kkephart13
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DL Restarting ATL-ONT

Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:53 pm

Service restarts 6/10 with a daily 738. Good to see ONT getting more service after losing so much.
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apodino
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RE: DL Restarting ATL-ONT

Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:16 pm

Wow...some good news for ONT for once and an airport that desperately needs it too.
 
SANFan
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RE: DL Restarting ATL-ONT

Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:21 pm

Is this just a seasonal (summer) re-start or is it permanent? In any case, I too am happy to see something positive happening at ONT for a change!

bb
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: DL Restarting ATL-ONT

Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:40 pm

Awesome! They already fly to the city seems like a good move even if its only worth it seasonally
 
SANMAN66
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RE: DL Restarting ATL-ONT

Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:41 pm

Quoting kkephart13 (Thread starter):
Service restarts 6/10 with a daily 738.

This was a popular route at one time. During the mid 80s, Eastern had a SAN-ONT-ATL flight
on a 757. About an hour after that flight landed in ONT from SAN, Delta stopped in ONT from
SAN with a 762. That flight also continued to ATL.
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LAXintl
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RE: DL Restarting ATL-ONT

Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:48 pm

Filling the flight is not the issue, DL always had decent loads, but instead its a matter of the revenue they can get.
As one can imagine ONT will not drive the same premiums one can generate over at LAX due to the nature of its traffic mix.


Btw - this is not the sole new(resumed) route at ONT this year. SWA brought ONT-RNO back two weeks ago.
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premobrimo
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RE: DL Restarting ATL-ONT

Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:22 pm

I'm waiting for DL to start MSP-ONT. NW had this route for so long
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MAH4546
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RE: DL Restarting ATL-ONT

Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:30 pm

Seasonal for approximately nine weeks.
a.
 
KC135Hydraulics
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RE: DL Restarting ATL-ONT

Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:46 pm

Loved the Song 757s a few years ago flying to Ontario. That's the closest commercial airport to me so I use it a lot.
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fanoftristars
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RE: DL Restarting ATL-ONT

Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:16 pm

We used to have 757 service SLC-ONT back in the late 90s. now just CRJs  
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fjnovak1
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RE: DL Restarting ATL-ONT

Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:23 pm

As recently as 2007 ONT had MD-90 and 737-800's to SLC, I know because I flew on a few.
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san747
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RE: DL Restarting ATL-ONT

Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:39 pm

In addition, ATL-ONT had a daily 767-300 on the route until about 2005. Either way, good news for ONT, glad to see it back!
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Beardown91737
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RE: DL Restarting ATL-ONT

Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:51 pm

Well for the few months it lasts, it will be a positive thing to be able to get to Europe, South America, and even Dubai, Lagos, and Johannesburg with just one connection. It also opens up over 100 destinations in the Eastern US which DL just can't service from SLC.

There still is one mainline SLC but I don't know if it is daily. It looks like there will be 2 mainline for summer/fall.

The WN service to RNO is also seasonal and ends mid-March.
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kkephart13
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RE: DL Restarting ATL-ONT

Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:01 pm

Quoting fanoftristars (Reply 9):
We used to have 757 service SLC-ONT back in the late 90s. now just CRJs

SLC-ONT has 1 738 daily. The other 3 are mixtures of CRJ's.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 7):
Seasonal for approximately nine weeks.

I Saw that, thats the only downside. i was looking at flights from PIT-ONT in October for a family function, and its all PIT-ATL-SLC-ONT. Sucks....
EVERYTHING i type on here, is the opinion of ME and not of any airline/company.
 
AWACSooner
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RE: DL Restarting ATL-ONT

Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:32 pm

Flew ONT-ATL on a 762 back in March of 05...full red-eye flight. Glad to see some resuscitation of the Inland Empire air traffic
 
MDW22L31C
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RE: DL Restarting ATL-ONT

Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:46 pm

It would be great see UA re-start ONT-ORD.
 
KC135Hydraulics
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RE: DL Restarting ATL-ONT

Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:59 pm

Ontario really is an excellent alternative to LAX. I still don't understand why it has been dying. Also, ontario's parking lot situation is excellent. They also have a cell phone waiting lot!
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mhkansan
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RE: DL Restarting ATL-ONT

Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:08 am

Quoting MDW22L31C (Reply 15):
It would be great see UA re-start ONT-ORD.

I wonder if AA would consider it with the E175s? I believe AA used to do it with an 80 or perhaps a fokker.
 
kkephart13
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RE: DL Restarting ATL-ONT

Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:23 am

Quoting KC135Hydraulics (Reply 16):
Ontario really is an excellent alternative to LAX. I still don't understand why it has been dying. Also, ontario's parking lot situation is excellent. They also have a cell phone waiting lot!

