Airport (MAN) Eyes US Market

Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:31 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 13):
DL just dropped JFK so I doubt they'll be adding a new route anytime soon.

Perhaps they can make it work with a VS A330 once the JV is approved? 2 airlines selling the route instead of one with strong customer bases either side could work.
 
jayunited
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RE: Manchester Airport (MAN) Eyes US Market

Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:11 pm

I think the Manchester Airport Group is going to have to put some money where their mouth is to get US airlines to add more cities. Don't get me wrong MAN can support more non stops from the US but only for 4-6 months out of the years, after the peak travel season the loads drop like a rock. I could see US airlines adding seasonal service to MAN from the East Coast or the Midwest regions because a B757 can make the flight which they can fill easily during the peak season. However I don't think any US airline will add nonstop service to MAN from the Mountain or West Coast region because it would require at minimum a B767 which could be better utilized on a different route.
 
rutankrd
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RE: Manchester Airport (MAN) Eyes US Market

Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:39 pm

Quoting jayunited (Reply 17):

I think the Manchester Airport Group is going to have to put some money where their mouth is to get US airlines to add more cities. Don't get me wrong MAN can support more non stops from the US but only for 4-6 months out of the years, after the peak travel season the loads drop like a rock. I could see US airlines adding seasonal service to MAN from the East Coast or the Midwest regions because a B757 can make the flight which they can fill easily during the peak season. However I don't think any US airline will add nonstop service to MAN from the Mountain or West Coast region because it would require at minimum a B767 which could be better utilized on a different route.

You do know all four major US carriers serve Manchester daily all year round and in the case of AA twice daily from their respective East coast Hubs.
In addition to SLFs there are a sizeable amount of boxes and palllets moved each way.

That said it is true to say that beyond the Three EU hubs (LHR/FRA/CDG) the economics of any EU-West Coast direct services are weak never mind just from Manchester.

In fact the range of direct Manchester- US services is pretty good already.

As discussed the only routes i see as being restored are Boston and Miami with AA and possibly DL to JFK.

Nothing much from any UK scheduled operator (They have said as much)

Anyway this entire thread is based on some words spoken by an MAG agent after a comment that the stratergy of securing additional Far East growth (Read Chinese Carrier) had become a "slow burner"

There may not be any specific strategy to target additional North Atlantic growth in reality.
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: Manchester Airport (MAN) Eyes US Market

Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:47 pm

Welcome to US Airline consolidation.

Every large US airline already serves MAN. There is no one left to initiate new service.

So now MAN has to get an airline to expand service to another hub...and that is going to be tough in a sluggish economy with high fuel costs
 
hohd
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RE: Manchester Airport (MAN) Eyes US Market

Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:50 pm

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 8):

This could a route for EK also, to serve BOS via MAN, which by itself may not support a non stop flight. There are enough
EK fans in MAN and with competitive prices can attract sizable number of passengers on BOS-MAN sector.

BOS is one of the few major East Coast US cities not to have any Middle East carriers serving it.
 
jayunited
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RE: Manchester Airport (MAN) Eyes US Market

Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:38 pm

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 18):
You do know all four major US carriers serve Manchester daily all year round and in the case of AA twice daily from their respective East coast Hubs.
In addition to SLFs there are a sizeable amount of boxes and palllets moved each way.

NO really I had no idea?!?!?!   

My comment deals with the majors adding additional year around service from cities not already served by their metal which is what the Manchester Airport Group would like to see happen. American has year around service to MAN from ORD but from the fall to early-spring the route can only support a B757. United only uses B757's on their MAN routes but during the fall to early-spring there are a lot of empty seats on those planes and I'm not sure how the load factors look on Delta and USAirways during the same time frame. All I was saying is if the existing routes are already seeing a sharp drop in demand during the off season then it will be hard for Manchester to convince the airlines to add more year around service to MAN from cities not already served.  
 
BlueShamu330s
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RE: Manchester Airport (MAN) Eyes US Market

Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:39 pm

IMO, the most likely turn of events will see UA go double daily again on the EWR once some current stations deeper into Europe see the trickle down effect of the Deamliners replacing B767s releasing 757s from such routes. I wouldn't be surprised to see 3 UA 757s through MAN daily for summer '14.

DL are upgrading the 64/65 to an A332, so no chance of double daily for the forseable future. Anything else with them must surely hang on their involvement with Virgin, but their A333s are too much for JFK and especially BOS.

