LAXintl
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Delta Applies For FLL-MEX Service

Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:09 pm

Delta Air Lines today applied with the DOT for authority to operate between Ft. Lauderdale and Mexico City.

Delta states if plans to offer daily service on the route commencing July 2013 utilizing 160-seat Boeing 737 aircraft.
However DL also request the flexibility depending on market demand to operate the service on a seasonal basis.


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MAH4546
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RE: Delta Applies For FLL-MEX Service

Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:20 pm

How long before JetBlue and Spirit apply to make it a competition?
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AR385
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RE: Delta Applies For FLL-MEX Service

Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:42 pm

Didn´t AM served this route for a while? If I´m right, why did they stop?
 
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adamh8297
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RE: Delta Applies For FLL-MEX Service

Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:08 am

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
However DL also request the flexibility depending on market demand to operate the service on a seasonal basis.

What would the high season be for South Florida-MEX?
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RE: Delta Applies For FLL-MEX Service

Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:41 am

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 3):
Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
However DL also request the flexibility depending on market demand to operate the service on a seasonal basis.

What would the high season be for South Florida-MEX?

It's a consistently busy market, around 600 PDEW.

I guess high would be July/August and December-April, if anything.
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G500
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RE: Delta Applies For FLL-MEX Service

Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:48 am

It always surprises how little int'l service FLL gets (and yes I'm aware MIA is near by)
 
shadez
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RE: Delta Applies For FLL-MEX Service

Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:30 am

What's Delta's rationale behind launching this route? Why will they fair better than AM did? Will this go the way of their FLL-SDQ route?
 
SurfandSnow
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RE: Delta Applies For FLL-MEX Service

Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:38 am

FLL: DL has been busy slashing service as the LCCs have been adding flights during recent years. This would certainly be the first new route added from FLL in a long time. Why would they do this now, when they have a weaker presence than ever before? Seems like mission better suited for AM...

MEX: DL has, as with most other Mexican markets both VFR and leisure, tried just about everything they can think of in the past 5 years or so. The only stuff that works? The established routes to strong hubs at ATL, JFK, and DTW. I don't see how FLL would fare any differently from the likes of SLC, MEM, MSP, MCO...

FLL-MEX is probably a viable route, but I would expect a Mexican carrier like AM, Y4, or 4O to do it, or perhaps an American LCC - NK has opted to serve Mexico City via TLC, but there is B6 and even FL/WN...
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flymia
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RE: Delta Applies For FLL-MEX Service

Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:54 am

A little surprised they picked FLL over MIA. When is the last time they expanded at FLL? At the same time it will be a bit less competition at FLL obviously.
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Mexicana757
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RE: Delta Applies For FLL-MEX Service

Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:03 am

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 1):
How long before JetBlue and Spirit apply to make it a competition?

I dont believe we will see Spirit applying, they're already flying FLL-TLC. Jetblue, WN/ FL may react or maybe Volaris will finally decide to launch the route.
 
njdevilsin03
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RE: Delta Applies For FLL-MEX Service

Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:05 am

Volaris sounds like a great addition for FLL, surprised it hasn't happened yet.
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zippyjet
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RE: Delta Applies For FLL-MEX Service

Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:05 am

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 7):

And, we'd jump right in and try it. (Once WN gets the International Certificate) then let the competiton in earnest begin.
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questions
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RE: Delta Applies For FLL-MEX Service

Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:09 am

Could DL have done better with FLL-LHR vs MIA-LHR?
 
flymia
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RE: Delta Applies For FLL-MEX Service

Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:33 am

Quoting questions (Reply 12):

The slot was for MIA so I don't think they had a choice. As for doing better or not ehh probably not. For a flight like that the customer base is pretty much the same. Maybe they could get some traffic that would rather go PBI-ATL-LHR or something instead of driving to MIA. Since no national carrier from the states or Europe has tried FLL-Europe there has to be something up with the market. Maybe it would just be difficult to compete with the airlines at MIA.
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SCQ83
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RE: Delta Applies For FLL-MEX Service

Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:18 am

Quoting g500 (Reply 5):
It always surprises how little int'l service FLL gets (and yes I'm aware MIA is near by)
Quoting flymia (Reply 13):
Since no national carrier from the states or Europe has tried FLL-Europe there has to be something up with the market.


I am not surprised at all. Almost nobody in Europe knows what or where Fort Lauderdale is and obviously everyone knows about Miami. Not much different in Latin America. Maybe for Port Everglades... but it is not a big deal to drive from there to MIA anyway... FLL is a huge US/Canada destination, but it is not internationally known.

I reckon the only way to market it for Europe would be calling it Miami-North "a la Ryanair". Even Spirit calls it "Miami, FL Area - Fort Lauderdale, FL (FLL)".
 
