ely747
Topic Author
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CSA To Deploy A333 On Moscow Route

Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:21 am

I'm quite surprised to see that Czech Airline is going to be flying an A333 on PRG - SVO route in S13. If I'm not mistaken among all the EU carriers it's only BA who serves Moscow flights on WD frames. What is behind OK's confidence to fill this aircraft? After all, it's a short haul segment. Also interesting to note increased frequencies to MXP, DUS or TXL just to name a few. Is OK's on board product so competitive to match LH ?


source:
http://airlineroute.net/2013/01/25/ok-s13update1/



[Edited 2013-01-26 23:41:01]
 
gr09
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RE: CSA To Deploy A333 On Moscow Route

Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:07 am

They are planning to fly it 2x weekly to ICN and they have no clue what to do with it for the rest of the week. So they picked SVO and SVX. Terrible planning IMHO and I can't imagine this will make any profits. One (or two?) frame subfleet...

The OK's on board product is comparable to LH's short haul, the meals may be even better in J.
 
ely747
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RE: CSA To Deploy A333 On Moscow Route

Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:07 am

Quoting gr09 (Reply 1):



You answered the question I had "has CSA intended to tap in to Berlin / Dusseldorf - Moscow market?" The answer is NO. Is the A333 part of the fleet yet? If not, where is it coming from ? Had no joy finding this info on the official website. 2x weekly service to ICN, is this an addition to already operating KE flights? I assume, the PRG - ICN route would be mostly fuelled by the presence of S.Korean auto makers in the region.

[Edited 2013-01-27 01:09:33]
 
gr09
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RE: CSA To Deploy A333 On Moscow Route

Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:36 am

The flights are supposed to be in cooperation with KE (codeshare + some additional CSA's codeshare on connecting flights from ICN) so we can speculate it will be an old KE's metal.

Look up this thread: Czech Airlines To Lease An A330 (by gr09 Dec 5 2012 in Civil Aviation)
 
LJ
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Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: CSA To Deploy A333 On Moscow Route

Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:10 pm

Quoting gr09 (Reply 1):
They are planning to fly it 2x weekly to ICN and they have no clue what to do with it for the rest of the week. So they picked SVO and SVX. Terrible planning IMHO and I can't imagine this will make any profits. One (or two?) frame subfleet...

As mentioned in the other thread, OK only has the A330 available on three full days of the week (Wednesday - Friday) and less than half a day on both Tuesday and Saturday. The schedule for the A330 make effective use of the aircradt and to be honest SVO - PRG is a busy route (10 dailies in S13).
 
gr09
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RE: CSA To Deploy A333 On Moscow Route

Sun Jan 27, 2013 1:37 pm

Quoting LJ (Reply 4):
The schedule for the A330 make effective use of the aircradt and to be honest SVO - PRG is a busy route (10 dailies in S13).

I admit that Moscow is a very good and money making route for CSA but increasing capacity almost 2x on those particular flights? I'm no expert but that seems like quite a challenge. Even if they fill the seats, they would also have to fill the belly to make it profitable unless I'm missing something.
 
ely747
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RE: CSA To Deploy A333 On Moscow Route

Sun Jan 27, 2013 2:05 pm

This makes me think the Czech Republic is a very popular destination for many Russians who generally like to splash out. That's why BA upgaged Moscow flights to 747 and 767 respectively making it shortest long haul service. So I'm quite positive about OK filing the front of A333. The market from Russia end seems to be there.

Having read the previous thread, I'm still trying o work out what makes PRG - INC route so attractive. Yes, there is quite significant trade going between the two counties but it's more to it. I guess PRG has got some advantage over AMS or CDG in terms of distance flown. So it would make a perfect sense for KE to drop a certain volume of pax in PRG and fly them either to Paris or Amsterdam on narrow bodies.

[Edited 2013-01-27 06:18:04]
 
factsonly
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RE: CSA To Deploy A333 On Moscow Route

Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:10 pm

Quoting ely747 (Reply 6):
I guess PRG has got some advantage over AMS or CDG in terms of distance flown. So it would make a perfect sense for KE to drop a certain volume of pax in PRG and fly them either to Paris or Amsterdam on narrow bodies.

I doubt that this is the case.

KE has just commenced a SKYTEAM codeshare with KLM on ICN-AMS-ICN, which raises KE's frequency on this route from 3x/week to daily. KE also codeshares on KL beyond AMS to GVA, BCN, CPH.

While KE operates ICN-CDG 9x/week with its own metal and codeshares on the daily AF flight from ICN as well, for a total of 16 weekly connections.

PRG is much more likely to give KE connections on OK to other East/Central European cities.
 
LJ
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RE: CSA To Deploy A333 On Moscow Route

Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:15 pm

Quoting gr09 (Reply 5):
admit that Moscow is a very good and money making route for CSA but increasing capacity almost 2x on those particular flights?

They increased capacity on 4 weekly flights only. It's probably the best route to put it on (moreover as hopefully the seating is much better).


Quoting gr09 (Reply 5):
Even if they fill the seats, they would also have to fill the belly to make it profitable unless I'm missing something.

At least they can transport more (and larger) cargo between PRG and SVO. Thus it may open opportunity for Czech and/or Russian business (though it's only 4 weekly flights).

BTW whilst the SVX flights and OK0898 on Tuesday is already in the Skyteam timetable, I don't see OK0894 as an A333 yet (will probably adjusted shortly).
 
MAH4546
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RE: CSA To Deploy A333 On Moscow Route

Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:43 pm

What a joke. If OK is serious about building up long haul, then send it long haul. Send it to New York, Miami or Colombo, all extremely popular with Czechs.
a.
 
Fabo
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RE: CSA To Deploy A333 On Moscow Route

Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:07 am

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 9):
If OK is serious about building up long haul, then send it long haul.

Well this is where you fail, the premise is false. OK is not serious about building longhaul...  
The light at the end of tunnel turn out to be a lighted sing saying NO EXIT
 
Viscount724
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RE: CSA To Deploy A333 On Moscow Route

Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:40 am

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 9):
What a joke. If OK is serious about building up long haul, then send it long haul. Send it to New York, Miami or Colombo, all extremely popular with Czechs.

The lowest round trip fares for nonstop services PRG-SVO for some random dates are roughly half (or slightly more) the lowest PRG-MIA one-stop connecting fares for the same dates.

So if you can fill an A330 on a 2.5 hour sector 4 x week at a fare that's more than half what you would get for a 10 or 11 hour nonstop 2 x week (probably all you could operate longhaul between the PRG-ICN rotations) in a highly competitive market with multiple daily connecting options like PRG-MIA, it may generate more revenue with lower operating costs, and without the development and marketing costs of starting a completely new route.
 
Boeing744
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RE: CSA To Deploy A333 On Moscow Route

Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:09 am

The Wikipedia page for CSA claims that the A333 will be in an all-Y configuration with 440 seats. This seems ridiculous... Is it correct?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czech_Airlines#Fleet
 
gr09
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RE: CSA To Deploy A333 On Moscow Route

Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:42 am

Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 12):
Is it correct?

No it's not
 
LJ
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RE: CSA To Deploy A333 On Moscow Route

Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:00 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 11):

So if you can fill an A330 on a 2.5 hour sector 4 x week at a fare that's more than half what you would get for a 10 or 11 hour nonstop 2 x week

Given the fact that the plane arrives in PRG at 16:50 on Tuesday and has to be in PRG Saturday morning, two long hauls can be a challenge (unless you accept unattractive schedules). The A330 can now make 14 flights between Tuesday evening and Saturday morning. Moreover pax to SVX will probably be glad to get a long haul product (though nothing is known about the product).

Tuesday
ICN dep 12:45 PRG arr 16:50
PRG dep 23:20 SVO arr 04:20 +1

Wednesday
SVO dep 05:30 PRG arr 06:15
PRG dep 11:00 SVO arr 5:40
SVO dep 17:00 PRG arr 17:55
PRG dep 19:45 SVX arr 04:10 +1

Thursday + Friday
SVX dep 05:25 PRG arr 06:05
PRG dep 11:00 SVO arr 5:40
SVO dep 17:00 PRG arr 17:55
PRG dep 19:45 SVX arr 04:10 +1

Saturday
SVX dep 05:25 PRG arr 06:05
PRG dep 12:55 ICN arr 15:40 +1

Sunday
ICN dep 12:45 PRG arr 16:50
PRG dep 18:30 ICN arr 11:15 +1

Will be a very busy A330-300.
 
davidho1985
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RE: CSA To Deploy A333 On Moscow Route

Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:42 pm

Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 12):

No point to have a A333 with 440 seats flying between PRG and ICN.
Rumors said that the aircaft will be operated by KE (under we-lease arrangement),
such arrangement is made to allow KE to increase the frequency of PRG ICN
(KE is not allowed to further increase their frequency)