brons2
Topic Author
Posts: 2462
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2001 1:02 pm

FAA Grounds 787

Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:07 pm

Per Reuters on Twitter, no details yet.
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
brons2
Topic Author
Posts: 2462
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2001 1:02 pm

RE: FAA Grounds 787

Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:09 pm

Link to Reuters' Twitter profile: https://twitter.com/Reuters
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
135mech
Posts: 410
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 5:56 pm

RE: FAA Grounds 787

Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:10 pm

I hope like crazy they are able to fix these problems and fast!

135Mech
135Mech
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 13850
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

RE: FAA Grounds 787

Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:12 pm

As my Scandinavian friend says, "Now the cow has gotten onto the ice!"  
Inspiration, move me brightly! Light the song with sense and color.
Hold away despair, more than this I will not ask.
Faced with mysteries dark and vast, statements just seem vain at last.
Some rise, some fall, some climb, to get to Terrapin!
 
brons2
Topic Author
Posts: 2462
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2001 1:02 pm

RE: FAA Grounds 787

Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:15 pm

They still don't have an article posted, but this tweet followed the original one:

Quote:
Reuters Top News ‏@Reuters

FAA: Will work with Boeing, airlines to develop corrective action plan to resume 787 operations as "quickly and safely as possible"
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
rsmith6621a
Posts: 1507
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 2:21 pm

RE: FAA Grounds 787

Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:15 pm

Quoting brons2 (Reply 1):
https://twitter.com/Reuters

I dont find it.
Did You Ever Think Freedom Could Be this Bad
 
kalvado
Posts: 482
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:29 am

RE: FAA Grounds 787

Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:16 pm

I really wonder if they did it on PR grounds, or FAA got some data from past events and have specific concerns...
 
135mech
Posts: 410
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 5:56 pm

RE: FAA Grounds 787

Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:18 pm

Quoting rsmith6621a (Reply 5):
Quoting brons2 (Reply 1):
https://twitter.com/Reuters


I dont find it.

Just do a twitter search for @Reuters and you will...simple.

135Mech
135Mech
 
brons2
Topic Author
Posts: 2462
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2001 1:02 pm

RE: FAA Grounds 787

Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:19 pm

Press F5 to refresh? it was posted 14 minutes ago. Still no link to an article.
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
ozglobal
Posts: 2517
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 7:33 am

RE: FAA Grounds 787

Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:20 pm

There a a number of news articles running this story now. US registered 787s grounded until operators can prove the Li ion batteries to be safe....
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
BoeingVista
Posts: 1684
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:54 am

RE: FAA Grounds 787

Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:21 pm

So the FAA sides with me and Daysleeper against A.net. and for exactly the reasons I came to; a second Li-Ion battery incident. The FAA decides to err on the side of caution rather than emotion and denial from vested interests, this is their job.

I don't claim to be a genius, this isn't rocket science but 99% of the message board was on the wrong side of this. At last I have become one of the 1%

I'm happy to let all of the insults of the past week slide by.
BV
 
texan
Posts: 4059
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 2:23 am

RE: FAA Grounds 787

Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:25 pm

The Seattle Times seems to confirm Reuters report of the 787 grounding on their homepage. Will follow with interest.

Texan
"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
 
seahawks7757
Posts: 157
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:54 pm

RE: FAA Grounds 787

Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:25 pm

Not good at all, still waiting for an official statement from the FAA.
 
jodoloy
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:59 pm

RE: FAA Grounds 787

Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:30 pm

Boeing's stock price is probably going to plummet tomorrow. Any predictions as to how much?
 
User avatar
Ncfc99
Posts: 779
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 2:42 am

RE: FAA Grounds 787

Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:30 pm

UA033 has returned to NRT according to airlineroute on twitter. Reasons unknown at this time.
 
jodoloy
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:59 pm

RE: FAA Grounds 787

Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:31 pm

Boeing's stock price is probably going to plummet tomorrow. Any predictions as to how much?
 
brons2
Topic Author
Posts: 2462
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2001 1:02 pm

RE: FAA Grounds 787

Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:32 pm

I couldn't access a.net for a few minutes there.