Your right with the parking situation, but its killer expensive. The lots across the terminal are like 20+ a day...
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KC135Hydraulics
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RE: DL Restarting ATL-ONT

Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:32 am

Quoting kkephart13 (Reply 18):

Yes but long term parking is only $8/ day and it has a shuttle. Better still the wife drops me off and picks me up and that costs $0/day. Ontario simply rocks.
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DTWLAX
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RE: DL Restarting ATL-ONT

Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:58 am

Quoting KC135Hydraulics (Reply 16):
Ontario really is an excellent alternative to LAX. I still don't understand why it has been dying. Also, ontario's parking lot situation is excellent. They also have a cell phone waiting lot!

Excellent alternative for people from the Inland Empire. But with LAX and SNA, ONT cannot compete.
 
SurfandSnow
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RE: DL Restarting ATL-ONT

Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:14 am

Wow, I guess DL's ATL-ONT route actually did go [summer] seasonal; rather than getting cut entirely. Hopefully the return of this, and WN's recent addition of seasonal ONT-RNO, are signs that things are starting to get better - or at the very least, not continuing to get worse - in the Inland Empire. In fact, this recent article indeed states that the area is slowly but steadily getting better after its calamitous economic decline from the housing crisis and recession:

http://www.mydesert.com/article/2013...s-economy-slowly-creating-new-jobs

ONT is a beautiful facility, and truly the only existing major commercial airport in Greater Los Angeles that can support much in the way of future growth. Whilst fellow secondary area airport BUR continues its precipitous decline, it seems ONT's fortunes have finally begun to improve. It doesn't seem like AS has any interest in offering ONT-Hawaii service, but I wonder if WN will consider it. I also wonder if Mexicans LCCs, particularly WN's transborder partner Y4, have looked at serving this airport, or if ULCCs like F9 and/or NK might be interested. Hopefully the worst is behind ONT and the future is bright: regardless of who manages/controls the airport!
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kkephart13
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RE: DL Restarting ATL-ONT

Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:24 am

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 21):
Wow, I guess DL's ATL-ONT route actually did go [summer] seasonal; rather than getting cut entirely. Hopefully the return of this, and WN's recent addition of seasonal ONT-RNO, are signs that things are starting to get better - or at the very least, not continuing to get worse - in the Inland Empire. In fact, this recent article indeed states that the area is slowly but steadily getting better after its calamitous economic decline from the housing crisis and recession:

Your right. Hopefully they go from seasonal to year round service.

However wasnt there talk at one point that LAWA was going to consolidate everyone over to T-4 and close T-2??
EVERYTHING i type on here, is the opinion of ME and not of any airline/company.
 
N1120A
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RE: DL Restarting ATL-ONT

Sat Jan 26, 2013 5:53 pm

On a side note to this subject, I don't get why LAWA gets so much flak for ONT's performance. LAWA has invested millions upon millions and built a really lovely new terminal complex, in the hopes of driving traffic. During the heady 90s and early Aughts, ONT's traffic was doing great. The combination of the severe economic hit the Inland Empire has taken, along with the new realities for airlines in the last 12 years, means that ONT isn't going anywhere from where it is until the economic structure around it changes.

Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 4):
This was a popular route at one time. During the mid 80s, Eastern had a SAN-ONT-ATL flight on a 757. About an hour after that flight landed in ONT from SAN, Delta stopped in ONT from
SAN with a 762. That flight also continued to ATL.

DL had 767s on ATL-ONT through into the middle of the last decade, at least. Indeed, they used to use the only jetway at ONT for it when the old terminals were still in use.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 5):
As one can imagine ONT will not drive the same premiums one can generate over at LAX due to the nature of its traffic mix.

Absolutely. Its discount alternative pull from SAN, SNA and BUR, and local traffic that tends to be lower yield.

Quoting KC135Hydraulics (Reply 16):
Ontario really is an excellent alternative to LAX.

For you, perhaps. And it is a lovely airport, that LAWA built, though I miss the stained glass window from the old terminals.

For much of the area, ONT is as isolated or even more isolated than SNA - which is surrounded by wealthy people and a good number of businesses. Most of the higher yield traffic that look at alternatives to LAX will go to SNA, BUR or even SBA.

Quoting KC135Hydraulics (Reply 16):
I still don't understand why it has been dying.

Not enough money in the area to drive yields. And its far.

Quoting dtwlax (Reply 20):
Excellent alternative for people from the Inland Empire. But with LAX and SNA, ONT cannot compete.

