Airplanebrain
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Stunt Pilot In Trouble After Questionable Stunt

Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:06 am

The 19 second stunt in this video looks incredibly reckless. The FAA is currently investigating him.

http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/dalla...ected-to-2008-crash-188146731.html
 
PHX787
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RE: Stunt Pilot In Trouble After Questionable Stunt

Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:21 am

That is just nuts. He could've easily crashed if there were some heavier crosswinds. That woman is lucky to be living....


Unrelated but anyone else notice the irony of the WFAA being the people reporting about the FAA investigation?   
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mingocr83
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RE: Stunt Pilot In Trouble After Questionable Stunt

Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:47 am

As side news...Kirby Chambliss had a crash in El Salvador today...

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/19018_198049197000517_1604005824_n.jpg

He is in good shape, just the scare of losing the engine at low altitude...he was doing a high alpha pass....

[Edited 2013-01-23 21:50:35]

[Edited 2013-01-23 22:15:31]
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a320fan
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RE: Stunt Pilot In Trouble After Questionable Stunt

Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:41 am

This could have gone wrong so easy and in such a small time frame, I would hate to think of the condition a person would be in if hit by a plane at such a speed. The pilot should have his license suspended immediately, with a detailed investigation into whether he could ever get it back.
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Passedv1
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RE: Stunt Pilot In Trouble After Questionable Stunt

Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:58 am

Just the camera angle? I don't think so.

The distance from the runway centerline to the edge line is 50'. The lady is closer to the edgeline then the centerline...looks about half way...so 25' from her to the edgeline. The airplane appears to pass her about 1/3 the distance between the lady and the edge line...so maybe 16' from the airplane to the lady.

Even giving this pilot the maximum benefit of the doubt of 50' That is way to close, and the commentor is right on...no "pro" would have done this.

Not sure it's possible to discern how close the airplane came to the camerman, but judging by how quickly he becomes enveloped in the smoke, the fact that the lady did not become enveloped in the smoke, I would say that it was even closer.

 
kpitrrat
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RE: Stunt Pilot In Trouble After Questionable Stunt

Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:00 am

Ok....That right there was EXTREMELY dangerous for everyone involved. I do not agree with it whatsoever.

But 2 things.

1 I dont want to be "that person" but I guess I will be. If the individuals on the runway were "supposed" to be there (however I cannot get myself to understand why) then wouldn't this be a situation where those involved assume the risk of injury or (more than likely) death in the event something happens? In which case its similar to some idiot on YouTube (presumably that is what this video was) doing something stupid?
-I understand that this is an aircraft and not some kid on a BMX, but still.

2. Why would there be people on the runway during a stunt show? Assuming that this was some type of performance....Whomever gave those two permission to be there should also be held accountable for this mess.

Again, I DO NOT AGREE with this stupid move. Just in this screwed up world you never know what may transpire.
 
bobdino
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RE: Stunt Pilot In Trouble After Questionable Stunt

Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:48 am

Quoting kpitrrat (Reply 5):
Again, I DO NOT AGREE with this stupid move.

That's totally cool. Since you weren't involved, it's not got much to do with you.

Quoting kpitrrat (Reply 5):
Just in this screwed up world you never know what may transpire.

Actually, you can figure out what may transpire. You can die horribly, but quickly, when you get sliced up by a propeller. You can die in a fireball as the airplane explodes after making contact with the ground. You can have your head caved in by the wing of the airplane. Not too hard to work out what might go wrong.

And yet, one can consent to risky activities, in the belief that the risk/reward profile makes it worth it. Lots and lots of good people died turning aviation into the relatively safe activity it is today.

The fact that such activities don't fit inside the level of risk you're willing to assume - which is totally fine, btw - doesn't mean you should judge those that do take part in such activities.
 
jcwr56
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RE: Stunt Pilot In Trouble After Questionable Stunt

Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:01 pm

While I do agree I wouldnt be standing out there, in the video it did say they were practicing for a show.

So here's a question. Even though it appears it's a stupid stunt, is it illegal? and were waviers signed because I would imagine this gentleman has insurance not only on the plane but for himself also.
 