It figures...787 Grounded, Airliners.net Crashes!  
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
seahawks7757
Posts: 157
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:54 pm

RE: FAA Grounds 787

Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:39 pm

Article updated with full FAA Release at the bottom-
http://www.airlinereporter.com/2013/...ner-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 13850
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

RE: FAA Grounds 787

Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:50 pm

Reuters stuff from Twitter:

Quote:

FAA: International aviation authorities alerted about any groundings of Boeing 787s so they can take parallel action
31m Reuters Top News Reuters Top News ‏@Reuters

FAA: Battery failures on Boeing 787s could damage critical systems and structures, spark fire, if not corrected
35m Reuters Top News Reuters Top News ‏@Reuters

FAA: Will also examine Boeing 787 batteries as part of comprehensive review announced last week
35m Reuters Top News Reuters Top News ‏@Reuters

FAA: Decision to ground Boeing 787s prompted by second incident involving lithium ion battery failure

Times relative to the time of this post.

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 11):
So the FAA sides with me and Daysleeper against A.net. and for exactly the reasons I came to; a second Li-Ion battery incident.

At least it wasn't you claiming that breaks in your tennis racket, golf club or bicycle had anything to do with anything.

I was coming to the conclusion that a grounding was going to be necessary from a PR point of view after this 2nd Li-Ion incident. Most people won't be comfortable with the 2nd event being labelled as 'random' or 'an unfortunate statistical grouping'.

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 11):
The FAA decides to err on the side of caution rather than emotion and denial from vested interests, this is their job.

I thought the theory was that the bad old FAA was emasculated by their "dual role", was faking the tests, was incompetent, etc.
Inspiration, move me brightly! Light the song with sense and color.
Hold away despair, more than this I will not ask.
Faced with mysteries dark and vast, statements just seem vain at last.
Some rise, some fall, some climb, to get to Terrapin!
 
User avatar
cosyr
Posts: 752
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:23 pm

RE: FAA Grounds 787

Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:08 am

Does this effect foreign 787 flying to/from the US?
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 7610
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

RE: FAA Grounds 787

Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:08 am

Holy ravioli !

PS : this news item has killed the forum !
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
CM
Posts: 623
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:17 am

RE: FAA Grounds 787

Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:17 am

Quoting cosyr (Reply 23):
Does this effect foreign 787 flying to/from the US?

Yes. When the AD is issued, it will apply to US flagged aircraft, as well as those flying into US airspace.
 
flood
Posts: 1045
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2009 7:05 pm

RE: FAA Grounds 787

Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:24 am

FAA's official statement:

January 16, 2013

As a result of an in-flight, Boeing 787 battery incident earlier today in Japan, the FAA will issue an emergency airworthiness directive (AD) to address a potential battery fire risk in the 787 and require operators to temporarily cease operations. Before further flight, operators of U.S.-registered, Boeing 787 aircraft must demonstrate to the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) that the batteries are safe.

The FAA will work with the manufacturer and carriers to develop a corrective action plan to allow the U.S. 787 fleet to resume operations as quickly and safely as possible.

The in-flight Japanese battery incident followed an earlier 787 battery incident that occurred on the ground in Boston on January 7, 2013. The AD is prompted by this second incident involving a lithium ion battery. The battery failures resulted in release of flammable electrolytes, heat damage, and smoke on two Model 787 airplanes. The root cause of these failures is currently under investigation. These conditions, if not corrected, could result in damage to critical systems and structures, and the potential for fire in the electrical compartment.

Last Friday, the FAA announced a comprehensive review of the 787’s critical systems with the possibility of further action pending new data and information. In addition to the continuing review of the aircraft’s design, manufacture and assembly, the agency also will validate that 787 batteries and the battery system on the aircraft are in compliance with the special condition the agency issued as part of the aircraft’s certification.

