LGWGate49
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Garuda To Fly To London Nonstop Oct13?

Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:37 am

Hadn't seen this posted anywhere, and have only found one reference online but thought it worth mentioning. Supposedly GA will start Jakarta to London in October on a 77W:

http://www.alternativeairlines.com/g...sia-announces-its-return-to-london

I believe this would be the longest non-stop out of London. If it does happen it will be interesting to see if they get slots at LHR, or would return back to LGW.

FYI Alternative Airlines is part of Flight Directors, GA's GSA in the UK.
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FlyingHollander
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RE: Garuda To Fly To London Nonstop Oct13?

Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:43 pm

I wonder if this will happen before or after CGK-AMS becomes nonstop.
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Sethor
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RE: Garuda To Fly To London Nonstop Oct13?

Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:02 pm

Quote:
The new aircraft will be configured with 184 Economy Class seats, 42 flat-bed Business Class seats and 8 luxurious First Class demi-cabins, offering the highest standards of comfort, service and privacy.

Wow just 234 seats on a 77W, SQ have a 228Y/42C/8F config on 77W's.
 
fcogafa
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RE: Garuda To Fly To London Nonstop Oct13?

Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:15 pm

Quoting FlyingHollander (Reply 1):
Wow just 234 seats on a 77W, SQ have a 228Y/42C/8F config on 77W's.

ANA use a similar 'small' number of seats on their B777s to LHR
 
speedmarque
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RE: Garuda To Fly To London Nonstop Oct13?

Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:24 pm

Expect BA to announce the competition on the route very soon.
 
MEA-707
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RE: Garuda To Fly To London Nonstop Oct13?

Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:35 pm

But is there such an enormous UK-Indonesia market? I can imagine a nonstop AMS-CGK would be more popular.
Their passenger numbers/revenues on the current CGK-UAE-AMS flights were a bit disappointing but I am sure they can grab a bigger market share when they start to offer it nonstop, not even KLM flies it nonstop. Code sharing and so when they become a full Skyteam member will also help. I know many (older and business) people who travel a lot between the Netherlands and Indonesia and complain there is no nonstop option.
On the other hand I am amazed they have so few seats on their 77W's, as Indonesia is still for 80% a VFR/holiday market unlike Japan. If I were them I'd cram in 400 seats in the back behind a nice First/Business section.
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mandala499
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RE: Garuda To Fly To London Nonstop Oct13?

Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:21 pm

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 5):
But is there such an enormous UK-Indonesia market? I can imagine a nonstop AMS-CGK would be more popular.

I reckon CGK-AMS direct will come first...
The surprising part for me is that this announcement comes ahead of CGK-FRA, traditionally the 2nd largest market after AMS... But in december the CEO did say that there's roughly about 5000 pax flying between Jakarta and London on a given day (although I suspect that's between Indonesia and UK as O&D).

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 5):
On the other hand I am amazed they have so few seats on their 77W's, as Indonesia is still for 80% a VFR/holiday market unlike Japan. If I were them I'd cram in 400 seats in the back behind a nice First/Business section.

Well, NL is more of a VFR market for us too. FRA has traditionally been the business market... but I dunno the exact proportions. If it's a VFR market with few pax up in front, better off sending the 330 still...   

Am sure we're missing something...
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fcogafa
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RE: Garuda To Fly To London Nonstop Oct13?

Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:52 pm

Garuda previously operated to LGW with B747's, DC-10s or MD-11s so there must be a market, although these days Emirates have probably got a good slice of it.
 
mandala499
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RE: Garuda To Fly To London Nonstop Oct13?

Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:20 pm

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 7):
Garuda previously operated to LGW with B747's, DC-10s or MD-11s so there must be a market,

The last time they flew to LGW, it was a 2x weekly LGW-BKK-DPS... definitely low yield...
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LAXintl
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RE: Garuda To Fly To London Nonstop Oct13?

Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:28 pm

For an idea, here are some traffic figures -

Average daily one-way passengers between Jakarta and European points.

