LAXintl
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Southwest To Take Over LAX T-1; US Air Moves

Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:38 pm

Per January 14 LAWA board meeting, Southwest Airlines and LAWA have reached an agreement whereby Southwest will invest approximately $400.2mil on a wide ranging renovation of the near 30-year old terminal-1 facility at LAX.

Planned renovations include:
o Revised passenger security screening checkpoint
o Design and implemention of new inline baggage sorting system
o Upgrading holdrooms and associated building infrastructure
o Refurbishing the arrival/baggage claim area
o Replace passenger boarding bridges
o Renovate airline support office space
o Replacement of ramp paving sections and associated fuel hydrant pit locations.
o Proprietary improvements include branded improvements unique to Southwest's operational needs

To facilitate the renovations SWA will cover $14.7mil in expenses to relocate US Airways from T-1 to T-3.

Once complete by July 2014 Southwest and AirTran Airways will become sole tenants of T-1.


I guess we will finally see SWA beef up LAX beyond its static 110-120 departures it has been stuck at the last 10-years having only 11 gates. This will bring into play another 4 gates for the airline.


News story:
http://www.dailybreeze.com/news/ci_2...st-lax-plan-400-million-renovation

=
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commavia
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RE: Southwest To Take Over LAX T-1; US Air Moves

Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:47 pm

Interesting. I like how the LAWA representative quoted felt the need to "manage expectations" on just how nice this $400M could make T1. Nonetheless, improvements are obviously needed - with the checkpoint first and foremost. I have on multiple occasions driven by T1 and seen the line to check-in and/or go through security literally stretch out the door and down the sidewalk. That's ridiculous. Also interesting to see what US will get at T3 - same four gates? Exclusive or preferential use? Space for a USAirways club?
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Southwest To Take Over LAX T-1; US Air Moves

Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:00 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 1):
Nonetheless, improvements are obviously needed - with the checkpoint first and foremost. I have on multiple occasions driven by T1 and seen the line to check-in and/or go through security literally stretch out the door and down the sidewalk.

Agreed. What's the difference in T-1 as opposed to the others? Is it just a lack of space at the top of the steps? I've never been able to put my finger on it.

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Planned renovations include:

I am disappointed that they are not doing anything about the too narrow ticketing lobby, but I imagine that would be very costly. Removing the CTX machines should help some, though.

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
I guess we will finally see SWA beef up LAX beyond its static 110-120 departures it has been stuck at the last 10-years having only 11 gates. This will bring into play another 4 gates for the airline.

Maybe only a net gain of 3 if they close 4A. It's not going to be real useful once the 735s are gone.

[Edited 2013-01-15 08:07:19]
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boeing773er
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RE: Southwest To Take Over LAX T-1; US Air Moves

Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:01 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 1):

One thing I find interesting is that US operates a club out of LAX; with only four gates how many flights do they have there per day? Is it because LAX is such a valuable market, and they are trying very hard to please their dividend miles customers there?

Well anyways this news seems good for FL/WN. They can really make themselves a large market out of LAX for themselves. I think this is one of those things that shows WN isn't the carrier it was ten years ago, I highly doubt anyone would think WN would have their own terminal in LAX
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diverdave
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RE: Southwest To Take Over LAX T-1; US Air Moves

Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:08 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Per January 14 LAWA board meeting, Southwest Airlines and LAWA have reached an agreement whereby Southwest will invest approximately $400.2mil on a wide ranging renovation of the near 30-year old terminal-1 facility at LAX.

Great news for LAX and Southwest!   $400 million should really bring great improvements to T-1.

Not so good news for those who must compete with Southwest at LAX.    They can beef up substantially with 4 more gates.
 
apodino
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RE: Southwest To Take Over LAX T-1; US Air Moves

Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:08 pm

No surprise here at all...this was coming for a while...the only question was going to be where was US going to move? T3 really surprises me on this one though, I would have expected T2 or T6 for a US move. Of course if the AA merger happens, then T3 likely won't happen and it will be a straight to T4 for US.
 
iowaman
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RE: Southwest To Take Over LAX T-1; US Air Moves

Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:57 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
I guess we will finally see SWA beef up LAX beyond its static 110-120 departures it has been stuck at the last 10-years having only 11 gates. This will bring into play another 4 gates for the airline.

Great news to see WN get additional gates. I have no doubt they will put the three or four additional gates to use right away. It looks like WN will only be on the hook for about $16 million of the $400 million (assuming the city council approves this).

