LaoLao
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IST Plans The World's Biggest Airport: 150 Mio Pax

Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:16 am

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/tr...-plans-worlds-biggest-airport.html

If this materializes, the impact on European aviation can be immense.
Facilitated by the extended range of the MAX and the NEO, TK can connect nearly every secondary airports in Europe with all cities in Africa, Middle East and Asia using narrow bodies on a one-stop basis. Growth opportunities for TK are huge.
Let's see if IST or BER opens first. IST should open 2017!

[Edited 2013-01-28 00:41:16]

[Edited 2013-01-28 00:41:50]
 
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TK787
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RE: IST Plans The World's Biggest Airport: 150 Mio Pax

Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:27 am

Link not working.

IST or BER, hmmmm. Though one but I would go with BER on this one.
Also; if it opens by 2017 the new Istanbul airport will have a capacity of 90mil pax a year. Future plans to grow all the way up to 150M pax a year with 6 runways. That might take another decade or longer.
By then I am sure UAE or China will have lot bigger airports.
 
LoneStarMike
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RE: IST Plans The World's Biggest Airport: 150 Mio Pax

Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:35 am

Quoting TK787 (Reply 1):
Link not working.

Try this link

LoneStarMike
 
leftyboarder
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RE: IST Plans The World's Biggest Airport: 150 Mio Pax

Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:40 am

We have this (rather blurry) animation of how it might look eventually:

http://zaman.com.tr/multimedia_getGa...onId=1&type=video&galleryId=133116
 
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EK413
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RE: IST Plans The World's Biggest Airport: 150 Mio Pax

Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:46 am

The rate BER continue to delay the opening I'll put my money on IST...

EK413
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LaoLao
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RE: IST Plans The World's Biggest Airport: 150 Mio Pax

Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:48 am

looks great!
Is there already a location for that behemoth?
 
leftyboarder
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RE: IST Plans The World's Biggest Airport: 150 Mio Pax

Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:14 am

Yup.. Very controversial location (the top left one):

http://img.haberler.com/haber/165/is...ak-3-havalimani-4270165_2744_o.jpg
 
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RWA380
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RE: IST Plans The World's Biggest Airport: 150 Mio Pax

Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:49 am

For thousands of years this place has been the crossroads of the world, why should that change? Geography was the reason it started being that crossroads, and that is why it works today still. IST has always been amazing, still is.  
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PanHAM
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RE: IST Plans The World's Biggest Airport: 150 Mio Pax

Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:58 am

Very ambitious, in 4 years time. if they get the first stage with one runway and terminals for 30 mio pax completed in that time would be good already.

Also, road and rail a ccess needs a bridge on the eastern part of the Bosporous. What will happen to the 2 present airport?

As to the famous BER question, OK, I gamble and put me money on BER
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flylonghaul
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RE: IST Plans The World's Biggest Airport: 150 Mio Pax

Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:23 am

The design looks great! And that will really give TK the room to expand dramatically.

2017 does seem a little on the ambitious side though.
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leftyboarder
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RE: IST Plans The World's Biggest Airport: 150 Mio Pax

Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:24 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 8):
Also, road and rail a ccess needs a bridge on the eastern part of the Bosporous. What will happen to the 2 present airport?

The 3rd bridge is already in preliminary works - will probably be completed before the airport itself. As for the other airports, IST will close for scheduled commercial traffic and become a charter / GA airport, SAW will remain.
 
1400mph
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RE: IST Plans The World's Biggest Airport: 150 Mio Pax

Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:40 am

The mind boggles.

Will IST and DXB and therefore TK and EK become future bitter rivals ?

Is the market big enough to support projected expansion plans of both airlines ?
 
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EK413
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RE: IST Plans The World's Biggest Airport: 150 Mio Pax

Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:49 am

I've stumbled across the details of the construction phases...

1st phase: 70,00,000 PAX
-2 parallel runways + 1 cross runway
-distance between both parallel runways will be 2,300m
-Terminal: 1,000,000 m²
-car parks: 25,140
-~2019

2nd phase: 90,000,000 (+20,000,000)
-~2021
-3rd parallel runway
-new terminal with a capacity of 20,000,000
-underground connection between both terminals

3rd phase: 120,000,000 (+30,000,000)
-~2023
-new terminal with a capacity of 30,000,000
-4th parallel runway

4thh phase: 150,0000,000 (+30,000,000)
-~ 2025
-new terminal with a capacity of 30,000,000
-5th parallel runway

The city prefered the Silivri region (south of Istanbul. Marmara Sea), butt the Architects etc prefered the northern part / black sea.