AMS - 181
LON - 84
PAR - 76
FRA - 59
MIL - 27
ROM - 26
ZUR - 22
BRU - 18
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kjellverschuren
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RE: Garuda To Fly To London Nonstop Oct13?

Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:39 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9):

Doesn't this indicate that one daily flight between Amsterdam and Jakarta should be enough?
The passengers who want to go to e.g. London can use the KLM network?

Maybe, if Garuda succeeds in bringing other Indonesian passengers to Jakarta and then to Amsterdam, instead of e.g. trough Denpasar or Singapore/Kuala Lumpur there might be place for another daily flight to e.g. London or as indicated above, Frankfurt.

cheers,
 
SCQ83
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RE: Garuda To Fly To London Nonstop Oct13?

Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:08 pm

I don't know very much about wealthy Indonesians' lifestyles... but I wouldn't be surprised London is a kind of playground for them (like for rich Malays or Singaporeans), so that generates passengers willing to pay (way) more. Just googling, this article seems to point in that direction http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2...onesians-buy-property-london.html. Indonesia is kind of a new "BRIC" so those figures should rise even more.

Also London is a wealthier market than Amsterdam. If marketing themselves properly, they can always play with Garuda as an alternative gateway to Indonesia (Denpasar and so on) and SE Asia. Or even to take their part of the pie in the kangaroo route. Garuda also is probably quite an unknown airline in the UK (compared to the Netherlands), so in this case it might play in their favor. I am sure many Dutch still think of Garuda as a dangerous airline that was banned in the EU until very recently.

Maybe AMS generates more PAX but that's more VFR orientated (due to the Indonesian diaspora there), and business from the Netherlands would stick to KLM anyway. KLM does also have a stop-over, so comparatively Garuda does not have any disadvantage in that sense face to KLM.
 
LJ
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RE: Garuda To Fly To London Nonstop Oct13?

Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:05 pm

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 5):
Their passenger numbers/revenues on the current CGK-UAE-AMS flights were a bit disappointing but I am sure they can grab a bigger market share when they start to offer it nonstop, not even KLM flies it nonstop.

Both KL and GA indicated they want to make AMS-CGK nonstop. However, two things don't encourage these plans. First, GA started to cooperate with EY, which means they want to serve AUH as well (and stopping on its way to AMS saves them an aircraft). Second, I don't think KLM has enough aircrafts to make AMS-CGK nonstop or they can deploy their 777s more profitable elswhere. If KL would make CGK nonstop, then they must either axe KUL (which KL doesn't want), make KUL daily nonstop or find another tag for KUL. However, the latter two options will mean extra 777 capacity must be available, which they don't have at the moment.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 11):
I am sure many Dutch still think of Garuda as a dangerous airline that was banned in the EU until very recently.

I doubt this is the case. If so, why would the Dutch worry more than the British or Germans?
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Garuda To Fly To London Nonstop Oct13?

Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:13 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9):
Average daily one-way passengers between Jakarta and European points.

AMS - 181
LON - 84
PAR - 76
FRA - 59

I've often wondered if GA or even DL would try a CGK-LAX and are the numbers there.
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adamh8297
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RE: Garuda To Fly To London Nonstop Oct13?

Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:43 pm

Quoting kjellverschuren (Reply 10):
The passengers who want to go to e.g. London can use the KLM network?

For 1-stop options passengers could also use SQ's network.
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Viscount724
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RE: Garuda To Fly To London Nonstop Oct13?

Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:53 pm

Quoting Sethor (Reply 2):
Wow just 234 seats on a 77W, SQ have a 228Y/42C/8F config on 77W's.

NH's lowest-density 77W configuration has only 212 seats.
http://www.ana.co.jp/wws/japan/e/asw...mon/inflight/seatmap/b777_300er_1/
 
mandala499
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RE: Garuda To Fly To London Nonstop Oct13?

Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:08 am

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 11):
I am sure many Dutch still think of Garuda as a dangerous airline that was banned in the EU until very recently.

U'd find the aircraft has more Dutch passengers than Indonesian...

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9):
Average daily one-way passengers between Jakarta and European points.

So I wonder where did you get those numbers from? It's 500 daily pax only...
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6thfreedom
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RE: Garuda To Fly To London Nonstop Oct13?

Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:26 am

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 16):

So I wonder where did you get those numbers from? It's 500 daily pax only...

those figures are pretty impressive.
on top of that you can add, bali-Europe via CGK, other Indonesia via CGK, london-australia via CGK etc.
 
AFGMEL
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RE: Garuda To Fly To London Nonstop Oct13?

Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:40 am

I wonder what the connections for the Kangaroo route might be. If GA have lifted their game, they are an option I might use in J if their prices are decent.
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bthebest
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RE: Garuda To Fly To London Nonstop Oct13?

Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:39 am

Quoting AFGMEL (Reply 18):
I wonder what the connections for the Kangaroo route might be. If GA have lifted their game, they are an option I might use in J if their prices are decent.

I was thinking that as well, it depends if they can continue their product from this service through to PER/MEL/SYD
 
 
behramjee
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RE: Garuda To Fly To London Nonstop Oct13?

Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:39 am

GA has a decent hub established at CGK and shall aim to attract O&D bound to CGK and DPS in particular on board their LHR flights along with transit pax bound via CGK to SIN/KUL/Australia/AKL so I doubt it will be a problem filling the planes 80% year round on a B77W. The question will be at what yields???!!!

Also via LHR, they will get some interline traffic originating from other parts of the UK and Western Europe.
 
LJ
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RE: Garuda To Fly To London Nonstop Oct13?

Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:17 pm

Quoting behramjee (Reply 21):
Also via LHR, they will get some interline traffic originating from other parts of the UK and Western Europe.

However, for this kind of traffic AMS would be more suitable as GA has a codeshare partner and can offer more destinations.
 
babybus
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RE: Garuda To Fly To London Nonstop Oct13?

Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:44 pm

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 7):
Garuda previously operated to LGW with B747's, DC-10s or MD-11s so there must be a market, although these days Emirates have probably got a good slice of it.

Most of the passengers were bound for Australia. I've never heard anyone complain about the service onboard. Sounds like they were overfed all the way.

I'm hoping they'll operate out of Gatwick again.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
flyingalex
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RE: Garuda To Fly To London Nonstop Oct13?

Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:25 pm

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 13):

I've often wondered if GA or even DL would try a CGK-LAX and are the numbers there.

No idea about the numbers, but keep in mind that CGK-LAX is a little bit longer than SIN-LAX, which SQ have given up on after giving it a very extended try.

If either Garuda or Delta pick up the route, it will be a one-stopper via somewhere else.

Delta's current service is via DL codeshares on CI's TPE-CGK flights. And I believe Garuda also codeshares on CI's TPE-LAX and TPE-SFO flights. Once Garuda joins SkyTeam, I'd imagine greater cooperation between GA and DL, probably something involving DL's massive NRT operation.
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n729pa
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RE: Garuda To Fly To London Nonstop Oct13?

Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:45 am

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 5):
But is there such an enormous UK-Indonesia market?



It's worth adding that years ago GA were the cheap way to get to Australia, if you didn't mind stopping 4 times. Of course times are different now, with the Middle Eastern carriers around maybe that won't be a good thing for GA unless they can successfully market stopovers into the bargain. I know a lot of people do still like the stopover in the Far East, a stop over in Doha or Abu Dhabi doesn't have the same appeal but it won't appeal to Business travellers in any case. But how cheap are the Middle East carriers going to be or remain? With EK and QF tie up, EK can hardly pull the rug too much from under QF. In fact if you look at the two sets of fares, there often isn't that much between them. Anyway this thread is about GA, so it will be interesting to see how they get on, but it's good to have them back.