seatback
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When Will We See Larger RJs At AA?

Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:18 pm

With the pilot contract secured weeks ago, I was expecting we would see some decisions regarding regional flying and possibly an order announcement for larger RJs.

Have I missed something, or is AMR waiting for other issues to be worked out?
 
lhcvg
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RE: When Will We See Larger RJs At AA?

Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:29 pm

Quoting seatback (Thread starter):

Have I missed something, or is AMR waiting for other issues to be worked out?

I think at this point there are still bigger fish to fry - namely, the future direction of AA as-is or a merger with US. Beyond that, you're at a point where (if you're AA mgmt) you have to decide between throwing in E-Jets and/or a few more CR7s now, or just going with larger next-gen planes as they become available (C-Series, MRJ, E-Jet NEO) and keeping what you have with CR7s for the time being. In a US merger you'd get access to a rather large fleet of CR7/9s and E-Jets, so you could always go the UA/CO route of running some of those to AA stations. I do think a large RJ order will be coming in the nearish future, but they are probably still working out the major issues before that at this point.
 
seatback
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RE: When Will We See Larger RJs At AA?

Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:37 pm

Quoting LHCVG (Reply 1):
In a US merger you'd get access to a rather large fleet of CR7/9s and E-Jets, so you could always go the UA/CO route of running some of those to AA stations. I do think a large RJ order will be coming in the nearish future, but they are probably still working out the major issues before that at this point.

You would think the branding efforts would have been a smaller fish to fry in the overall scheme of things! However, speculation has it that the 319 will probably go to to ORD first, but there's still a capacity gap between the CRJ700 and the A319 which you would think that it would be a priority.
 
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JBo
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RE: When Will We See Larger RJs At AA?

Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:45 pm

Quoting seatback (Reply 2):
You would think the branding efforts would have been a smaller fish to fry in the overall scheme of things! However, speculation has it that the 319 will probably go to to ORD first, but there's still a capacity gap between the CRJ700 and the A319 which you would think that it would be a priority.

For where AA is at right now, the investment of rebranding your corporate image and emerging from bankruptcy is more important than making a hasty fleet decision. As you stated in your original post, the pilot contract was secured WEEKS ago. It takes longer than a few weeks to secure any sort of aircraft order, any order that comes as a result of this new pilot agreement probably won't be announced for several months.
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apodino
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RE: When Will We See Larger RJs At AA?

Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:34 pm

Here is the question I have? Is an order for larger RJ's going to be made by AA themselves, or is it going to be made by what ever regional wins the contract for said flying? Delta went the route of ordering the CRJ-900's themselves. But usually it is the operating carrier who orders the RJs.

Which also begs the question....how much regional lift is Eagle going to be doing post bankruptcy and will AA seek out addtional partners? They already have Skywest and Expressjet, plus Chautauqua was doing some flying for them as well. Do they give them more flying? Do they bring in someone like an Air Wisconsin, Mesa or GoJet? Or do they wait for a merger and then use PSA and rearrange some flying.
 
doulasc
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RE: When Will We See Larger RJs At AA?

Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:57 pm

I am hoping to see E-170 or E-190s come to American Eagle.
 
commavia
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RE: When Will We See Larger RJs At AA?

Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:25 pm

Quoting seatback (Reply 2):
However, speculation has it that the 319 will probably go to to ORD first, but there's still a capacity gap between the CRJ700 and the A319 which you would think that it would be a priority.

I suspect that's probably right. ORD is the place where the need for a jet between the CRJ700 and MD80 was most chronic, so it's only logical the A319 would go there first.

Quoting apodino (Reply 4):
Is an order for larger RJ's going to be made by AA themselves, or is it going to be made by what ever regional wins the contract for said flying? Delta went the route of ordering the CRJ-900's themselves.

My guess is that AA will follow the Delta approach - buy the planes themselves, and then lease them to operators to fly.

Quoting apodino (Reply 4):
how much regional lift is Eagle going to be doing post bankruptcy

Quite a lot, most likely, at least for the first few years.

Quoting apodino (Reply 4):
and will AA seek out addtional partners?

Absolutely.

