2008matt
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787 Dreamliner Private Jet?

Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:44 pm

Are there any 787 dreamliners as private jets on order now or in the near future, considering the 767 has a few, and its of a similar size?
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BMI727
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RE: 787 Dreamliner Private Jet?

Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:51 pm

Quoting 2008matt (Thread starter):
Are there any 787 dreamliners as private jets on order now or in the near future, considering the 767 has a few, and its of a similar size?

Yep. I think it's six for BBJ/VIP customers plus another two for PrivatAir.
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2008matt
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RE: 787 Dreamliner Private Jet?

Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:53 pm

Do you know when they are likely to be delivered, and if the privatair 787's will be based in GVA or elsewhere?
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BMI727
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RE: 787 Dreamliner Private Jet?

Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:55 pm

Quoting 2008matt (Reply 2):
Do you know when they are likely to be delivered,

Not sure, but there was speculation that some of the early airframes that have been cut open and improved more than Joan Rivers might end up as private jets, but I'm not sure if that's going anywhere or not. I'm pretty sure a couple VIPs ordered -9s, so those won't be delivered for a while yet.

Quoting 2008matt (Reply 2):
if the privatair 787's will be based in GVA or elsewhere?

I would assume so.
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Stitch
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RE: 787 Dreamliner Private Jet?

Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:00 pm

Quoting 2008matt (Thread starter):
Are there any 787 dreamliners as private jets on order now or in the near future...

There are currently six 787 VIP airframes on order. At one time the total was at least 16, however once the Global Financial Crisis hit, a number of them were subsequently cancelled.



Quoting 2008matt (Reply 2):
Do you know when they are likely to be delivered...

I don't believe their delivery dates have ever been made public.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 3):
Not sure, but there was speculation that some of the early airframes that have been cut open and improved more than Joan Rivers might end up as private jets, but I'm not sure if that's going anywhere or not.

Last I heard, Boeing still intends to deliver ZA004, ZA005 and ZA006 as 787 VIP airframes once their use as test frames is done.

[Edited 2013-01-20 09:01:02]
 
Norcal773
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RE: 787 Dreamliner Private Jet?

Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:30 pm

I saw a list on Twitter Yesterday that showed Boeing's BBJ Delivery schedule and prices and here is where the 787 BBJ stands:

787-8, 3rd quarter 2019- $200.006 Million list price, $80-150 Million VIP Interior Estimate.

787-9, 3rd quarter 2020- $233.158 Million list price, $80-150 Million VIP Interior Estimate.

I found the 748 availability very interesting though for someone who needs a BBJ quick because it'll be available in 9 months.

747-8, October 2013- $330.031 Million list price, $140-250 Million VIP Interior Estimate.
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KarelXWB
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RE: 787 Dreamliner Private Jet?

Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:40 pm

You mean this slide:

Quote:
Last I heard, Boeing still intends to deliver ZA004, ZA005 and ZA006 as 787 VIP airframes once their use as test frames is done.

That's what I heard too. ZA006 is undergoing change incorporation for a while now, it might be delivered this year (without the interior). ZA005 is still fly testing for Boeing so delivery won't happen until 2014 at least I guess.

[Edited 2013-01-20 09:40:58]
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Norcal773
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RE: 787 Dreamliner Private Jet?

Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:56 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 6):
You mean this slide:

A picture is worth 1000 words  
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777STL
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RE: 787 Dreamliner Private Jet?

Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:36 pm

What aircraft is a BBJ C?
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gigneil
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RE: 787 Dreamliner Private Jet?

Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:50 pm

BBJ C is basically a 737-700C.

It can be quick changed from pax to cargo service in about 8 hours, for carrying anything the discerning customer might need - racehorses, fine cars, Egyptian artifacts, you name it.

NS
 
akelley728
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RE: 787 Dreamliner Private Jet?

Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:04 pm

Quoting 777STL (Reply 8):
What aircraft is a BBJ C?


BBJ C is a variant of the BBJ featuring the "quick change" capabilities of the 737-700C. This allows the aircraft to be used for executive duty during one flight, and to be quickly reconfigured for cargo duty for the next flight.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_Business_Jet
 
2008matt
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RE: 787 Dreamliner Private Jet?

Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:48 pm

Is that roughly the same list price as commercial jets not including discounts
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gigneil
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RE: 787 Dreamliner Private Jet?

Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:55 pm

Its about the same yes.... the prices are fairly guarded and there are sooooo many options that its difficult to really pinpoint. But the range seems approximately right with the range for the same planes.

NS
 
4tet
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RE: 787 Dreamliner Private Jet?

Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:40 pm

I understand that with the 'List price' comes EVERYTHING needed for the aircraft to fly (airframe, engines, apu, cockpit, electronics, etc...) except the interior.

If so, 80M - 150M for the interior completion, it's so exaggerated! I understand that if you want everything with gold and diamonds can be much more, but for a regular completion with materials like leather and wood, I found it simply unacceptable!
 
panpan
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RE: 787 Dreamliner Private Jet?

Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:59 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 3):
early airframes that have been cut open and improved more than Joan Rivers

zing!
 
Viscount724
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RE: 787 Dreamliner Private Jet?

Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:23 pm

Quoting akelley728 (Reply 10):
Quoting 777STL (Reply 8):
What aircraft is a BBJ C?


BBJ C is a variant of the BBJ featuring the "quick change" capabilities of the 737-700C. This allows the aircraft to be used for executive duty during one flight, and to be quickly reconfigured for cargo duty for the next flight.

Comparable to the C-40A Clipper for the U.S. Navy, to replace their DC-9-30-based C-9Bs. They recently ordered 2 more.

Cargo door visible in second photo.


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AM
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RE: 787 Dreamliner Private Jet?

Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:25 pm

One of the VIP 787s is supposedly destined for the Mexican Air Force (FAM) for presidential flights.
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blueflyer
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RE: 787 Dreamliner Private Jet?

Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:30 pm

Quoting 4tet (Reply 13):
If so, 80M - 150M for the interior completion, it's so exaggerated!

Keep a few things in mind:
a) Every interior is pretty much unique. No one buys a VIP aircraft to have it looking like a carbon copy of their neighbor's. Someone has to design that interior from scratch.
b) Aircraft have unique shapes and requirements. Most of what goes in is custom-made, you can't go to Ikea to buy a sofa and fit it inside your plane.
c) Pretty much everything used for the interior has to be certified to higher standards than what you find in your house, from the electrical cables to prevent a spark inside the cabinet housing the tv to the carpet on the floor far more resistant to fire than a standard carpet. Try using non-certified material and your insurance carrier will terminate coverage.

[Edited 2013-01-20 15:32:09]
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2008matt
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RE: 787 Dreamliner Private Jet?

Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:40 am

Could the US government buy one to replace Air Force two, as that must be getting old now?
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mingocr83
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RE: 787 Dreamliner Private Jet?

Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:21 am

Quoting AM (Reply 16):

Well, it was confirmed on the first week of November. I was staying at the NH Hotel in MEX when I saw this article on the news paper. Seems it was a good deal made by Boeing to the Mexican Government after AMX made their order for the 787...
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mingocr83
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RE: 787 Dreamliner Private Jet?

Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:24 am

Quoting 2008matt (Reply 18):

It was rumored that a 77L BBJ could be the solution...
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2008matt
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RE: 787 Dreamliner Private Jet?

Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:40 am

Quoting mingocr83 (Reply 20):

I see, so upsizing then, also what will replace Air Force one when that retires?
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AeroWesty
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RE: 787 Dreamliner Private Jet?

Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:47 am

Quoting 2008matt (Reply 21):
I see, so upsizing then, also what will replace Air Force one when that retires?

I don't see why they would go from a 757-based jet to one the size of the 77L. There are also 6 C-32s, 4 in the executive configuration, so there isn't just one which is flown as Air Force Two for the Vice-President.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_C-32
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Pellegrine
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RE: 787 Dreamliner Private Jet?

Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:03 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 4):
Last I heard, Boeing still intends to deliver ZA004, ZA005 and ZA006 as 787 VIP airframes once their use as test frames is done.

I wouldn't even want those if Boeing offered to sell one to me for $30M.
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skywaymanaz
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RE: 787 Dreamliner Private Jet?

Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:15 am

Quoting 2008matt (Reply 21):
what will replace Air Force one when that retires?