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tjwgrr
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RE: Stunt Pilot In Trouble After Questionable Stunt

Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:43 pm

Quoting PassedV1 (Reply 4):
The distance from the runway centerline to the edge line is 50'. The lady is closer to the edgeline then the centerline...looks about half way...so 25' from her to the edgeline. The airplane appears to pass her about 1/3 the distance between the lady and the edge line...so maybe 16' from the airplane to the lady.........
........Not sure it's possible to discern how close the airplane came to the camerman


I've read the a/c only missed that person by a matter of a couple feet- I think this screenshot backs that up:

Stunt nearly gone wrong


[Edited 2013-01-24 05:48:21]
Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
 
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Web500sjc
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RE: Stunt Pilot In Trouble After Questionable Stunt

Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:19 pm

It is practice for a stunt show... for those unfamiliar with the definition, stunt:

Noun
An action displaying spectacular skill and daring.

this guy, as far as I know is a profesional stunt pilot, he is paid to make people awe and question how safe the action is. so in that regard job well done- hopefully he doesn't loose his permit (assuming the Permit is valid).

Now for me, I would not fly a plane in that manner, nor would I be one of those people standing on the runway, I do not consider that safe.


edited for spelling

[Edited 2013-01-24 06:51:45]

[Edited 2013-01-24 06:52:03]
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mandala499
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RE: Stunt Pilot In Trouble After Questionable Stunt

Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:45 pm

Runway edge line is about 3.4ft wide.
ATV was about 25ft from runway pavement edge.
Camera was about 10ft from the edge.
Aircraft was going outboard from the runway heading, the wing of the aircraft would have cleared the pavement edge by the time it passed the camera. So it would have been at least 10ft between the camera & the nearest part of the wing. The wing itself would be 15ft or so from the ATV at its nearest.

So no, it's not 2ft as some have claimed on the internet... but definitely a lot less than 50ft.
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26point2
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RE: Stunt Pilot In Trouble After Questionable Stunt

Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:28 pm

Clearly this stunt shows poor judgement but why then go and post it on the internet? Now THAT proves he's an idiot.
 
kpitrrat
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RE: Stunt Pilot In Trouble After Questionable Stunt

Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:36 pm

Quoting bobdino (Reply 6):
The fact that such activities don't fit inside the level of risk you're willing to assume - which is totally fine, btw - doesn't mean you should judge those that do take part in such activities.

You have no idea what level of risk I am willing to assume.

Quoting bobdino (Reply 6):
And yet, one can consent to risky activities, in the belief that the risk/reward profile makes it worth it. Lots and lots of good people died turning aviation into the relatively safe activity it is today.

Aside from the rest of you condescending reply, that was the point I was getting at. You assume the risk of doing stupid things. Still, the fact that the FAA would investigate this act implies that there was something about this stunt that may be considered illegal.
 
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PW100
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RE: Stunt Pilot In Trouble After Questionable Stunt

Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:48 pm

Do we now whether the camera was hand-held, or on long pole stretching out? The sun and shadow settings (conveniently/purposely?) don't give any clues . . . .
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zeke
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RE: Stunt Pilot In Trouble After Questionable Stunt

Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:27 pm

Is that actually a person on the runway, looks like some sort of dummy ? The base of the object looks more like a trolly or wheels ? It does not appear to move or change shape to me during the footage.

Too hard to tell the distance from the photographer unless one knows how much zoom is used.
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pvjin
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RE: Stunt Pilot In Trouble After Questionable Stunt

Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:46 pm

I don't really see a problem here, obviously that person or maybe two persons were willingly taking this risk so it's their own business as it really doesn't cause danger to anybody else.
"Optimism is the madness of insisting that all is well when we are miserable." - Voltaire
 
tdscanuck
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RE: Stunt Pilot In Trouble After Questionable Stunt

Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:25 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 15):
I don't really see a problem here, obviously that person or maybe two persons were willingly taking this risk so it's their own business as it really doesn't cause danger to anybody else.

Whether people on the ground choose to take on risk does not relieve the pilot of their legal and ethical obligation to operate the aircraft safely.

Tom.
 
g38
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RE: Stunt Pilot In Trouble After Questionable Stunt

Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:22 pm

reckless? Depends on how you define that.

Dangerous? Most certainly, but all the people in the video had accepted that risk, so reckless? I would say not.

If you want reckless, view the photo below. Only the pilot knew how low he was going to fly the approach... the spectators were left only to react... thank goodness they did.


View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Julian Adams



[Edited 2013-01-24 15:32:25]
 
g38
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RE: Stunt Pilot In Trouble After Questionable Stunt

Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:28 pm

Forgot to add the photo...   


Top
 
spacecadet
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RE: Stunt Pilot In Trouble After Questionable Stunt

Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:32 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 15):
I don't really see a problem here, obviously that person or maybe two persons were willingly taking this risk so it's their own business as it really doesn't cause danger to anybody else.

