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enilria
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OAG Changes 2/1/2013:B6/DL/NK/UA/US

Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:00 pm

INSTRUCTIONS

WHAT IS THIS REPORT?
This compares what is for sale THIS WEEK for the stated period versus what was for sale LAST WEEK...It does NOT compare to last year or now (UNLESS OTHERWISE STATED).

HOW DO I READ IT?
XXX-YYY DEC 4>5 JAN 4>5 ; means that the listed airline changed the frequency between the two airports to add from 4 to 5 roundtrips in December and January. No other months were changed. I only list one direction, although it is possible the listed change is only one way. It is too difficult to average the two directions. I assume the change is roundtrip and that is most often the case.

HOW ARE THE DAILY DEPARTURES CALCULATED?
This report uses total operations for the month listed, divided over the days in the month.

WHAT ARE THE FRACTIONAL FLIGHTS?
Non-daily operations create fractional weekly service. In most cases flights are rounded, but in the case of international service or markets with low frequency, fractions are shown. If a flight operated 5 days out of 7, it would show 0.8 flights.

WHY ARE THERE WEIRD FREQUENCIES AT Macedonian Airlines (Greece)">IN FAR AWAY MONTHS FOR LCCs?
Most airlines publish schedules 11 months in advance. This report covers the next 9 months. That avoids seeing schedules as they are loaded. Several LCCs load their schedules less than 9 months into the future. Their schedules may also end mid-month. If B6 loads their schedule until Jan15, all flights in Janaury will show half frequency because of the way the report is created.

WHY IS A WHOLE AIRLINE'S SCHEDULE SHOWN AS CHANGING FOR A FUTURE MONTH?
Similarly to the previous question, some airlines load their schedule from nothing inside the 9 month window of this report. When their schedule is extended it will show as new service because there was no previous schedule to compare to. In some instances I will show a more valid comparison against another period.

THOSE FLIGHTS AREN'T DELTA, THEY ARE PINNACLE
This report only shows the marketing code. It is too complicated to show all the operators.

THE FREQUENCIES MAY HAVE CHANGED AS YOU SHOW, BUT THE SEATS DIDNT CHANGE BECAUSE OF EQUIPMENT SWAPS
That is a natural weakness of a frequency based report, but it provides something to discuss below.

THE FREQUENCY DOESN'T SHOW A CHANGE, E.G. 4>4
This happens as a result of rounding. There is a change in service that is large enough to be listed, but through rounding it does not appear.

I marked some of the ones I thought were interesting with an "*".

*9W EWR-BRU APR 1.0>1.2 MAY 1.0>2 JUN 1.0>2 JUL 1.0>2
*9W JFK-BRU APR 0>0.2 MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0

AA ORD-DUS OCT 0.8>1.0
I guess last week was a bonehead mistake by somebody at AA.
*AA SJU-CCS MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>1.0 MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0

AC CVG-YYZ MAR 1.7>1.5
AC DEN-YYZ MAR 2>1.8
AC MKE-YYZ MAR 1.7>1.5
AC PWM-YYZ MAR 1.7>0 APR 1.7>0

AF IAD-CDG SEP 2>1.6 OCT 1.8>1.5

*AM ORD-MTY MAR 1.0>0.1 APR 1.0>0 MAY 1.0>0 JUN 1.0>0 JUL 1.0>0 AUG 1.0>0 SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0

AT JFK-CMN OCT 0.8>1.0

*B6 FLL-SJO JUN 0>0.1 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0
B6 JFK-CUN APR 3>4 MAY 3>4 JUN 2>3 JUL 2>3 AUG 2>3

