LAXintl
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Rumor: DL Skymiles To Add Revenue Requirement

Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:31 pm

If true, I applaud Delta. I have long been a proponent of revenue based earning scheme for loyalty programs.


Apparently there is a Delta memo floating around that highlights changes to the Skymiles program for 2014.

The program change to be rolled out by March 1st, would include the addition of a revenue component to achieving Medallion levels.

To be known as MQDs (Medallion Qualification Dollars), will be earned on spending on Delta and a few partner airlines.

Earning Medallion levels would require the traveller meet both the new MQD thresholds which reportedly maybe $2,500 for Silver, up to $12,500 for Platinum and achieving either the current existing miles or segment qualification thresholds.
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ouboy79
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RE: Rumor: DL Skymiles To Add Revenue Requirement

Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:37 pm

Makes sense. Why give status to someone who is only doing mileage runs and paying deeply discounted fares? This should help improve margins for DL going forward. Much like when WN changed to a revenue-based model for Rapid Rewards, it was done to improve margins and reward those that spend the most with the airline.
 
nwcoflyer
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RE: Rumor: DL Skymiles To Add Revenue Requirement

Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:43 pm

I agree. Many years ago before I worked at US- I had status with NW- most of it off cheap tickets. The upgrades were nice and the benefits were great- but in all honesty I did not give NW a good return on what they offered me.

I have long thought from a business sense, passengers should be rewarded based on dollars spent not miles flown. Many US pax who fly weekly from BUF to DCA may spend more in a year than someone flying LAX-PHL because of the way the markets are priced. The guy flying BUF to DCA will take forever to pick up silver while the guy doing LAX-PHL will pick up a lot faster, many times on lower yielding tickets.

Good luck to DL. Im sure many FF's will scream, but put your money where your mouth is. Many people who already are on the higher echelons of the elite programs probably wont be affected by this. I think it is the lower tiers that will get ticked off.

[Edited 2013-01-16 13:44:48]
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AeroWesty
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RE: Rumor: DL Skymiles To Add Revenue Requirement

Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:46 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
The program change to be rolled out by March 1st, would include the addition of a revenue component to achieving Medallion levels.

According to what was posted, then pulled, from Delta's website, the revenue component would go into effect beginning 1/1/2014. Fare-based MQM postings would go into effect 3/1/2014. The revenue component may also be made with a $25K spend on an appropriate AMEX card.

More details about what had been posted is here: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta...ta-com-updates-details-inside.html
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panamair
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RE: Rumor: DL Skymiles To Add Revenue Requirement

Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:57 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
new MQD thresholds which reportedly maybe $2,500 for Silver, up to $12,500 for Platinum

I believe the thresholds are something like:

$2500 for Silver (currently 25,000 MQMs)
$5000 for Gold (currently 50,000 MQMs)
$7500 for Platinum (currently 75,000 MQMs)
$12500 for Diamond (currently 125,000 MQMs)

which basically amounts to $0.10 per MQM.
 
Alitalia744
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RE: Rumor: DL Skymiles To Add Revenue Requirement

Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:10 pm

Should be able to change title from rumor to fact in a day or so.....
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
deltaffindfw
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RE: Rumor: DL Skymiles To Add Revenue Requirement

Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:15 pm

I don't see this as a huge issue. If you assume around $350/ticket (which for me is low), it's only 22 tickets/year for platinum or 35 for diamond. Most of those people will fly more than that, and probably pay more per ticket.
 
TeamintheSky
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RE: Rumor: DL Skymiles To Add Revenue Requirement

Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:36 pm

Hi All,

This type of change seems to have been swirling around for 2 years now in one form or another, so I am not particularly surprised. However, I am one of the people that it would presumably be the worst news to. I earn about 60k flying each year, but 80% of that is on leisure travel on cheaper fares. If I do spend 5K, it is just barely.

There are a couple of things I will be interested to see once everything is flushed out:

a) I actually live in the UK, and it seems non-US based flyers will not have to meet the MQD requirements. (for 2014 at least). So, will there be any changes that I face?

b) How does this work in conjunction with partners? Half of my travel a year is with AF/KL or other ST members. Will they credit MQD's for what I pay (if I were in the US)?