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PanHAM
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RE: IST Plans The World's Biggest Airport: 150 Mio Pax

Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:12 am

Over ambitious

adding 20/30/30 Mio capacity in leaps of only 2 years is by far exceeding realistic potential traffic growth. From a financial point of view, this would be a waste of money as these terminals and runways would need to be financed without the yield from the traffic volume they are designed for. Plus maintenance and whatever goes along with having buildings that needs servicing.
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EPA001
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RE: IST Plans The World's Biggest Airport: 150 Mio Pax

Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:59 pm

Quoting 1400mph (Reply 12):
Will IST and DXB and therefore TK and EK become future bitter rivals ?

That is what I am thinking as well. This new airport is aiming not only at the traditional large Western-European hubs, but is also aiming at winning passengers from Dubai, Abu Dhabi and Qatar.

That competition will be interesting. But contrary to those airports IST is already a very large, and still rapidly expanding metropolis. And the Turkish economy and population are also on the rise. That they would need a new airport soon is no news to anybody. Now the question is, will they also buy a large fleet of A380's as EK had done?  .

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 14):
Over ambitious

Maybe, but that is what we (or almost all of us) were thinking when we heard about the upcoming carriers out of the Middle East. And 20 years before them SQ did the same, so I am cautious to qualify their plans as over ambitious. They might be, but could just as easy imho become reality in the 2020-2030 time-frame.
 
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RE: IST Plans The World's Biggest Airport: 150 Mio Pax

Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:38 pm

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 15):
That is what I am thinking as well. This new airport is aiming not only at the traditional large Western-European hubs, but is also aiming at winning passengers from Dubai, Abu Dhabi and Qatar.

IST is a much better connection point from Europe not only to Africa but also Asia from the whole of Europe and the United-States/Canada.

Apart from Asia-Africa i'm struggling to see where DXB is more competitive than IST!
 
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RE: IST Plans The World's Biggest Airport: 150 Mio Pax

Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:46 pm

Quoting Vinniewinnie (Reply 17):
Apart from Asia-Africa i'm struggling to see where DXB is more competitive than IST!

In fact, China to West Africa is shorter via IST.

via DXB
PEK-ABJ 6770 nm
PEK-DKR 7280 nm

via IST
PEK-ABJ 6596 nm
PEK-DKR 6701 nm
 
cloudyapple
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RE: IST Plans The World's Biggest Airport: 150 Mio Pax

Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:19 pm

There's a ~100mppa "limit" for single airports, beyond which ATC, pax flow, baggage, APM, CIQ and other support services all become very difficult. The MCT will start to drift up beyond what'll be required for a hub airport. I'm very sceptical about achieving 150mppa with a reasonable level of service.
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rampart
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RE: IST Plans The World's Biggest Airport: 150 Mio Pax

Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:29 pm

Istanbul is still bidding for the 2020 Summer Olympics. I think they have a good shot at getting it, and this airport would be a boon. But they'd need to start soon.

Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 3):
We have this (rather blurry) animation of how it might look eventually:

I dig the music!  

The place is CAVERNOUS, if the illustrations are accurate. I know it wants to be able to handle huge volumes of passengers, but the over-ample spaces are unmanageable for walking. The entry sidewalk alone is as wide a runway. Why?

Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 6):
Yup.. Very controversial location (the top left one):

Can you go into details as to why? I'm curious, and know next to nothing about Istanbul.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 7):

For thousands of years this place has been the crossroads of the world, why should that change? Geography was the reason it started being that crossroads, and that is why it works today still. IST has always been amazing, still is.

Definitely. I was once playing with Great Circle Mapper. Given an 8000nm range, the only thing IST misses, just barely, is eastern Australia and New Zealand. On the same 8000nm range, DXB only misses western South America. And for good measure, TLV gets everything except New Zealand, but that's a different can of worms.

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cmf
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RE: IST Plans The World's Biggest Airport: 150 Mio Pax

Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:47 pm

Quoting cloudyapple (Reply 19):
There's a ~100mppa "limit" for single airports, beyond which ATC, pax flow, baggage, APM, CIQ and other support services all become very difficult.