Quoting apodino (Reply 4):
They already have Skywest and Expressjet, plus Chautauqua was doing some flying for them as well. Do they give them more flying? Do they bring in someone like an Air Wisconsin, Mesa or GoJet? Or do they wait for a merger and then use PSA and rearrange some flying.

It will all come down to money, just like it has at Delta, United and USAirways for years. AA will put out the RFP and award the flying to the "best" bidder (who will in most cases likely be the cheapest).
 
lhcvg
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RE: When Will We See Larger RJs At AA?

Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:33 pm

Quoting JBo (Reply 3):

Going off JBo's point, you can always rejigger a/c placement pretty quickly, but fleet renewal/replacement is a longer-term issue. Assuming for our purposes AA does merge in some form with US, you'd also see some economies of scale in terms of freed up large RJ's from combined routes, so in effect you'd increase the available 2-cabin ASMs throughout the combined network. For instance, routes like DCA-DFW and DCA-ORD would likely consolidate into mostly-mainline service from the combined demand. US currently runs E-Jets to DFW, but they'd probably dump most of those onto AA or US mainline metal running that flight (similar to how UA offers a couple RJ trips to ORD each day but mostly mainline), and likewise to ORD you'd probably see AA upgauge some of the CR7 flights to mainline to fold in the US business that previously had to take UA.

Quoting apodino (Reply 4):

I think the market is now going toward the mainline carrier buying/owning the planes and then divvying them up as they see fit. IIRC CO even owned all, or at least mostly all, of the their ERJ fleet, and DL at one time owned a good bit of their CR7s and CR9s. These days with the regional fragmentation and movement away from in-house regionals, it makes more sense to own the planes yourself so you can distribute them as you see fit and hold that leverage in your negotiations with potential regional partners. You might see the big boys like Republic order some, but overall I'd think a majority will be mainline-owned going forward.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: When Will We See Larger RJs At AA?

Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:41 pm

What is the status of Eagle these days? I've not really kept up with all of the sell it/don't sell it business. Is AMR planning on owning and operating Eagle going forward as it has in the past?
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seatback
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RE: When Will We See Larger RJs At AA?

Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:53 pm

Quoting seatback (Reply 2):
making a hasty fleet decision. As you stated in your original post, the pilot contract was secured WEEKS ago. It takes longer than a few weeks to secure any sort of aircraft order,

It wouldn't be a hasty decision. My point is they probably or at least should have been preparing or prepping for when they got the desired contract to pull the trigger on a enacting a RJ strategy. AA knew they were going to get a contract that would serve their advantage.

Quoting LHCVG (Reply 7):
CO even owned all, or at least mostly all, of the their ERJ fleet

It was called ExpressJet.
 
lhcvg
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RE: When Will We See Larger RJs At AA?

Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:00 pm

Quoting seatback (Reply 9):
It was called ExpressJet.

Right, but didn't CO actually own XJ's planes, at least at one point?
 
iFlyLOTs
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RE: When Will We See Larger RJs At AA?

Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:11 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 8):
Is AMR planning on owning and operating Eagle going forward as it has in the past?

Last I heard their plan was to sell off Eagle at some point but when they did they (AMR) were going to keep the Eagle name as the regional and force whoever bought out Eagle to change their name. They were also going to start to bring Chautauqua under the Eagle name and get rid of the Connection brand.
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Sancho99504
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RE: When Will We See Larger RJs At AA?

Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:45 pm

I think E190s might be too large for contract flying, but then again, US was able to get a mainline payscale for it that made it profitable to fly. Before anyone says "then why did US cut the fleet?", they only cut it because they wanted to cut capacity and the E190 wasn't protected from minimum number in the fleet. There are a lot of places where AA could put CR9 on current S80 and CR7 routes and move CR7s to E14X routes and allow A319s for growth in other markets, especially out of LAX and ORD.
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JBo
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RE: When Will We See Larger RJs At AA?

Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:10 pm

Quoting iFlyLOTs (Reply 11):
Last I heard their plan was to sell off Eagle at some point but when they did they (AMR) were going to keep the Eagle name as the regional and force whoever bought out Eagle to change their name. They were also going to start to bring Chautauqua under the Eagle name and get rid of the Connection brand.