It will be interesting. I better enjoy my Gold Medallion now or at least find a job that will fly me more often if I hope to keep it.

Regards,

Team
Since 2010: DL, KL, AF, WX, IG, FR , FL, U2, AK, BA, OK, UX, VS, VN, K6, AT, US, AY, BE, EI, LG, AZ, 9W, SG, AA, JL, W6
 
MAH4546
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RE: Rumor: DL Skymiles To Add Revenue Requirement

Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:36 pm

This isn't going to last if AA and UA don't follow suit. And with UA's merger issues and AA's BK, I doubt either will follow suit in the short term.

On one hand, sure, if AA and UA follow suit, what does it matter, because its not like customers have any choice.

On the other hand, AA and UA can use this to their huge advantage in a business travel market that remains cheap and continues to cut costs.

[Edited 2013-01-16 14:43:04]
a.
 
LAXintl
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RE: Rumor: DL Skymiles To Add Revenue Requirement

Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:04 pm

Quoting alitalia744 (Reply 5):
Should be able to change title from rumor to fact in a day or so.....

Glad to hear it.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 8):
On the other hand, AA and UA can use this to their huge advantage in a business travel market that remains cheap and continues to cut costs.

I'm not sure this a problem for the business travel market.
A single ticket alone can be in the thousands so folks are likely to meet the thresholds easily.
Anyhow corporate contracts also often come with automatic status, so I don't see DL pushing this traffic away.

Such a change is meant to police the lower end traveler, the leisure traveler that might do some longer trips to earn status but does so on el chepo fares. If the SWA experience is an example, the shift can encourage folks to purchase up, or jump through new hoops to attain or retain status with subsequent yield improvement for the airline.

Basically the concept is simple - the more $$$ you bring, the more valuable client you are. Seems very fair imo.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
BD338
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RE: Rumor: DL Skymiles To Add Revenue Requirement

Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:31 pm

I can see a near meltdown coming over on Flyertalk   but this is long overdue IMHO. Total revenue is a far better indicator of benefit to a company than the number of times a purchase occurs. The old loyalty programs have just about run their day, in todays environment of cheaper fares (compared to when the programs were originally launched) focusing on the true revenue generator seems to make a lot more sense.

How long until the requirement is pure revenue based AND awards are revenue based?
 
MAH4546
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RE: Rumor: DL Skymiles To Add Revenue Requirement

Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:54 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9):
Quoting mah4546 (Reply 8):
On the other hand, AA and UA can use this to their huge advantage in a business travel market that remains cheap and continues to cut costs.

I'm not sure this a problem for the business travel market.
A single ticket alone can be in the thousands so folks are likely to meet the thresholds easily.
Anyhow corporate contracts also often come with automatic status, so I don't see DL pushing this traffic away.

I'm not talking about corporate contracts. I'm talking about the majority of businesses in this country, which don't book through a corporate travel office.
a.
 
ordbosewr
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RE: Rumor: DL Skymiles To Add Revenue Requirement

Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:21 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9):
Anyhow corporate contracts also often come with automatic status, so I don't see DL pushing this traffic away.

I would question this as a fact. I work for a very large US company that has contracts with ALL of the US majors and many other majors throughout the world and only a select few get any benefits from our contract. All of my counterparts do not get any automatic benefits from the airlines. We have to earn it.
From our hotel partners we do get benefits from our corporate contracts

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9):
I'm not sure this a problem for the business travel market.

I will agree with this aspect. If the thresholds are as described above I would see this as an easy hurdle for the corporate folks.
I am a UA platinum traveler and would say that for me to get $12.5K would happen well before I hit the 75K miles requirement that exist for UA. Last year I spent over $40K for just about 80K in PQM.
Some of this is based on the markets and routes one flies, but it is only getting more expensive for a business traveler.
I really want to know who can get to silver without spending $2,500. That is such a small number.

I echo other comments that all of the boards for frequent fliers will explode with this news, but I feel this is not a big deal.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Rumor: DL Skymiles To Add Revenue Requirement

Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:27 am

Quoting panamair (Reply 4):
which basically amounts to $0.10 per MQM.

