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psa1011
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What's Next For RNO?

Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:23 pm

Any new routes on the horizon?

Might AS/QX start RNO-OAK following WN's departure? Any chance AS could run a 738 to HNL? Does a 738 even have legs for that kind of trip?

And will AA always have a monopoly on ORD? I know UA used to do it also, in the mid-80's.

Also, any idea why WN announced RNO-ONT but never started it?


Thanks.
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iowaman
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RE: What's Next For RNO?

Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:28 pm

Quoting psa1011 (Thread starter):
Might AS/QX start RNO-OAK following WN's departure?

Seems reasonable.

Quoting psa1011 (Thread starter):
Any chance AS could run a 738 to HNL?

Not sure that AS would be interested, but I'm guessing G4 is highly interested. LAS-RNO on starts Feb. 1 twice weekly - I wouldn't be surprised if the 757s end up doing a LAS-RNO-HNL routing.

Quoting psa1011 (Thread starter):
And will AA always have a monopoly on ORD? I know UA used to do it also, in the mid-80's

I don't see UA restarting this any time soon. I doubt NK would be interested but it might be plausible. WN does run a daily MDW-RNO flight.

Quoting psa1011 (Thread starter):
Also, any idea why WN announced RNO-ONT but never started it?

It's actually operating as of now:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/S...8/history/20130123/2055Z/KRNO/KONT

I believe they cited low loads for dropping it later this year.
 
ANA787
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RE: What's Next For RNO?

Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:40 pm

I'm surprised AS hasn't restarted PDX-RNO yet.
 
JoePatroni707
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RE: What's Next For RNO?

Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:52 am

Too bad RNO does not get the attention. Not too many years back RNO was a all 757 station for AA (B check station). Really get historical, back in 88 or 89 AA had a DAILY scheduled 767 to ORD.
 
Wingtips56
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RE: What's Next For RNO?

Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:15 am

Part of the reason for the 757 at RNO was that due to the hot & high climate/elevation, the MD-80 was too restricted for the RNO-ORD run in Summer. For quite a while, they ran round-robin flights, ORD-RNO-SMF-ORD with the MD-80 afternoon trip. I think the 757 was bigger than the loads, but it could at least get off the ground.
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RWA380
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RE: What's Next For RNO?

Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:55 am

Quoting ANA787 (Reply 2):
I'm surprised AS hasn't restarted PDX-RNO yet

This is what I thought when someone earlier in the thread, asked if AS/Q!X would enter the RNO-OAK market. In the past RNO has been a well served market from PDX, now WN is the only non-stop 3x daily IIRC. I think Reno and Tahoe have not kept pace with Las Vegas, and more and more people are opting for Vegas. The fact that AS/QX can't justify even 1 n/s Q400 a day between PDX and RNO should help illustrate what I am saying.
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psa1011
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RE: What's Next For RNO?

Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:53 am

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 3):
Too bad rno does not get the attention. Not too many years back rno was a all 757 station for AA (B check station). Really get historical, back in 88 or 89 AA had a DAILY scheduled 767 to ORD.

I had no idea RNO ever had scheduled widebody service. In 89 or 90 I flew the AA 757 RNO-ORD (and returned on a same-plane ORD-SJC-RNO routing on an MD-80). Would have loved the 767.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: What's Next For RNO?

Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:59 am

Quoting iowaman (Reply 1):
Not sure that AS would be interested, but I'm guessing G4 is highly interested. LAS-RNO on starts Feb. 1 twice weekly - I wouldn't be surprised if the 757s end up doing a LAS-RNO-HNL routing.

I think the 757 would be a point in G4's favor as opposed to the 73G. RNO is already at about 4,400 feet MSL and has a mountain range between it and the ocean. A 73G could make it, but probably not with the kind of payload that a 752 could. HI is a cargo-heavy market (although I'm not sure how much cargo would be coming through RNO), but that could provide extra revenue for a 757 operator.

I just wonder: are there 180-200 people who want to fly from RNO to HNL (and specifically HNL, rather than another island) on enough of a frequency to merit the service? I do know that Hawaiians seem to love LAS (It's where they go on vacation...such an odd thing for me as a mainlander), so maybe RNO can market aggressively and aim for a part of the market?
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RE: What's Next For RNO?

Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:06 am

Aloha used to serve RNO-SNA-HNL and RNO-SAN-OGG, although the SAN service was suspended in 2005.
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FATFlyer
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RE: What's Next For RNO?

Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:16 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 7):
I just wonder: are there 180-200 people who want to fly from RNO to HNL (and specifically HNL, rather than another island) on enough of a frequency to merit the service? I do know that Hawaiians seem to love LAS (It's where they go on vacation...such an odd thing for me as a mainlander), so maybe RNO can market aggressively and aim for a part of the market?