What makes it so much more difficult at that point? To me it seems about planning for it from the beginning. Terminals between runways. Good communication between terminals.
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LAXintl
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RE: IST Plans The World's Biggest Airport: 150 Mio Pax

Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:40 pm

This has been covered in the Turkish Aviation threads for a few months now as the lead up the the tender.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 7):
For thousands of years this place has been the crossroads of the world, why should that change? Geography was the reason it started being that crossroads, and that is why it works today still. IST has always been amazing, still is.

  .

As they say, location, location, location.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 8):
What will happen to the 2 present airport?

IST will be limited to charter, cargo and training flights, along with GA traffic and the maintenance facilities.
The municipality is looking to redevelop property including establishment of fair grounds, and convention center facilities.

SAW on the Asian side continues to grow on its own setting records each year. Work on the added runway will begin there soon also.

Quoting flylonghaul (Reply 10):
And that will really give TK the room to expand dramatically.

THY will have exclusive use of a terminal to operate under a single roof to facilititate transfers.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 13):
I've stumbled across the details of the construction phases...

Dont know what your source is, however the tender documents call for

o Deadline for bids May 3rd.
o Airport project conducted under a BOT model (build, operate, transfer) running for 25-years.
o Airport would occupy 90,000 million square-meter land area of which 77 million square-meters will be developed
o Four-stage project
o First stage 90mil capacity and 3 runways by 2017
o Eventual up to 150mil with 6 runways
o Construction window - 42 months
o Will provide 120,000 jobs
o Estimated €7Bil investment
o Winning builders will be required to arrange commercial equity financing which will not be guaranteed by the Turkish Treasury


Winning tender will be selected based on 1) Meeting technical qualifications 2) Construction pricing, 3) Operating price through the 25-year lease period.

Already FRAport and Schiphol Group say they is interested in bidding.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 14):
Over ambitious

adding 20/30/30 Mio capacity in leaps of only 2 years is by far exceeding realistic potential traffic growth. From a financial point of view, this would be a waste of money as these terminals and runways would need to be financed without the yield from the traffic volume they are designed for.

Not really. Istanbul today already has traffic volume of 59 million, so opening an airport with 90mil capacity in 4-5 years seems reasonable.
At very moderate 5% growth by 2017 the count would be up to 72mil, but in reality TK is planning almost 50% growth in 5-year, so the 80mil+ range could easily be reached by the time the airport opens.
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Tupolev160
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RE: IST Plans The World's Biggest Airport: 150 Mio Pax

Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:00 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 26):

I definitely don't see the need for a whole new mega-airport in Istanbul. Instead of that SAW should be dramatically expanded and IST improved. That will be enough for the next 50 years at least. Same goes for the 3rd Bosphorus bridge in Istanbul but again its all about numbers and show-off more than the rational need. What are the limitations of expanding SAW, besides TK managers not wanting their airline's headquarters to be somewhere in Asia? Cause as far as i understand, the new projected airport will be even further to Taksim than SAW - not even talking about Silivri which is damn far.
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Tupolev160
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RE: IST Plans The World's Biggest Airport: 150 Mio Pax

Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:10 pm

Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 3):

At least the music is nice. If they eventually decide to go for it, they should not just make a big Otogar like in this movie but do something original, similar to the PEK newest terminal which is the most pleasant mega-airport i've been at.

leftyboarder (still trying to figure out your nickname, very intriguing) don't take me wrong, i'm even far more critical of my own country but i just can't stand stupidity, greed and vanity in general.

As Einstein said: “Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.” A Turkish writer made a similar comment.

Think about it.
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
 
LAXintl
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RE: IST Plans The World's Biggest Airport: 150 Mio Pax

Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:18 pm

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 27):
Instead of that SAW should be dramatically expanded

It is. Few years back got its new terminal and new runway is on the way.

But ultimately the airport is located on the Asian side, a more residential area and far away from central Istanbul, commerce areas, tourist sites, and where most people want to go.

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 27):
and IST improved.

Can't happen. Its land locked and in the middle of the growing metropolis.

No matter what a 3rd airport was needed. IST simply did not have a long term future.

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 27):
Same goes for the 3rd Bosphorus bridge in Istanbul but again its all about numbers and show-off more than the rational need.

Have you seen the volume of vehicle traffic across the continents daily?

330,000 cars cross daily, on the two current bridges designed for 180,000.

Plans for a third bridge (capacity 120,000/day) over the Bosphorus have circulated since the early 1990s. Matter of fact they identified the need for 5-bridges to carry the volume, and also have the tunnel on the way as well.