United Airlines is currently the only U.S. airline operating the 787, with six airplanes in service. When the FAA issues an airworthiness directive, it also alerts the international aviation community to the action so other civil aviation authorities can take parallel action to cover the fleets operating in their own countries.

http://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_story.cfm?newsId=14233
 
dcann40
Posts: 129
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:38 pm

RE: FAA Grounds 787

Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:31 am

Link to story

FAA Grounds United's Dreamliners

Quote:
The Federal Aviation Administration ordered an immediate halt to Boeing Dreamliner flights by U.S. airlines. United Airlines is the only U.S. airline currently operating the Dreamliner....



[Edited 2013-01-16 16:54:14]
 
Norcal773
Posts: 1052
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:19 pm

RE: FAA Grounds 787

Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:37 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 21):
At least it wasn't you claiming that breaks in your tennis racket, golf club or bicycle had anything to do with anything.

Yeah, that was pure comic really.

So what happens to UA 32 which is 6 hours out of NRT over the Pacific? Divert to Alaska or continue on?

Quoting CM (Reply 25):
When the AD is issued, it will apply to US flagged aircraft, as well as those flying into US airspace.

So LOT is screwed on their inaugural flight to LAX? Had it departed when this was announced?
If you're going through hell, keep going
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 21036
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

RE: FAA Grounds 787

Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:38 am

Shame to see this but for the best before the unthinkable happened !
 
RussianJet
Posts: 5982
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:15 am

RE: FAA Grounds 787

Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:39 am

Cue loads of comments about 'how is this even news' etc etc, and 'this happens all the time with new types'......

Oh wait - it finally IS news about the 787!
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
User avatar
clickhappy
Posts: 9042
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 12:10 pm

RE: FAA Grounds 787

Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:39 am

Not all 787s are grounded, this one flew today (on an engineering flight):

http://www.flickr.com/photos/royalscottking/8387239371/in/photostream
 
Asiaflyer
Posts: 704
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:50 am

RE: FAA Grounds 787

Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:47 am

Quoting flood (Reply 26):
the agency also will validate that 787 batteries and the battery system on the aircraft are in compliance with the special condition the agency issued as part of the aircraft’s certification.


Unlikely that FAA will let the 787 fly again until something has changed. Will the battery type change, or will the battery system be redesigned? Obviously those two are not best buddies at the moment.
SQ,MI,MH,CX,KA,CA,CZ,MU,KE,OZ,QF,NZ,FD,JQ,3K,5J,IT,AI,IC,QR,SK,LF,KL,AF,LH,LX,OS,SR,BA,SN,FR,WF,1I,5T,VZ,VX,AC,NW,UA,US,
 
CO953
Posts: 364
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:05 am

RE: FAA Grounds 787

Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:51 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 21):
I was coming to the conclusion that a grounding was going to be necessary from a PR point of view after this 2nd Li-Ion incident. Most people won't be comfortable with the 2nd event being labelled as 'random' or 'an unfortunate statistical grouping'.

Yeah, I got talked down to kind of snarkily at the end of the last thread for suggesting that the PR angle was going to give Boeing a tough choice. I may be a noob here, and not a pilot or aviator, but I'm experienced in business affairs enough to know that the focus cannot always be solely engineering, even in the ivory tower of aviation purism. Boeing is marketing a product, just as Whirlpool makes stoves. A very complicated product, sure. But once the public starts hearing about repeated fires, they eventually think twice about booking flights. You have to do something to restore public trust. I applaud a decision that some may think hasty, on the grounds of the old adage, "a stitch in time saves nine." Stop the bleeding now.
 
PHX787
Posts: 7877
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:46 pm

RE: FAA Grounds 787

Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:54 am

Well the proverbial s--- has hit the fan. Boeings stock took a nose dive today.

[Edited 2013-01-16 17:01:46]
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
SCQ83
Posts: 2727
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

RE: FAA Grounds 787

Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:56 am

So who and which routes are still flying the 787?

- JAL: grounded
- ANA: grounded
- UA: grounded
- QR: grounded

That leaves Ethiopian, LAN, LOT and Air India, but some of their routes are to/from the US. I understand those routes are not allowed either for the 787, are they? Will for instance LAN or AI will keep flying the 787 domestically or regionally?
 
