MesaFlyGuy
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AC Ending Service To PVD!

Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:31 am

According to wikipedia, Air Canada's flights from YYZ to PVD are ending on March 15th. I wasn't aware that these flights weren't doing well. Nevertheless, it is a blow to PVD as this is their only remaining international service. I'll also miss seeing the little Beechcrafts.  
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aeroblogger
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RE: AC Ending Service To PVD!

Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:36 am

Nooooo. Now I have to make the trek up to BOS if I want to take advantage of AC's awesome Z fares to DEL
Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
 
USAirALB
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RE: AC Ending Service To PVD!

Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:44 am

Huh. PVD isn't in the schedule for most of March and April, but returns in May.
E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/77W/319/320/321/333/343
 
thegoldenargosy
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RE: AC Ending Service To PVD!

Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:44 am

That's a shame the flight is ending. Air Ontario started the route back in the late '90's with a Dash 8.
 
SCQ83
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RE: AC Ending Service To PVD!

Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:08 am

Quoting mesaflyguy (Thread starter):

Apparently March 1st quoting this article:

http://pbn.com/Air-Canada-suspends-service-from-TF-Green,85790

I had no idea AC used Beech 1900s to the US. That thing is so small. Anyway that means no international services out of Rhode Island anymore.
 
globetrotter29
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RE: AC Ending Service To PVD!

Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:23 am

Very disheartening news for PVD. Two B1900s a day might not seem like a huge loss, but losing your sole international destination is a devastating blow to an economically ailing area that could certainly use some good news for a change.

Hopefully we can see this route return in the future, but with Boston so close by, and airliners abandoning small to midsize markets to concentrate on the major airports it seems like wishful things.
 
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WarRI1
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RE: AC Ending Service To PVD!

Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:28 am

It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
dlramp4life
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RE: AC Ending Service To PVD!

Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:00 am

It is just a Beechcraft flight, B6 just entered the market and maybe a ULCC like NK or G4 could set up shop at PVD.
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MesaFlyGuy
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RE: AC Ending Service To PVD!

Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:11 am

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 7):

The point isn't that its a Beechcraft flight, it's that this is PVD's ONLY remaining International flight.
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
AirNovaBAe146
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RE: AC Ending Service To PVD!

Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:41 am

Would you rather have NK or G4 with an Airbus 320 or MD-80 to Florida or the Caribbean

-or-

Air Georgian (Air Canada Express) B1900 to YYZ.

If you'd ask any of the airport vendors, they'd rather have the LCCs, as they are bringing a lot more passengers/parking revenues/concessions/fuel sales to PVD.

PVD will still be an international airport - a quick glance at FlightAware's arrival and departures out of there show numerous corporate or 135 flights to international places.
 
John
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RE: AC Ending Service To PVD!

Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:37 pm

Perhaps the reason why the flight isn't performing well is AC's poor choice of equipment on the route? That's a long flight on a Beech 1900, especially given the fact it has no lavatory. With more promotion, I'm sure they could make this flight much more attractive with a Dash-8 or even a CRJ.
 
lostsound
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RE: AC Ending Service To PVD!

Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:49 pm

Maybe Porter will swoop in to take that slot? Porter knows how to advertise destinations. They have a fleet of Q400s which are much more comfortable then the Beechcrafts, expecially with Porter's 34" seat pitch. Maybe we could see YTZ - PVD

[Edited 2013-01-23 06:53:34]
 
RL757PVD
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RE: AC Ending Service To PVD!

Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:54 pm

While its not good to lose an airline, 2 things here...

1) We're down an average of less than 30 daily seats.. jetblue just added 450

2) Most people who were paying a premium and flying on the B1900 would probably still use PVD as they were clearly not enticed by cheaper fares and 10x the frequency at BOS.

If Air Canada wanted it to work, they could have (DH8s would have helped) but its clearly not enough of a concern to them for the effort.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
Bobloblaw
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RE: AC Ending Service To PVD!

Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:59 pm

Guys, these AC flights on Air Georigian have horrible horrible reliability. Running sometimes hours late. Im not surprised.

PVD seems weird anyway. Not much local market and no one connects to YOW or YUL via YYZ. How much YYC or YVR traffic is there from PVD?
 
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Polot
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RE: AC Ending Service To PVD!

Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:03 pm

Quoting lostsound (Reply 11):
Maybe Porter will swoop in to take that slot? Porter knows how to advertise destinations. They have a fleet of Q400s which are much more comfortable then the Beechcrafts, expecially with Porter's 34" seat pitch. Maybe we could see YTZ - PVD

Q400s would likely be too much capacity. Remember that AC is running 2x daily 18 seat B1900Ds (according to one of the articles- wikipedia says they seat 17), so 36 seats a day. Porter's Q400s have 70 seats- almost a 100% increase in the number of seats. I don't see them entering this market with BOS so close.
 
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United_fan
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RE: AC Ending Service To PVD!

Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:04 pm

Quoting thegoldenargosy (Reply 3):
That's a shame the flight is ending. Air Ontario started the route back in the late '90's with a Dash 8.

Same thing in ROC. I often wonder how our YYZ flight does. It would be nice to see some AC CRJ's,though.
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RL757PVD
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RE: AC Ending Service To PVD!

Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:10 pm

Passenger #s were decent back in the day when they ran 3x DH8... better aircraft better frequency... 1.5x weekly B1900s isn't going to cut it. But like I said...90% of those people toughing it out under those conditions will still use PVD as for most people BOS is not a substitute for PVD, they function as independent markets.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
PVD757
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RE: AC Ending Service To PVD!

Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:32 pm

The schedule also didn't allow for a day trip from PVD to YYZ and barely a half-day trip in the other direction.

There are several area companies with their Canadian HQ or subsidiary in or around Toronto that would have supported the flights more often but this route had so many anti-demand factors (long flight on small aircraft, often late or cancelled, poorly timed local market schedule, cost-prohibitive fares, massive service inbalance with Boston) that it was more attractive to simply towncar their execs to Boston and choose between up to 4 differant carriers (AC, PD, AA-gone now, DL) in the past year or so.

Regardless of all that, AC will be missed.
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: AC Ending Service To PVD!

Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:55 pm

Quoting lostsound (Reply 11):
Quoting Polot (Reply 14):

What if the did it like 3-4x a week life they do at MYR and PWM? There is a bit of a local market, so I'd say it could work.
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
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yyz717
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RE: AC Ending Service To PVD!

Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:06 pm

I would think this route would peak in the summer for seasonal traffic. Surprised its cancelled just prior to summer.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: AC Ending Service To PVD!

Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:39 pm

Quoting AirNovaBAe146 (Reply 9):
Would you rather have NK or G4 with an Airbus 320 or MD-80 to Florida or the Caribbean

-or-

Air Georgian (Air Canada Express) B1900 to YYZ.

If you'd ask any of the airport vendors, they'd rather have the LCCs, as they are bringing a lot more passengers/parking revenues/concessions/fuel sales to PVD.

But if you ask the local chamber and businesses I would expect a good deal to say the YYZ link, preferably on something a little bigger than a 1900. Accessibility to a major hub like Toronto and the onward connections it offers will have been important to the local economy, even with BOS an hour away. Holiday flights to the Caribbean are a net exporter of wealth, the link to YYZ will almost certainly have been an importer.


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globetrotter29
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RE: AC Ending Service To PVD!

Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:37 pm

This does not bode well for ZX flights to BDL, RIC, PWM & ALB.

[Edited 2013-01-23 13:39:18]
 
RL757PVD
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RE: AC Ending Service To PVD!

Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:18 pm

Quoting globetrotter29 (Reply 21):

This does not bode well for ZX flights to BDL, RIC, PWM & ALB

My guess is PVD was affected due to the misconception that BOS is a viable alternative. The fact of the matter is, if you are choosing to fly 2 hrs on a B1900 at 1/20th the frequency then 90% of those people will still use PVD but just fly someone else instead.

[Edited 2013-01-23 14:18:55]
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
Viscount724
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RE: AC Ending Service To PVD!

Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:13 pm

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 13):
Not much local market and no one connects to YUL via YYC or YVR traffic is there from PVD?
Toronto is AC's global hub and passengers can connect to Europe, Asia, South America and the rest of AC's international network, not just Canada.

Quoting John (Reply 10):
That's a long flight on a Beech 1900, especially given the fact it has no lavatory.

Not correct. Air Georgian's Beech 1900Ds do have an enclosed lavatory. It's optional. Several operators have it.
http://www.airgeorgian.ca/images/Beechcraft_1900D.pdf

[Edited 2013-01-23 15:19:29]

[Edited 2013-01-23 15:44:00]

[Edited 2013-01-23 15:47:05]
 
dlramp4life
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RE: AC Ending Service To PVD!

Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:27 pm

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 8):
it's that this is PVD's ONLY remaining International flight.

What other international routes did they have? I am from Connecticut and used to fly out of PVD all the time.

Quoting AirNovaBAe146 (Reply 9):

Would you rather have NK or G4 with an Airbus 320 or MD-80 to Florida or the Caribbean

-or-

Air Georgian (Air Canada Express) B1900 to NK and G4 would bring in people, I am really not a fan of the the business model but if I was an airport manager I would love to have these carriers because that is more bodies coming into the airport.

[Edited 2013-01-23 15:46:21]


[Edited 2013-01-23 15:46:47]

[Edited 2013-01-23 15:49:41]
SEA Ramp, wettest place on earth
 
SCQ83
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RE: AC Ending Service To PVD!

Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:44 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 23):
Not correct. Air Georgian's Beech 1900Ds do have an enclosed lavatory. It's optional. Several operators have it.
http://www.airgeorgian.ca/images/Bee...D.pdf

I think one of the main issues with the Beech is storage. Particularly if those AC flights have connections to India/Europe/Asia, passengers would tend to check in quite a lot of luggage... and there is no capacity... specially since the Beech has not even overhead compartments.

[Edited 2013-01-23 15:44:59]
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: AC Ending Service To PVD!

Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:50 pm

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 24):

S4 used to do PDL seasonally.
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
iadbudd
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RE: AC Ending Service To PVD!

Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:11 am

Porter can't fly to PVD since YTZ does not pre-clear US pax like YYZ does. That is one of the reasons Porter is flying to IAD instead of DCA.
 
PVD757
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RE: AC Ending Service To PVD!

Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:31 am

Porter can fly to PVD since it has a FIS and is a port of entry (not CBP user fee) airport. Actually, AC flights arrived at the gate right next to the international gate at PVD. The FIS is integrated right into the main terminal building.
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: AC Ending Service To PVD!

Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:52 pm

Quoting pvd757 (Reply 28):
Porter can fly to PVD since it has a FIS and is a port of entry (not CBP user fee) airport. Actually, AC flights arrived at the gate right next to the international gate at PVD. The FIS is integrated right into the main terminal building.

That's what I had thought as well. After all, were the S4 flight pre-cleared in PDL?
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
PVD757
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RE: AC Ending Service To PVD!

Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:52 pm

Looks like YYZ-PWM flights are no longer bookable on the AC website.
 
RP TPA
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RE: AC Ending Service To PVD!

Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:52 pm

You can add YYZ-PWM (Portland ME) to the list. That route is ending effective 01Mar.
 
multimark
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RE: AC Ending Service To PVD!

Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:59 pm

Quoting lostsound (Reply 11):
Maybe Porter will swoop in to take that slot? Porter knows how to advertise destinations. They have a fleet of Q400s which are much more comfortable then the Beechcrafts, expecially with Porter's 34" seat pitch. Maybe we could see YTZ - PVD

Unfortunately one thing Porter doesn't know how to do is make money.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 23):
Not correct. Air Georgian's Beech 1900Ds do have an enclosed lavatory. It's optional. Several operators have it.
http://www.airgeorgian.ca/images/Bee...D.pdf

Yikes, does that mean there is such a thing as an "unenclosed" lavatory?   
 
Viscount724
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RE: AC Ending Service To PVD!

Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:50 pm

Quoting multimark (Reply 32):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 23):
Not correct. Air Georgian's Beech 1900Ds do have an enclosed lavatory. It's optional. Several operators have it.
http://www.airgeorgian.ca/images/Bee...D.pdf

Yikes, does that mean there is such a thing as an "unenclosed" lavatory?

I think that reference is to distinguish between curtains and other ad hoc separations sometimes used for lavatories on smaller aircraft.
 
sirnoble
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RE: AC Ending Service To PVD!

Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:03 pm

I noticed the same thing on the PWM Wikipedia page
 
Freshside3
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RE: AC Ending Service To PVD!

Sun Jan 27, 2013 1:29 am

Never even knew this service even existed.

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