A version of the 777 and 787 have been mentioned but I expect it will be a few 747-8's. The amount of press that accompanies the President and flies with him on Air Force One justifies this. When they flew the 707 variant the travel office at the White House had to charter another aircraft on most Presidential events to carry the press. They'd film Air Force One takeoff then scramble on to the press plane to race ahead and then film Air Force One land. It was kind of silly and today you usually only see this happen for a big prestige international trip as the number of reporters increases beyond what the 747 can carry. I expect something to be announced on this after the next Presidential election.
 
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RE: 787 Dreamliner Private Jet?

Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:40 am

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 23):
I wouldn't even want those if Boeing offered to sell one to me for $30M.

If you've got the $30m... give it to me, I'll put it to good use. :P
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2008matt
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RE: 787 Dreamliner Private Jet?

Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:46 am

Quoting Antoniemey (Reply 25):

Haha I will second that
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LH422
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RE: 787 Dreamliner Private Jet?

Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:34 am

Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 5):
I found the 748 availability very interesting though for someone who needs a BBJ quick because it'll be available in 9 months.

This would also mean that if LH, CA or KE wanted theirs earlier, that should be possible.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: 787 Dreamliner Private Jet?

Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:39 am

Quoting 2008matt (Reply 18):
Could the US government buy one to replace Air Force two, as that must be getting old now?

Here it is:


(uploaded by http://www.flickr.com/photos/flightblogger/)

 
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Pellegrine
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RE: 787 Dreamliner Private Jet?

Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:42 am

Quoting Antoniemey (Reply 25):
If you've got the $30m... give it to me, I'll put it to good use. :P

If I get a WB PJ I'll interview you for a job as a "ground services manager" i.e. no loading, but supervising. You'd fly with me, and my company pays way above average. How about that?
oh boy, here we go!!!
 
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antoniemey
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RE: 787 Dreamliner Private Jet?

Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:46 am

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 29):
If I get a WB PJ I'll interview you for a job as a "ground services manager" i.e. no loading, but supervising. You'd fly with me, and my company pays way above average. How about that?

Works for me.
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totesen
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RE: 787 Dreamliner Private Jet?

Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:20 pm

Quoting AM (Reply 16):

Indeed, a 787-9 should replace the current 757-200 as the future Mexican Presidential aircraft.
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PC12Fan
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RE: 787 Dreamliner Private Jet?

Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:20 pm

Quoting mingocr83 (Reply 20):
Quoting 2008matt (Reply 18):

It was rumored that a 77L BBJ could be the solution...

Seems to me that a 767-200LR would be a better solution. Slightly bigger upgrade. Definitely would have the long legs. Would have worldwide support with commonality to the new tanker fleet. Yet not a huge platform.   
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RE: 787 Dreamliner Private Jet?

Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:36 pm

Quoting 4tet (Reply 13):
If so, 80M - 150M for the interior completion, it's so exaggerated! I understand that if you want everything with gold and diamonds can be much more, but for a regular completion with materials like leather and wood, I found it simply unacceptable!

I agree. Even including top of the range fire retardant materials and high spec electricals, how on earth can a few sofas, beds, chairs and bathrooms come anywhere near that amount of money?
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RE: 787 Dreamliner Private Jet?

Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:38 pm

Quoting skywaymanaz (Reply 24):

Quoting 2008matt (Reply 21):
what will replace Air Force one when that retires?

A version of the 777 and 787 have been mentioned but I expect it will be a few 747-8's.

Not to mention I am sure the POTUS transfer requirements are better served by 4 engines vs 2.
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tdscanuck
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RE: 787 Dreamliner Private Jet?

Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:32 pm

Quoting gabrielchew (Reply 33):
how on earth can a few sofas, beds, chairs and bathrooms come anywhere near that amount of money?

Certification. An enourmous amount of testing and engineering is required to demonstrate that the fittings comply with the regulations. For example, not many run of the mill couches will stay attached to the floor at 16g.

Tom.
 
Viscount724
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RE: 787 Dreamliner Private Jet?

Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:14 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 22):
There are also 6 C-32s, 4 in the executive configuration, so there isn't just one which is flown as Air Force Two for the Vice-President.