American Eagle as a corporate entity will most likely adopt a new name should they be divested from AMR (I suggest resurrecting the Simmons name, since Eagle is using the old Simmons certificate), however I think it is a smart move to use the "American Eagle" brand name across the board for all regional operations instead of using both Eagle and Connection.
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FWAERJ
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RE: When Will We See Larger RJs At AA?

Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:40 pm

Quoting LHCVG (Reply 10):
Quoting seatback (Reply 9):
It was called ExpressJet.

Right, but didn't CO actually own XJ's planes, at least at one point?

First off, XE was the old ExpressJet IATA code prior to the merger with ASA and adoption of ASA's EV code. XJ was the code for Mesaba Airlines prior to their consolidation with Pinnacle Airlines (9E).

And yes, XE was once a wholly-owned CO subsidiary, and CO once owned the leases to XE's planes. IIRC, after the split from CO, CO rejected leases and contracts for many of XE's aircraft, which led to the short-lived DL LAX contract, the independent flying experiment, and the PMUA DEN contract.

[Edited 2013-01-22 13:46:33]
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FWAERJ
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RE: When Will We See Larger RJs At AA?

Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:44 pm

Quoting JBo (Reply 13):
American Eagle as a corporate entity will most likely adopt a new name should they be divested from AMR (I suggest resurrecting the Simmons name, since Eagle is using the old Simmons certificate)

AMR has said that American Eagle Airlines (MQ) will get a new name regardless of whether AA divests it or not. This is because the American Eagle brand will be more than just MQ.
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ouboy79
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RE: When Will We See Larger RJs At AA?

Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:21 pm

Quoting JBo (Reply 13):
American Eagle as a corporate entity will most likely adopt a new name should they be divested from AMR (I suggest resurrecting the Simmons name, since Eagle is using the old Simmons certificate), however I think it is a smart move to use the "American Eagle" brand name across the board for all regional operations instead of using both Eagle and Connection.

Indeed. So if/when this does happen those holding cushy seniority numbers need to jump to mainline quick before they are just another contract nightmare like what Delta did to the connection ground folks.

I do wonder in all of this how much the merger is also playing a part when it comes to MQ's future. If the merger happens, you have two more subsidiaries in PSA and Piedmont that you are going to play with. They are going to need to decide if they want to merge the 3 into one or keep them all separate.
 
SJUSXM
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RE: When Will We See Larger RJs At AA?

Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:25 pm

Stated with the rebranding last week...

AMR looks to increase large regional capacity in 2013.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...lines-planes-idUSL1E9CHFH520130117
AT7, ER3, ER4, ER5, CR7, E70, E75, F100, M82, M83, 722, 732, 738, 752, 762, 763, AB6, 320, 321, 772, 77W
 
lhcvg
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RE: When Will We See Larger RJs At AA?

Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:25 pm

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 14):
First off, XE was the old ExpressJet IATA code prior to the merger with ASA and adoption of ASA's EV code. XJ was the code for Mesaba Airlines prior to their consolidation with Pinnacle Airlines (9E).

And yes, XE was once a wholly-owned CO subsidiary, and CO once owned the leases to XE's planes. IIRC, after the split from CO, CO rejected leases and contracts for many of XE's aircraft, which led to the short-lived DL LAX contract, the independent flying experiment, and the PMUA DEN contract.

Thanks for the info and clearing all that up!   
 
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Acey559
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RE: When Will We See Larger RJs At AA?

Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:42 am

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 15):


Which we are oh so thrilled about, as you can imagine.  
 
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antoniemey
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RE: When Will We See Larger RJs At AA?

Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:54 am

Quoting LHCVG (Reply 7):
IIRC CO even owned all, or at least mostly all, of the their ERJ fleet
Quoting LHCVG (Reply 10):
Right, but didn't CO actually own XJ's planes, at least at one point?

Pretty sure the majority of them are leased and then sub-leased to ExpressJet.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 14):
IIRC, after the split from CO, CO rejected leases and contracts for many of XE's aircraft, which led to the short-lived DL LAX contract, the independent flying experiment, and the PMUA DEN contract.