Where do you guys think we will see new flights to? 3 or 4 additional gates should be another 30 daily flights or so all said and done. They have most of the short-haul well covered out of LAX. SEA and PDX are big holes, but I doubt WN will ever be interested in those. I have no doubt DAL will come online once Wright goes away. MCO is the largest WN station unserved from LAX, but that ties up a lot of aircraft time (SAN is also one of the largest but I don't see WN entering LAX-SAN). Would WN consider LAX-OKC/TUL? Not sure if those really need another carrier. Possibly LAX-OMA/MSP/IND (I'm going to guess unlikely)? HNL is a given when/if it comes online as station. Are all the route authorities used up on LAX-SJD/MEX/CUN? Those seem like reasonable candidates if not.

Current LAX WN routes:

OAK
SFO
SJC
SMF
RNO
LAS
PHX
TUS
ABQ
SLC
DEN
SAT
AUS
HOU
MCI
STL
MDW
MKE
BNA
BWI
ATL
MSY
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Southwest To Take Over LAX T-1; US Air Moves

Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:08 pm

Quoting iowaman (Reply 6):
Are all the route authorities used up on LAX-SJD/MEX/CUN? Those seem like reasonable candidates if not.

FIS is going to be a problem on those. It'll be interesting to see how international flying at places like PHX, LAS and LAX, where the FIS gates are separate from WN gates, shakes out. At least at PHX, they are in the same terminal.
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FWAERJ
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RE: Southwest To Take Over LAX T-1; US Air Moves

Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:12 pm

Quoting iowaman (Reply 6):
Possibly LAX-OMA/MSP/IND (I'm going to guess unlikely)?

WN flew LAX-IND as recently as a few years ago, but dropped it in the NW IND focus city days and when FL jumped on the route with redeyes.

FL left, and DL is down to less-than-daily service on the route (very poor service for an airport like IND). I could see WN restarting LAX-IND with these "new" gates.
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AeroWesty
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RE: Southwest To Take Over LAX T-1; US Air Moves

Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:25 pm

Quoting boeing773ER (Reply 3):
One thing I find interesting is that US operates a club out of LAX; with only four gates how many flights do they have there per day? Is it because LAX is such a valuable market, and they are trying very hard to please their dividend miles customers there?

In its heyday at T-1 in the early 90s, US operated nonstop to:

BWI 3x/day
CLT 3x
DAY 1x
IND 3x
MCI 3x
PHL 2x
PIT 5x
TPA 1x
SFO hourly

(Note: occasional weekend exceptions, and some flights were operated with 762s.)

Plus they still had plenty of other intra-California routes and Vegas from the PSA acquisition. It was a substantial operation which necessitated a lounge. I'm surprised it's lasted this long, though.
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ouboy79
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RE: Southwest To Take Over LAX T-1; US Air Moves

Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:35 pm

Quoting iowaman (Reply 6):
Would WN consider LAX-OKC/TUL? Not sure if those really need another carrier.

I'm not sure WN going into OKC-LAX would be a good idea...for OKC. Though it would help boost the OKC market, but I don't see the company going for it over routing people through PHX, LAS, and DEN.
 
LAXintl
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RE: Southwest To Take Over LAX T-1; US Air Moves

Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:50 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 1):
Also interesting to see what US will get at T3 - same four gates? Exclusive or preferential use? Space for a USAirways club?

US Airways T-3 leases are not final yet, however I understand it will be use of 3 gates. No word on the lounge yet, but considering VX took over the former TW/AS facility, it might be very costly to build something from scratch now.

Quoting commavia (Reply 1):
I like how the LAWA representative quoted felt the need to "manage expectations" on just how nice this $400M could make T1.

Yes $400mil does not buy much these days.

For example tha baggage system alone has a $60mil price tag

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 2):
Agreed. What's the difference in T-1 as opposed to the others? Is it just a lack of space at the top of the steps? I've never been able to put my finger on it.

Volume volume volume. With the high frequency of service, T-1 handles and incredible count of hourly passenger.

Quoting boeing773ER (Reply 3):
One thing I find interesting is that US operates a club out of LAX; with only four gates how many flights do they have there per day?

They have shrunk down to mere 14 flights currently, they a tiny image of historic past.

Quoting iowaman (Reply 6):
It looks like WN will only be on the hook for about $16 million of the $400 million (assuming the city council approves this).