That's reasonable. I think it is easy to achieve on normal, discounted domestic travel. If you fly 25k miles a year domestically, even on deep discounts, that's easily $2500. Even at $400-500 R/T transcons, you should get there in dollars about the same time you get there with miles. If AMEX spends help, then a few thousand dollars a year make up the difference.

What it does is undercut those who earn status with a discounted long distance flight or two on a mileage partner airline. Those make DL no money and show no loyalty.
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tonytifao
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RE: Rumor: DL Skymiles To Add Revenue Requirement

Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:31 am

Last year I spent about 8k and just made silver!  
 
LAXintl
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RE: Rumor: DL Skymiles To Add Revenue Requirement

Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:55 am

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 11):
I'm not talking about corporate contracts. I'm talking about the majority of businesses in this country, which don't book through a corporate travel office.

Again, I fail to see this is much an issue for business travelers or any one that is somewhat a regular traveler.

Spending up to $2,500 could be accomplished in a matter of a handful of domestic Y class flights flights, and even a $12,500 spend could be had with a few longer premium trips.

I am sure DL has done some homework to identify the type of customer it can either churn out of Medallion status, or encourage them to meet the added revenue thresholds.
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questions
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RE: Rumor: DL Skymiles To Add Revenue Requirement

Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:55 am

DL should dump the miles and segments requirement. The program should be based only on revenue spent.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Rumor: DL Skymiles To Add Revenue Requirement

Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:59 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 15):
Again, I fail to see this is much an issue for business travelers or any one that is somewhat a regular traveler.

Perception. DL does it, UA and AA don't (and likely won't in the near term).

That's a problem. A big problem.

Skymiles is already arguably the worst FF program in the industry, and this doesn't help.

[Edited 2013-01-16 18:00:40]
a.
 
akelley728
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RE: Rumor: DL Skymiles To Add Revenue Requirement

Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:02 am

Quoting deltaffindfw (Reply 6):
I don't see this as a huge issue. If you assume around $350/ticket (which for me is low), it's only 22 tickets/year for platinum or 35 for diamond. Most of those people will fly more than that, and probably pay more per ticket.

I agree totally. $0.10 per MQM is very doable even on leisure fares. For example, LGA-FLL is around $200 on Delta in February. Round trip is approximately 2000 miles. One would have to do 25 round-trips for 50,000 miles and $5000. If someone has frequent business in Florida and goes there every other week, it's done.

[Edited 2013-01-16 18:18:44]
 
Akiestar
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RE: Rumor: DL Skymiles To Add Revenue Requirement

Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:04 am

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 13):
What it does is undercut those who earn status with a discounted long distance flight or two on a mileage partner airline. Those make DL no money and show no loyalty.

Just because we non-U.S. based Medallions (like myself) can only afford to fly once or twice a year on discounted long-haul flights does not mean we are any less loyal to Delta than those who live in the United States and can afford to fly DL on full-fare tickets year-round. It isn't my fault, therefore, that I chose to go to Europe flying KLM instead of going to the U.S. flying Delta.

I actually want to see how DL intends to roll this out outside the United States, where it would be difficult to meet the new revenue requirements, especially when DL merely flies us either to Japan or the United States.

[Edited 2013-01-16 18:06:22]
 
ikramerica
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RE: Rumor: DL Skymiles To Add Revenue Requirement

Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:25 am

Quoting Akiestar (Reply 19):
Just because we non-U.S. based Medallions (like myself) can only afford to fly once or twice a year on discounted long-haul flights does not mean we are any less loyal to Delta than those who live in the United States and can afford to fly DL on full-fare tickets year-round. It isn't my fault, therefore, that I chose to go to Europe flying KLM instead of going to the U.S. flying Delta.

But you offer no value to DL. Sorry, but you don't.

And if you actually read what I wrote, I said flying on PARTNER airlines, not on DL. DL gets no money from these people, yet has to give them status?
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
questions
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RE: Rumor: DL Skymiles To Add Revenue Requirement

Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:31 am

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 17):
Skymiles is already arguably the worst FF program in the industry, and this doesn't help.

Or maybe it does. Observation 1: the 100% bonus for F/J. Observation 2: the structure is telling customers that DL is not interested in the low spend customer. DL's target customer is the high spend customer and they are tailoring SkyMiles to attract those customers. If I had a lot of money I'd prefer this over flying around with the upgraders and unattractive IT consultants.
 