Don't forget BUR, which is close to a lot of an area that would consider ONT an alternative to LAX. Far better yield mix at BUR.

Quoting kkephart13 (Reply 22):
However wasnt there talk at one point that LAWA was going to consolidate everyone over to T-4 and close T-2??

That wouldn't make a ton of sense, as LAWA's master plan includes 2 additional terminals if ONT can ever get the traffic. Makes no sense to mothball a perfectly usable building.
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psa1011
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RE: DL Restarting ATL-ONT

Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:06 pm

Any chance of AS starting ONT-HNL/OGG? DL could codeshare.
 
N1120A
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RE: DL Restarting ATL-ONT

Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:22 pm

Quoting psa1011 (Reply 24):
Any chance of AS starting ONT-HNL/OGG? DL could codeshare.

Why, when DL has LAX service?
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
apodino
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RE: DL Restarting ATL-ONT

Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:31 pm

Quoting mhkansan (Reply 17):
Quoting MDW22L31C (Reply 15):
It would be great see UA re-start ONT-ORD.

I wonder if AA would consider it with the E175s? I believe AA used to do it with an 80 or perhaps a fokker.

Both AA and UA have operated the route in the past. Back in 1985 when I was just a kid we went from BOS-ONT on AA via ORD, and I remember getting stuck in ground traffic after landing in ORD. The taxi in was so bad we had to sprint from K to H to make our connection. We did luckily, but our bags didn't. I believe it was on an MD-80 back then. Can't remember if UA ran this with a 727 or a 737 though.
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: DL Restarting ATL-ONT

Sat Jan 26, 2013 10:24 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 25):
Quoting psa1011 (Reply 24):
Any chance of AS starting ONT-HNL/OGG? DL could codeshare.

Why, when DL has LAX service?

So. DL has SEA-HNL service and so does AS. DL has (or did have) SFO-HNL but that didn't stop AS from adding OAK and SJC to Hawaii.

ONT is quite a bit away from LAX. Not everyone wants to drive and pay to park when there is an airport nearby. That area supports a large population base. I think AS could be successful with ONT-Hawaii.
 
deltal1011man
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RE: DL Restarting ATL-ONT

Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:16 am

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 27):
DL has (or did have) SFO-HNL but that didn't stop AS from adding OAK and SJC to Hawaii.

Delta still has 1 flight between SFO-HNL....think its a 752
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peanuts
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RE: DL Restarting ATL-ONT

Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:26 am

Quoting kkephart13 (Thread starter):
Service restarts 6/10 with a daily 738.

Is it really a "restart"? Maybe just consider it a on/off again seasonal flight? I was on DL ONT-ATL last December.
 
deltal1011man
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RE: DL Restarting ATL-ONT

Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:44 am

Quoting peanuts (Reply 29):

Is it really a "restart"? Maybe just consider it a on/off again seasonal flight? I was on DL ONT-ATL last December.

pretty much this. It was always seasonal.

Of course, I can think of tons of times that routes have gone "seasonal" to never come back, with any airline.
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Beardown91737
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RE: DL Restarting ATL-ONT

Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:56 am

Quoting apodino (Reply 26):
Can't remember if UA ran this with a 727 or a 737 though.

ORD-ONT was 4x 733, or sometimes 3x 733 and 1x 722. I remember this being 5x a day in the mid 1990s (at a time when AA also flew 4-5x and WN 1x to MDW), but I can't find anything to back that up.

Quoting kkephart13 (Reply 22):
However wasnt there talk at one point that LAWA was going to consolidate everyone over to T-4 and close T-2??

LAWA proposed this in 2009 or maybe early 2010, but the airlines did not want to because they thought that it would cost more to move out of T2 and then back in when the recession ended. Maybe they only thought the recession would last a few months. Additionally, there would have been UA, DL, and CO moving, and there wasn't ticket counter space in T4 for all of them to squeeze in with WN, US, and AA.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 23):
LAWA's master plan includes 2 additional terminals

Those aren't on anyone's radar anymore.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 23):
Don't forget BUR, which is close to a lot of an area that would consider ONT an alternative to LAX. Far better yield mix at BUR.

Deciding between BUR and ONT would depend on where you live or work. They are 50 miles apart. ONT is the busier airport so BUR offers little for anyone that lives closer to ONT, and passengers don't care about the yield.
135 hrs PIC (mostly PA-28) - not current. Landings at MDW, PIA, JAN.
 
olddominion727
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RE: DL Restarting ATL-ONT

Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:23 pm

AA flew ONT-JFK w/757 to keep b6 at bay, also DFW-ONT 757 in 93, SJC & ORD with MD80, SMF & OAK with 732 after they bought AirCal.
 