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airportugal310
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RE: Delta Applies For FLL-MEX Service

Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:37 am

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 14):

Disagree. Many Europeans own property in Boca Raton & Palm Beach, which if landing in Miami, you have pass Ft Lauderdale on 95 to get to Boca. The amount of wealth up that way is astounding. On a recent boat trip I took up the Intercoastal, I counted at least 5-6 waterfront homes with Norwegian and Swedish flags out front.

Indeed, Lynn University attracts PLENTY of international students to boot. I've seen it firsthand.

Polo, tennis, golf...I could go on for a while

The European airlines go to Miami because they have more to gain by going there with regards to feed.
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flymia
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RE: Delta Applies For FLL-MEX Service

Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:50 am

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 14):

So if FLL was called Miami/Ft. Lauderdale airport it would have a better chance for European service? FLL is 20 miles north of MIA. Many airports across the world which are the cities main international gateways are farther than that from the city center like IAD. I think MIA just has more to offer. FLL does rank in the top 20 in International passengers in the U.S. just weak on Europe. Condor could not make it work either.
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shadez
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RE: Delta Applies For FLL-MEX Service

Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:00 pm

Quoting flymia (Reply 16):
Condor could not make it work either.

Condor will increase to 4x weekly this summer.
 
PVD757
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RE: Delta Applies For FLL-MEX Service

Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:01 pm

Didn't NK have rights on this route a few years back? There was a flurry of Florida-Mexico applications when they changed the limits to 2 Mexico + 2 US flag carriers in the larger US-Mexico markets a few years ago.
 
tommy767
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RE: Delta Applies For FLL-MEX Service

Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:10 pm

Quoting questions (Reply 12):
ve done better with FLL-LHR vs MIA-LHR?

Doubt it. The market is just not there for them. They are better off flying them through ATL.
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Josh32121
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RE: Delta Applies For FLL-MEX Service

Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:11 pm

Some airlines (including DL, I think) used to list FLL flights under "Miami" with an airport identifier "F" for FLL and "M" for MIA similiar to listing LGA, JFK, and EWR flights together under "New York."

One issue with offering more international service from FLL besides the market economics is the fact that only T4 has FIS, and I believe it's pretty packed. DL's terminal at FLL does not have FIS, so I assume this MEX flight or any other would have to arrive at T4 and then be towed back to T2 for later departure.
 
Sligo
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RE: Delta Applies For FLL-MEX Service

Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:16 pm

Is there any thread out there listing DL's off hub/focus city flying that is within North America?
 
Bobloblaw
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RE: Delta Applies For FLL-MEX Service

Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:21 pm

Quoting shadez (Reply 6):
What's Delta's rationale behind launching this route?

No Kidding????? What is the point of this?? It adds nothing to Delta's overall franchise as a company.

Quoting flymia (Reply 8):
A little surprised they picked FLL over MIA. When is the last time they expanded at FLL?

Neither make sense and MIA makes even less sense

Quoting questions (Reply 12):
Could DL have done better with FLL-LHR vs MIA-LHR?

The award was for a market served by both AA and BA where no other carrier had service. Their choice was MIA or DFW.
 
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RE: Delta Applies For FLL-MEX Service

Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:34 pm

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 15):

The European airlines go to Miami because they have more to gain by going there with regards to feed.

They go to MIA because that's where the facilities and runways are big enough to consistently handle the traffic; there's not much feed to be had beyond MIA, even for oneworld carriers.
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yellowtail
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RE: Delta Applies For FLL-MEX Service

Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:11 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 23):
there's not much feed to be had beyond MIA, even for oneworld carriers.

You are kidding right?

AA feeds hoards of pax of its Caribbean and Central American flight on to its (and other OW carriers) LHR, MAD etc.

A few months ago I did LHR-MIA and standing at the luggage carosel and I saw bags tagged for onward travel to GCM, POS, MCO, LAX (yes can you believe that), LIM, MGA, TGU, SJO, MBJ, VVI, EYW, NAS and PAP....thats when I got my bag as I was going on to BZE.

In two weeks I am doing BZE-MIA-CTG....on a single ticket AA/AV (Y ticket: US$1400).....Yes, MIA has lots of O&D, but it also serves a very lucrative connecting market.
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RE: Delta Applies For FLL-MEX Service

Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:20 pm

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 24):
You are kidding right?

Nope, of course AA feeds traffic but international-international connections present a few more obstacles than domestic-international or domestic-domestic, so while MIA certainly connects passengers, it doesn't do so on the same level as DFW. And non oneworld airlines are certainly not flying to MIA for connections. I'd bet that BA's DFW flight has a much higher proportion of beyond DFW passengers than MIA.
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yellowtail
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RE: Delta Applies For FLL-MEX Service

Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:11 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 25):
I'd bet that BA's DFW flight has a much higher proportion of beyond DFW passengers than MIA.