CM
Posts: 623
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:17 am

RE: FAA Grounds 787

Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:56 am

Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 25):
So LOT is screwed on their inaugural flight to LAX? Had it departed when this was announced?

Not necessarily. To my knowledge the AD has not yet been issued, so the grounding is not yet in legal effect. It is common when this type of action is taken for the FAA to inform the world the AD is coming (which has been done), then to wait for a period before issuing the AD. This affords operators an opportunity to position the airplanes and make accommodations for the missing aircraft in their flight schedule.
 
holzmann
Posts: 494
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:43 pm

RE: FAA Grounds 787

Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:59 am

As an American, I am simply disappointed on so many levels.

Boeing, like it or not as the country's biggest exporter by value, is one of the last good flag-bearers of what is left of American manufacturing. This grounding is not only a blow to Boeing but a blow to the entire country.

I feel sorry for the hard-working, average (non-management) Boeing employees and their families that have suffered through this terrible birth of a modern airliner.

And I feel sorry for those who bought into Boeing marketing and PR, who were patient, and have been building a strategy around this aircraft. May they get the discounts they deserve!

Even if everyone shorts Boeing and their stock price tumbles, and they risk bankruptcy, my guess is that Boeing would be bailed out by the taxpayer. So for that, I feel sorry for the rest of us who will pay for that. For paying what money we don't have.

But I don't feel sorry for any of the upper or middle managers at Boeing. They screwed up on so many levels. From rushing the wrong projects to failing to audit their external suppliers to just being terrible project managers. Fire them all!

[Edited 2013-01-16 17:00:51]
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23096
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: FAA Grounds 787

Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:01 am

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 35):
QR: grounded

As of the time of this posting, QR has not grounded the fleet to my knowledge. The LHR-DOH flight went tech on a hydraulic issue and is overnighting awaiting parts. All other scheduled QR 787 services took place today.

[Edited 2013-01-16 17:07:32]
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: FAA Grounds 787

Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:05 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 34):
Boeings stock took a nose dive today.

It's down a few bucks. On a stock which trades in the 70s, that's not a nose dive. That's a market correction based on news. Boeing isn't falling apart at the seams.
International Homo of Mystery
 
sankaps
Posts: 1692
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:51 am

RE: FAA Grounds 787

Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:06 am

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 35):
That leaves Ethiopian, LAN, LOT and Air India, but some of their routes are to/from the US. I understand those routes are not allowed either for the 787, are they? Will for instance LAN or AI will keep flying the 787 domestically or regionally?

The FAA announcement recommends that other countries follow suit and ground the aircraft as well.
 
seahawks7757
Posts: 157
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:54 pm

RE: FAA Grounds 787

Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:08 am

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 35):
- QR: grounded

They are not grounded as of yet.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 5450
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

RE: FAA Grounds 787

Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:08 am

I just hope we can stick to facts in these threads and eliminate the "I told you so" crap that some seem to live off of. I also hope that they have a pretty good idea of what's going on with these batteries and are focusing on a solution. If they are still trying to "figure it out" then it could be a while before they are back in the air. Every day they are grounded is (IMHO) exponentially worse so a quick answer definitely needed.

-Dave
-Dave
 
PHX787
Posts: 7877
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:46 pm

RE: FAA Grounds 787

Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:09 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 39):
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 34):
Boeings stock took a nose dive today.

It's down a few bucks. On a stock which trades in the 70s, that's not a nose dive. That's a market correction based on news. Boeing isn't falling apart at the seams.

Keep an eye on it the next few days.

I wanna know has Boeing even issued any press releases? I may have missed something. I've had a really busy day.
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
huxrules
Posts: 73
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:17 pm

RE: FAA Grounds 787

Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:09 am

What was the last type to be grounded by the FAA? The only one I can remember was the DC-10. Not good company to be in.
 
SCL767
Posts: 2812
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 6:25 am

RE: FAA Grounds 787

Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:10 am

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 35):
Will for instance LAN or AI will keep flying the 787 domestically or regionally?