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RWA380
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RE: DL Restarting ATL-ONT

Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:43 pm

Quoting KC135Hydraulics (Reply 16):
Ontario really is an excellent alternative to LAX. I still don't understand why it has been dying.

If there were numerous options from ONT, I think people would eventually use them again, but I think it's really a ketch 22.

Quoting psa1011 (Reply 24):
Any chance of AS starting ONT-HNL/OGG? DL could codeshare

I think if AS had though it to be a viable market, they would be operating flights by now. I see ONT as a good option for G4 to HNL and/or OGG. It's too bad that ONT isn't really a viable alternate to the touristy area of Los Angeles, and is hard to market it as such. Otherwise I'd think high density charters from Europe and Asia with 2-3 x weekly schedule on 744's would work. If that was the case, I'd speculate we could have a ULCC with a decent-significant presence as well. It'll come back.
Next Flights: PDX-HNL-OGG-LIH-PDX On AS, WP & HA
 
LAXintl
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RE: DL Restarting ATL-ONT

Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:52 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 27):
ONT is quite a bit away from LAX. Not everyone wants to drive and pay to park when there is an airport nearby. That area supports a large population base. I think AS could be successful with ONT-Hawaii.

It been tried and failed about 6 times.

Way back early 1980s UA tried with its DC-8-70s.

Then in the 1990s ATA on L-1011s.

Then in 2003 Hawaiian tried ONT and only lasted 2-years.

Aloha also almost moved in, but instead settled on SNA and BUR.

And finally ATA tried it again with a daily 737 in cooperation with Southwest in 2006. That also only lasted 1-year

Considering all these were in better economically booming times for the inland empire, I'm sure things would be even worse today.

Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 31):
LAWA proposed this in 2009 or maybe early 2010, but the airlines did not want to because they thought that it would cost more to move out of T2 and then back in when the recession ended.

  

In response to way to reduce per passenger cost at ONT, LAWA proposed consolidating all operations under a single roof.

There would have been substantial savings (~20%) by using a single terminal. Everything from TSA cost, to utility charges would have seen reductions without using the second terminal.

At the time airlines came out against the proposal. In hindsight it would probably have been a good action as enplanement have continued to decline.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: DL Restarting ATL-ONT

Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:22 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 34):
Way back early 1980s UA tried with its DC-8-70s.

Yeah, I remember that. I think they tried it in the late 1970s with DC-8-50s also, around the time UA added SJC and OAK-HNL on DC-8-50s.

HA couldn't make it work with 767s, but AS might make it work with 738s. They should try it.
 
LAXintl
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RE: DL Restarting ATL-ONT

Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:53 am

ATA ran 738s. Even with the help of Southwest connections, and tour packages the route flopped for them in a year.

I would not underestimate the economic realities of the Inland Empire and its negative effects on disposable consumer spending for air travel. No need to AS to look there. If they want a SoCal airport to do Hawaii, the economics would be much more compelling at SNA or BUR.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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RWA380
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RE: DL Restarting ATL-ONT

Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:23 am

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 35):
HA couldn't make it work with 767s

I thought it was on the DC-10's....

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 36):
No need to AS to look there. If they want a SoCal airport to do Hawaii, the economics would be much more compelling at SNA or BUR.

Except the 737-800 couldn't do it economically from either field. Last time I took a 738 to Hawaii, we took a big long take off roll, at sea level and in 40 degree temps, the 738 needs a long run to get off the ground full with people, cargo & fuel.
Next Flights: PDX-HNL-OGG-LIH-PDX On AS, WP & HA
 
LAXintl
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RE: DL Restarting ATL-ONT

Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:43 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 37):
I thought it was on the DC-10's....

767

Its mentioned in their press release about the added ONT-LAS tag.
http://investor.hawaiianairlines.com...l-newsArticle&ID=378158&highlight=

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 37):
Except the 737-800 couldn't do it economically from either field. Last time I took a 738 to Hawaii, we took a big long take off roll, at sea level and in 40 degree temps, the 738 needs a long run to get off the ground full with people, cargo & fuel.

Who said -800?
If AS really wants a LA basin launch board such as SNA or BUR, they can invest in ETOPS the -700 fleet.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: DL Restarting ATL-ONT

Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:09 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 38):
Who said -800?
If AS really wants a LA basin launch board such as SNA or BUR, they can invest in ETOPS the -700 fleet.

They can, but apparently AS considered it and made a business decision not to do. I think SNA-Hawaii would be a good route for AS if they had the equipment for it.

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