Aren't there now 5 in VIP configuration, including this one (90016) acquired from AA a few years ago (originally TWA)? The window configuration looks similar to the 4 original VIP C-32As.


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That aircraft with previous operators.


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AeroWesty
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RE: 787 Dreamliner Private Jet?

Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:19 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 36):
Aren't there now 5 in VIP configuration

Could be, I don't really look at 'em since they don't have the right livery.  
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KarelXWB
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RE: 787 Dreamliner Private Jet?

Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:12 am

Quoting LH422 (Reply 27):
This would also mean that if LH, CA or KE wanted theirs earlier, that should be possible.

It could but it's not gonna happen. Boeing will introduce an updated 747-8i in 2014, it's smarter to wait for it. The first Air China line number (1499) has already been allocated and it should start final assembly in the beginning of 2014.

[Edited 2013-01-22 01:13:18]
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neutrino
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RE: 787 Dreamliner Private Jet?

Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:37 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 15):

In the second pic, underwing reflection makes the bird appear to sport the yet-to-fly dual feather winglet.  
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777STL
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RE: 787 Dreamliner Private Jet?

Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:02 pm

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 35):
Certification. An enourmous amount of testing and engineering is required to demonstrate that the fittings comply with the regulations. For example, not many run of the mill couches will stay attached to the floor at 16g.

Not to mention that aircraft quality furnishings are not surprisingly, designed specifically for aircraft, which means they're overengineered and built out of higher quality materials that their regular counterparts. It's not as if they go down to the local furniture store to outfit an aircraft.
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7BOEING7
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RE: 787 Dreamliner Private Jet?

Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:09 pm

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 35):
Certification. An enourmous amount of testing and engineering is required to demonstrate that the fittings comply with the regulations. For example, not many run of the mill couches will stay attached to the floor at 16g.

Tom.

And the dance floor with the mirrored ball has to have railings to hang on to so that in case of turbulence you don't go flying--I'm sure the owner took them out as soon as he got it home.
 
ghost77
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RE: 787 Dreamliner Private Jet?

Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:29 am

Mexico's Air Force is due to get a VIP 787, might be the first VIP 787.

g77
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2008matt
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RE: 787 Dreamliner Private Jet?

Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:03 am

The queen should get herself one, maybe 747-8 or 787-9
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skywaymanaz
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RE: 787 Dreamliner Private Jet?

Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:58 am

Quoting 2008matt (Reply 43):
The queen should get herself one

I strongly question whether The Queen's Flight needs this but perhaps if it was shared with the Prime Minister. The once speculated Blair Force One. Then again I'm not a Briton so not sure how this is viewed across the pond by HM Taxpayers.
 
2008matt
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RE: 787 Dreamliner Private Jet?

Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:47 pm

Quoting skywaymanaz (Reply 44):

Very badly I would have thought haha, would make the government even more unpopular ha
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pygmalion
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RE: 787 Dreamliner Private Jet?

Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:13 pm

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 35):
Quoting gabrielchew (Reply 33):
how on earth can a few sofas, beds, chairs and bathrooms come anywhere near that amount of money?

Certification. An enourmous amount of testing and engineering is required to demonstrate that the fittings comply with the regulations. For example, not many run of the mill couches will stay attached to the floor at 16g.

Tom.

that and the flammability requirement that everything in the cabin must be proven not to sustain a fire... that burlwood commode cant be flammable.. so they are typically a very thin veneer of wood over a composite substrate... not cheap.
 
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bikerthai
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RE: 787 Dreamliner Private Jet?

Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:26 pm

Quoting Pygmalion (Reply 46):

that and the flammability requirement that everything in the cabin must be proven not to sustain a fire

Not only flammability but also, in the cabin, smoke toxicity. Not may substances meet both requirements.

Funny thing though, wool and leather meet these requirements very well.

bt
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2008matt
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RE: 787 Dreamliner Private Jet?

Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:07 am

www.youtube.com/watch?v=hS6lq_kaU0E

Just found this video for artists impression of 787 private jet.
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KarelXWB
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RE: 787 Dreamliner Private Jet?

Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:25 am

The WSJ is reporting: "Michael Dell Has Dreamliner on Order"
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