One need to remember Istanbul has gone from a population of 2.5mil 40 years ago when the first Japanese bridge opened to 14mil+ today.

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 27):
What are the limitations of expanding SAW, besides TK managers not wanting their airline's headquarters to be somewhere in Asia?

Again, the bulk of demand is on the European side, so yes SAW can and will expand on its own, but it certainly cant carry the weight for the entire metro area.
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lightsaber
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RE: IST Plans The World's Biggest Airport: 150 Mio Pax

Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:54 pm

DEN will keep the title or 'world's biggest' once it is built out.   

and the new Beijing will be quite a rival...

Quoting 1400mph (Reply 12):
Will IST and DXB and therefore TK and EK become future bitter rivals ?

Bitter? I don't know. rivals?   

Besides, there has to be some port of entry to fortress Europe.  
Quoting cloudyapple (Reply 19):
There's a ~100mppa "limit" for single airports, beyond which ATC, pax flow, baggage, APM, CIQ and other support services all become very difficult.

Huh? There is no limit as you want to imply. The issue with current airports is none prior to the new Beijing airport were designed for > 100million passengers per year. I'm trying to think of *one* current airport that is at a limit designed for over 45 million passengers per year!

ATC will be handled by spacing the runways. Far superior than say ATL or ORD.

Passenger flow needs to be done as a super DEN; Broad hallways with horizontal escalators with better means to get from concourse to concourse.

For baggage, hire the company that set up MUC.

The other services could be distributed.

DEN, DWC, the new Beijing, ICN, and HKG will all break 100 million.
ATL has been handicapped by terminal space, runway spacing, and a lack of O&D traffic.
ORD has been hampered by terminal and airside capacity.
LHR has been held up by lack of new runways and needs more land for rapid terminal expansion.


Seriously, if a 2-runway airport with a curfew can hit 70 million passengers per year, why couldn't a 5 runway airport double that? I'd like to know the limit. As far as I know, economies of scale will only improve.

Lightsaber
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stylo777
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RE: IST Plans The World's Biggest Airport: 150 Mio Pax

Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:13 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 31):
Quoting TK787 (Reply 16):

I like the idea of moving PC with their new order of NEOs also to the new airport. Just a quick calculation: IST 45mio and SAW 15mio adds up to 60mio. adding now some future growth potential to this quotiation might lead to the forecasted first phase of 90mio; however, I also fail to see the 150s now or in the future.
 
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TK787
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RE: IST Plans The World's Biggest Airport: 150 Mio Pax

Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:25 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 26):
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 29):

As always thank you, for simply explaining in detail.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 26):
Already FRAport and Schiphol Group say they is interested in bidding.

I guess they don't find the project over ambitious. I have a feeling they will be bidding to make a few $$$$.
Good Luck to them but TAV, current operator of IST, will do everything to win this.
 
airbazar
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RE: IST Plans The World's Biggest Airport: 150 Mio Pax

Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:35 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 26):
Estimated €7Bil investment

LHR T5 alone cost 5 Bil and they expect to build a brand new mega airport from scratch for a mere 7 Bil? Right  
 
tommytoyz
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RE: IST Plans The World's Biggest Airport: 150 Mio Pax

Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:47 pm

I think DXB is going to have a serious competitor. This would have a few things going for it that DXB does not:

- Traffic supported by larger O&D traffic
- Shorter distances to many points than connecting via DXB
- Lower temperatures (important for some operations)
- No sand storms and sand related expenses on turbines, etc...


I think TK would order a bunch of new planes and expand if this happens and open up many new routes. Not necessarily with A380 though, as I think air cargo volume would be much higher through Turkey than through DXB and thus more important, since Dubai has virtually no product/production chain - unlike Turkey.
Just my 2 cents
 
umit
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RE: IST Plans The World's Biggest Airport: 150 Mio Pax

Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:48 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 35):

Would that be because of much lower labor cost ? lower cost of land comparing to London ?
 
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TK787
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RE: IST Plans The World's Biggest Airport: 150 Mio Pax

Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:55 pm

Hello all,
Just to remind everyone that we have been talking this to death over the years and it is not going anywhere;
Yes the 3rd airport will be built, Yes there is a need, Yes TK will keep growing, Yes TK will order both the 350 and the 380.