Well its actually a bit more complex.

SWA fronts the money.

Then LA City buys back the non proprietary general facility refurbishments at max value of $222.4mil.
LAWA option to buy back, or provide rent credit of $146.9mil for the proprietery parts of the refurbishment
TSA throws in $29.6mil

But - SWA rent goes up $9.5mil the first year with up to 4% escalation in subsequent years over the 10-year term.

Also SWA agrees to drop litigation pending since 2007 over airport fee tariff.


But at the end of the day, its a great deal for SWA as they gain some much breathing room, and ability to expand LAX flying.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
QANTAS747-438
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RE: Southwest To Take Over LAX T-1; US Air Moves

Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:50 pm

Quoting iowaman (Reply 6):

I think you pretty much got it right. I say that WN at LAX definitely needs a Florida nonstop, either MCO or FLL. Especially since it can take 13 hours to fly LAX-SJU including connections when that starts up in April. WN also needs a EWR nonstop. SEA/PDX is another hole in the network, but I think there's some unspoken agreement with AS that WN doesn't fly these routes (who knows).

WN at LAX can also do several redeyes to MCO, EWR, MDW, and BWI. Not to mention LAX being the springboard to Hawaii flights.

Quoting iowaman (Reply 6):
Are all the route authorities used up on LAX-SJD/MEX/CUN?

I believe they are, yes.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 7):
FIS is going to be a problem on those.

Actually, T1 is in a DREAM spot for FIS. T1 has gates 1 and 2 that are stand alone gates which are their own rooms. Convert one or both of those gates to Immigration! Each room is plenty big enough for 200 people and each gate could only be used one at a time, so it wouldn't get crowded. T1 is in a perfect situation for this.

Quoting diverdave (Reply 4):
Great news for LAX and Southwest! $400 million should really bring great improvements to T-1.

Heck, a coat of paint would be an incredible improvement. I'll even donate the can.

Quoting commavia (Reply 1):
I like how the LAWA representative quoted felt the need to "manage expectations" on just how nice this $400M could make T1

Yeah, seriously. $400M?! That'll turn T1 into a palace. Once they paint, carpet, and light the terminal, it'll already look like a whole new place. It'll also need new jetways..... badly. Each one may be $1M or so. Considering nothing has been done to T1 since 1984, I think LAX is getting off easy with "only" $400M.
My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
 
LAXintl
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RE: Southwest To Take Over LAX T-1; US Air Moves

Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:38 pm

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 12):
Considering nothing has been done to T1 since 1984,

In fairness T-1 has had atleast 3-4 rounds of smaller renovations over the years.

The lobby has changed (got deeper).
Security check point got enlarged
Elevators and escalators changes out
Stores and restaurants got moved and enlarged
New floor tiles up by gate areas
New bathrooms
Updated baggage system
Refurbished back and ramp offices

Also US Airways funded almost $25mil of work after the America West merger, including a lounge redo.
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diverdave
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RE: Southwest To Take Over LAX T-1; US Air Moves

Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:44 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
They have shrunk down to mere 14 flights currently, they a tiny image of historic past.

Is PSA part of that historic past, or are you referring to America West (or both)?

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 12):
Heck, a coat of paint would be an incredible improvement. I'll even donate the can.

 
 
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dabpit
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RE: Southwest To Take Over LAX T-1; US Air Moves

Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:05 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 9):
In its heyday at T-1 in the early 90s, US operated nonstop to:

BWI 3x/day
CLT 3x
DAY 1x
IND 3x
MCI 3x
PHL 2x
PIT 5x
TPA 1x
SFO hourly

It is amazing how US went from having 5x a day to PIT when they no longer fly PIT to LAX and UA now flies that route with 3 flights a WEEK!!!
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deltal1011man
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RE: Southwest To Take Over LAX T-1; US Air Moves

Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:24 pm

Quoting apodino (Reply 5):
T6 for a US move

I don't think they would fit. With UA/DL/AS over there its pretty full on space.

Quoting iowaman (Reply 6):
Are all the route authorities used up on LAX-SJD/MEX/CUN? Those seem like reasonable candidates if not.

Yes.

AS/UA have MEX
DL and.....VX? has CUN
AA and....UA have SJD
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ikramerica
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RE: Southwest To Take Over LAX T-1; US Air Moves

Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:38 pm

Quoting apodino (Reply 5):
No surprise here at all...this was coming for a while...the only question was going to be where was US going to move? T3 really surprises me on this one though, I would have expected T2 or T6 for a US move. Of course if the AA merger happens, then T3 likely won't happen and it will be a straight to T4 for US.