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fanoftristars
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RE: Rumor: DL Skymiles To Add Revenue Requirement

Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:43 am

Quoting panamair (Reply 4):

If these numbers are correct, then I think this is a great way to go. I spend we'll over the PM level, but I know there are many who don't but achieve PM status. If we can eliminate some of those who game the system and compete on dollars, then I think this would be ok. The thresholds seem low enough to be a reasonable shift.
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Akiestar
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RE: Rumor: DL Skymiles To Add Revenue Requirement

Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:51 am

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 20):
But you offer no value to DL. Sorry, but you don't.

And if you actually read what I wrote, I said flying on PARTNER airlines, not on DL. DL gets no money from these people, yet has to give them status?

Oh, I read that clearly, thanks.

I can concede to the argument if all your Skymiles members (and Medallions) are within the United States. I understand DL wanting to make status more meritocratic through introducing some sort of revenue requirement. But this smacks of the opposite: in effect, non-U.S. based Skymiles members who want to earn status will have to work much harder than the U.S.-based counterparts to earn status. That's unfair.

I've been loyal to DL for the last 13 years because I see the value in their program (aside from being grandfathered in when NW merged with DL), despite being convinced otherwise when I was still active on FlyerTalk. How is my loyalty any less valuable than yours, for example? Just because most of the people on this thread can afford to fly DL year-round and earn status in the process, we should antagonize frequent flyers who, by virtue of the random lottery of life, were born outside the United States, and by luck or circumstance, just happened to earn status by availing of the flights available to them? We shouldn't be penalized just because we decide to fly CZ, CI, KE, KL and the like, when DL only flies to Asia once or twice a day.

As far as I'm concerned, if this pushes through, especially outside the United States, there will be a lot of ill will in this part of the world. Low-yielding markets or not, DL gets a lot of traffic here, and I would presume we have a lot of FFs based in Asia (I know here we do, otherwise MNL wouldn't have a Sky Club). I hope they won't turn people off.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 17):
Perception. DL does it, UA and AA don't (and likely won't in the near term).

That's a problem. A big problem.

Skymiles is already arguably the worst FF program in the industry, and this doesn't help.

  
 
StuckInCA
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RE: Rumor: DL Skymiles To Add Revenue Requirement

Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:56 am

Quoting tonytifao (Reply 14):

I'd guess (too lazy to look) that I spent between $8k and $10k last year with delta and have no status. I guess that won't change though.
 
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fanoftristars
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RE: Rumor: DL Skymiles To Add Revenue Requirement

Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:57 am

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 20):
And if you actually read what I wrote, I said flying on PARTNER airlines, not on DL. DL gets no money from these people, yet has to give them status?

Not so fast... Many of DL partners are also Joint Venture partners and they share risk/revenue on certain flights. For instance AF/KLM and Alitalia are essentially one airline across the Atlantic. So if I fly AF from JFK to CDG, DL is still earning revenue.
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Cubsrule
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RE: Rumor: DL Skymiles To Add Revenue Requirement

Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:05 am

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 8):
On the other hand, AA and UA can use this to their huge advantage in a business travel market that remains cheap and continues to cut costs.

That presumes that for business travelers, this will make it harder to get status. I don't know that that's true. In years in which I don't use DL for longhaul, my DL spend is usually between $3,000 and $5,000 and I'm typically between 10,000 and 15,000 miles. So for me, it's a net positive. If I was doing a lot of $450 BNA-SLC-LAX trips, I wouldn't be real happy. I don't know that it's possible to generalize.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 17):
Perception. DL does it, UA and AA don't (and likely won't in the near term).

That's a problem. A big problem.

How will it be perceived? Different isn't necessarily bad. A lot of folks I know who have WN status but fly legacies a lot (many if not most frequent business travelers in Nashville) prefer the WN system.
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UALFAson
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RE: Rumor: DL Skymiles To Add Revenue Requirement

Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:34 am

I get the idea in theory, but they've set the dollar spend low enough relative to the miles required that it would be so difficult to hit one and not the other that it almost doesn't seem worth the administrative effort and the potential customer pushback.