Yes, but to say the MIA feed is

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 23):
not much

is just not accurate.
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SCQ83
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RE: Delta Applies For FLL-MEX Service

Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:34 pm

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 15):
Disagree. Many Europeans own property in Boca Raton & Palm Beach, which if landing in Miami, you have pass Ft Lauderdale on 95 to get to Boca. The amount of wealth up that way is astounding. On a recent boat trip I took up the Intercoastal, I counted at least 5-6 waterfront homes with Norwegian and Swedish flags out front.


I am not saying there are no Europeans in those areas (and certainly the likes of Palm Beach or Boca Raton are more appealing and known than Ft Lauderdale in Europe), as well in other areas of Florida. But the two massive areas for tourism from Europe and Latin America in Florida are Miami and Orlando. Fort Lauderdale and Palm Beach County are massive areas for tourists from the US and Canada but not from Europe.

The issue here is that FLL itself is a "massive" domestic beach destination. Massive beach destinations in a country/continent are often massive mainly because how convenient/easy/cheap are to get to are... if you discount that factor (i.e. a long haul flight, passport, international insureance), it does not make any sense. You are not flying from Europe to be in an sterile beach in Florida (I mean, I have been to FLL and it is not anything you could not find in many places in one or other way in Europe), the same way that Americans are not flying to Europe to go to the beach in Benidorm or Antalya. Of course Palm Beach is another story, but that is like suggesting that some high-end tourists from the US vacationing in Ibiza, Sardinia or the Croatian coast would be enough to sustain a direct flight to the US from those places.

If tourism from Europe would be so significant in FLL, they could easily duplicate services to MIA and FLL like they do in JFK/EWR. But they don't, only Condor flies FRA-FLL.

Driving from Palm Beach to MIA VS FLL is just half an hour more and MIA has plenty of options to connect to get anywhere. And when you have a 7-8 hour flight ahead (instead of a 2-3 hour domestic flight), those 30 minutes are not a big deal.

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 15):
Indeed, Lynn University attracts PLENTY of international students to boot. I've seen it firsthand.


You gotta be kidding. A university that probably no one knows outside of Palm Beach County (for other thing that being a party place). According to Lynn University website:

http://www.lynn.edu/about-lynn/news-...sity2019s-enrollment-numbers-swell

():
The previous high for international students was 126 in 2005.
Top nations represented in order by citizenship are Colombia, Saudi Arabia, China, Mexico, Italy, Canada, Turkey, United Kingdom, Ecuador and Spain.


So even if the numbers have exploded since the very last previous high for international students, I would be interested to know how those (probably a few dozens of Europeans) students would help to any kind of commercial service.

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 15):
The European airlines go to Miami because they have more to gain by going there with regards to feed.


European airlines go to Miami because most Europeans want to go to Miami, not to Fort Lauderdale. Of course feed does not hurt either.
 
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RE: Delta Applies For FLL-MEX Service

Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:57 am

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 1):
How long before JetBlue and Spirit apply to make it a competition?

It would be interesting to see JetBlue on the route, since they seem to have managed to get Spirit to reduce FLL-KIN and FLL-NAS to seasonal routes.

Quoting Josh32121 (Reply 20):
One issue with offering more international service from FLL besides the market economics is the fact that only T4 has FIS, and I believe it's pretty packed. DL's terminal at FLL does not have FIS, so I assume this MEX flight or any other would have to arrive at T4 and then be towed back to T2 for later departure.

Terminal 4 is madhouse around 10:30 AM when Spirit's Latin American and Caribbean flights are departing. The terminal is either at or overcapacity and relief is long overdue. Condor currently arrives at Terminal 4 and then tows their 767 to Terminal 2 for departure.
 
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airportugal310
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RE: Delta Applies For FLL-MEX Service

Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:04 am

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 27):

I can't single out certain parts of your rebuttal since I on an iPad and it doesn't seem able to cope with selective copying on this site. But I'll say I agree with most of what you say. Disagree on a little but we are in the same ballpark. Good enough.

That being said, ont forget one the presidential debates was held at Lynn. The 3rd maybe? Someone knows where it is  
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yellowtail
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RE: Delta Applies For FLL-MEX Service

Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:25 pm

What are the odds that DL is testing a SoFLa market in the hopes of setting up a focus city at MIA or FLL. We know that they long at AA with their great O&D yields and drool.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
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STT757
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RE: Delta Applies For FLL-MEX Service

Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:37 pm

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 1):
How long before JetBlue and Spirit apply to make it a competition?


