kjfk527
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N12142 Off Runway At EWR

Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:04 am

N12124 untied express inbound from ROC swerved off the runway at EWR this evening. Apparently tired blew out upon landing. No injuries reported.
 
Q
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RE: N12142 Off Runway At EWR

Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:00 am

There is no such a number of N12124 according planespotters.net I see N12142.

Q

Sorry: I saw your topic is correct. LOL!

[Edited 2013-01-20 21:02:48]
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: N12142 Off Runway At EWR

Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:38 am

Hmm, not a banner day for UA! Thankfully nobey was injured and hopefully the aircraft didn't sustain too much damage.
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airliner371
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RE: N12142 Off Runway At EWR

Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:42 am

No Injuries, heres the info,

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?se...n=news/local/new_jersey&id=8961425

WABC Eyewitness News was the only station with a reporter on the ground for the 11p.m. news.... I guess thats why they are New York's #1 news...
 
Cactus739
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RE: N12142 Off Runway At EWR

Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:54 am

5 crew members on an ERJ?

Seems a bit much  
You can't fix stupid.... - Ron White
 
AA737-823
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RE: N12142 Off Runway At EWR

Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:03 am

Quoting Cactus739 (Reply 4):

5 crew members on an ERJ?

Seems a bit much

ERJ flights on CO/UA have always had lots of dead-headers, in my experience.
I've seen four pilots on one flight... NOT counting the guys up front!
 
varigb707
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RE: N12142 Off Runway At EWR

Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:25 am

Four tires blow as commuter jet lands in Newark
A commuter jet veered off a taxiway after it blew four tires while landing at Newark airport Sunday night.
ExpressJet Flight 4480 -- which was carrying 13 people including crew -- touched down at 8:24 p.m.
More news from NBCNewYork.com
No injuries were reported aboard the Embraer aircraft, which was traveling from Rochester, New York, to Newark.
According to the firm's website, "ExpressJet is the world’s largest regional airline ... ExpressJet operates as Delta Connection and United Express to serve more than 188 airports in the U.S., Bahamas, Canada and Mexico."

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...ds-in-newark?lite&ocid=msnhp&pos=5
First, I said 'hey' and then I said 'now'. "Hey Now!" - Hank K.
 
yellowtail
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RE: N12142 Off Runway At EWR

Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:11 pm

Quoting varigb707 (Reply 6):
ExpressJet Flight 4480 -- which was carrying 13 people including crew

Sounds like a non-revers dream.....
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
roseflyer
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RE: N12142 Off Runway At EWR

Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:02 pm

To me it sounds like the antiskid system failed. That could have caused the brakes to lock and could have blown out all the tires. I don't know of any other reason that would result in all the tires going flat and potential loss of control. Any other thoughts?
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
Alias1024
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RE: N12142 Off Runway At EWR

Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:17 pm

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 8):

To me it sounds like the antiskid system failed. That could have caused the brakes to lock and could have blown out all the tires. I don't know of any other reason that would result in all the tires going flat and potential loss of control. Any other thoughts?

Seems likely it was anti-skid. I suppose they could have had the parking brake set too, though unlikely it has happened before.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
aerowrench
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RE: N12142 Off Runway At EWR

Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:44 pm

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 9):
Seems likely it was anti-skid. I suppose they could have had the parking brake set too, though unlikely it has happened before.

That is what I would guess. Its less likely to lose both channels of anti-skid than it is for a bored pilot to set the brake in flight and forget.
 
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Acey559
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RE: N12142 Off Runway At EWR

Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:19 pm

Definitely possible it was the brake. There's a procedure on the -145 to transfer hydraulic fluid between systems using the parking brake if one side gets low. If you do it in flight and get busy, the brake can easily be left on and voilà.
 
Okie
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RE: N12142 Off Runway At EWR

Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:26 pm

Flap 25 please
Huh
Flap 25
What
Just pull the lever with the Giant "P" as in Philap  

Ok, humor off.

Sounds like at this point with no other information it could be multiple tires on one gear possibly being a braking issue,
multiple tires meaning both MLG then a parking brake issue.

I could not see from the linked news cast what the condition of the tires on the MLG.


Okie
 
SEPilot
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RE: N12142 Off Runway At EWR

Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:21 pm

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 9):
I suppose they could have had the parking brake set too, though unlikely it has happened before.

If this turns out to be the case, it would be very easy to prevent. Simply create an interlock that prevents the parking brake from being applied unless the squat switches are made.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
flight152
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RE: N12142 Off Runway At EWR

Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:38 pm

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 13):
it would be very easy to prevent. Simply create an interlock that prevents the parking brake from being applied unless the squat switches are made.

Are you kidding? An easy fix is re engineering the parking brake?

Quoting Acey559 (Reply 11):
There's a procedure on the -145 to transfer hydraulic fluid between systems using the parking brake if one side gets low.

This is generally not something done in flight.

Quoting Aerowrench (Reply 10):
Its less likely to lose both channels of anti-skid than it is for a bored pilot to set the brake in flight and forget.

How about we wait for something official before blaming the pilots?
 
roseflyer
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RE: N12142 Off Runway At EWR

Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:25 pm

Quoting flight152 (Reply 14):
Quoting SEPilot (Reply 13):
it would be very easy to prevent. Simply create an interlock that prevents the parking brake from being applied unless the squat switches are made.

Are you kidding? An easy fix is re engineering the parking brake?

The parking brake uses the same brakes that normal brake operations use. The manufacturer is not inclined to put any logic in the brake system that inhibits the brake system based on air ground logic. Currently there is nothing in the brake system that stops the brakes from functioning in any way while in the air. This is intentionally done so that if the airplane gets stuck in air mode (the squat switches break or the logic controller breaks), nothing will inhibit any part of the brake system from working. It may be simple to add control logic to inhibit the parking brake valve in the air, but when you have cascaded failures, you have to be careful not to introduce an unintended failure cause.

Quoting flight152 (Reply 14):
Quoting Aerowrench (Reply 10):
Its less likely to lose both channels of anti-skid than it is for a bored pilot to set the brake in flight and forget.

How about we wait for something official before blaming the pilots?

I agree on not immediately blaming the pilots. It could have been pilot error, but it does not require a dual channel anti-skid failure force full brake pressure on the brakes. A single channel failure can do that because the other anti-skid controller can’t stop it. Also a simple check valve failure or line obstruction downstream of the brakes in the return system can cause the brakes to be stuck at full pressure.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
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Acey559
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RE: N12142 Off Runway At EWR

Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:07 pm

Quoting flight152 (Reply 14):
This is generally not something done in flight.

True, and I don't advocate it by any means but I've seen it done. In fact my airline forbids pilots from doing it at all anymore but a select few will still do it.
 
IBOAviator
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RE: N12142 Off Runway At EWR

Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:57 am

Quoting kjfk527 (Thread starter):
N12124 untied express inbound from ROC swerved off the runway at EWR this evening. Apparently tired blew out upon landing. No injuries reported.
Quoting airliner371 (Reply 3):
http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?se...n=news/local/new_jersey&id=8961425

"he [the pilot] had to get onto a taxiway" ...from News source above.

I realize news sources in aviation are usually inaccurate but does this above quote have any validity? If so, this raises my eyebrows. Would the pilot be instructed off the taxiway in this scenario? Seems unlikely because if he did notify the tower of the blown tires either to make sure the tower sent other approaching planes around or to just ensure the tower was aware, it seems unlikely the tower would instruct him off the runway. My question: did he swerve off the runway as a result of the tires blowing or did he swerve off the runway as a result of trying to exit the runway?

If he went off the runway as a result of attempting to taxi off the runway with all tires blown, then I don't think that was the best call the pilot could have made. In this type of situation, the pilot should have remained on the runway whilst maintaining direction control.. if he swerves off the runway while trying to stay straight, then that's out of his hands and not his fault. Attempting to taxi with all 4 tires blown is not a good idea.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 7):
Quoting varigb707 (Reply 6):
ExpressJet Flight 4480 -- which was carrying 13 people including crew

Sounds like a non-revers dream.....

       "All standby's have been cleared" was probably announced before the pre-boarding announcements haha

Regards,
IBO
Keep Calm and Go Around!
 
N62NA
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RE: N12142 Off Runway At EWR

Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:53 am

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 2):
Hmm, not a banner day for UA!

Well... not really UA.  
 
freeze3192
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RE: N12142 Off Runway At EWR

Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:32 am

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 15):


The parking brake uses the same brakes that normal brake operations use. The manufacturer is not inclined to put any logic in the brake system that inhibits the brake system based on air ground logic. Currently there is nothing in the brake system that stops the brakes from functioning in any way while in the air. This is intentionally done so that if the airplane gets stuck in air mode (the squat switches break or the logic controller breaks), nothing will inhibit any part of the brake system from working. It may be simple to add control logic to inhibit the parking brake valve in the air, but when you have cascaded failures, you have to be careful not to introduce an unintended failure cause.

Not entirely correct. I realize this is a E145, however on the Dash 8, the anti-skid system inhibits main brake function when the weight off wheels signal and the gear up and locked signal is received.

Main wheel brakes are available again when weight on wheels is received, along with wheel speed being greater than 35 kts or 2.5s has elapsed.

I imagine their systems might be similar.
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