If you ask me to point a gun at you and pull the trigger, that doesn't mean I'm not required to say no. If I don't, and I do as you ask, I am legally responsible for my own actions and go to jail.

The people on the runway are responsible for their actions, but so is the pilot.
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7BOEING7
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RE: Stunt Pilot In Trouble After Questionable Stunt

Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:58 pm

I see this guy losing his license. I imagine what he did on the video is way outside whatever was stated on his certificate of waiver and the attached provisions. Mother FAA will not be happy.
 
flyingturtle
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RE: Stunt Pilot In Trouble After Questionable Stunt

Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:09 am

Photo seems to be broken.


Here the direct link: http://www.airliners.net/photo/1018814/


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Aesma
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RE: Stunt Pilot In Trouble After Questionable Stunt

Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:01 am

There are many stunts in the database that seem at least as dangerous if not more, usually involving cutting a ribbon.
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soon7x7
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RE: Stunt Pilot In Trouble After Questionable Stunt

Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:00 am

Quoting pvjin (Reply 15):
I don't really see a problem here, obviously that person or maybe two persons were willingly taking this risk so it's their own business as it really doesn't cause danger to anybody else.


Exactly...People do stupid things everyday for stupid reasons but if the parties had prior arrangements to perform this demonstration for whatever reasons...they are obviously adults and will deal with the outcome, alive or dead.
I would not consider jumping from a balloon 24 miles up a safe behavior either but I give the team high marks for pushing the edge. Life would be too damn dull if guys like Mayor Bloomberg had is way and banned everything we "stupid regular people" do. Kudos to risk takers...think landing on the moon was a cake walk?
 
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7BOEING7
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RE: Stunt Pilot In Trouble After Questionable Stunt

Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:24 am

Quoting Aesma (Reply 22):
There are many stunts in the database that seem at least as dangerous if not more, usually involving cutting a ribbon

Actually the ribbon is a lot higher than this guy was and the people holding the ribbon pole are farther away from the airplane. The ribbon guy has praticed the maneuver at higher then lower altitudes and has a plan if things go wrong.The airplane is in reasonably stable flight all be it upside down. I'm guessing the "stunt man" told one of his friends to cruise down the runway on a segway and another to film it while he would try and come as close to hitting them as possible.
 
soon7x7
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RE: Stunt Pilot In Trouble After Questionable Stunt

Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:33 am

I seem to remember the footage of a low pass, of a cleaned up A310 with an extremely low left wing almost cutting the grass in the field as it approached a more populated area. Now that was hubris at its worst.
 
smokeonreadynow
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RE: Stunt Pilot In Trouble After Questionable Stunt

Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:46 am

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 25):

I seem to remember the footage of a low pass, of a cleaned up A310 with an extremely low left wing almost cutting the grass in the field as it approached a more populated area. Now that was hubris at its worst.

Here is the video of an A310 doing some low passes at an air show in Portugal:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26H-WzIe858

Law enforcement agencies all over are using social media to identify and help solve crimes. Perhaps the FAA will also see an increase in this type enforcement.

[Edited 2013-01-24 18:48:21]
 
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7BOEING7
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RE: Stunt Pilot In Trouble After Questionable Stunt

Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:48 am

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 25):
I seem to remember the footage of a low pass, of a cleaned up A310 with an extremely low left wing almost cutting the grass in the field as it approached a more populated area. Now that was hubris at its worst.

And there was the Cathay pilot who on a 777 delivery flight made a low pass (50') gear up after his initial takeoff for Hong Kong. The first airplane he did it in nobody noticed the second one was interneted around the world and he retired soon after.
 
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7BOEING7
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RE: Stunt Pilot In Trouble After Questionable Stunt

Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:56 am

Quoting SmokeOnReadyNow (Reply 26):

Here is the video of an A310 doing some low passes at an air show in Portugal:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26H-WzIe858

Law enforcement agencies all over are using social media to identify and help solve crimes. Perhaps the FAA will also see an increase in this type enforcement.

If you read the small print "It was planned and trained". In the US the FAA would have to approve any "Airshow" maneuvers you were planning and sign off on them. I'm not sure they would buy off on this pass considering what they have required when Boeing has done low passes over the Seafair boat race in Seattle.
 
gf777
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RE: Stunt Pilot In Trouble After Questionable Stunt

Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:34 am

Quoting kpitrrat (Reply 5):
Whomever gave those two permission to be there should also be held accountable for this mess.