Other than LAS-HNL (and the planned AZA-HNL), Allegiant has been operating Hawaii at only 1X/week or seasonal 2X/week frequency. G4 has also suspended some 1X/weekly service during slow periods such as suspending SMX-HNL for February.

Allegiant or someone else might be interested in RNO if the potential weekly passenger number over much of the year is high enough with some low period suspensions. But I would not expect more than weekly service.

The numbers I've seen on an annualized basis show the Reno MSA averages about 120 Reno residents as weekly visitors to Oahu. But someone's detailed analysis might uncover enough high period outbound/inbound traffic that combined with non-stop/low fare market stimulation and interisland transfers that RNO could support a weekly flight during much of the year (with low season suspensions).

For example, since Allegiant began service on FAT-HNL the number of Fresno MSA residents weekly to Oahu has increased by roughly 50% based on the Hawaii Tourism numbers I've seen. Additionally, since FAT-HNL began, travel by Fresno MSA residents to the other islands is up by over 20%.

Its hard to say if RNO might see enough increase to justify weekly service. We can only wait and see what decision someone might make.
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Jetsgo
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RE: What's Next For RNO?

Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:18 pm

I miss the QX Q400 to LAX, granted the market is served by AA, UA, and WN. I wouldn't mind seeing QX step in on the OAK route just like they did when WN dumped SJC. However, what I'd really like is for DL to open up either MSP or ATL. It seems I can never find a convenient connection through SLC, often leading me to fly another carrier or make the trek down to SMF.
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MountainFlyer
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RE: What's Next For RNO?

Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:43 pm

Quoting Jetsgo (Reply 10):
However, what I'd really like is for DL to open up either MSP or ATL.

Doesn't DL already have a seasonal MSP-RNO route, or is that gone for good?
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RE: What's Next For RNO?

Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:45 am

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 9):
The numbers I've seen on an annualized basis show the Reno MSA averages about 120 Reno residents as weekly visitors to Oahu.

How about the reverse? Oahu residents who visit RNO?
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FATFlyer
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RE: What's Next For RNO?

Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:01 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 12):
How about the reverse? Oahu residents who visit RNO?

I've been looking at the Hawaii Tourism Authority numbers which uses the arrival cards passengers fill out onboard. But HTA does not provide that reverse travel info.
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RE: What's Next For RNO?

Sat Jan 26, 2013 2:16 am

If I recall correctly, it was "big" news when DL reintroduced MSPRNO in 2011 for the first time since NW cut the route in 2006. It was once daily 738 at the time and did quite well with cargo. Whether or not it has since been moved to seasonal or cut altogether I don't know.

[Edited 2013-01-25 18:17:08]
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iowaman
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RE: What's Next For RNO?

Sat Jan 26, 2013 5:50 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 5):
. In the past RNO has been a well served market from PDX, now WN is the only non-stop 3x daily IIRC

It's actually down to 2x daily. One of the two flights each way runs LAX-RNO-PDX and PDX-RNO-LAX, so I wouldn't be surprised if there is quite a bit of through traffic since WN doesn't run LAX-PDX non-stop. One of the return flights does PDX-RNO-SAN which probably also carries a fair amount of "one-stopper" traffic.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 5):
I think Reno and Tahoe have not kept pace with Las Vegas, and more and more people are opting for Vegas. The fact that AS/QX can't justify even 1 n/s Q400 a day between PDX and RNO should help illustrate what I am saying.

Vegas and Reno just don't compare for tourism. RNO reminds me more of IFP than LAS from an attraction and casino standpoint. Vegas also has a much larger population base.

WN on PDX-RNO is showing a 65% load-factor (per flightaware beta, so take it FWIW). Nothing too impressive.

Quoting MountainFlyer (Reply 11):
Doesn't DL already have a seasonal MSP-RNO route, or is that gone for good?

Nothing in the schedules that is bookable so I'm guessing it's gone for good unfortunately.

A little history on the route - NW last flew it in 2006, with DL starting 1x daily 738 service July 1, 2011. Not sure how long it lasted but (apparently) not long.
 
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RE: What's Next For RNO?

Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:29 am

Quoting Jetsgo (Reply 10):
However, what I'd really like is for DL to open up either MSP or ATL.

Until relatively recently DL offered RNO-ATL and back seasonally on a 757, but I don't think they've offered it for the last couple of summers. I never took advantage of those flights because they ran counter to my needs: The plane left RNO for ATL in the morning and left ATL for RNO in the middle of the day. Had the scheduling been reversed I'd have gladly given it a try.
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RE: What's Next For RNO?

Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:43 am

Quoting iowaman (Reply 1):
It's actually operating as of now:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/S...8/history/20130123/2055Z/KRNO/KONT

I believe they cited low loads for dropping it later this year.

It's seasonal until mid-March.
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AF022
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RE: What's Next For RNO?

Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:14 pm

Is RNO too small for NYC direct service? I've been to the area and there seems to be lots of New Yorkers going to Tahoe.
 
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Jetsgo
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RE: What's Next For RNO?

Sun Jan 27, 2013 2:04 am

Quoting iowaman (Reply 15):
A little history on the route - NW last flew it in 2006, with DL starting 1x daily 738 service July 1, 2011.

See

Quoting Jetsgo (Reply 14):
DL reintroduced MSPRNO in 2011 for the first time since NW cut the route in 2006. It was once daily 738
Quoting TSS (Reply 16):
The plane left RNO for ATL in the morning and left ATL for RNO in the middle of the day.

Just what I'm looking for.   Hope to see it again.

Quoting AF022 (Reply 18):
Is RNO too small for NYC direct service?

I would assume so. It wouldn't exactly make sense for UA, AA, or DL to open the route over their other hubs and it's unlikely for B6 to open up shop. Getting out here only requires one connection on pretty much any airline.
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point2point
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RE: What's Next For RNO?

Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:11 pm

Below are the Q3-12 FAA numbers of air pax to/from Reno and the various Top 40 metro markets. Those in bold are currently those that I see as having nonstop service


1.....Los Angeles, CA………………..….1,080
2.....Las Vegas, NV………….……….….1,038
3.....Seattle, WA…………….......….....….508
4.....Phoenix, AZ……………......……..….394
5.....Portland, OR…………......…….…….394
6.....San Diego, CA…………………....….363
7.....Denver, CO……………………..........352
8.....San Francisco, CA………...……......303
9.....Salt Lake City, UT……..…………….292
10....Chicago, IL ……………..........…….257

11....New York, NY………….........……….240
12....Dallas, TX……….….…...........…….230
13....Washington, DC/VA……………...….224
14....Boston, MA...……………...........….158
15....Houston, TX………………........…….133
16....Minneapolis, MN ………….………….113
17....Atlanta, GA………….……........…….101
18....Philadelphia, PA ……………...……….85
19....Detroit, MI………………….............….82
20....St. Louis, MO……………........……….77
21.....Austin, TX…………………............….76
22....Kansas City, MO………...…………….73
23....Orlando, FL……………............………64
24....Milwaukee, WI…………..………….....61
25....Albuquerque, NM…………………..….60
26....San Antonio, TX…………………....….54
27....Tampa, FL……………............……….53
28....Miami, FL………….............………….52
29....Nashville, TN…………............……….50
30....Cleveland, OH……………….......…….50
31....Spokane, WA…………….......……….49
32....Charlotte, NC……………........……….48
33....Indianapolis, IN…………….....……….48
34....Pittsburgh, PA……………......……….47
35....Omaha, NE………………..........…….42
36....Hartford, CT……………..........……….40
37....New Orleans, LA…………...………….38
38....Columbus, OH……………..……….....38
39....Raleigh/Durham, NC…………….…….38
40....Oklahoma City, OK……………...…….38

All of Reno's Top 10 air city-pairs currently support nonstop service. New York City, Boston, Washington DC, and Houston are probably the top metro areas that could support some nonstop service to RNO, even if seasonal and less than daily. After that, pick-em as to what other metro areas may be able to sustain nonstop service here.

I do believe that Reno bills itself as the Worlds Biggest Little City and with that, along with gaming, live night shows, various events and other adult entertainment forms, as well as being close to number of ski resorts for wintertime, and Lake Tahoe as a year-round resort area, Reno maybe could do more to get a lot more folks out there to experience and enjoy all that the area has to offer. I've personally thought of Reno as Alpine Las Vegas, but I sort of feel that the folks of Reno aren't quite promoting this along these lines, and I guess a lot of folks around the country and world don't quite see it that way either.

At any rate, all the best to RNO and area, and that convenient air service is available there for all.

 
 
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RWA380
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RE: What's Next For RNO?

Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:59 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 12):

How about the reverse? Oahu residents who visit RNO?

This would be the revenue train, but as stated above RNO is so, not Vegas, that I doubt hard working Hawaiian travellers will want to spend the same kind of money for Reno over Las Vegas for their one or twice a year vacation. Reno would have to be much cheaper, and that's not going to be profitable.
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