Take cubsrule's example above. At $450 for a BNA-SLC-LAX roundtrip, 5 r/t's would cost you $2,250, or just short of the $2,500 threshhold. But at just under 2,000 miles each way or 4,000 r/t, you'd also still only be at ~20,000 miles, or one more r/t short of status anyway.

25,000 miles equates to 5 JFK-LAX roundtrips a year at just about 5,000 miles per r/t. How many people are going to do that but also happen to spend less than $500 on every single one of their tickets? And does Delta really want to tell those people thanks but no thanks anyway?

Let's say at the other extreme a person only does 2 or 3 international r/t per year. First of all, in order to fly long enough routes to achieve Silver status on miles alone, you're looking at pretty long flights that are probably going to cost more than $850-$1500 r/t anyway. Second, even if you do somehow achieve status under the old rules without the spend, you're only taking 2 flights a year anyway, so it's not like you're costing the company a ton of money in extra services provided.

This would have made more sense a few years ago when airlines were offering $99 coast-to-coast flights. Now it just seems like it won't really make much difference.
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Cubsrule
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RE: Rumor: DL Skymiles To Add Revenue Requirement

Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:46 am

Quoting UALFAson (Reply 27):
I get the idea in theory, but they've set the dollar spend low enough relative to the miles required that it would be so difficult to hit one and not the other that it almost doesn't seem worth the administrative effort and the potential customer pushback.

You are half right, I think. There aren't too many folks who have status now who will not have status under the new system. But there seem to be a larger number of folks who will get status under the new system who don't have it now.

Last year was a very light year of DL travel for me. I had 7 segments (BNA-ATL-BNA booked in M, BNA-ATL-CAE booked in Y, ILM-ATL-BNA booked in something very cheap, MSP-BNA booked in B). I think that is only around 5,600 MQMs, but by my quick and dirty math I spent right around $2,500. It's a lot easier for someone like me to get status in a revenue-based system, but that's because my average fare class is pretty high and I fly a lot of higher-fare (i.e. short) routes.
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UALFAson
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RE: Rumor: DL Skymiles To Add Revenue Requirement

Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:53 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 28):
But there seem to be a larger number of folks who will get status under the new system who don't have it now.

Ah, good point! Thanks for the personal example. I didn't think of the other side of the coin.
"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
 
jetlanta
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RE: Rumor: DL Skymiles To Add Revenue Requirement

Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:00 am

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 8):

This isn't going to last if AA and UA don't follow suit. And with UA's merger issues and AA's BK, I doubt either will follow suit in the short term.

On one hand, sure, if AA and UA follow suit, what does it matter, because its not like customers have any choice.

On the other hand, AA and UA can use this to their huge advantage in a business travel market that remains cheap and continues to cut costs.

UA has been looking at something like this for at least a couple of years. It won't take them long to follow. The biggest issue has been the first-mover thing, followed by technology. Most of these airlines actually don't have the sort of technology in place to move to a revenue-based system easily. So they have to build it. Its not cheap nor easy.
 
akelley728
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RE: Rumor: DL Skymiles To Add Revenue Requirement

Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:19 am

Let's clear up some misconceptions here....

Quoting Akiestar (Reply 19):

Just because we non-U.S. based Medallions (like myself) can only afford to fly once or twice a year on discounted long-haul flights does not mean we are any less loyal to Delta than those who live in the United States and can afford to fly DL on full-fare tickets year-round. It isn't my fault, therefore, that I chose to go to Europe flying KLM instead of going to the U.S. flying Delta.

I actually want to see how DL intends to roll this out outside the United States, where it would be difficult to meet the new revenue requirements, especially when DL merely flies us either to Japan or the United States.

The new Skymiles rules are for U.S. residents only. I hope that its because Delta realizes the challenges to fly only Delta metal for those who live outside the U.S., and not a "phase I / phase II" thing. Plus, I believe it has NOT been confirmed that flights on partners will not count towards the new revenue thresholds.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 28):
You are half right, I think. There aren't too many folks who have status now who will not have status under the new system. But there seem to be a larger number of folks who will get status under the new system who don't have it now.

Umm, you're half right as well  
You'll need to meet the milage AND revenue requirements. For Silver, you need 25,000 MQM as well as spend $2,500 MQD. So there will definitely be less people in the new system.
 