You are 100% right, this should go both ways!!
 
soon7x7
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RE: Stunt Pilot In Trouble After Questionable Stunt

Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:15 am

Quoting SmokeOnReadyNow (Reply 26):
Here is the video of an A310 doing some low passes at an air show in Portugal:

Yes!...thanks, while I would love to have witnessed that exhibition and is true testimony to a terrific aircraft and piloting skill, one "bird ingestion" and many would have died. Remember Bud Holland and the B-52 @ Fairchild AFB?...He was a friend of my brothers and he also had trouble keeping flight crews for air shows as crew members were afraid to fly with him. He eventually piled into a nuke storage site. It was excellent footage though...   
 
Silver1SWA
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RE: Stunt Pilot In Trouble After Questionable Stunt

Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:37 am

Well first of all, did this stunt go as planned? I'm going to guess, no. It was not intended to be so extreme.

Carefully planned stunts, photo shoots etc. involving people and cameras on the runway happen all the time. They are usually carefully planned and performed at safer distances and altitudes.

The stunt in question either didn't go as planned or the pilot and participants started pushing the limits too far.

Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 27):
And there was the Cathay pilot who on a 777 delivery flight made a low pass (50') gear up after his initial takeoff for Hong Kong. The first airplane he did it in nobody noticed the second one was interneted around the world and he retired soon after.

Was his retirement directly related to his low passes? Low passes in airliners aren't that uncommon. (Excuse the plug)


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71Zulu
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RE: Stunt Pilot In Trouble After Questionable Stunt

Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:27 pm

Quoting web500sjc (Reply 9):
so in that regard job well done- hopefully he doesn't loose his permit (assuming the Permit is valid).

Says in the video his permit expired in November.

Quoting PW100 (Reply 13):
Do we now whether the camera was hand-held, or on long pole stretching out? The

Sounds to me like the woman screaming is the one holding the camera and filming this. Seems way too close and judging by her reactions, the plane got much closer than she was expecting.

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 31):
Was his retirement directly related to his low passes?

He was fired by Cathay for failing to get permission for this stunt ahead of time.
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Silver1SWA
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RE: Stunt Pilot In Trouble After Questionable Stunt

Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:40 pm

Quoting 71Zulu (Reply 32):
He was fired by Cathay for failing to get permission for this stunt ahead of time.

Ah, I see. Thanks.
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zeke
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RE: Stunt Pilot In Trouble After Questionable Stunt

Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:34 pm

Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 27):
And there was the Cathay pilot who on a 777 delivery flight made a low pass (50') gear up after his initial takeoff for Hong Kong. The first airplane he did it in nobody noticed the second one was interneted around the world and he retired soon after.

That is false/inaccurate.
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7BOEING7
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RE: Stunt Pilot In Trouble After Questionable Stunt

Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:44 pm

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 31):
Was his retirement directly related to his low passes? Low passes in airliners aren't that uncommon. (Excuse the plug)
Quoting 71Zulu (Reply 32):
He was fired by Cathay for failing to get permission for this stunt ahead of time.

In the US as long as you have permission from the FAA as you would at an airshow you're OK. If you don't have their blessing and blow down the runway with your gear up--no intention to land--that could be considered a violation as far as the FAA is concerned--at least with a big airplane.

The head man from CAT was on board and gave him permission from what I have heard--he didn't have FAA permission.

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2008/02/24/1203788130049.html

Quoting zeke (Reply 34):
That is false/inaccurate.

Which part--facts & data!!
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Stunt Pilot In Trouble After Questionable Stunt

Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:23 am

A stunt should def not endanger others......
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exFWAOONW
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RE: Stunt Pilot In Trouble After Questionable Stunt

Sun Jan 27, 2013 2:33 am

Quoting 71Zulu (Reply 32):
He was fired by Cathay for failing to get permission for this stunt ahead of time.

How does this rate as a stunt? Slightly risky, maybe. Life is not without risk.
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7BOEING7
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RE: Stunt Pilot In Trouble After Questionable Stunt

Sun Jan 27, 2013 2:52 am

Quoting exFWAOONW (Reply 37):
How does this rate as a stunt?

stunt
2 [stuhnt] Show

noun
1. a performance displaying a person's skill or dexterity

2. any remarkable feat performed chiefly to attract attention

You gotta admit that flying a 777 down the runway clean at 250 kts+/- at 40 ft+/- attracts attention and requires some skill. Observing it first hand I will say it looked really cool -- can't understand all the press that said how dangerous it was. Compared to the "idiot" that caused this topic to be started it had a risk factor of zero.
 
rwy04lga
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RE: Stunt Pilot In Trouble After Questionable Stunt

Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:27 pm

Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue