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Swiss Considering 748 As 343 Replacement

Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:03 pm

Per Bloomberg, Swiss' CEO Harry Homeister says LX is in the process of choosing a replacement for their A340-300 aircraft. They are considering the 748, 777 and A350.

Quote:
“We want to substitute our A340 fleet at some point,” he said in an interview in Frankfurt, where Lufthansa has its hub. “We’d rather grow with bigger planes. For Swiss, the A380 is hardly an option, but we’ll look at the Boeing 747-8 and 777 and the Airbus A350. We’ll have to see what makes sense.”
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...de-following-parent-lufthansa.html

Personally, I think the A350 might be a more logical choice, as it offers full flight deck commonality with their (very new) fleet of A330-300s. But Boeing might of course be very willing in offering an attractive package for the 747-8, and LX of course has full insight in the experiences of LH with the airframe.
 
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RWA380
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RE: Swiss Considering 748 As 343 Replacement

Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:24 pm

Another carrier where the A380 is just too big, but the 748 is not. I think the outlook for the 748 is greater than many have speculated here on A.net. Great news, if it comes true, for Swiss and Boeing.
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LY777
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RE: Swiss Considering 748 As 343 Replacement

Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:26 pm

A 777/748 combo would be GREAT for LX!
That would change from their rather boring all-Airbus fleet.
Flown:A3B2,A320,A321,A332,A343,A388,717,727,732,734,735,738,73W,742/744/748,752,762/2ER/763/3ER,772/77E/773/77W,D8,D10,L
 
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RE: Swiss Considering 748 As 343 Replacement

Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:29 pm

The title of the Bloomberg article is a little bit misleading. Swiss is looking at all possible options, including the 777 and the A350, and not the 748 only.

Quote:
“We’d rather grow with bigger planes. For Swiss, the A380 is hardly an option, but we’ll look at the Boeing 747-8 and 777 and the Airbus A350. We’ll have to see what makes sense.”
Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK
 
jfk777
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RE: Swiss Considering 748 As 343 Replacement

Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:29 pm

Since SWISS is a Lufthansa owned arline the 748 proposal is positive, the 777 probably wouldn't work since LH doesn't fly it. The A350-900 would be the other viable plane, it wouldn't be a big enough increase.
 
JerseyFlyer
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RE: Swiss Considering 748 As 343 Replacement

Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:33 pm

They downsized from 743 to A346 launch order, then via restructuring and LH takeover from that to A343.

Anything bigger than a A3510 is doubtful in my view, A359 most likely.
 
Someone83
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RE: Swiss Considering 748 As 343 Replacement

Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:38 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 4):
the 777 probably wouldn't work since LH doesn't fly it.

They do through AeroLogic and soon Lufthansa Cargo
 
scouseflyer
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RE: Swiss Considering 748 As 343 Replacement

Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:38 pm

Quoting JerseyFlyer (Reply 5):
They downsized from 743 to A346 launch order, then via restructuring and LH takeover from that to A343.

Anything bigger than a A3510 is doubtful in my view, A359 most likely.

IIRC LH hasn't ordered either the 787 or A350 yet so I'd consider the A359 or 7810 as the real contenders here.
 
bthebest
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RE: Swiss Considering 748 As 343 Replacement

Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:40 pm

Clearly 748 is very possible given that LH seem to be happy with it - not sure they need that much though.

A359/X may be more likely, but would make sense for LH to cash in on the numbers and begin their A343 replacement as well. Long term planning could see Initial batch of 359 for LX, later 359s for LH and further down the line 35X as 346 replacements. Timeline works well and an order of say 40 A359 and 25 A35X would get a good discount.
 
ZKOJH
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RE: Swiss Considering 748 As 343 Replacement

Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:51 pm

Wasn't there a thread on this last year about replacement aircraft for LX ?

I can remember many moons ago flying into Zurich on my way to Innsbruck and see the mighty 747's in Swissair colours sitting on the ground,

Think this is like the TK order everyone got there hopes up for a 748/A380 split and they ordered 777's and A333's.

It comes down to who can offer the best deal, and what kind of time frame are we talking here? and no mention of the 787! (no comment!)

However going with Boeing would bring a new aircraft into the group not just for LX but LH could then be looking at the triple 7 family more when they want to order.

Good luck to all and hope an order happens in 2013....
Vietnam time..
 
FlyingAY
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RE: Swiss Considering 748 As 343 Replacement

Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:06 pm

I can't see what the 747-8i would offer to Swiss that A350-1000 would not. Well, availability perhaps?
 
runway23
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RE: Swiss Considering 748 As 343 Replacement

Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:43 pm

Quoting JerseyFlyer (Reply 5):
They downsized from 743 to A346 launch order, then via restructuring and LH takeover from that to A343.

You are mixing years up a bit here.

Swissair (not Swiss) flew 743s and was supposed to be the launch customer for the A346.

Swiss, ordered A343s before they became part of the LH group.

The only longhaul fleet strategy change made under LH group, was to remove the 332s from the fleet in favor of 333s.

In a sense, seeing that the 333s now have quite a bit more range than they did before, it would make sense to have a 748 or 77W/346/359 fleet for longer flights (eg. SIN, NRT, LAX, SFO) or those that need more capacity (GRU being at the top of that list).
 
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DolphinAir747
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RE: Swiss Considering 748 As 343 Replacement

Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:11 pm

I wouldn't be surprised seeing as LH seems to love their 747-8i fleet and sends them to premium-heavy destinations.
 
skipness1E
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RE: Swiss Considering 748 As 343 Replacement

Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:14 pm

Quoting LY777 (Reply 2):
A 777/748 combo would be GREAT for LX!

It's too big IMHO. They only fly A343s and A333s at the minute and the A333s replaced the even smaller A332.
 
lhcvg
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RE: Swiss Considering 748 As 343 Replacement

Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:33 pm

Interesting article, but given LX's niche I'd think short-term a 346 most likely (possibly from LH) and a 787 or 350 in the medium term (and those may replace the entire LX longhaul fleet eventually). There were rumors a while back about 346s coming from LH, but I'm not sure how that plays with this recent article.

That said, I still wouldn't be entirely surprised if 77W's showed up, since they would have substantial commonality with the 77F's over at 3S, and a few spare parts in common with the 77E's at OS.

[Edited 2013-01-22 06:46:32]
 
nyswiss
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RE: Swiss Considering 748 As 343 Replacement

Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:35 pm

This has been extensively discussed before and recently again : Swiss Aviation Thread #31 (by SandroZRH Dec 8 2012 in Civil Aviation)?threadid=5630012&searchid=5667951&s=swiss#ID5667951

From a fleet commonality perspective and based on input of others I would expect a 350 order
 
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American 767
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RE: Swiss Considering 748 As 343 Replacement

Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:35 pm

It would be nice to see another airline ordering the 748. I'm wondering if the customer number 57 will be used again if Swiss chooses Boeing. 57 was Swissair's customer number but since Swiss was born 11 years ago, they bought no Boeing plane at all.

Ben Soriano
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Ronaldo747
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RE: Swiss Considering 748 As 343 Replacement

Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:49 pm

I'd love to see 747-8s at Swiss. The clear advantage of the 747 is the fast availability, they could even use delivery slots from Lufthansa. But a 77W is more realistic for Swiss. With the exception of maybe JNB they do not need 4-holers anymore.
 
na
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RE: Swiss Considering 748 As 343 Replacement

Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:58 pm

A Swiss 748I would be awesome. I think the world can live happily without even more 777s or A350s.
 
jfk777
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RE: Swiss Considering 748 As 343 Replacement

Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:00 pm

Quoting american 767 (Reply 16):
It would be nice to see another airline ordering the 748. I'm wondering if the customer number 57 will be used again if Swiss chooses Boeing. 57 was Swissair's customer number but since Swiss was born 11 years ago, they bought no Boeing plane at all.

Ben Soriano

Why not SWISS is the new "Swissair". Its the same employees at SWISS that Swissair had.
 
airbazar
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RE: Swiss Considering 748 As 343 Replacement

Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:02 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 1):
Another carrier where the A380 is just too big, but the 748 is not.

I think there's little to no chance of seeing either because both are simply too big for LX. Do they even have any long haul route where they operate double daily flights? It will be A350's without a doubt.
 
lhcvg
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RE: Swiss Considering 748 As 343 Replacement

Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:19 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 20):

IMHO the only way you would see a 748 in LX colors would be if there were some major shakeup in Star, like if SQ left and LH decided to fill that ultra-premium gap by growing LX in certain markets. I'm not saying that has any chance, but that's the only type of scenario I see a 748 for LX.
 
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RE: Swiss Considering 748 As 343 Replacement

Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:25 pm

Quoting LY777 (Reply 2):
A 777/748 combo would be GREAT for LX!
That would change from their rather boring all-Airbus fleet.

  
Oh shalomshalom, LY777, how could an all Airbus fleet,   , EVER be boring,   ??? Besides, they have Darwin Airlines in the backyard with six Saab2000s!

Best,
Ferroviarius
 
Joost
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RE: Swiss Considering 748 As 343 Replacement

Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:27 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 20):
I think there's little to no chance of seeing either because both are simply too big for LX. It will be A350's without a doubt.
LX are an interesting carrier. And profitable at what they're doing. They are very premium-oriented (with KE the only carrier to offer F on all long-haul flights), have a strong homebase, a decent network and room to growth. It doesn't handle the volume of passengers like LH, but certainly has growth possibility for price-sensitive economy passengers.

At the same time, parent LH isn't happy with both FRA and MUC: although FRA has the additional runway, it has a ban on night flights hampering growth possibilities. And MUC decided against a third runway. ZRH might well be their escape in order to grow for the group.

And once you have a steady demand for F and C, it's quite easy to use larger aircraft and fill the back with the large volume of passengers. The volume can come from the LH network. (For a LH-loyal passenger from HAM or DUS, it doesn't really matter if the connection is at MUC, FRA or ZRH).

Having said that, I still think the A359, maybe some A350-1000s around 2020, is most likely. The 747-8 flirt might be nothing more than negotiation tactics with Airbus.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 20):
Do they even have any long haul route where they operate double daily flights? It will be A350's without a doubt.


ZRH-EWR is 3x daily A333.

[Edited 2013-01-22 07:28:48]
 
Someone83
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RE: Swiss Considering 748 As 343 Replacement

Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:32 pm

Quoting joost (Reply 23):
ZRH-EWR is 3x daily A333

No, it's 1x daily. ZRH-JFK is 2x daily
 
LY777
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RE: Swiss Considering 748 As 343 Replacement

Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:49 pm

Quoting Ferroviarius (Reply 22):
Oh shalomshalom, LY777, how could an all Airbus fleet, , EVER be boring, ??? Besides, they have Darwin Airlines in the backyard with six Saab2000s!

All-Airbus fleets always look boring to me:
- the A318/A319/A320/A321 are roughly the same planes
- the A330/A340 are also roughly the same planes (one has 2 engines, the other one, 4).
So, for me, an all-Airbus fleet (except the A380) turns around 2 types of planes. This is why I found it boring.
When the A300/A310 were still in the air, that was another story, they had much more character.
Flown:A3B2,A320,A321,A332,A343,A388,717,727,732,734,735,738,73W,742/744/748,752,762/2ER/763/3ER,772/77E/773/77W,D8,D10,L
 
HBGDS
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RE: Swiss Considering 748 As 343 Replacement

Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:56 pm

The only place a 748 would work for Swiss is where the 743 non-combi worked: GVA or ZRH to JFK, In other words, the milk route for the UN and for the financial centers. The only reason they used 743s otherwise were as Combis on their Asian routes. They were offered the A380. There is a model of it and archievs reportedly have some kind of early study of its potential when the A380 was still A3XX.

ANyway, I doubt 748 would come along unless LH thinks it's viable to share that sort of fleet.
 
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RE: Swiss Considering 748 As 343 Replacement

Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:09 pm

Quoting joost (Reply 23):
(LX) are very premium-oriented (with KE the only carrier to offer F on all long-haul flights), have a strong homebase, a decent network and room to growth. It doesn't handle the volume of passengers like LH, but certainly has growth possibility for price-sensitive economy passengers.

The 747-8 works well in a premium-heavy configuration as it has the floor-space and the payload weight lift to support a large number of heavy First Class and Business Class seats.

That being said, a 747-8 would see double the Business Class and over 50% more Economy Class seating than the A340-300. So LX would need to find a significantly higher number of Business Class passengers as well as Economy Class passengers.
 
Joost
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RE: Swiss Considering 748 As 343 Replacement

Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:25 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 27):
The 747-8 works well in a premium-heavy configuration as it has the floor-space and the payload weight lift to support a large number of heavy First Class and Business Class seats.

Well, in a way, you're right.

Premium-heavy aircraft are actually lighter than Y-heavy aircraft. Business and First-seat are heavy indeed, but not as heavy as passengers packed in Y.

For example, for LX in business (A330, Vantage seat), there is a 4/5-abreast configuration at 60". So 7 rows is 32 seats and totals 420"

At 32", 420" offers 13 rows of 8 seats = 104 seats. So that's 72 passengers, say at 75kgs (incl bag) each, makes 5400 kgs. That's more than the weight of business seats.

Now AFAIK, compared to the 77W, the 748 isn't a payload-king. That makes it very good for premium-heavy configurations.

Exactly this makes the 333 suitable for quite long routes with LX: with 236 pax, they aren't very heavily loaded and have room for fuel. For example, KLM's 292-seat 333s, will carry more payload by these 56 extra pax.

Quoting LY777 (Reply 25):
So, for me, an all-Airbus fleet (except the A380) turns around 2 types of planes. This is why I found it boring.

Airlines tend to like this commonality, though  
Quoting Someone83 (Reply 24):
No, it's 1x daily. ZRH-JFK is 2x daily

Thanks!
 
roseflyer
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RE: Swiss Considering 748 As 343 Replacement

Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:37 pm

Quoting Someone83 (Reply 6):
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 4):
the 777 probably wouldn't work since LH doesn't fly it.

They do through AeroLogic and soon Lufthansa Cargo

Austrian flies the 777 and provides the technical support from an engineering perspective for the plane for the Lufthansa group. A 777 order isn't out of the question.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Swiss Considering 748 As 343 Replacement

Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:38 pm

Quoting nyswiss (Reply 15):
From a fleet commonality perspective and based on input of others I would expect a 350 order

What does the A-350 have in common with the rest of the LX or LH fleet? Only FBW is all I see.

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 13):
It's too big IMHO. They only fly A343s and A333s at the minute and the A333s replaced the even smaller A332.

According to Wiki, LX wants to replace the A-343s with a bigger airplane.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_International_Air_Lines#Fleet

Quoting joost (Reply 23):
The 747-8 flirt might be nothing more than negotiation tactics with Airbus.

That could be true with any potential sale for Airbus or Boeing aircraft competing against each other.

I think most people have forgotten that LH still holds 20 options on the B-747-8i. LH could easily exercise some or all of those optioned airplanes, sending some to LX and others to LH. I'm assuming LH can get these options at a very good price, and it may be in the original contract for the 20 firm and 20 option LH originally ordered. I do expect LH to execise at least one optioned B-747-8i soon to replace the one they recently gave back to Boeing as a flight test airplane.
 
strfyr51
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RE: Swiss Considering 748 As 343 Replacement

Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:49 pm

Quoting LY777 (Reply 25):

who in the World would buy an airplane because it has "character"?? what airplane isn't boring after you've seen it for some time?? Heck I LOVE airplanes but after 43 years?? I can't remember one that was exciting. Especially when they're Broken! They kind of all look the same then..
 
ytz
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RE: Swiss Considering 748 As 343 Replacement

Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:09 pm

Quoting LY777 (Reply 2):
A 777/748 combo would be GREAT for LX!

I would think 748/7810 combo.

From ZRH, the 787-10 will have enough range to carry a nearly full payload to the US West Coast, China/Taiwan, India, Brazil, the northern half of South America, the Carribean and Mexico. It might well be capable of SIN as well.

The A359 and 777 would seem to me, to be too much airplane in this situation.

And the 748 is perfect sized for a subsidiary airline like LX.

Of course, a lot depends on the path that LH wants to go with the common widebody fleet across its brands.
 
ATL
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RE: Swiss Considering 748 As 343 Replacement

Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:10 pm

YES. Been waiting for this moment for a while, the 747-8 would look fantastic in LX colors. Also, upper business class cabin would be great.
 
musapapaya
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RE: Swiss Considering 748 As 343 Replacement

Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:12 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 27):
hat being said, a 747-8 would see double the Business Class and over 50% more Economy Class seating than the A340-300. So LX would need to find a significantly higher number of Business Class passengers as well as Economy Class passengers.

Their flight to HKG is usually quite full, but take this for example, if CX goes back to HKG-ZRH, will they manage to fill a plane like a 748?

50% increase in Y class is a lot, I do think the 748 is too big, and given the 777 is a generation old, (not the 359/787 generation), my bet is still on the 359.

just my 2 cents  
Lufthansa Group of Airlines
 
KaiTak747
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RE: Swiss Considering 748 As 343 Replacement

Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:23 pm

Quoting joost (Reply 23):
LX are an interesting carrier. And profitable at what they're doing. They are very premium-oriented (with KE the only carrier to offer F on all long-haul flights), have a strong homebase, a decent network and room to growth. It doesn't handle the volume of passengers like LH, but certainly has growth possibility for price-sensitive economy passengers.

Swiss definitely has room to grow. The Swiss economy is a fortress and have a plentiful supply or Y, J and F pax. The brand is also very strong, which helps a lot.

Quoting joost (Reply 23):
At the same time, parent LH isn't happy with both FRA and MUC: although FRA has the additional runway, it has a ban on night flights hampering growth possibilities. And MUC decided against a third runway. ZRH might well be their escape in order to grow for the group.

Really interesting point. I don't know how many of Swiss's long haul pax are connecting, but I'm sure LH could funnel some more through ZRH.

With that said, I think Swiss will go for the A350. It's a conservative increase in capacity and with their pilot shortages (not sure if still a problem) fleet commonality will help.

I think LX will order some long haul aircraft for their GVA base or at least transfer some over from ZRH. Geneva has a large, wealthy and international population and LX only fly GVA-JFK longhaul.

I think if Swiss do go for the 747-8i a.net should throw a party!   
 
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yellowtail
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RE: Swiss Considering 748 As 343 Replacement

Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:46 pm

The key here is availability.....and price.
Both of which boeing will be glad to help on right now. I am sure that Boeing will cut them a helluva deal.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 27):
That being said, a 747-8 would see double the Business Class and over 50% more Economy Class seating than the A340-300. So LX would need to find a significantly higher number of Business Class passengers as well as Economy Class passengers.

LX can fill these to certain markets. MIA, JFK, LAX and South America.

Quoting KaiTak747 (Reply 35):
I think if Swiss do go for the 747-8i a.net should throw a party!   

Whose buying?
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MAH4546
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RE: Swiss Considering 748 As 343 Replacement

Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:51 pm

Quoting HBGDS (Reply 26):
The only place a 748 would work for Swiss is where the 743 non-combi worked: GVA or ZRH to JFK, In other words, the milk route for the UN and for the financial centers. The only reason they used 743s otherwise were as Combis on their Asian routes. They were offered the A380. There is a model of it and archievs reportedly have some kind of early study of its potential when the A380 was still A3XX.

ZRHBKK and ZRHMIA are very large local markets (~150 PDEW) that can handle a 748. Other than that, yes, it's too much of a niche for Swiss. I don't get it. Not many places to put it.
a.
 
AADC10
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RE: Swiss Considering 748 As 343 Replacement

Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:01 pm

It think this is Airbus and the A350's to lose. It is a true next generation aircraft with greater efficiency and comfort than the 748i and it is available in sizes substantially larger than the A343s. The only reasons to take the 748i is if they get a much better price or it will take too long to get an A350 delivered.
 
wingnutmn
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RE: Swiss Considering 748 As 343 Replacement

Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:01 pm

Is LX looking to replace a 4 hole with another 4 hole to not have to worry about ETOPs on certain routes? Because if not, I can see why any airline would want to buy a 4 engine aircraft over a 2 engine right now. I just can't see where LX needs any capacity over a 77W or A3510. And considering fleet commonality, I can't see them switching away from airbus. Boeing would literally need to give away the farm to make it economical for LX to switch. I also understand LH has an extensive boeing fleet, but current fleet commonality often outways price point savings in bringing in new aircraft when training and mx costs are added.

Wingnut
Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing! It's a bonus if you can fly the plane again!!
 
airbazar
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RE: Swiss Considering 748 As 343 Replacement

Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:06 pm

Quoting joost (Reply 23):
LX are an interesting carrier. And profitable at what they're doing. They are very premium-oriented (with KE the only carrier to offer F on all long-haul flights), have a strong homebase, a decent network and room to growth.

Good description. So given all of that and the fact that premium passengers value frequencies, I would think that VLA's are the last thing LX needs. The A359/10 seems perfect for LX.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 30):
What does the A-350 have in common with the rest of the LX or LH fleet? Only FBW is all I see.

You don't think that the LX order will be tied to the LH A340 replacement order? I do.
 
flyinTLow
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RE: Swiss Considering 748 As 343 Replacement

Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:07 pm

What I think most people forget here:

In times where the entire aviation industry is trying to cut down on costs, and LX being part of the LH family:

I highly doubt LX will go solo on any aircraft order. Meaning, in my opinion, it will be a large order of the same type, which will be split up among the company.