The Chilean DGAC follows the directives issued by the FAA. LAN's 787s are deployed on two routes: SCL-LAX and SCL-EZE. LA603 (CC-BBC) is currently operating LAX-SCL. LAN will most likely deploy the B763s on the SCL-LAX route and the B763 and/or A343 will replace the 787 on the SCL-EZE route.
 
holzmann
Posts: 494
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:43 pm

RE: FAA Grounds 787

Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:10 am

Tinfoil Hat again:

Thales makes the APU. Thales is French. Wouldn't Thales gain if Airbus gains? Meaning, Boeing loses?
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: FAA Grounds 787

Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:10 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 43):
Keep an eye on it the next few days.

I'm sure everyone will. That still doesn't mean that today's loss was a "nose dive." Please keep the dramatics to a minimum.
International Homo of Mystery
 
seahawks7757
Posts: 157
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:54 pm

RE: FAA Grounds 787

Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:11 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 43):
I wanna know has Boeing even issued any press releases? I may have missed something. I've had a really busy day.

Yes-
http://boeing.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=2563
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23096
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: FAA Grounds 787

Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:13 am

Quoting holzmann (Reply 46):
Thales makes the APU. Thales is French. Wouldn't Thales gain if Airbus gains? Meaning, Boeing loses?

Thales makes parts for Airbus planes, as well.
 
rfields5421
Posts: 5566
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:45 am

RE: FAA Grounds 787

Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:14 am

Quoting sankaps (Reply 40):


Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 35):That leaves Ethiopian, LAN, LOT and Air India, but some of their routes are to/from the US. I understand those routes are not allowed either for the 787, are they? Will for instance LAN or AI will keep flying the 787 domestically or regionally?

The FAA announcement recommends that other countries follow suit and ground the aircraft as well.

Other countries / airlines will almost always follow the FAA lead on a US manufactured aircraft.

I would expect EU authorities to also order the grounding of any 787 registeredy in their nations or from flying in their airspace.

It may take 24 or so hours for airlines around the world to finish current flights - but the aircraft will be on the ground soon.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 18997
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: FAA Grounds 787

Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:14 am

Quoting huxrules (Reply 44):
What was the last type to be grounded by the FAA? The only one I can remember was the DC-10. Not good company to be in.

The DC-10 grounding in 1979 (which I believe lasted 37 days) was determined to have been unnecessary. The cause of the AA crash at ORD that prompted the grounding was determined to be faulty AA maintenance procedures that damaged the engine pylon.
 
Bureaucromancer
Posts: 113
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:17 am

RE: FAA Grounds 787

Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:16 am

Quoting CM (Reply 36):
It is common when this type of action is taken for the FAA to inform the world the AD is coming (which has been done), then to wait for a period before issuing the AD. This affords operators an opportunity to position the airplanes and make accommodations for the missing aircraft in their flight schedule.

And is seriously preferable to the chaos that came out of the DC-10 grounding being immediate. IRC there was at least one really close near miss as a direct result of turning around aircraft mid Atlantic at short notice near their fuel limits that time around.
 
todaReisinger
Posts: 902
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2001 4:19 am

RE: FAA Grounds 787

Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:16 am

Quoting holzmann (Reply 37):
But I don't feel sorry for any of the upper or middle managers at Boeing. They screwed up on so many levels. From rushing the wrong projects to failing to audit their external suppliers to just being terrible project managers. Fire them all!

Sadly, it is very well said.

It is truly frightening to see how a GREAT company can be so miserably managed. I hope the 787 project will not become a university study subject on "How one bad project management can kill a giant".......
I bitterly miss the livery that should never have been changed (repetition...)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 767333ER, admanager, Aircellist, alggag, Baidu [Spider], Bing [Bot], Boeing778X, BreninTW, FLJ, intotheair, itisi, jeffh747, jmmadrid, Lindegaard, mical, mmo, QuarkFly, SCQ83, trex8, WDHFlyBoy, YYJTurk and 285 guests