Here is a look at some threads from exactly 6 years ago; Seems so loooooong ago;
Turkish Aviation January 2007 (by TK787 Jan 16 2007 in Civil Aviation)
Istanbul, 3rd Airport? LHR, IST.. Pics. Compared (by TK787 Jan 29 2007 in Civil Aviation)
 
airbazar
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RE: IST Plans The World's Biggest Airport: 150 Mio Pax

Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:55 pm

Quoting umit (Reply 37):
Would that be because of much lower labor cost ? lower cost of land comparing to London ?

I'm saying I don'tbelieve it will cost only 7 Billion. T5 didn't require much land acquisition, certainly not in the scale that this new airport will require. And I doubt the labor costs will be significantly cheaper. Istambul is not Dubai or Beijing  
 
rwy04lga
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RE: IST Plans The World's Biggest Airport: 150 Mio Pax

Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:01 pm

Seems like there's going to be a lot of walking! Why are all of those people outside on the sidewalk? What IATA code will it have or will they transfer the IST code? PEK,DXB,DEN,HKG,IST,ICN,BKK....all of these huge airports are giving my airport, LGA, a bit of 'airport envy'.
Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
 
leftyboarder
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RE: IST Plans The World's Biggest Airport: 150 Mio Pax

Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:28 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 39):

well, the current terminal at IST cost a fraction of that... granted that was just a terminal but in Turkey construction costs are nowhere nesr that of the UK.

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 28):

I am lefthanded and I snowboard.. did that alleviate your worries?
 
Turkish350XWB
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RE: IST Plans The World's Biggest Airport: 150 Mio Pax

Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:04 pm

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 28):
As Einstein said: “Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.” A Turkish writer made a similar comment.

Think about it.

True, and a very very smart philosopher once said "Stupid people, shut up".

Think about it.
 
TurkishWings
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RE: IST Plans The World's Biggest Airport: 150 Mio Pax

Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:51 pm

Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 43):
I am lefthanded and I snowboard.. did that alleviate your worries?
Quoting Turkish350XWB (Reply 44):
True, and a very very smart philosopher once said "Stupid people, shut up".

Think about it.

Don't bother really... The more you reply to his posts, the more he will post.. Let him have his fun...
Coffee - Tea or Me?
 
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lightsaber
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RE: IST Plans The World's Biggest Airport: 150 Mio Pax

Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:07 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 41):
It is simply saturation and when you look at ORD and ATL, where are the traffic figures going? Pretty flat.

But they are not good examples.

ATL needs more terminals and O&D traffic to expand. IST will have the O&D. Ground transportation is the issue.

ORD has been managed to keep AA and UA 'safe.' Until there is a large gate expansion along with airside improvements, it is 'boxed in.'

I see no reason the new IST wouldn't grow over 100 million as long as the ground transportation keeps up. (Which, is admittedly a reasonable doubt to have.)

Quoting airbazar (Reply 35):
LHR T5 alone cost 5 Bil and they expect to build a brand new mega airport from scratch for a mere 7 Bil? Right

LHR had many expenses that were high due to the:
1. Density of the location (cost of demolition and keeping LHR operating at peak capacity during construction).
2. "NIMBY hurdles" which is my term for roadblocks put up to stop the expansion of LHR.
Note: I think the airport will, like all big projects, go over-budget and schedule. Unless they hire whomever did the Concourse A at DXB.  

Lightsaber
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Tupolev160
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RE: IST Plans The World's Biggest Airport: 150 Mio Pax

Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:12 pm

Istanbul, 3rd Airport? LHR, IST.. Pics. Compared (by TK787 Jan 29 2007 in Civil Aviation)

This post reflects exactly my opinion and it was posted by one of your compatriots (so no accusations of anti-turk-ism here please). Why build a 3rd airport if the existing ones are under-(or badly) utilized?
Obviously, just for some people to fill their pockets and gain political points by building unnecessary super-structures (and that from the outside only).
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
 
r2rho
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RE: IST Plans The World's Biggest Airport: 150 Mio Pax

Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:17 pm

This idea has been floating around for years now, so I'd like to at least see a detailed airport layout, not just articles with empty words. I do not doubt the demand for this airport nor the ability to build it, just if this time around it's actually truly happening.

150 million is exxaggerated and too optimistic IMO... but as long as they build the thing in phases, that's fine - halfway through they can always realize their predictions were off and cancel the last phases. 100 million though is achievable over the long term.