As I understand it, ExpressJet (I'll call them XE for the pre-merger entity) was given the option to relinquish the planes (which CO would then have leased to another operator, presumably Chautauqua) or keep them and find other things to do with them (as long as they weren't flown to CO Hubs). This was done with 60-odd planes, out of a fleet of nearly 300, at the time. XE chose to keep the leases on the planes and operated them independently, for Delta, and for United, eventually. The United contract put all or most of those planes back to work under contract flying. Then they merged into EV. So Continental (the subsidiary of United Continental Holdings that exists for contract purposes) still owns or leases those aircraft and sub-leases them to ExpressJet, unless those titles/leases have been transferred to a different subsidiary or directly to ExpressJet (of which, I believe the former to be more likely).
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CRJ900
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RE: When Will We See Larger RJs At AA?

Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:59 am

Quoting sancho99504 (Reply 12):
I think E190s might be too large for contract flying

How about a 90-seat CRJ1000 with 18F + 72Y? Big enough to offer extra capacity but small enough to be allowed as a regional aircraft?
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lhcvg
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RE: When Will We See Larger RJs At AA?

Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:33 pm

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 21):
How about a 90-seat CRJ1000 with 18F + 72Y? Big enough to offer extra capacity but small enough to be allowed as a regional aircraft?

Something in that range would be very doable as long as it's kosher with scope - AC Jazz runs those in an 86-seat config I believe. While I too am a fan of large RJs with big F cabins for those routes that can't support mainline but do have decent F traffic, I don't see 18F working here though. You'd probably have to do something like the 12F AC config. 18F is an awful lot of F for anything under 150ish seats that isn't a niche variant for an uber premium market.

Personally I am a bit surprised we haven't seen more CR1Ks, particularly in the US where I'd think it would slot nicely between the 76ish-seat E75/CR9s and the 73G and 319 size, given that carriers don't seem too thrilled with E90s and 717s are hard to come by unless you're DL.

Keep in mind though that the flip side to this coin is that such planes would most definitely be mainline replacements, so while it's nice idea it may not be good insofar as it would be a further reduction in mainline flying. Thus, the pilot's unions are probably unlikely to approve scope that would allow such a plane barring some major concessions elsewhere.
 
ckfred
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RE: When Will We See Larger RJs At AA?

Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:46 pm

AMR was in talks with Embrear and Canadair about larger aircraft (170/190 and C-Series) before the bankruptcy filing. I would assume that those talks would have continued during the course of bankruptcy.

Depending on how quickly AMR/AA/Eagle exits Chapter 11, as well as the decision on a merger with US, will probably dictate when some sort of order for larger RJs is announced.
 
jsnww81
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RE: When Will We See Larger RJs At AA?

Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:48 pm

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 21):
How about a 90-seat CRJ1000 with 18F + 72Y? Big enough to offer extra capacity but small enough to be allowed as a regional aircraft?

Selfishly (as an AA frequent flier) I hope AA goes with the E-Jets, simply because the overhead bins can take rollaboards. Waiting in the jetway for a "Valet" checked bag is fine on an ERJ, becomes less enjoyable with a CR7-sized load of passengers and downright miserable on a CR9 when you've got passengers lined up the jetbridge all the way to the terminal door. The E-Jets and the C-Series have more of that "mainline" aircraft feel, where the CRJ-series looks and feels like a regional jet that's been stretched and stretched and stretched. I've been flying CR7s on ORD-IAH-ORD every week for the last four months, and I definitely wouldn't mind something with more headroom, larger windows and bigger bins. Now that it's winter, that queue in the jetway at ORD waiting for Valet bags is one of the lowest (and coldest) parts of my week.

At the end of the day, though, AA will go with the most competitive and cost-advantageous option (as they should), not necessarily the most comfortable one. They've got Embraer and Bombardier aircraft already in the stable, so it seems like a toss up for now.
 
Sancho99504
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RE: When Will We See Larger RJs At AA?

Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:24 am

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 21):
Quoting LHCVG (Reply 22):

If they can get a mainline pay scale for the CR10, then it would definitely be feasible, albeit with maybe 12F, maybe 15F if they use them in the right markets. Operating 15 or even 18F ORD-RIC or ORD-TUL would be loss making. However, an OKC-LAX or DFW-IAH with 18F might be profitable........ For scope purposes, it would have to be E175 or CR9 as the large RJs with probably 12F72Y at the upper end, but thats just speculation as I haven't seen what the capacity limits of the large RJs are yet.

Quoting jsnww81 (Reply 24):

Either way, I prefer CR7/9 and E75/90 to any mainline jet if I'm by myself either in F or Y, but love the big jets when my wife travels with me. I usually carry my small flight bag when I travel, so it doesn't bother me with the small bins on the CR7/9.
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seatback
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RE: When Will We See Larger RJs At AA?

Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:38 pm

I guess this answers the question:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/americ...gns-agreement-begin-113000359.html

This should be just the beginning.
 
commavia
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RE: When Will We See Larger RJs At AA?

Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:14 pm

Quoting seatback (Reply 26):
I guess this answers the question:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/americ...gns-agreement-begin-113000359.html

This should be just the beginning.

Several thoughts/notes:

* At least now it's finally official - AA shopping around for large RJs has been well known and expected for years

* As a customer, I am thrilled that AA went with the EJet as opposed to the CRJ

* My earlier prediction was wrong - Republic is purchasing these aircraft and holding them on their books, not AMR

* Based on the wording of the AA press release, it sounds like these jets will not feature Main Cabin Extra

* Embraer's press release indicates that Republic (and thus Eagle) will be the launch customer/operator for the enhanced E175 with reduced fuel burn, maintenance costs and more advanced systems

* Amazingly, the AA press release says the first of these new jets will be in service by "mid-2013," which seems to be only mere months away - I wonder if the 5 1st generate E175s will enter first, followed by the newer jets later in the year?

* Network speculation: where are these jets headed? I still would guess that ORD and LGA are probably the first places these jets would go, as the E175 is going to be a very competitive product for those very competitive markets
 
Sancho99504
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RE: When Will We See Larger RJs At AA?

Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:38 pm

Quoting seatback (Reply 26):

Interesting is all I can say. It looks like MQ missed the boat on this one. Are their costs still overly bloated that they can't compete with OO and RP for contract flying? If so, then how soon/long will it be before they go the way of OH? With 207 EMB's, can they make in this environment?
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
JoePatroni707
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RE: When Will We See Larger RJs At AA?

Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:47 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 27):
Based on the wording of the AA press release, it sounds like these jets will not feature Main Cabin Extra

In-fact they will---

• Through the agreement, Republic will acquire and staff all 53 Embraer-175 jets featuring a two-class cabin with 12 First Class seats and 64 seats in the Main Cabin. In the Main Cabin, 20 of those seats will feature Main Cabin Extra, which offers customers more legroom and priority boarding
 
seatback
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RE: When Will We See Larger RJs At AA?

Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:52 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 27):
* My earlier prediction was wrong - Republic is purchasing these aircraft and holding them on their books, not AMR

You're not wrong yet. The Republic agreement is only for 50 airplanes. AA needs a lot more than that.

Quoting sancho99504 (Reply 28):
Interesting is all I can say. It looks like MQ missed the boat on this one. Are their costs still overly bloated that they can't compete with OO and RP for contract flying? If so, then how soon/long will it be before they go the way of OH? With 207 EMB's, can they make in this environment?

Maybe they haven't been able to grow, or expand large RJ flying because of the restrictive pilot clauses at the APA. With that out of the way, lower costs (achieved through BK), we now could see a large RJ order. Although that wouldn't address AA immediate needs.

Additionally MQ is going to have to order larger airplanes if it hopes to compete with Skywest, Republic etc... No airlline is going to be attractive to a E135/E145 product line.
 
commavia
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RE: When Will We See Larger RJs At AA?

Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:56 pm

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 29):
In-fact they will---

• Through the agreement, Republic will acquire and staff all 53 Embraer-175 jets featuring a two-class cabin with 12 First Class seats and 64 seats in the Main Cabin. In the Main Cabin, 20 of those seats will feature Main Cabin Extra, which offers customers more legroom and priority boarding

Ah - interesting. Thanks. It makes sense these jets would get the MCE product, as they will be flying in and out of ORD on plenty of highly competitive routes up against UA and UAX jets that have E+.

Quoting seatback (Reply 30):
Additionally MQ is going to have to order larger airplanes if it hopes to compete with Skywest, Republic etc... No airlline is going to be attractive to a E135/E145 product line.

Well Eagle (the company) is heading in the right direction. The 135s will be gone by the end of this year. I'd imagine the 140s and the oldest 145s (which this spring will be 15 years old) won't be far behind.
 
Sancho99504
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RE: When Will We See Larger RJs At AA?

Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:15 pm

Quoting seatback (Reply 30):
Additionally MQ is going to have to order larger airplanes if it hopes to compete with Skywest, Republic etc... No airlline is going to be attractive to a E135/E145 product line.

I think there is a business case that would make probably 40-60 E35/45 sensible. I think those small number of markets may be able to in the future handle CR7 sized aircraft with current levels of frequency.



There are a lot of the routes AA currently has them on is ludicrous. For instance, ORD-RIC sees 3x ER4 from AA, while UA operates 2 CR7, 2 ER4 and 1 73G....
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
seatback
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RE: When Will We See Larger RJs At AA?

Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:19 pm

Quoting sancho99504 (Reply 32):
There are a lot of the routes AA currently has them on is ludicrous. For instance, ORD-RIC sees 3x ER4 from AA, while UA operates 2 CR7, 2 ER4 and 1 73G....

Cincinnati could also use some larger airplanes to both DFW and ORD!
 
Sancho99504
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RE: When Will We See Larger RJs At AA?

Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:23 pm

Quoting seatback (Reply 33):

That's one thing I miss about DL is being able to fly OKC-CVG-ORD on CR7/9. There is no more OKC-CVG, but I can still get just about where I want domestically on DL on CR7/9.......
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
FWAERJ
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RE: When Will We See Larger RJs At AA?

Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:35 pm

When I first saw the AA/RAH deal, I immediately thought "If some of these E-Jets will be based at DFW, the two daily FWA-DFW frequencies will probably get upgraded to E-Jets". FWA-DFW does really well at 2x daily and sometimes goes up to 3x, even with both flights on ER4s. And I suspect that if the flight is upgraded to E175s, it will do even better.

And it now looks like two carriers may be introducing larger RJs at FWA this year: 9E (DL) and RW (AA). FWA's master plan from last year didn't anticipate 70/76-seaters arriving until 2015, so FWA may need the terminal expansion found in the plan sooner rather than later.
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
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AA777223
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RE: When Will We See Larger RJs At AA?

Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:19 pm

Just saw this tweet. Interesting. Made me think of this thread.

https://twitter.com/airchive/status/294458251020488704
A318/19/20/21, A300, A332/3, A343/6, A388, L1011, DC-9, DC-10, MD-11, MD-80, B722, B732/3/4/5/7/8/9, B743/4/4M, B752/3, B762/3/4, B772/E/W, B788/9, F-100, CRJ-200/700/900, ERJ-135/145/175, DH-8, ATR-72, DO-328, BAE-146
 
rfields5421
Posts: 5632
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:45 am

RE: When Will We See Larger RJs At AA?

Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:41 pm

Republic Airways to fly 76 seat Embraers for American

http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/Ameri...ys-for-some-flights-188202791.html

53 aircraft to be painted in American Eagle colors starting 2 or 3 per month in mid-2013

EDIT

More info - E-175s

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/01...ts-from-brazil-planemaker-embraer/

EDIT #2

Republic Press Release

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix....-newsArticle&ID=1777459&highlight=

[Edited 2013-01-24 07:57:40]
 
JoePatroni707
Posts: 474
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:58 pm

RE: When Will We See Larger RJs At AA?

Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:51 pm

Just wondering if this is the beginning of the end for Eagle... They need to do something and fast. They cannot be competative in any way shape or form with all those 44 seat ERJ's. They dont have enought CRJ's to do much.
 
rfields5421
Posts: 5632
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:45 am

RE: When Will We See Larger RJs At AA?

Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:53 pm

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 38):
Just wondering if this is the beginning of the end for Eagle...

I've been certain for about three years that the AMR board intends to shut down Eagle.
 
FWAERJ
Posts: 2591
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:23 am

RE: When Will We See Larger RJs At AA?

Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:03 pm

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 38):
They need to do something and fast. They cannot be competative in any way shape or form with all those 44 seat ERJ's. They dont have enought CRJ's to do much.

The RAH deal is only the first of many 70-76 seat deals for AA/Eagle. More contracts will be coming, and I wouldn't be surprised if American Eagle Airlines (or whatever it will be called) gets their piece of the pie in exchange for ERD/4 retirements, much like what is happening right now with DL and 9E.

Wouldn't be surprised if EMBRAER does a buyback and exchange program for Eagle like the one that Bombardier is doing for 9E... E175s in exchange for ERJ-140/145s.

[Edited 2013-01-24 08:05:22]
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
apodino
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Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:11 am

RE: When Will We See Larger RJs At AA?

Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:13 pm

There is one thing that could complicate the RAH deal down the road. The Pilots at Republic have been working under a bad contract for many years and have trying to negotiate a better contract for five years. There have been a lot of issues at play here, but they have been getting federal mediating. This past week the federal mediator felt the two sides were hopelessly apart that she send everyone home and doesn't feel like a deal can be reached. You have RAH pilots who are now angry with the Teamsters union for their impotence in these negotiations, and this is getting ugly real quick. This could potentially turn into a labor strike in a couple of years if things keep going the way they are.
 
doug
Posts: 699
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 1999 8:54 am

RE: When Will We See Larger RJs At AA?

Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:27 pm

I hope that Miami will fit in some where in this equation.It opens up a lot of possibilities network wide going forward its good to read positive press lately about American keep it up.
 
ripcordd
Posts: 1034
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2000 1:12 pm

RE: When Will We See Larger RJs At AA?

Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:42 pm

I think this is the start to the end of American Eagle they will never be able to compete with regionals like this. They have already started a ground handling company paying 9 bucks a hour no benifits. I give American Eagle 3-4 years before they are not flying for American anymore.
 
commavia
Posts: 9781
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

RE: When Will We See Larger RJs At AA?

Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:47 pm

Quoting sancho99504 (Reply 32):
I think there is a business case that would make probably 40-60 E35/45 sensible.

I agree. There may yet be a viable business case for AA to hang onto some of those ERJs for some time longer - not another 20 years, but maybe another 10. Some of the new ones are less than 10 years old now, and in markets where AA/Eagle has a monopoly and/or dominates, their high costs may be sustainable if the network can generate high revenue to match. Not sure ... only time will tell.

Quoting seatback (Reply 33):
Cincinnati could also use some larger airplanes to both DFW and ORD!

CVG is, at least to me, an obvious market for these jets. This will offer a very competitive product in a reasonably large corporate/premium travel market. I could realistically see all or some of the CVG flights - at least to DFW and ORD - transitioning to 2-class large RJs.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 35):
When I first saw the AA/RAH deal, I immediately thought "If some of these E-Jets will be based at DFW, the two daily FWA-DFW frequencies will probably get upgraded to E-Jets". FWA-DFW does really well at 2x daily and sometimes goes up to 3x, even with both flights on ER4s. And I suspect that if the flight is upgraded to E175s, it will do even better.

Absolutely. There are multiple Midwest markets where I could see a 2-class large RJ, either the new EJets or displaced CR7s - being used to reduce frequency and boost yields. FWA, GRR and MSN, for example, I could all see moving from 3x daily ERJ to 2x daily CR7/E75.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 40):
The RAH deal is only the first of many 70-76 seat deals for AA/Eagle.

   Yep

With or without a merger, there are almost certainly more large RJs coming.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 40):
More contracts will be coming, and I wouldn't be surprised if American Eagle Airlines (or whatever it will be called) gets their piece of the pie in exchange for ERD/4 retirements, much like what is happening right now with DL and 9E.