It's not only LX's A343s that require replacement. We have LH's A343s, and within the replacement timeframe, also OS's B767. Bundle those up, and you can consider an aircraft order of maybe 50 to 60 frames. That is an oportunity for a good price noone can neglect.

Talking about the options though, I would not consider the B777 unlikely. Given those numbers, OS's experience with the aircraft type, and the upcoming LH Cargo aircraft.

On the other hand, the B748 just seems too big for LX, definitly for OS. I would put my money on the A350 though, just my guess...

Cheers,
flyinTLow
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ytz
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RE: Swiss Considering 748 As 343 Replacement

Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:07 pm

I don't get why people are saying the A350 for commonality.

What commonality?

The LH group has not ordered any A350s yet. And while the A350 has some cockpit commonality with the A330, that will have only a limited impact on what the LH Group chooses. After all the LH group flies both Airbus and Boeing narrowbody widebody aircraft.

Personally, I see very little utility for the LH group in the A350 outside the A351. The 787-10 is basically the perfect aircraft for LH, LX, OS and SN. Enough range to fly a full or nearly full payload to Asia, Africa, North America and most of South America. More seating capacity than their current 333s, 343s and 77Es. Or at least enough additional capacity to accomodate the increasingly upgraded F and J cabins and possible Y+ without dropping seat counts. Toss in easier crew upgrades to the 748.

The A350-900 will probably max out on cargo volume and seat count before it maxes out on range for the routes that the LH group would operate it on. That's a rather inefficient employment of an airframe.

I see LX, OS and SN moving to the 787 for long haul. And LH itself operating A350-1000s and A380s in addition to 787-10s and 748s.

LX would do quite well with ~10 748s and ~25 787-10s.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Swiss Considering 748 As 343 Replacement

Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:08 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 30):
According to Wiki, LX wants to replace the A-343s with a bigger airplane.

Fair enough, but the 748i is a heck of a jump from the 343/333 (they have identical fuselages). 77W or A359/J seems to make more sense. The 748i has the advantage that it is available quickly (not a huge backlog). It might also make sense to convert some of the LH 748i's to LX and see how that type works in LX's network before actually placing another order.
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columba
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RE: Swiss Considering 748 As 343 Replacement

Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:11 pm

Quoting LY777 (Reply 2):
A 777/748 combo would be GREAT for LX!
That would change from their rather boring all-Airbus fleet.

787-9 and 787-10 fleet mixed with some 747-8s makes more sense, no need for the 777 here
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
C010T3
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RE: Swiss Considering 748 As 343 Replacement

Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:38 pm

Quoting joost (Reply 23):
(with KE the only carrier to offer F on all long-haul flights)

TAM will also be on that list in a few weeks when the 767s are phased out.
 
sqsfo
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RE: Swiss Considering 748 As 343 Replacement

Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:40 pm

Although a 748 would be a logical choice due LH's ownership and operation of the 748, wouldn't that much capacity be overkill for the LX brand? The choice of A340/330 fleet has proven to do well for the LX group, not to small not to big, just the perfect size considering the Swiss demographics.

The more viable options for LX seem to be the A350, but do not rule out the 777 altogether because OS(part of the LH group) operates a mix of 777/767. At this point everything is up in the air.

I predict that LX will eye on the A350 or the 777 more; or it just seems more logical seeing their strategy.
 
ytz
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RE: Swiss Considering 748 As 343 Replacement

Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:41 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 43):
Fair enough, but the 748i is a heck of a jump from the 343/333 (they have identical fuselages).

Taken out of context, it is a big jump.

But LX is a piece of the LH Group puzzle.

If you were LH facing infrastructure issues and ops restrictions at MUC and FRA, would you not use LX, OS and SN to grow where possible?

This is where the 748 has potential at LX.

Toss in the fact that sooner or later the EU will slap on carbon taxes onto aviation. This only favours bigger birds and same or fewer frequencies where possible (like the NYC market).

Quoting columba (Reply 44):
787-9 and 787-10 fleet mixed with some 747-8s makes more sense, no need for the 777 here

Agreed on the 777. The 789 though offers no real advantage. The extra range isn't needed. And it won't have any volume/space growth over the current fleet.
 
ytz
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RE: Swiss Considering 748 As 343 Replacement

Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:47 pm

An alternative narrative could be the deployment of A350-1000s to replace the 343s at LX. More capacity than the 343s.
 
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Aesma
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RE: Swiss Considering 748 As 343 Replacement

Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:54 pm

In my opinion, the A350, 787, 777, in that order, are more likely orders than the 748.
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