When AA bought TWA, they kept flights at T-3 for a while. They were O&D flights like MCO-LAX, but did have a shuttle bus that would take you to T-4 on the sterile side.

But I do believe this could signal that the AA-US tie-up is much further along than both parties are letting on and US sees no real threat of ever having to occupy T-3.

$15mil seems like a pittance to move, but if they don't plan on moving but dissolving, it's free money.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
US Airways T-3 leases are not final yet, however I understand it will be use of 3 gates. No word on the lounge yet, but considering VX took over the former TW/AS facility, it might be very costly to build something from scratch now.

If US does stay independent, it would be cheaper to make a deal with VX for lounge access. US and VX don't really compete anyway.
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n515cr
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RE: Southwest To Take Over LAX T-1; US Air Moves

Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:41 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
o Revised passenger security screening checkpoint

LONG overdue. The TSA checkpoint in T-1 is a major bottleneck.
 
LAXintl
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RE: Southwest To Take Over LAX T-1; US Air Moves

Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:47 pm

Quoting diverdave (Reply 14):
Is PSA part of that historic past, or are you referring to America West (or both)?

More the recent past. US East is much smaller at LAX than before.

Even America West is virtually gone from LAX. No more LAS, and PHX is mere 5-6x daily.
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yellowtail
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RE: Southwest To Take Over LAX T-1; US Air Moves

Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:53 pm

So no FIS facilities for T-1? He I was thinking the WN wound be able to start some nice little international routes from LAX.

Places like GUA, SAL would do well.
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aklrno
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RE: Southwest To Take Over LAX T-1; US Air Moves

Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:54 pm

Quoting boeing773ER (Reply 3):
One thing I find interesting is that US operates a club out of LAX; with only four gates how many flights do they have there per day? Is it because LAX is such a valuable market, and they are trying very hard to please their dividend miles customers there?

That lounge is also available to any WN passengers who have the right color AMEX card. I spent several hours there last Saturday waiting for a WN flight connecting from NZ in Terminal 2. I'll really miss that lounge.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 7):
FIS is going to be a problem on those. It'll be interesting to see how international flying at places like PHX, LAS and LAX, where the FIS gates are separate from WN gates, shakes out. At least at PHX, they are in the same terminal.

Since T-2 (with full FIS) is right next door, could they connect T-1 and T-2 airside and then land incoming non-domestic flights at T-2, off load pax and then tow the plane (a 30 second trip) back to T-1 for boarding?
 
roseflyer
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RE: Southwest To Take Over LAX T-1; US Air Moves

Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:04 pm

WN at LAX is a case study in gate utilization. They have incredible utilization of those gates. Any time you see the terminal, there are no more than 1 or 2 empty gates, which is amazing with WN’s short turn times. I am sure the extra gates will be used.

I am also guessing that US will appreciate going into the much quieter T3. Now that AS is gone, it is really quite with just VX as the primary tenant (along with JetBlue, Spirit and Virgin Australia). T1 has more gates than any other terminal and getting in and out of the terminal is a mess. It’s even better that they get to move and have WN pay for it. I am somewhat surprised that US never moved to T2 once Northwest/Delta moved out. With AS in T6, I guess T3 is the best spot.
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Cubsrule
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RE: Southwest To Take Over LAX T-1; US Air Moves

Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:14 pm

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 22):
I am sure the extra gates will be used.

I think so, but I don't know that the flight count will go up as much as some seem to assume. LAX has extremely high utilization, and adding 20 flights or so would put LAX pretty much in line with other similarly-sized stations as far as utilization is concerned.
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brilondon
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RE: Southwest To Take Over LAX T-1; US Air Moves

Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:24 pm

Quoting apodino (Reply 5):
No surprise here at all...this was coming for a while...the only question was going to be where was US going to move? T3 really surprises me on this one though, I would have expected T2 or T6 for a US move. Of course if the AA merger happens, then T3 likely won't happen and it will be a straight to T4 for US.