Av8rDAL
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RE: Rumor: DL Skymiles To Add Revenue Requirement

Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:29 am

Quoting akelley728 (Reply 31):
Umm, you're half right as well
You'll need to meet the milage AND revenue requirements. For Silver, you need 25,000 MQM as well as spend $2,500 MQD. So there will definitely be less people in the new system.

Silver is essentially worthless anyway, aside for being called a Silver Medallion. Your best shot at upgrades is on empty flights on off-peak times, and the rest of the benefits you can almost cover just by having an AMEX Skymiles Gold Card. Add a few perks to the Silver level, and this may encourage more people to spend AND accrue MQMs.

As for myself, I'm a "retiring" Gold Medallion, downgrading to Silver this year due to job change and less travel. Corporate travel policy dictates "lowest fare possible" regardless of layovers, so I've been accumulating on United, Delta, and Southwest lately.

I believe this is ultimately a short term wise move for DL, as long as they do not alienate too many current elites who fly exclusively on discounted fares on saturated, competitive routes. The dollar threshold will be a very sensitive variable.
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PlaneInsomniac
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RE: Rumor: DL Skymiles To Add Revenue Requirement

Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:44 am

Does anybody know whether "revenue" will includes taxes and fees, or will it only be based on the net fares? Will the bonus factors for existing elite (e.g., additional 50%) also apply to the credited revenue? I assume flights on AF and KL will likely count for the revenue minimum?

Thanks!

Quoting akelley728 (Reply 31):
The new Skymiles rules are for U.S. residents only.

I don't quite understand. Does this mean for non-U.S. members, the old rules will remain in place unchanged?
Am I cured? Slept 5 hours on last long-haul flight...
 
Akiestar
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RE: Rumor: DL Skymiles To Add Revenue Requirement

Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:51 am

Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Reply 33):
I don't quite understand. Does this mean for non-U.S. members, the old rules will remain in place unchanged?

Apparently so (and what a relief, too!), but with DL scrubbing all details of the 2013 rule changes from their website according to people down at FlyerTalk, I wonder if this will continue to be the case.
 
PI4EVER
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RE: Rumor: DL Skymiles To Add Revenue Requirement

Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:25 pm

As akelley728 pointed out, I understand you still must reach the MQM levels PLUS revenue $ to attain status. You can't buy 2 roundtrip tickets to Europe at $1250 each, accrue about 10K miles per roundtrip and be a Silver.
So the business travelers will likely continue to be OK unless they are affected by a corporate policy of buying "low fare" tickets only and they can't fly DL by price.
After 128K miles/98 segments in 2012 I made Diamond this year. I look forward to enjoying the perks, but I am curtailing a lot of business travel this year, and I will be lucky to hit Gold for next year......by miles flown or money spent.
And don't forget. DL makes a TON OF REVENUE on selling MQM's every November and December to Medallions who are running "short" to keep or bump up to next level of status, so revenue in any form, coupled with flying spells success for DL and I think they're gutsy enough to be the first to put this miles and revenue program into play.
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Cubsrule
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RE: Rumor: DL Skymiles To Add Revenue Requirement

Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:46 pm

Quoting akelley728 (Reply 31):
You'll need to meet the milage AND revenue requirements.

Then I guess I don't understand the point. These days, it's pretty hard to spend less than 10 cents a mile.
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Jerseyguy
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RE: Rumor: DL Skymiles To Add Revenue Requirement

Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:05 pm

Quoting Akiestar (Reply 23):
How is my loyalty any less valuable than yours, for example?

Here's the deal, Delta is a business, they are here to make money. Therefore if your loyalty doesn't make them the same amount of money then another person then that other persons loyality is more valuable. If DL recieves money from codeshares then Delta should credit you for the part of the ticket that they receive otherwise you are no value to Delta when you fly on that flight.
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0newair0
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RE: Rumor: DL Skymiles To Add Revenue Requirement

Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:46 pm

I'm fairly certain this, very welcomed, change will not affect the majority of frequent flyers because the MQD values are so low. I did the math on the routes I fly and I meet the new "MQD" thresholds farily quickly but I still need double or triple the number of trips (depending on the the price and length of the flights I used for the calculation) to meet either the existing MQS threshold or the existing MQM threshold.

