justinlee
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Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:08 pm

CA To Start 4xweekly PEK-GVA On May 7

Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:44 am

According to the Air China online booking system, CA will start PEK-GVA on May 7th, 2013 using Airbus 330-200. Currently, PEK has 9xweekly to Swiss: daily by LX to ZRH and 2xweekly to ZRH by HU. Very interesting to know whether CA will codeshare with LX on this route.

CA 861/2: 2,4,6,7
PEK-GVA 13:30-18:25
GVA-PEK 20:25-12:55+1

 
airmale
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RE: CA To Start 4xweekly PEK-GVA On May 7

Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:49 am

GVA-PEK? That is surprising.... Star Alliance Partner Swiss only has a limited network in GVA to feed this flight. I wish them luck....
.....up there with the best!
 
justinlee
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RE: CA To Start 4xweekly PEK-GVA On May 7

Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:26 am

Quoting AirMale (Reply 1):
GVA-PEK? That is surprising.... Star Alliance Partner Swiss only has a limited network in GVA to feed this flight. I wish them luck....

Yeah...I agree and I suspect the O&D flow is very limited and low yield.
 
rutankrd
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RE: CA To Start 4xweekly PEK-GVA On May 7

Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:49 pm

Quoting justinlee (Reply 2):
Yeah...I agree and I suspect the O&D flow is very limited and low yield.

Why Geneva is one of the worlds leading finance centres,- (This is where the money comes from to prop up your export drive !), has major pharmaceutical companies, IT companies and home of some of the worlds political and international trading organisations and many NGO bodies.

Its one of the wealthiest cities on the planet !

Has the Alps (High yield tourists only !) on the doorstep.

Traffic Geneva is going to be far from low yield.

As for the Hub its on the Asia side.

Added Geneva serves a regional and cross border area with France and makes an excellent cargo hub in addition to the Self loading freight cabin.

As a destination It will serve Air China well
 
Viscount724
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RE: CA To Start 4xweekly PEK-GVA On May 7

Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:24 pm

Quoting justinlee (Reply 2):
Quoting AirMale (Reply 1):
GVA-PEK? That is surprising.... Star Alliance Partner Swiss only has a limited network in GVA to feed this flight. I wish them luck....

Yeah...I agree and I suspect the O&D flow is very limited and low yield.

Strongly disagree. Rutankrd in Reply 3 covers it well. There are also many Chinese staff working for the numerous UN and other international organzations based in GVA (the 2nd largest United Nations site after NYC).

Based on the number of Chinese tourists I see in GVA and surrounding area (they seem to have largely supplanted the Japanese), CA should do well.

If I recall some recent visitor statistics correctly, Chinese visitors to Switzerland are close to the top in the amount of money they spend per day. Expensive Swiss watches are especially popular purchases. Many upscale GVA jewellery stores have Chinese-speaking staff for that reason. A recent article said some Chinese prefer to fly to Switzerland to by their Rolex etc. since they know they're getting the real thing rather than a possible fake.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: CA To Start 4xweekly PEK-GVA On May 7

Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:36 am

GVA - PEK O&D PDEW is rather tiny at mere 25. Add in SHA and you get another 17.

ZRH is the much stronger market - with 34 to PEK and 79 to SHA.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
runway23
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RE: CA To Start 4xweekly PEK-GVA On May 7

Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:50 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 5):
GVA - PEK O&D PDEW is rather tiny at mere 25. Add in SHA and you get another 17.

I'm not sure where your figures are from, but the one's I have show an O&D on PEK-GVA of 110 pax per day, of which 25% high yield.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: CA To Start 4xweekly PEK-GVA On May 7

Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:11 am

Its MIDT 12-month dump through July 2012.

LH is the market leader with 23% of the traffic, followed by AF.

For SHA, market leader is AF with 19% followed by LH and LX.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Viscount724
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RE: CA To Start 4xweekly PEK-GVA On May 7

Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:12 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 5):
GVA - PEK O&D PDEW is rather tiny at mere 25. Add in SHA and you get another 17.

ZRH is the much stronger market - with 34 to PEK and 79 to SHA.

Not sure how meaningful those numbers are. Many Asian visitors to Europe are visiting several cities during the trip and are flying between them. For example, on an itinerary such as PEK-ZRH-GVA-AMS-LON-PEK with stopovers at all points, what's the O&D?

[Edited 2013-01-19 17:45:16]
 
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LAXintl
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RE: CA To Start 4xweekly PEK-GVA On May 7

Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:25 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 8):
what's the O&D?

IATA has clear guidance.

First you need to know where there was a break (if any) in the journey.

But depending on what your answer is there is guidance of how multiple legs are counted for the stats.

For example if the passenger spent time in each city, then the two O&D legs that would be counted for PEK are PEK-ZRH and LON-PEK.

Really not too complex.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Viscount724
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RE: CA To Start 4xweekly PEK-GVA On May 7

Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:56 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 8):
what's the O&D?

IATA has clear guidance.

First you need to know where there was a break (if any) in the journey.

But depending on what your answer is there is guidance of how multiple legs are counted for the stats.

For example if the passenger spent time in each city, then the two O&D legs that would be counted for PEK are PEK-ZRH and LON-PEK.

Really not too complex.

But still not sure how meaningful the IATA formula is when looking at market demand when planning a new route. Many passengers also travel by train or bus between cities who might very well fly if there was nonstop service. Using the PEK-GVA route as an example, it may be more relevant than looking at PEK-ZRH O&D to look at hotel nights spent withiin the GVA catchment area by Chinese visitors. Many of those visitors may have used half a dozen other routings to get to Europe (via FRA/CDG/MUC/AMS etc.) I was on a GVA-AMS KL flight last month and would estimate that about 1/3 of the passengers were part of a Chinese tour group.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: CA To Start 4xweekly PEK-GVA On May 7

Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:44 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 10):
But still not sure how meaningful the IATA formula is when looking at market demand when planning a new route.

Thats life, but you go with the data available.

There will always be people that take circuitous routing's, or build their own itineraries across multiple airlines especially in todays world of LCCs.
Existing O&D data is still a reference point and shows an underlying market or not, in this case those that have purchase tickets either one way or RT between PEK and GVA.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California

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