I don't think that there is room at T4 with AA there. I was through there after Christmas and every gate was in use and the terminal was packed with "masses of the great unwashed."
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aaway
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RE: Southwest To Take Over LAX T-1; US Air Moves

Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:31 pm

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 22):
I am also guessing that US will appreciate going into the much quieter T3. Now that AS is gone, it is really quite with just VX as the primary tenant (along with JetBlue, Spirit and Virgin Australia). T1 has more gates than any other terminal and getting in and out of the terminal is a mess. It’s even better that they get to move and have WN pay for it. I am somewhat surprised that US never moved to T2 once Northwest/Delta moved out. With AS in T6, I guess T3 is the best spot.

That "quiet" will likely be short lived. In it's agreement with LAWA, AS has a clause that allows it to request relocation of both Allegiant and Frontier. AS invoked that clause last summer, hence a nearly immediate relocation of G4 flight ops to T-5. AFAIK, a move by F9 is still pending - likely concomitant with the completion of the T-3 east lobby refurbishment.
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roseflyer
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RE: Southwest To Take Over LAX T-1; US Air Moves

Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:56 pm

Quoting aaway (Reply 25):

That "quiet" will likely be short lived. In it's agreement with LAWA, AS has a clause that allows it to request relocation of both Allegiant and Frontier. AS invoked that clause last summer, hence a nearly immediate relocation of G4 flight ops to T-5. AFAIK, a move by F9 is still pending - likely concomitant with the completion of the T-3 east lobby refurbishment.

Frontier has about 5 flights, so that is one gate. US using 4 gates for their 15 or so additional flights will still be far less than what AS had in T3. It might not be as dead quiet as it is now, but it still won't be as busy as it was with AS.
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aaway
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RE: Southwest To Take Over LAX T-1; US Air Moves

Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:09 am

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 26):
Frontier has about 5 flights, so that is one gate. US using 4 gates for their 15 or so additional flights will still be far less than what AS had in T3. It might not be as dead quiet as it is now, but it still won't be as busy as it was with AS.

Touche'. At its height, the AS / VX combined represented.... +/- 140 movements(?) Nevertheless, the current day doldrums that afflict T-3 will ebb away somewhat with the relocations of F9, (G4) and US. And, assuming status quo (oxymoronic), VX has tabbed some growth going forward.
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FWAERJ
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RE: Southwest To Take Over LAX T-1; US Air Moves

Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:48 am

Quoting brilondon (Reply 24):
I don't think that there is room at T4 with AA there. I was through there after Christmas and every gate was in use and the terminal was packed with "masses of the great unwashed."

AA does plan on moving some international flights to the new TBIT, which will be linked with T4. Perhaps that will free up some space.
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SFOHORIZON
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RE: Southwest To Take Over LAX T-1; US Air Moves

Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:05 am

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 28):
AA does plan on moving some international flights to the new TBIT, which will be linked with T4. Perhaps that will free up some space.

Has this been confirmed? I have never been able to verify whether this is happening or not. Can anyone point me to some documentation?
 
laca773
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RE: Southwest To Take Over LAX T-1; US Air Moves

Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:28 am

Quoting apodino (Reply 5):
No surprise here at all...this was coming for a while...the only question was going to be where was US going to move? T3 really surprises me on this one though, I would have expected T2 or T6 for a US move. Of course if the AA merger happens, then T3 likely won't happen and it will be a straight to T4 for US.

I don't think so. As it is, I believe AA is at capacity or very close to it. They may have to do the same they did when they had the two failed merger with T3 occupants, TW and QQ. Operate certain flights from there until they can figure out what to do, or axe certain markets all together.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 7):
FIS is going to be a problem on those. It'll be interesting to see how international flying at places like PHX, LAS and LAX, where the FIS gates are separate from WN gates, shakes out. At least at PHX, they are in the same terminal.

What is all this talk about having a FIS in T1? This sounds nuts. Unless things drastically change, I don't see that happening.Where would they get the staffing? Look how long AS had to use TBIT for their Mexico arrivals.... UA having to use TBIT as well when they didn't have the staff for FIS in T7. I just don't see the justification of adding FIS facilities in T1. If WN is to add Mexico services from LAX, they will need to wait until Mexico and the US become open skies. Furthermore, isn't Volaris working closely with WN/FL?

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 16):
I don't think they would fit. With UA/DL/AS over there its pretty full on space.