[Edited 2013-01-17 06:27:06]
"The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams."
 
Akiestar
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RE: Rumor: DL Skymiles To Add Revenue Requirement

Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:11 pm

Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 37):
Here's the deal, Delta is a business, they are here to make money. Therefore if your loyalty doesn't make them the same amount of money then another person then that other persons loyality is more valuable. If DL recieves money from codeshares then Delta should credit you for the part of the ticket that they receive otherwise you are no value to Delta when you fly on that flight.

How do you build loyalty by gutting people from the program, and in the words of someone down at FlyerTalk, giving a big F-U to lower-tier elites?

DL is lucky that they can buy my loyalty for so cheap. I appreciate the free bag, the use of Sky Priority on partner airlines, the 25% Silver Medallion mileage bonus and priority boarding. Aside from the free bag and probably the free bonus miles, I don't think keeping FOs happy really makes such a big dent on DL's bottom line. And for that, I am happy and content: heck, I could care less about lounges and upgrades, but getting me on the plane first is a big deal! And I don't think that costs DL a penny.

On the other hand, it costs DL much more to maintain the perks given to elites on higher tiers. Lounges, upgrades, SWUs, generous doleouts of miles and the like will certainly cost DL more than the chump change they currently give FOs like myself. If they want to thin the ranks, fine, but at least do it in a manner wherein there are still meaningful avenues for people to reasonably build up loyalty. Our butts fill DL's seats too, you know, and I certainly don't think DL wants those seats to go empty. "Disavowed" elites might as well do that if DL essentially says that "hey, we could care less about your loyalty", and go about just buying tickets on price and convenience alone.

Anyway, DL has finally spoken, officially: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta...edallion-qualification-update.html
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Rumor: DL Skymiles To Add Revenue Requirement

Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:17 pm

Quoting Akiestar (Reply 39):
How do you build loyalty by gutting people from the program, and in the words of someone down at FlyerTalk, giving a big F-U to lower-tier elites?

DL is interested in money, not loyalty. That's why they have the credit card qualification avenues they do. The easy way to not "give a big F-U to lower level elites" is to make the ranks of lower level elites smaller, and the easy way to do that (while still rewarding loyalty) is to make people fly all of their MQMs.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Akiestar
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RE: Rumor: DL Skymiles To Add Revenue Requirement

Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:25 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 40):
DL is interested in money, not loyalty.

Revenue begets loyalty. If people feel that DL doesn't value them, then what's the point of flying DL? Either way, DL risks flying those seats empty, which I don't think it wants.

As far as I know, DL is essentially gambling that these seats will not go empty regardless of the changes. But what happens if they do?

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 40):
the easy way to do that (while still rewarding loyalty) is to make people fly all of their MQMs.

I flew every single MQM I earned on DL and partners. So does that make me less valuable, therefore?
 
rwsea
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RE: Rumor: DL Skymiles To Add Revenue Requirement

Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:26 pm

For the majority of DELTA flyers, this probably won't have much impact. However, it will probably have an impact on the following:

- "mileage runners" who buy very cheap fares with the purpose of getting elite status
- Skymiles members who earn their elite status by flying mostly on partner airlines (AS, etc.). I would imagine however that JV partners AF/KL/AZ and KE would be included since they are revenue neutral across the respective ocean and tracking connecting flights in Europe, etc. separately would be too cumbersome
 
BD338
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RE: Rumor: DL Skymiles To Add Revenue Requirement

Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:29 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 26):
my DL spend is usually between $3,000 and $5,000 and I'm typically between 10,000 and 15,000 miles. So for me, it's a net positive

[quote=Cubsrule,reply=28]I had 7 segments (BNA-ATL-BNA booked in M, BNA-ATL-CAE booked in Y, ILM-ATL-BNA booked in something very cheap, MSP-BNA booked in B). I think that is only around 5,600 MQMs, but by my quick and dirty math I spent right around $2,500. It's a lot easier for someone like me to get status in a revenue-based system, but that's because my average fare class is pretty high and I fly a lot of higher-fare (i.e. short) routes.


Under the new system you still wouldn't have any status. The requirement is $2500 AND 25,000 miles for Silver, and so on for the other tiers.

Delta has now posted the new program on delta.com starts Jan 1 ,2014

http://www.delta.com/content/www/en_...out-skymiles/news-and-updates.html
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Rumor: DL Skymiles To Add Revenue Requirement

Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:31 pm

Quoting Akiestar (Reply 41):
I flew every single MQM I earned on DL and partners. So does that make me less valuable, therefore?

To DL, it does. (I'm not saying that choice is right or wrong, but it's different from how things were, say, a decade ago.)

Quoting Akiestar (Reply 41):
Revenue begets loyalty. If people feel that DL doesn't value them, then what's the point of flying DL?

There isn't one unless DL has the best schedule. I think this is the source of Delta's worse than hoped results in some of the so-called "S-curve markets." I don't go out of my way to fly Delta. I don't know why I would.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Akiestar
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RE: Rumor: DL Skymiles To Add Revenue Requirement

Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:33 pm

Quoting rwsea (Reply 42):
- Skymiles members who earn their elite status by flying mostly on partner airlines (AS, etc.). I would imagine however that JV partners AF/KL/AZ and KE would be included since they are revenue neutral across the respective ocean and tracking connecting flights in Europe, etc. separately would be too cumbersome

According to DL, partner flights are not included unless they are booked on DL stock. To quote:

Quote:
MQDs are the total of the SkyMiles member’s spend on Delta-marketed flights (flight numbers that include the “DL” airline code), inclusive of the base fare and applicable surcharges, but exclusive of government- imposed taxes and fees.

Flight spend for travel on other airlines ticketed through a Delta channel (featuring a ticket number beginning with “006”) will also be included in MQDs.
http://www.delta.com/content/www/en_...on-qualification-dollars-faqs.html
 
RamblinMan
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RE: Rumor: DL Skymiles To Add Revenue Requirement

Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:51 pm

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 17):

Perception. DL does it, UA and AA don't (and likely won't in the near term).
That's a problem. A big problem.
Skymiles is already arguably the worst FF program in the industry, and this doesn't help.

Or if it significantly pares down the ranks of elites, thereby increasing the upgrade chances for those who remain, along with other small changes like the 100% bonus for premium cabins, I can see this possibly turning SkyMiles into the BEST program in the industry.

Not that I'm happy about it...I'll be one of the ones squeezed out. But DL doesn't survive on customers like me, and I readily admit that.

Quoting Akiestar (Reply 19):
Just because we non-U.S. based Medallions (like myself) can only afford to fly once or twice a year on discounted long-haul flights does not mean we are any less loyal to Delta than those who live in the United States and can afford to fly DL on full-fare tickets year-round.

Unfortunately your loyalty does not make the company money. This is a business.
 
Akiestar
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RE: Rumor: DL Skymiles To Add Revenue Requirement

Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:14 pm

Quoting RamblinMan (Reply 46):
Unfortunately your loyalty does not make the company money. This is a business.

The money spent on me flying DL is still money that goes to DL's pockets, so I don't buy the argument that they don't make any money from lower-tier elites and ordinary people. I may be low-yielding, yes, but low-yielding is still better for DL's bottom line than no yield at all.

At any rate, thank goodness I live outside the United States, and I am unaffected by all these program changes. But this will not bide well for U.S.-based elites no matter how palliative DL tries to make it.
 
rwsea
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RE: Rumor: DL Skymiles To Add Revenue Requirement

Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:17 pm

Quoting Akiestar (Reply 45):
According to DL, partner flights are not included unless they are booked on DL stock. To quote:

Interesting. I'm curious how this will work then in the case that I fly PDX-AMS-DEL and return, for example. Half of the itinerary is on DL and the other half on KL.
 
panamair
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RE: Rumor: DL Skymiles To Add Revenue Requirement

Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:24 pm

Quoting rwsea (Reply 48):
Interesting. I'm curious how this will work then in the case that I fly PDX-AMS-DEL and return, for example. Half of the itinerary is on DL and the other half on KL.

If the ticket is all on DL stock (ticket stock starting with 006), then you're OK. Or, if the entire itinerary is on the DL code, including the AMS-DEL portion, then you're also OK.

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