The success of of this airport will in great deal be directly proportional to the amount of denied runway capacity expansions, curfews, air passenger duties, etc that are introduced in the EU.

It will definitely have to compete with DXB & friends. But assuming a 3200nm realistic range, look at what you can do with an A321NEO from IST  http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?R=3200nm+%40IST&MS=wls&DU=mi

TK will be able to serve thin secondary destinations with narrowbodies where the Gulf carriers need a widebody, which can open interesting possibilities.

Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 11):
As for the other airports, IST will close for scheduled commercial traffic and become a charter / GA airport, SAW will remain.

Good decision. SAW is more LCC oriented and on the Asian side of a huge metropolitan area, it is perfectly complementary to this new airport. Limiting IST will avoid a LIN-MXP situation. Having said that, I think IST could still have some limited commercial operations, with limits on slots, a/c size and range, to keep a sort of LCY-type operation.


Quoting RWA380 (Reply 7):
For thousands of years this place has been the crossroads of the world,

  
 
LAXintl
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RE: IST Plans The World's Biggest Airport: 150 Mio Pax

Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:26 pm

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 48):
This post reflects exactly my opinion and it was posted by one of your compatriots (so no accusations of anti-turk-ism here please). Why build a 3rd airport if the existing ones are under-(or badly) utilized?

That thread is 6 years old.

In 2006, Istanbul market enplanements were 24 million total. In 2012 it was 59mil !!

THY in 2006 celebrated the arrival of its 100th aircraft. It ended 2012 with 205.

Today, no one, from the airline community, to politicians are questioning the need for more capacity, and a 3rd airport.
IST Ataturk can only be improved with small increments today.

A new greenfield airport is the sole answer, and the debate recently was not about if its needed, but where it should be located.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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DocLightning
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RE: IST Plans The World's Biggest Airport: 150 Mio Pax

Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:53 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 7):
For thousands of years this place has been the crossroads of the world, why should that change?

Because it's no longer about roads?

It is true that IST's geographical location is pretty ideal for Europe-ME connections, though. Perhaps even better than DXB and neighbors.
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justloveplanes
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RE: IST Plans The World's Biggest Airport: 150 Mio Pax

Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:05 pm

Looks like IST will be a narrow body hub and DXB a wide body hub. IST will take away some business from DXB a la Southwest using secondary airports to get to the local populace at the source, but that was an eventuality. It should be very successful if they don't over-reach, so setting a modest (!) target like 50 million vice 150 million should do just fine to start. IST looks like it will be a similar, yet different animal to DXB.
 
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TK787
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RE: IST Plans The World's Biggest Airport: 150 Mio Pax

Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:12 pm

Quoting justloveplanes (Reply 52):
so setting a modest (!) target like 50 million

Here it is one more time;
IST hit 45mil pax in 2012!!!! 50M will be reached easily before the end of 2013.
 
rwy04lga
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RE: IST Plans The World's Biggest Airport: 150 Mio Pax

Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:16 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 51):
Quoting RWA380 (Reply 7):
For thousands of years this place has been the crossroads of the world, why should that change?

Because it's no longer about roads?

Good one! 
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incitatus
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RE: IST Plans The World's Biggest Airport: 150 Mio Pax

Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:24 pm

Quoting r2rho (Reply 49):
TK will be able to serve thin secondary destinations with narrowbodies where the Gulf carriers need a widebody, which can open interesting possibilities.

Why do you say this?

IST needs more range to reach SE Asia while DOH does not. The other difference is the trade-off of two bits of Africa. DOH is better located for narrow-bodies than IST. Though no doubt I rather change in IST.

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point2point
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RE: IST Plans The World's Biggest Airport: 150 Mio Pax

Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:21 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 30):
DEN will keep the title or 'world's biggest' once it is built out.

The article states that the new airport will be 77M square meters. I’m hoping that my arithmetic is correct here, but I do believe that this 77M square meters will be just a fraction under 30 square miles. DEN is at 53 square miles, so DEN will remain bigger at least in terms of land area.

I love following big new airports around the world.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 30):
Passenger flow needs to be done as a super DEN; Broad hallways with horizontal escalators with better means to get from concourse to concourse.

I agree. The traffic design at DEN is probably second to none.

Quoting TK787 (Reply 16):
2012= 45M
Quoting EK413 (Reply 13):
4thh phase: 150,0000,000 (+30,000,000)
-~ 2025

This new Istanbul airport is stated to facilitate some 150M pax per year at full build out by year 2025? This just from observation and experience I have to ask, but isn't this extremely, extremely ambitious? We're assuming here that pax traffic here will more than triple in a span of about 12-13 years. WOW is all I can think of the optimists in Istanbul. I think that Istanbul does have many fantastic things going for it, but again, WOW........

Are they going to be closing the other two airports in the area? If not, then I see this goal of 150M pax by 2025 even more difficult to achieve.

Anyway, all the best to Istanbul...... and I do look forward to being "wowwed" many more times as this progresses.


 
 
LAXintl
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RE: IST Plans The World's Biggest Airport: 150 Mio Pax

Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:44 pm

Quoting point2point (Reply 56):
The article states that the new airport will be 77M square meters. I’m hoping that my arithmetic is correct here, but I do believe that this 77M square meters will be just a fraction under 30 square miles. DEN is at 53 square miles, so DEN will remain bigger at least in terms of land area.

Noted in Reply 26

Airport would occupy 90,000 million square-meter land area of which 77 million square-meters will be developed.

Quoting point2point (Reply 56):
We're assuming here that pax traffic here will more than triple in a span of about 12-13 years. WOW is all I can think of the optimists in Istanbul. I think that Istanbul does have many fantastic things going for it, but again, WOW........

Wow is right, but check out the growth the last decade --

Total Istanbul passengers(mil) / annual growth rate
2000 - 10.3
2001 - 10.8 / +4.9%
2002 - 11.4 / +5.6%
2003 - 12.3 / +7.9%
2004 - 15.8 / +28.5%
2005 - 20.2 / +27.8%
2006 - 24.2 / +19.8%
2007 - 26.9 / +11.1%
2008 - 32.8 / +21.9%
2009 - 36.2 / +10.4%
2010 - 43.3 / +19.6%
2011 - 50.6 / +16.9%
2012 - 59.5 / +17.6%

Growth has averaged 16% annually !
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
UA787DEN
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RE: IST Plans The World's Biggest Airport: 150 Mio Pax

Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:46 pm

Is it just me or are all the new airports being planned and master plans being updated for a new "busiest airport"?

I think many major US airports, most new middle eastern, and many east Asian airports are planned for over 100 million.

Quoting point2point (Reply 56):
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 30):
DEN will keep the title or 'world's biggest' once it is built out.

The article states that the new airport will be 77M square meters. I’m hoping that my arithmetic is correct here, but I do believe that this 77M square meters will be just a fraction under 30 square miles. DEN is at 53 square miles, so DEN will remain bigger at least in terms of land area.

Your math is correct.
It will still be smaller than DMM by land area. IIRC, DMM is at something like 300 square miles. RUH is around 80.

DEN is large enough to fit ATL, ORD, DFW, and LAX into it (by square miles, not shape). Thus, it is larger than all US airports busier than it combined.

90,000,000 square meters is about 34.75 square miles, so IST is still smaller than DEN. DFW is 28.25 square miles.

[Edited 2013-01-28 14:50:15]

[Edited 2013-01-28 14:50:53]
 
ely747
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RE: IST Plans The World's Biggest Airport: 150 Mio Pax

Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:12 pm

Not sure if this has already been pointed (far too many posts to read) however Istanbul or Turkey itself has competitive advantage over the Gulf and that is the home market which cannot be ignored and makes the whole project more sustainable. Using IST as a stopover makes more sense than DXB or DOH in most cases. Can't see the reason why would anybody want to fly from the UK / France/ Germany to CPT or JNB via DXB unless you want to spend a day or two down the beach.

In addition IST can work for the Israel market which is not that big in number of people but rather in high yields.. Pegasus and TH are the only airlines from the region serving TLV as of today.

[Edited 2013-01-28 15:16:52]
 
leftyboarder
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RE: IST Plans The World's Biggest Airport: 150 Mio Pax

Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:28 am

Quoting TK787 (Reply 16):
IST pax numbers;
2002= 12M
2004= 16M
2006= 21M
2008= 28M
2010= 32M
2012= 45M
Quoting UA787DEN (Reply 58):

airport land area and actual built up airport acreage are teo different things. DMM is indeed the largest in total land as it streches out into the desert for miles. but in terms of terminal space I am pretty sure all the other airports mentioned in this thread are larger. new IST will probably be larger than DEN in terms of terminal space.