  

Exactly. I suspect AMR is going to use the precise template Delta laid out for them with respect to Pinnacle.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 40):
Wouldn't be surprised if EMBRAER does a buyback and exchange program for Eagle like the one that Bombardier is doing for 9E... E175s in exchange for ERJ-140/145s.

There is still plenty of money left on the table as AMR restructures their regional fleet, and both Embraer and Bombardier know it. I suspect both are going to be willing to work with AMR on cutting deals that help AMR draw down its 44-/50-seater fleet if that's what it takes to win billions in new orders.

And, not to mention, I could also see an order - with or without a merger - for a not-insignificant number (50-75+) of large turboprops, either Q400s or ATR72s. There are plenty of markets Eagle flies to now where the ERJ is no longer economically viable but a 2-class CR7/E75 is probably too much. A Q400 or ATR72 might be just the right fit. And if there is a merger, USAirways Express has tons of old DHC8s that are going to need replacing.
 
loggat
Posts: 426
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2000 11:34 am

RE: When Will We See Larger RJs At AA?

Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:47 pm

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 35):
When I first saw the AA/RAH deal, I immediately thought "If some of these E-Jets will be based at DFW, the two daily FWA-DFW frequencies will probably get upgraded to E-Jets". FWA-DFW does really well at 2x daily and sometimes goes up to 3x, even with both flights on ER4s. And I suspect that if the flight is upgraded to E175s, it will do even better.

And it now looks like two carriers may be introducing larger RJs at FWA this year: 9E (DL) and RW (AA). FWA's master plan from last year didn't anticipate 70/76-seaters arriving until 2015, so FWA may need the terminal expansion found in the plan sooner rather than later.

LOL. I can think of at least 100 routes that would get the EJets before DFW-FWA. But good luck to you and I hope it works out.
There are 3 types of people in this world, those that can count, and those that can't.
 
FWAERJ
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RE: When Will We See Larger RJs At AA?

Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:00 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 44):
And, not to mention, I could also see an order - with or without a merger - for a not-insignificant number (50-75+) of large turboprops, either Q400s or ATR72s. There are plenty of markets Eagle flies to now where the ERJ is no longer economically viable but a 2-class CR7/E75 is probably too much. A Q400 or ATR72 might be just the right fit.

Eagle once operated the ATR72-212 and -500, which means that Eagle has experience with the type, so I think that an order for ATR72-600s is more likely than one for Q400s. And since Eagle Flight 4184 almost 20 years ago, improvements have been made to ATR cold-weather performance to the point where it could work in ORD snowstorms without crashing.

Still, I could see either the ATR72-600 or the Q400 in the Eagle fleet. Either one would work wonders on sub-250 mile routes from MIA and especially ORD. In particular, ORD has a lot of very short ERJ routes like MKE, MLI, IND, CMI, GRR, FWA, BMI, PIA, MSN, and AZO. All would greatly benefit from an economical modern turboprop as opposed to a fuel-guzzling ERJ. And if they use them on 250-500 mile routes, I could even see them putting in a F cabin up front and Main Cabin Extra much like what UA is doing with their Q400s.
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
MAH4546
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Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: When Will We See Larger RJs At AA?

Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:31 pm

I can see these going to all the hubs sans JFK.

From LaGuardia on busy business routes to Charlotte, Atlanta, Nashville.

From O'Hare to right-size markets like Reagan, Newark, Hartford, Oklahoma City.

From Los Angeles to open mid-continent markets like Kansas City, Colorado Springs, Tulsa, as well as replacing CR7s to Houston, Oklahoma City.

From Dallas to some of the longer, busier regional markets like Milwaukee.

From Miami to replace ERJ-145s to Indianapolis, Cleveland, Columbus, Pittsburgh and open mid-size markets like Milwaukee, Buffalo and Ottawa.
a.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24595
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: When Will We See Larger RJs At AA?

Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:47 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 27):
* Based on the wording of the AA press release, it sounds like these jets will not feature Main Cabin Extra

They will. First five rows on Y will be MCE.
a.
 
apodino
Posts: 3030
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:11 am

RE: When Will We See Larger RJs At AA?

Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:03 pm

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 47):
From O'Hare to right-size markets like Reagan

How could anything less than mainline be considered right size on ORD-DCA?