With AA already at MIA and DL at FLL doesn't that make it two US carriers in the market to MEX? Are FLL/MIA considered the same market as EWR/JFK? Only two US carriers can serve MEX from a single market.

At LAX it's AS and UA, from NY it's UA at EWR and DL at JFK. From MIA it used to be EA and PA, then AA and UA. Right now it's just AA, by DL launching FLL-MEX they might have blocked any other carriers from entering the market.
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Bobloblaw
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RE: Delta Applies For FLL-MEX Service

Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:10 pm

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 30):
What are the odds that DL is testing a SoFLa market in the hopes of setting up a focus city at MIA or FLL. We know that they long at AA with their great O&D yields and drool.

Well they failed bitterly with their LHR and intra-Florida flights from MIA. They can drool all they want, Invalids drool also.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Delta Applies For FLL-MEX Service

Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:06 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 31):
With AA already at MIA and DL at FLL doesn't that make it two US carriers in the market to MEX? Are FLL/MIA considered the same market as EWR/JFK? Only two US carriers can serve MEX from a single market.

DOT does not consider MIA/FLL as one. Back when CUN was still 2 carriers only, there was US, NK and AA.
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Sligo
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RE: Delta Applies For FLL-MEX Service

Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:32 pm

Where does DL-owned metal fly within North America that is not to/from BOS/LGA/JFK/DCA/ATL/SLC/MSP/DTW/LAX/MCO/CUN/MEM/CVG? Can they be counted on a hand or two?
 
Viscount724
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RE: Delta Applies For FLL-MEX Service

Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:55 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Delta Air Lines today applied with the DOT for authority to operate between Ft. Lauderdale and Mexico City.

Why isn't US-Mexico Open Skies? Seems long overdue for two such close neighbors. Obviously it's not the US that's opposed to it considering their 100 or more other Open Skies agreements worldwide, many involving markets far smaller than US-Mexico.

Seems ironic considering the 1994 North American Free Trade Agreement. I realize that agreement excluded air transportation, but Canada and the US reached an open skies agreement in 1995 which has been very beneficial to both US and Canadian carriers. Why not Mexico with 3 times Canada's population?
 
santi319
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RE: Delta Applies For FLL-MEX Service

Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:00 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 35):
Why isn't US-Mexico Open Skies? Seems long overdue for two such close neighbors. Obviously it's not the US that's opposed to it considering their 100 or more other Open Skies agreements worldwide, many involving markets far smaller than US-Mexico.

Because of bureaucracy, Mexico is a very corrupt country, sad really....
 
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Polot
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RE: Delta Applies For FLL-MEX Service

Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:11 pm

Quoting santi319 (Reply 36):
Because of bureaucracy, Mexico is a very corrupt country, sad really....

I doubt it is because of corruption, more likely for protectionist reasons. The American airlines probably would have crushed the Mexican ones, who had traditionally been financially weak.
 
santi319
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RE: Delta Applies For FLL-MEX Service

Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:47 pm

Quoting Polot (Reply 37):
The American airlines probably would have crushed the Mexican ones, who had traditionally been financially weak.

Exactly, because they are run by bureaucrats....
 
yellowtail
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RE: Delta Applies For FLL-MEX Service

Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:36 am

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 32):
Well they failed bitterly with their LHR and intra-Florida flights from MIA.

THat is far different that MIA-LatAm/Caribbean
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
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adamh8297
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RE: Delta Applies For FLL-MEX Service

Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:22 pm

Quoting Sligo (Reply 34):

Where does DL-owned metal fly within North America that is not to/from BOS/LGA/JFK/DCA/ATL/SLC/MSP/DTW/LAX/MCO/CUN/MEM/CVG? Can they be counted on a hand or two?

Are you looking at mainline aircraft only. If so you have: HNL-SFO/SEA

Plus RDU-TPA/BDL/BWI (done by Pinnacle/Express Jet)
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AM, BA, B6, CO, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WN
 
HVNandrew
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RE: Delta Applies For FLL-MEX Service

Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:11 pm

Quoting Sligo (Reply 34):

Where does DL-owned metal fly within North America that is not to/from BOS/LGA/JFK/DCA/ATL/SLC/MSP/DTW/LAX/MCO/CUN/MEM/CVG? Can they be counted on a hand or two?

For mainline, probably not much other than the HNL flights mentioned above.

But DL owns a lot of their Connection metal, and there's still quite a few P2P routes over at Connection - RDU routes, FLL-TLH, and MCI routes come to mind. While much more hub-spoke focused than in the past, DL through its Connection carriers still probably has the most extensive P2P network of any US legacy.

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