AA is interesting. I've heard what at the time I thought was quite a bizarre suggestion, that the route might be upgauged and retimed earlier to feed ORD originating passengers on to the morning EK Dubai. I must admit to disregarding it, though word this week that EK are not actively considering their own service to ORD presently might shed light on this other chatter. I also wonder whether, with their fantastic loads to JFK, they would consider going the whole hog and go double daily rather than upgauge to the B763.   

US don't have an airframe large enough to satisfy their summer demand through MAN with one rotation. Even this winter has seen their loads regularly north of 250 each way. I would be slightly optimistic of seeing a new service to CLT.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 19):
So now MAN has to get an airline to expand service to another hub...and that is going to be tough in a sluggish economy with high fuel costs

.....unless someone like NZ came along and opened a MAN - West coast USA - AKL. Long talked about and often looked into, I do wonder if the B789's economies might encourage them to make the jump finally.

Rgds
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skipness1E
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RE: Manchester Airport (MAN) Eyes US Market

Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:12 pm

BOS-LHR is being dropped by AA so don't see a return to BOS-MAN. If EK do serve BOS, it would be direct.....
 
2travel2know2
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RE: Manchester Airport (MAN) Eyes US Market

Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:29 pm

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 22):
.....unless someone like NZ came along and opened a MAN - West coast USA - AKL. Long talked about and often looked into, I do wonder if the B789's economies might encourage them to make the jump finally.

That sounds kind of interesting.
NZ flying AKL-LAX-LHR daily and CHC-LAX-MAN thrice weekly, so MAN-AKL and CHC-LHR passengers would change planes @ LAX.
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cgnnrw
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RE: Manchester Airport (MAN) Eyes US Market

Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:59 pm

What does MAN offer as far as Canada? What abount into the Carribbean? Any chances the likes of Air Jamaica or Carribbean Airways starting some sort of service?
A330 man.
 
GCT64
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RE: Manchester Airport (MAN) Eyes US Market

Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:08 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 23):
BOS-LHR is being dropped by AA

is it really being dropped or is the capacity / route being transferred to their JV partner BA? I recall there was a thread on the old/new frequencies but can't remember the conclusion.

If it is being transferred (rather than dropped), then I don't see that it affects a decision on BOS-MAN (although probably makes it less likely as it might be a bit of an orphan operationally).
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tomkell92
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RE: Manchester Airport (MAN) Eyes US Market

Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:12 pm

Quoting cgnnrw (Reply 25):

For Canada there is Air Transat who operate to Vancouver, Toronto and Calgary using a mixture of A310's and A330's.
As for the caribbean, we have Thomson and Thomas Cook operating the routes. Thomson currently use B763's, but will soon be replacing them with B787's. Thomas Cook use A330's, but their long haul services are expected to stop in the next few years as they undergo some re-branding and re-fleeting too.

It could be possible for passengers to fly to Toronto with Air Transat and then connect to LAX from their, but it sure is a long ride - especially with the waits in the airports.
Tom Kellock
 
rutankrd
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RE: Manchester Airport (MAN) Eyes US Market

Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:24 pm

Quoting tomkell92 (Reply 27):
As for the caribbean, we have Thomson and Thomas Cook operating the routes. Thomson currently use B763's, but will soon be replacing them with B787's. Thomas Cook use A330's, but their long haul services are expected to stop in the next few years as they undergo some re-branding and re-fleeting too.

Plus Virgin Atlantic to Barbados.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Manchester Airport (MAN) Eyes US Market

Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:25 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 6):
MIA with AA can get some traffic flying to the islands in the Caribbean and holiday destination and cruises but apart from that I don´t see much market, I´m not sure if that´s enough.

It's a leisure market, but the local traffic is absolutely there to fill a plane. At good yields? Eh, not so much.
a.
 
CO764
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RE: Manchester Airport (MAN) Eyes US Market

Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:29 pm

I'm pretty sure UA served MAN using 744s back until at least 2008, possibly LAX as well? I'm really surprised about that - how could they make that work? Anyone know the load factor?
http://flightdiary.net/CO764. Next Flights: CDG - PEK - HKG, HKG - CTU - CDG
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: Manchester Airport (MAN) Eyes US Market

Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:29 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 13):
DFW has been tried and MIA may not offer anything better already served over ORD and JFK

MIA-MAN was tried as well. It lived and died by cruise contracts. No cruise contracts = no viability for MIA-MAN.

Talk of flights from MAN to DFW, IAH, or DEN or out of the question.

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 8):
Could QR or EY try DOH/AUH-MAN-BOS?

They might be able to, but they never will. For QR, EK, or EY to show up in BOS, it will be nonstop routes to their hubs or nothing.
It is what it is...
 
BlueShamu330s
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RE: Manchester Airport (MAN) Eyes US Market

Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:37 pm

Mah4546, I have banged on for the past 2 years with folk in AA about MAN - MIA being exploited not only for Florida and cruise clients, but for central and South America.

Anyone travelling through MAN to C & S America have to connect somewhere, and to be honest, even with the prospect of having to clear US Immigration in MIA, if marketed properly, AA could make the market its own.

There is a significant amount of business these days between northern UK and the South American continent, yet no airline has yet seized the opportunity.

Rgds
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airbazar
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RE: Manchester Airport (MAN) Eyes US Market

Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:41 pm

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 2):
BOS, which probably could support year-around MAN flights; question w/BOS would be Which U.S. airline?

BOS-MAN has been tried by AA with a 757 and it failed. I don't think we'll see it coming back especially now that AA is even dropping BOS-LHR. I think we are seeing the last of AA TATL service from BOS.

Quoting FSDan (Reply 10):
Of course, the problem would be that there is not much feed on either end, but that would be an issue no matter which airline flew the route.

DL has some decent feed at BOS but likewise at JFK and they couldn't make JFK-MAN work either so I don't expect them to try BOS-MAN. As it is, my understanding is that they are struggling on the BOS-LHR route which is a far bigger market.
 
anstar
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RE: Manchester Airport (MAN) Eyes US Market

Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:21 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 33):

DL has some decent feed at BOS but likewise at JFK and they couldn't make JFK-MAN work either so I don't expect them to try BOS-MAN. As it is, my understanding is that they are struggling on the BOS-LHR route which is a far bigger market.

I wonder bow much will change with the VS JV... perhaps they will be able to recover ground at BOS?
 
skipness1E
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RE: Manchester Airport (MAN) Eyes US Market

Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:46 pm

Quoting CO764 (Reply 30):
I'm pretty sure UA served MAN using 744s back until at least 2008, possibly LAX as well? I'm really surprised about that - how could they make that work? Anyone know the load factor?

United have not served MAN before the CO merger, LAX has only been served direct by none other than BA, long since dropped.

Quoting GCT64 (Reply 26):

is it really being dropped or is the capacity / route being transferred to their JV partner BA? I recall there was a thread on the old/new frequencies but can't remember the conclusion.

The JV is metal neutral, however operationally, American are gone from the route.
 
David_itl
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RE: Manchester Airport (MAN) Eyes US Market

Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:14 pm

Quoting GCT64 (Reply 12):
Feed is definitely an issue. Unless the industry changes, there is never going to be much feed on the MAN end

Bit of co-ordinating round BE's domestic hubbing wouldn't come amiss.

In terms of current routes, this is what the CAA's provisional statistics for December have thrown up


PHL 12851 -05.14%
ATL 09592 +03.30%
JFK 09564 +11.11%
EWR 09286 -05.51%
ORD 08556 +34.89%
IAD 05529 n/a

the 3 leisue-orientated routes
MCO 24078 -03.66%
LAS 03810 +01.44%
SFB 02432 +93.48%

Not checked for frequency of service but on the face of it, AA seems to be doing okay in getting more seats filled. Nor have I calculated the annual figures (they will be slightly out compared with what the CAA produces).
 
rutankrd
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RE: Manchester Airport (MAN) Eyes US Market

Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:14 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 35):
LAX has only been served direct by none other than BA, long since dropped.

And further back Laker Airways along with Miami !

[Edited 2013-01-15 14:22:05]

[Edited 2013-01-15 14:22:48]
 
jumpjets
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RE: Manchester Airport (MAN) Eyes US Market

Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:25 pm

Quoting GCT64 (Reply 26):
is it really being dropped or is the capacity / route being transferred to their JV partner BA?

BA has picked up a third rotation to BOS - not sure which aircraft they use but as their smallest TATL widebody is a 767 overall capacity from the AA/BA JV to BOS will be at least the same as before AA pulled off the route.

Meanwhile AA are introducing a second rotation from MIA whilst BA drop their third rotation.

Looks a bit like as if AA are retrenching back to their main hub on TATL services leaving less key cities to BA.
 
skipness1E
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RE: Manchester Airport (MAN) Eyes US Market

Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:14 pm

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 37):
And further back Laker Airways along with Miami !

God yeah! I think they even did PIK briefly as well from MIA and LAX. Happy days!