I don't think people realize how crowded T6 is now that AS has all their operations there, UA has several gates and DL use T6 for overflow on a daily basis.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 16):

AS/UA have MEX
DL and.....VX? has CUN
AA and....UA have SJD

I believe the two carrier rule doesn't apply in the CUN, SJD markets. If it did, UA wouldn't have been given authority to fly it as AS, and AA have flying it for a very long time. Since MX shut down, there hasn't been service in either of these markets by a Mexican flag carrier.
The markets that have the two US carrier rule are MEX & GDL.
MEX--> AS & UA
GDL--> AS & DL, but UA also started a daily service, so perhaps GDL is no longer apart of the restriction.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 28):
AA does plan on moving some international flights to the new TBIT, which will be linked with T4. Perhaps that will free up some space.

The number of flights AA will operate internationally out of TBIT really isn't that substantial. 2x SJD, NRT,PEK, & LHR.
 
laxlocal
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RE: Southwest To Take Over LAX T-1; US Air Moves

Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:30 am

Any idea as to the date that US makes their official move to T3 ?
I don't believe the article states this.


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phlwok
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RE: Southwest To Take Over LAX T-1; US Air Moves

Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:49 am

I'll be glad if I never have to deal with T1 again. Just not having to deal with security there will be a plus. The restrooms are pretty dire as well.

For the number of flights, and considering that since it's in T1 no other Star passengers can get to it, the US Club in T1 is pretty well used. It's also pretty decent with some really good employees so I hope they do indeed build one in T3. I use that club every time I go through there except for the second bank of red eyes that depart around midnight in the summer, after closing time.

US's peak gate utilization should really be measured by what they operate in the summer when East-California traffic peaks, not now.
 
dlramp4life
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RE: Southwest To Take Over LAX T-1; US Air Moves

Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:52 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 7):
At least at PHX, they are in the same terminal.

But on opposite ends. WN operates on the south side of the airport while the FIS area is on the north side. Depending on what time their "international" flights come in it could either be a easy tow or a complete pain in the rear to tow a plane from T4 north to T4 south.

Quoting n515cr (Reply 18):
Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
o Revised passenger security screening checkpoint

LONG overdue. The TSA checkpoint in T-1 is a major bottleneck.

Indeed, waiting on the curb to go through security... There is something wrong with that.

Quoting aaway (Reply 25):
AS has a clause that allows it to request relocation of both Allegiant and Frontier.

Really? Are F9 and G4 still on T6, if so what gates do they use because last time I flew through LAX it was AS central with a DL 763 at the end and a Copa 737 in the middle...
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apodino
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RE: Southwest To Take Over LAX T-1; US Air Moves

Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:04 am

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 33):
But on opposite ends. WN operates on the south side of the airport while the FIS area is on the north side. Depending on what time their "international" flights come in it could either be a easy tow or a complete pain in the rear to tow a plane from T4 north to T4 south.

I thought Southwest actually operated a couple of gates on the High B pier (International) already, even before International...but I could be wrong. That being said...it is the same terminal and the North and South sides are linked post security on the far east end IIRC.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Southwest To Take Over LAX T-1; US Air Moves

Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:35 pm

Quoting apodino (Reply 34):
I thought Southwest actually operated a couple of gates on the High B pier (International) already, even before International...but I could be wrong.

They do not, but I think the most likely scenario is a couple of WN gates in that pier to avoid towing because, as you point out:

Quoting apodino (Reply 34):
That being said...it is the same terminal and the North and South sides are linked post security on the far east end IIRC.
Quoting laca773 (Reply 30):
If WN is to add Mexico services from LAX, they will need to wait until Mexico and the US become open skies.

I agree with you about FIS in Terminal 1, but why couldn't they tow.

You are confusing open skies - which ought to happen - with open borders, which will not happen in our lifetime.
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barney captain
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RE: Southwest To Take Over LAX T-1; US Air Moves

Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:14 pm

Quoting apodino (Reply 34):
I thought Southwest actually operated a couple of gates on the High B pier (International) already, even before International...but I could be wrong.

You are correct. It's been several years, but I definitely remember pulling in to the Southeast gate on the B concourse (B-17?) in the past.
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ScottB
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RE: Southwest To Take Over LAX T-1; US Air Moves

Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:17 pm

Quoting apodino (Reply 34):
I thought Southwest actually operated a couple of gates on the High B pier (International) already, even before International...but I could be wrong.

You are correct; WN used a few of the high-B gates at PHX before the S2 (D-gates) concourse in Terminal 4 opened in 2005: http://web.archive.org/web/200503150.../www.southwest.com/cities/phx.html I don't see them needing to tow with everything being connected on the sterile side.

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
I guess we will finally see SWA beef up LAX beyond its static 110-120 departures it has been stuck at the last 10-years having only 11 gates. This will bring into play another 4 gates for the airline.

True, LAX has been a zero-sum situation for WN for the past decade or so, and both HP & US were quite content to help keep WN bottled up in Terminal 1. I wonder if WN would end up taking part of Terminal 0 if/when it is ever built.

Quoting aklrno (Reply 21):
Since T-2 (with full FIS) is right next door, could they connect T-1 and T-2 airside and then land incoming non-domestic flights at T-2, off load pax and then tow the plane (a 30 second trip) back to T-1 for boarding?

If the two are connected airside, there's no need to tow the aircraft back -- international arrivals would have to clear Immigration & Customs at T-2 and exit into the non-sterile area. Connecting the terminals airside might offer the benefit of increased utilization of T-2 at slower periods.
 
crAAzy
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RE: Southwest To Take Over LAX T-1; US Air Moves

Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:34 am

As mentioned above AA did operate flights out of T3 after the TWA take over so it wouldn't be unheard of for it to happen again.
I also agree that it's been mentioned before that AA is just about packed to the gills in T4.

Some food for thought:

If AA/US do merge it's not out of the realm of possibility for another connector to be build between T3 and the new TBIT. If/when the new TBIT passes above the threshold for AA to utilize additional gates (maybe in our lifetime) it could mean AA passengers ultimately would pass freely (inside security) between T3/TBIT/T4.

In the event of an AA/US merger, can 3 T4 gates ultimately be divided into 5,6, or 7 Eagle gates?
 
Wingtips56
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RE: Southwest To Take Over LAX T-1; US Air Moves

Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:10 am

IIRC, AA also had moved the former AirCal flights from T1 to T3 as well, and connections were a pain, as it continued to be with TW, QQ and AS codeshare flights.

T1 was so nice when it opened, for AirCal and PSA. NIce "garden" spaces, all new and fresh, though I never liked the ticket counters in the "dugout". It was really handy when they opened the cutoff, like a high-speed taxi way exit to leave the airport after T1 and not have to go all the way around, when LAX was still a single level for both arrivals and departures. (T2 was the Bubble next door. Remember?)

But last time I went through (several years now) with the WN and US (with the few surviving post-PSA routes), the volume was just terrible, with some of the open space converted to crowd control areas and cramped food/bar places. Gate 1 was, as it originally was, a very tight tow in/out space that incurred delays in the alley, and only the 731/732 could get in there....later the 735). Hopefully the revamp will improve that.
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines
 
aaway
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RE: Southwest To Take Over LAX T-1; US Air Moves

Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:45 am

Quoting crAAzy (Reply 38):
If AA/US do merge it's not out of the realm of possibility for another connector to be build between T3 and the new TBIT. If/when the new TBIT passes above the threshold for AA to utilize additional gates (maybe in our lifetime) it could mean AA passengers ultimately would pass freely (inside security) between T3/TBIT/T4.

In the event of an AA/US merger, can 3 T4 gates ultimately be divided into 5,6, or 7 Eagle gates?

The original plan was to build a T-3 / TBIT connector somewhat concurrent with that of a T-4 / TBIT connector. However, as of now, the T-3 connector has been put off pending decisions for redevelopment of the North (runway) complex. The outcome of that proposal will have some bearing on the future shape of T-3. But, even if LAWA is hindered, or prevented, in implementing its preferred plan for the runways, a separate redevelopment plan for T-3 would be tabled.

With regard to potential Eagle gates at T-4: AA's position is that Eagle is at competitive disadvantage - from a facilities level-of-service and access perspective - vs that of UAX. The physical limitations of T-4 would not allow AA to achieve parity - relocating all Eagle flights to T-4. But gating those Eagle services with a first class cabin would be a marked improvement.

There are old maps floating around with an old proposal for an Eagle gatehold currently in that area currently occupied by gates 48A/B and 49A. Wouldn't surprise me to see that plan resurrected in a modified form (well) post-merger - assuming the obvious.
"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one." - Elbert Hubbard
 
wn676
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RE: Southwest To Take Over LAX T-1; US Air Moves

Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:12 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 35):
They do not, but I think the most likely scenario is a couple of WN gates in that pier to avoid towing
The FIS gates, with the exception of B22, are all common-use, so I think they would just use one of those. WN would definitely have to term and tow during the peak periods of the day.
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