BW FLL-POS OCT 1.0>0.8

*CA IAH-PEK JUL 0>0.4 AUG 0>0.5 SEP 0>0.6 OCT 0>0.5

CI ROR-TPE MAR 0.6>0.3 APR 0.6>0.3 MAY 0.6>0.3 JUN 0.6>0.3 JUL 0.6>0.3 AUG 0.6>0.3 SEP 0.5>0.3 OCT 0.6>0.3

*DL ATL-ANC JUN 0>0.3 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0
DL ATL-BTR OCT 9>8
*DL ATL-BTV JUN 0>0.8 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0
DL ATL-CHA SEP 10>9
DL ATL-CUN JUN 6>5
DL ATL-ECP AUG 9>7
*DL ATL-GRB JUN 0>0.7 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0
DL ATL-GSO SEP 9>8
DL ATL-JAN SEP 7>8 OCT 7>8
DL ATL-TRI SEP 8>7
Season further shortened
*DL ATL-VCE MAY 0.3>0
DL CVG-MDT SEP 1.7>1.0
DL DTW-LEX OCT 5>6
DL DTW-PIT SEP 5>6
DL FLL-MSP SEP 0.1>1.0
DL JFK-YUL JUN 3>2 JUL 3>2 AUG 3>2 SEP 3>2 OCT 3>2
DL LGA-TYS MAY 0.8>1.7 JUN 0.8>1.7 JUL 0.8>1.7 AUG 0.8>1.7 SEP 0.9>1.7 OCT 0.9>1.7
These two routes will be gone soon I bet.
*DL MEM-JAN APR 1.7>1.1 MAY 1.7>0.8 JUN 1.7>0.8 JUL 1.7>0.8 AUG 1.7>0.8 SEP 1.7>0.9 OCT 1.7>0.9
*DL MEM-OKC APR 1.7>1.1 MAY 1.7>0.8 JUN 1.7>0.8 JUL 1.7>0.9 AUG 1.7>0.8 SEP 1.7>0.9 OCT 1.7>0.9
DL MIA-LAX APR 0.9>0.6
DL MSP-TVC OCT 0>1.0
*DL SLC-MSN JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0
DL TPA-CUN AUG 0.2>0

F9 PHL-CUN MAY 0.4>0.3
F9 PHL-PUJ MAY 0.3>0.2

KE DFW-ICN SEP 0.7>1.0 OCT 0.7>1.0
KE GUM-ICN JUL 1.0>1.2 AUG 1.0>1.6

M5 BFI-ESD JUN 1.0>2 JUL 1.0>2 AUG 1.0>2 SEP 1.0>2
M5 BFI-FRD JUN 2>4 JUL 2>4 AUG 2>4 SEP 2>4

MW HNL-MKK MAR 6>7 APR 6>7 MAY 6>7 JUN 6>7 JUL 6>7 AUG 6>7
MW KOA-OGG APR 15>14 MAY 15>14 JUL 15>14
MW MKK-HNL MAR 6>7 APR 6>7 MAY 6>7 JUN 6>7 JUL 6>7 AUG 6>7
MW MKK-OGG MAR 6>7 APR 6>7 MAY 6>7 JUN 6>7 JUL 6>7 AUG 6>7
MW OGG-KOA APR 15>14 MAY 15>14 JUL 15>14
MW OGG-MKK MAR 6>7 APR 6>7 MAY 6>7 JUN 6>7 JUL 6>7 AUG 6>7

One carrier, two carriers, no carriers, LOL...
*NK AZA-DEN MAY 1.0>0 JUN 1.0>0 JUL 1.0>0 AUG 1.0>0 SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0
More F9 pressure
*NK DEN-MSP MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0
More FLL shrinking
*NK FLL-NAS MAY 0.3>0 JUN 1.0>0 JUL 1.0>0 AUG 1.0>0

OZ SPN-PUS APR 0.3>0.6 MAY 0.3>0.6 JUN 0.3>0.6 JUL 0.3>0.5 AUG 0.3>0.6 SEP 0.3>0.6 OCT 0.3>0.5

P1 SJU-PUJ JUL 0>0.4

SV IAD-JED APR 0.4>0.6 MAY 0.5>0.6 JUN 0.4>0.6 JUL 0.4>0.5 AUG 0.5>0.6 SEP 0.4>0.6 OCT 0.3>0.5
SV JFK-JED APR 0.7>0.6 MAY 0.7>0.6 JUN 0.7>0.6 JUL 0.7>0.6 AUG 0.7>0.6 SEP 0.7>0.6
SV JFK-RUH APR 0.1>0.4 MAY 0.2>0.4 JUN 0.1>0.4 JUL 0.1>0.4 AUG 0.2>0.4 SEP 0.1>0.4 OCT 0.1>0.4
SY MSP-SAN JUL 0>0.9 AUG 0>0.8

TA LAX-GUA JUL 0>0.4 AUG 0.0>0.5
TA ORD-GUA JUL 0.5>0.6 AUG 0.4>0.5

TJ SJU-SBH JUN 1.3>0.7 JUL 1.2>0.7 AUG 1.3>0.7 SEP 1.3>0.7 OCT 1.2>0.7

TN LAX-CDG APR 0.7>0.5

UA DEN-CUN JUN 0.7>1.0 JUL 0.7>1.0
UA DEN-FCA JUL 2>4 AUG 1.8>4 SEP 1.0>2 OCT 1.0>2
UA DEN-GTF SEP 1.7>3
UA DEN-GUC JUL 1.0>2.0 AUG 1.0>1.8
UA DEN-HDN JUL 2>3 AUG 2>3
UA DEN-IDA JUL 3>4 AUG 3>4
UA DEN-JAC AUG 3>4 SEP 2>3 OCT 2>3
UA DEN-MCO SEP 3>2 OCT 3>2
UA DEN-MSO SEP 3>4 OCT 3>4
UA DEN-MTJ JUL 3>4 AUG 3>4
UA DEN-SJD JUL 0.1>0.4 AUG 0.1>0.3
UA DEN-TPA SEP 1.7>1.0 OCT 1.7>1.0
UA DEN-TUS SEP 5>3 OCT 5>3
UA DEN-YVR SEP 2>3
UA EWR-ANU JUL 0.5>0.4
UA EWR-BDA JUN 1.3>1.1 JUL 1.4>1.1 AUG 1.4>1.1
UA EWR-BQN AUG 0.9>0.8
UA EWR-CUN AUG 1.5>3
UA EWR-GUA JUN 0.2>0.3 JUL 0.1>0.3 AUG 0.2>0.3
*UA EWR-LIR JUN 0.9>0.3 JUL 1.0>0.3 AUG 1.0>0.3 SEP 1.0>0.3 OCT 1.0>0.3
UA EWR-NAS JUL 2>1.5 AUG 1.3>1.1
UA EWR-POS JUL 1.0>0.7
UA EWR-PVR JUL 0.1>0.3
UA EWR-SAP JUL 0.1>0.3 AUG 0.2>0.3
UA IAD-AUA JUL 0.3>0.1
UA IAD-CUN AUG 0.4>0.5
UA IAD-PUJ JUL 0.1>0.3
UA IAH-ACA JUL 1.0>0.7 OCT 0.8>0.5
UA IAH-BON JUL 0.3>0.1
Hmm...I wonder if they expect B6 to announce.
*UA IAH-BOS JUN 5>6 JUL 4>6 AUG 4>6
UA IAH-GCM JUL 1.0>1.1
UA IAH-MTY AUG 8>9
UA IAH-SAP JUL 2>1.4 AUG 1.5>1.3
UA IAH-SJD JUL 1.9>3 AUG 1.9>3
UA LAX-CUN AUG 0.5>0.8 SEP 0.1>0.4 OCT 0.1>0.4
UA LAX-GDL SEP 1.0>0.7 OCT 1.0>0.7
UA LGA-AUA JUL 0>0.1
UA ORD-ALB JUN 5>4
UA ORD-BDL JUN 5>6 JUL 5>6 AUG 5>6
UA ORD-BIL JUN 0>0.8
UA ORD-BTV JUN 4>5 JUL 4>5 AUG 4>5
UA ORD-BUF JUN 6>8 JUL 6>8 AUG 6>8
UA ORD-BWI JUN 6>5 JUL 6>5 AUG 6>5
UA ORD-CMH JUL 7>8 AUG 7>8
UA ORD-DAY JUN 7>8 JUL 7>8
UA ORD-DSM JUN 6>7 JUL 6>7 AUG 6>7
UA ORD-EWR JUN 15>16 JUL 16>17 AUG 15>16
UA ORD-FLL JUN 1.0>1.8 JUL 1.0>2
UA ORD-GRR JUN 6>7 JUL 6>7 AUG 6>7
UA ORD-MCI JUN 8>9 JUL 8>9 AUG 8>9
UA ORD-MDT JUN 6>5 JUL 6>5 AUG 6>5
UA ORD-MHT JUN 3>2.0 JUL 3>2
UA ORD-OKC JUN 5>4 JUL 5>4 AUG 5>4
UA ORD-PHX JUL 3>2
UA ORD-PWM JUL 3>4 AUG 3>4
UA ORD-RAP JUN 3>2.0
UA ORD-SAN JUN 5>4 JUL 5>4
UA ORD-SAT JUN 3>4 JUL 3>4 AUG 3>4
UA ORD-SAV JUN 4>3 JUL 4>3 AUG 4>3
UA ORD-SDF JUN 5>6 JUL 5>6 AUG 5>6
UA ORD-SJD JUL 0.1>0.3
UA ORD-SYR JUL 5>6
UA ORD-TVC JUL 4>5
SFO-Mexico cutbacks
UA SFO-CUN APR 1.0>0.8 MAY 1.0>0.7 JUN 1.0>0.5 JUL 1.0>0.5 AUG 0.9>0.4 OCT 1.0>0.4
UA SFO-GDL JUL 1.0>0.3 AUG 1.0>0.7 SEP 1.0>0.7
UA SFO-PVR APR 1.1>0.8 MAY 1.1>0.7 JUN 1.2>0.5 JUL 1.1>0.5 AUG 1.1>0.8 SEP 0.7>0.3 OCT 1.1>0.5
UA SFO-SJD SEP 0.8>0.9

US CLT-GRU MAY 0.9>0 JUN 1.0>0.8
Response to NK?
*US PHL-MYR APR 0.7>1.7 MAY 0.2>1.2 JUN 0.2>1.2 JUL 0.1>1.1 AUG 0.2>1.2 SEP 0.1>1.1 OCT 0.1>1.1
US PHX-HNL SEP 1.6>1.5
US PHX-KOA SEP 0.6>0.4
US PHX-LIH SEP 0.7>0.6
*US PHX-YEG MAY 2>1.7 JUN 2>1.0 JUL 2>1.0 AUG 2>1.0 SEP 2>1.0
*US PHX-YYC MAY 2>1.7 JUN 2>1.0

VR BOS-RAI AUG 0.4>0.5

VS MCO-LGW APR 2>1.9 JUN 1.9>1.8

WP HNL-KOA MAR 0.5>0
WP HNL-LNY MAR 4>3
WP HNL-OGG MAR 4>3
WP KOA-HNL MAR 0.5>0
WP LNY-HNL MAR 6>5
WP OGG-HNL MAR 4>3
 
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STT757
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RE: OAG Changes 2/1/2013:B6/DL/NK/UA/US

Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:15 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):

*9W EWR-BRU APR 1.0>1.2 MAY 1.0>2 JUN 1.0>2 JUL 1.0>2

Where does that 2nd flight continue on to? Shows the size of the New Jersey-India market. That makes five daily flights to India from EWR.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
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enilria
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RE: OAG Changes 2/1/2013:B6/DL/NK/UA/US

Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:19 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*9W EWR-BRU APR 1.0>1.2 MAY 1.0>2 JUN 1.0>2 JUL 1.0>2
*9W JFK-BRU APR 0>0.2 MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0
Quoting STT757 (Reply 1):
Where does that 2nd flight continue on to? Shows the size of the New Jersey-India market. That makes five daily flights to India from EWR.

True, but it is just an airport shift. Don't know the through point. BOM?
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: OAG Changes 2/1/2013:B6/DL/NK/UA/US

Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:52 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL SLC-MSN JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0

So there will be service from Madison to SLC but zero flights to Milwaukee. That must be a such a major hole for the MKE business community not to have a SLC link especially if Delta keeps building elites.

for random dates i saw CRJ-700
MSN-SLC 6:30pm- 8:40pm
SLC-MSN 2:00pm-5:55pm
 
ouboy79
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RE: OAG Changes 2/1/2013:B6/DL/NK/UA/US

Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:00 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL MEM-OKC APR 1.7>1.1 MAY 1.7>0.8 JUN 1.7>0.8 JUL 1.7>0.9 AUG 1.7>0.8 SEP 1.7>0.9 OCT 1.7>0.9

Increase of mainline to ATL makes MEM completely pointless these days. It won't be missed.
 
rivervisual
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RE: OAG Changes 2/1/2013:B6/DL/NK/UA/US

Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:01 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 2):
True, but it is just an airport shift. Don't know the through point. BOM?

it actually looks like additional service as opposed to an airport shift.

EWR goes from MAY 1.0>2

JFK goes from MAY 0>1.0

so from 1 daily NYC-BRU to 3 daily NYC-BRU

seems like a lot so may be a filing error??
 
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AVENSAB727
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RE: OAG Changes 2/1/2013:B6/DL/NK/UA/US

Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:17 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
UA IAH-ACA JUL 1.0>0.7 OCT 0.8>0.5
UA IAH-BON JUL 0.3>0.1
Hmm...I wonder if they expect B6 to announce.
*UA IAH-BOS JUN 5>6 JUL 4>6 AUG 4>6
UA IAH-GCM JUL 1.0>1.1
UA IAH-MTY AUG 8>9
UA IAH-SAP JUL 2>1.4 AUG 1.5>1.3
UA IAH-SJD JUL 1.9>3 AUG 1.9>3

IAH-PTY,IAH-BOS, IAH-GCM, and IAH-SJD have gone up in frequency, This is some good news for IAH.
Always look on the bright side of Life!
 
MaverickM11
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RE: OAG Changes 2/1/2013:B6/DL/NK/UA/US

Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:25 pm

Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 6):

IAH-PTY,IAH-BOS, IAH-GCM, and IAH-SJD have gone up in frequency, This is some good news for IAH.

They're all flat year over year.

Quoting rivervisual (Reply 5):
seems like a lot so may be a filing error??

That's my guess.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
flyguy1
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RE: OAG Changes 2/1/2013:B6/DL/NK/UA/US

Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:27 pm

So Jet is resuming JFK?
727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
 
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AVENSAB727
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RE: OAG Changes 2/1/2013:B6/DL/NK/UA/US

Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:32 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 7):

But an new frequency is good for the paying customer. More options.
Always look on the bright side of Life!
 
wn676
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RE: OAG Changes 2/1/2013:B6/DL/NK/UA/US

Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:44 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*US PHX-YEG MAY 2>1.7 JUN 2>1.0 JUL 2>1.0 AUG 2>1.0 SEP 2>1.0
*US PHX-YYC MAY 2>1.7 JUN 2>1.0

Not all that surprising, up until 2011 US to YYC and YEG were all Express during the summer and I believe at 2x and 1x, respectively. Winter is really the high season for those markets.
Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
 
ScottB
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RE: OAG Changes 2/1/2013:B6/DL/NK/UA/US

Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:58 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 1):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):

*9W EWR-BRU APR 1.0>1.2 MAY 1.0>2 JUN 1.0>2 JUL 1.0>2

Where does that 2nd flight continue on to? Shows the size of the New Jersey-India market.

Jet operates a scissor hub at BRU, so presumably they're adding another flight to BOM or DEL? Unless it's a filing error.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
UA ORD-PHX JUL 3>2

I realize they can put connecting passengers on the US code share, but only two daily UA metal round-trips in a market as large as Chicago-Phoenix?

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
These two routes will be gone soon I bet.
*DL MEM-JAN APR 1.7>1.1 MAY 1.7>0.8 JUN 1.7>0.8 JUL 1.7>0.8 AUG 1.7>0.8 SEP 1.7>0.9 OCT 1.7>0.9
*DL MEM-OKC APR 1.7>1.1 MAY 1.7>0.8 JUN 1.7>0.8 JUL 1.7>0.9 AUG 1.7>0.8 SEP 1.7>0.9 OCT 1.7>0.9

IIRC the DFW hub was quite a bit bigger than MEM currently is just before DFW was de-hubbed. I suppose the availability of the two-class CR9 for routes like PHL/BOS/DEN/PHX helps.
 
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enilria
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RE: OAG Changes 2/1/2013:B6/DL/NK/UA/US

Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:08 pm

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 4):
Increase of mainline to ATL makes MEM completely pointless these days. It won't be missed.

or the whole hub...

Quoting rivervisual (Reply 5):
Quoting enilria (Reply 2):
True, but it is just an airport shift. Don't know the through point. BOM?

it actually looks like additional service as opposed to an airport shift.

My mistake, but agreed that it is now pretty weird. I wonder how it will shake out.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 11):
IIRC the DFW hub was quite a bit bigger than MEM currently is just before DFW was de-hubbed. I suppose the availability of the two-class CR9 for routes like PHL/BOS/DEN/PHX helps.

I wonder what the bank structure is like now? Do they have 3 banks now or is it just a collection of junk randomly timed?
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: OAG Changes 2/1/2013:B6/DL/NK/UA/US

Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:09 pm

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 3):
So there will be service from Madison to SLC but zero flights to Milwaukee. That must be a such a major hole for the MKE business community not to have a SLC link especially if Delta keeps building elites.

There a few very companies in MSN that provide DL with a lot of their business. I would not be surprised if they are the ones specifically asking for better west coast connectivity.
 
COflyerBOS
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RE: OAG Changes 2/1/2013:B6/DL/NK/UA/US

Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:17 pm

Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 9):

They are NOT new frequencies. These are routine seasonal adjustments.

In fact, if you take off your IAH blinders, you'd see that BOS service at 4 times daily at any time of year is a reduction. CO used to serve that route 5 times daily during the leaner months and 6 times during the peak season.

Also, it's MTY (Monterrey) not Panama City getting the additional flight. Mostly likely just another ERJ.

ORD got quite the boost. Looks like a +9 in flights. ORD is likely the biggest UA hub now so hopefully they'll stop with all the "IAH is still the biggest hub" nonsense.

Avensa, you really need to stop with your constant Rah-Rah IAH bit. We've seen an overall REDUCTION in service since the merger. Numerous cities have been dropped. Available seats are also down. There's no way to spin it otherwise.
 
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AVENSAB727
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RE: OAG Changes 2/1/2013:B6/DL/NK/UA/US

Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:21 pm

Quoting COflyerBOS (Reply 14):

And I dont see that ORD is the biggest hub for UA anywhere else, if ORD did reclaim the crown, I think it would be in the news. CO is gone now, but IAH is still UAs most profitable hub. UA has added frequencies to many routes out of IAH. CDG was an underperforming route, and UA cut what was not profitable. They just used WN and HOU expansion as a cover. As long as it says the IAH is the largest hub in the system everywhere else than it is still the largest hub.

[Edited 2013-01-28 10:26:53] And you are not United, and unless UA says that IAH is not the largest hub anymore, I'll believe it.

[Edited 2013-01-28 10:29:46]
Always look on the bright side of Life!
 
drerx7
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RE: OAG Changes 2/1/2013:B6/DL/NK/UA/US

Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:39 pm

Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 15):
And I dont see that ORD is the biggest hub for UA anywhere else, if ORD did reclaim the crown, I think it would be in the news.

It would not make the news. Crunch the numbers...I would not be surprised to see Chicago being the larger hub of the two.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
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AVENSAB727
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RE: OAG Changes 2/1/2013:B6/DL/NK/UA/US

Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:42 pm

If that is the case, IAH would be number 2.

[Edited 2013-01-28 10:44:48] Anyway, I think IAH could see expansion from UA in the future.

[Edited 2013-01-28 10:47:03]
I am going to drop my IAH ra ra bit, But I think IAH is in great shape with the new UA.


[Edited 2013-01-28 10:51:57]
I think the reduction of service was going to happen with the merger, but I think this was UA cutting the "fat."


[Edited 2013-01-28 10:58:38]
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RE: OAG Changes 2/1/2013:B6/DL/NK/UA/US

Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:19 pm

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 4):
Increase of mainline to ATL makes MEM completely pointless these days. It won't be missed.

It will the days where ATL is either ATC or weather delayed...which is a LOT!


That being said...I'm still amazed no one notices when NK cuts a route at FLL, but praises them for their huge expansions out west. Mark my words, LAS and DFW will share the same fate as FLL...
 
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RE: OAG Changes 2/1/2013:B6/DL/NK/UA/US

Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:20 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
More F9 pressure
*NK DEN-MSP MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0

Woah, two things. First, MSP-DEN is even more of a bloodbath. And two, NK is making inroads at MSP.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 2/1/2013:B6/DL/NK/UA/US

Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:24 pm

Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 15):
CDG was an underperforming route, and UA cut what was not profitable. They just used WN and HOU expansion as a cover

You don't find it odd that of all the cuts from all the hubs they needed "cover" for IAH? Who even believes that? What about IADACC; what was the 'cover' for that?
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RE: OAG Changes 2/1/2013:B6/DL/NK/UA/US

Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:27 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 20):

UA made a mistake either way. They should have just cut the routes.
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RE: OAG Changes 2/1/2013:B6/DL/NK/UA/US

Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:29 pm

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 19):
Woah, two things. First, MSP-DEN is even more of a bloodbath. And two, NK is making inroads at MSP.

I think the NK AZA-DEN flight was spent just to screw F9 and now they are moving it to MSP in hopes of doing the same. I don't think the route makes long term sense for NK unless F9 shuts the DEN "hub". Further, it's ULCC cat and mouse with NK clearly reacting to F9 dubbing themselves an LCC. I'm wondering if DL will respond to F9's CVG and TTN moves.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 2/1/2013:B6/DL/NK/UA/US

Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:44 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
UA DEN-CUN JUN 0.7>1.0 JUL 0.7>1.0
UA DEN-FCA JUL 2>4 AUG 1.8>4 SEP 1.0>2 OCT 1.0>2
UA DEN-GTF SEP 1.7>3
UA DEN-GUC JUL 1.0>2.0 AUG 1.0>1.8
UA DEN-HDN JUL 2>3 AUG 2>3
UA DEN-IDA JUL 3>4 AUG 3>4
UA DEN-JAC AUG 3>4 SEP 2>3 OCT 2>3
UA DEN-MCO SEP 3>2 OCT 3>2
UA DEN-MSO SEP 3>4 OCT 3>4
UA DEN-MTJ JUL 3>4 AUG 3>4
UA DEN-SJD JUL 0.1>0.4 AUG 0.1>0.3
UA DEN-TPA SEP 1.7>1.0 OCT 1.7>1.0
UA DEN-TUS SEP 5>3 OCT 5>3
UA DEN-YVR SEP 2>3

Between yesterday's OAG's Changes post, and now this one here today, at least in basic numbers, UA appears to be giving DEN a lot of attention and adding some 14-15 flights in total between these two posts for this arriving summer/early autumn season. The $22M rent reduction (if we can call it that) DEN management gave UA seems to be paying off, and the icing on the cake being DEN-NRT - if these 787s can get up in the air again.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
One carrier, two carriers, no carriers, LOL...
*NK AZA-DEN MAY 1.0>0 JUN 1.0>0 JUL 1.0>0 AUG 1.0>0 SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0

Oy vey....... well, the F9 nonstop is supposedly seasonal, so maybe F9's seasonal departure will not be as long as anticipated now?

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
More F9 pressure
*NK DEN-MSP MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0

So now along with DTW, DEN-MSP will have 5 carriers competing on this route...... wow........ although from the RITA data, DEN has been the airport with the most pax to/from MSP this year.


 
 
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RE: OAG Changes 2/1/2013:B6/DL/NK/UA/US

Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:59 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL SLC-MSN JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0

Hopefully DL sees how well F9 and UA are doing in DEN and will add GRR-SLC.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 2/1/2013:B6/DL/NK/UA/US

Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:00 pm

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 3):
So there will be service from Madison to SLC but zero flights to Milwaukee. That must be a such a major hole for the MKE business community not to have a SLC link especially if Delta keeps building elites.

MKE-SLC has always been problematic for DL. Most business connections can be made through MSP .
 
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RE: OAG Changes 2/1/2013:B6/DL/NK/UA/US

Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:27 pm

Quoting point2point (Reply 23):
and the icing on the cake being DEN-NRT - if these 787s can get up in the air again.

I wonder if DEN will let them out of the ASM requirement in that rent deal if the 787 ain't flying?

Quoting point2point (Reply 23):
Oy vey....... well, the F9 nonstop is supposedly seasonal, so maybe F9's seasonal departure will not be as long as anticipated now?

If they both left it must have been awful. Not sure either is eager to try it again.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 2/1/2013:B6/DL/NK/UA/US

Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:31 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 26):

I wonder that as well. If they use a 777 on the route temporarily, I wonder if DEN will be ok with that.
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RE: OAG Changes 2/1/2013:B6/DL/NK/UA/US

Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:37 pm

Quoting COflyerBOS (Reply 14):
ORD got quite the boost. Looks like a +9 in flights. ORD is likely the biggest UA hub now so hopefully they'll stop with all the "IAH is still the biggest hub" nonsense.
Quoting COflyerBOS (Reply 14):
Avensa, you really need to stop with your constant Rah-Rah IAH bit. We've seen an overall REDUCTION in service since the merger. Numerous cities have been dropped. Available seats are also down. There's no way to spin it otherwise.
Quoting drerx7 (Reply 16):
It would not make the news. Crunch the numbers...I would not be surprised to see Chicago being the larger hub of the two.
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 20):
You don't find it odd that of all the cuts from all the hubs they needed "cover" for IAH? Who even believes that?

Look, the IAH whining needs to be put to an end. This has gotten ridiculous. Every other UA thread seems to get hijacked into a Houston sob-fest.

I've entered the numbers below for W12/13 and S13. What you'll notice is that the hub size varies depending on season. Right now, IAH remains #1 in the UA network based on seats offered, ASKs and frequencies. During the summer months, Chicago will out-edge IAH, but only SLIGHTLY.

This is largely due to the fact that UA ramps up a lot of its seasonal operations for the summer months out of the ORD hub to markets that cannot support year-round service out of Chicago and up-gauges some of the widebody routes to accommodate for the busy travel season. Let's be truthful here: the UA network out of ORD is much more geographically well-positioned to capture traffic from the Central, South and West to Europe over Houston. ORD also flies nonstop to a few more European cities on UA metal (MUC, CDG, BRU, SNN) in addition to Star partners (CPH, ARN, ZRH, WAW, VIE, DUS) than what's available at Houston.

Let's look at the actual data for this week to see what's going on with UA in its hubs:

Week of January 28-Feb 1

Chicago:

Seats: 622,744

ASKs: 1,141,820,212

Frequency (To/From): 7,012

Houston

Seats: 671,953

ASKs: 1,269,111,491

Frequency (To/From): 7,107


Week of July 8-July 14

Chicago:

Seats: 746,875

ASKs: 1,251,180,871

Frequency (To/From): 8,789

Houston

Seats: 745,162

ASKs: 1,425,648,623

Frequency (To/From): 8,294

So yes, the IAH hub has been parred down a bit for the summer, but point blank, it is BARELY out-edged by ORD, and likely for only a few months. It's reality. Just accept it. It's the nature of the industry and United is headed for trouble if they're not able to recoup the large chunk of corporate traffic they've lost in this merger disaster. This isn't the time to be whining about some silly unprofitable flight to Paris that was cut.
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RE: OAG Changes 2/1/2013:B6/DL/NK/UA/US

Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:46 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL MIA-LAX APR 0.9>0.6

ooo, anyone find this a little odd?

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 16):
It would not make the news. Crunch the numbers...I would not be surprised to see Chicago being the larger hub of the two.

hah, Yeah big whoop. I remember saying last year don't be surprised to see ORD and IAH bounce back and forth as the largest hub for UA. IAH is a great hub, but for east west connections in the northeast and midwest, it makes more sense to connect people through the ORD (obviously sunbelt cities benefit more from IAH on east west connections).
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RE: OAG Changes 2/1/2013:B6/DL/NK/UA/US

Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:24 pm

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 28):

Thanks for the info, kind of proves what I was trying to say.
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RE: OAG Changes 2/1/2013:B6/DL/NK/UA/US

Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:32 pm

Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 27):
I wonder that as well. If they use a 777 on the route temporarily, I wonder if DEN will be ok with that.

DEN would happily take a 777, but UA claimed to DEN that a 777 couldn't make it for years because of a "wheel speed" issue (not enough lift at max wheel speed due to thin atmosphere), so they'd have egg on their face if they put it in there.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 28):
Look, the IAH whining needs to be put to an end. This has gotten ridiculous. Every other UA thread seems to get hijacked into a Houston sob-fest.

Frankly, it's UA who has acted childishly. I've watched this industry for a long long time and never seen anything like it.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 2/1/2013:B6/DL/NK/UA/US

Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:34 pm

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 28):
Look, the IAH whining needs to be put to an end. This has gotten ridiculous. Every other UA thread seems to get hijacked into a Houston sob-fest.

It really has nothing to do with IAH's relative size or what they've lost/gained--scratch that, *not* gained. It's about literally handing over a major hub to the competition. Mind you this is over five years:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...-lag-chicago-mover.html?cmpid=yhoo

"McKenzie did a five-year pricing study and found that domestic fares in Denver and San Francisco have increased just 10 percent and 18 percent respectively, while other hubs such as Houston and Chicago had increases of 40 percent and 28 percent over the same period. "

40% increase in fares over 5 years, outpacing ORD/SFO/DEN, and yet UA can't find anything to add in IAH. Odd.
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RE: OAG Changes 2/1/2013:B6/DL/NK/UA/US

Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:50 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 26):
If they both left it must have been awful. Not sure either is eager to try it again.

One would think that with an average of some 2800 pax daily traffic between DEN and PHX and how many planes from UA, US, WN and F9 flying between the two, that there would be at least one daily plane-full of pax that would find it more convenient to route with DEN-AZA.....?

Oh well, such is the likes of the airline game, eh?

 
 
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RE: OAG Changes 2/1/2013:B6/DL/NK/UA/US

Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:55 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 31):

A serious mistake by United.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 32):

SFO is also a focus city for AA as well. SFO has not seen any new routes as of late(except for CDG) so IAH is not alone.
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RE: OAG Changes 2/1/2013:B6/DL/NK/UA/US

Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:12 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 31):
Frankly, it's UA who has acted childishly. I've watched this industry for a long long time and never seen anything like it.

Oh, I completely agree. But equally obnoxious are the tantrums that the IAH loyalists love to throw on these forums at whim's notice. I get it, I would be bitter as well and frankly, UA has obviously not done much to 'win back' their loyalties because reliability has suffered. Still, you can't fault the airline for implementing necessary capacity guidance measures in order to stay profitable.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 32):
It's about literally handing over a major hub to the competition. Mind you this is over five years:

The article you have cited is crap.

First of all, I have no idea who nor what the Buckingham Research Group is that you've quoted here as your source, nor how reliable their data is. It sounds all relative to me. It doesn't even scale what "rating" system it used in its methodology and what they define as "neutral" within the entire process. Definition of poor journalism at its finest.

Denver and SFO have indeed been impacted by LCC infiltration which have kept fares competitive, that I will agree with, but it is laughable that this "analyst" used this mere data to conclude that these two hubs are dragging down profit margins. No mentioning of yields, revenue performance, nor profit margins. Simply, average fare increases.

That's like marking a dot on a piece of paper and saying you've drawn a triangle.

What's even MORE laughable is the VX example mentioned. Obviously Virgin is five times larger now than in 2008 - it was barely a year old back then!!! Do you know how much of the market share VX commands at SFO right now?

A whopping 9.2%. WOW.

Guess how much UA commands at SFO? 45.1%.

So while VX is five times larger at SFO today than it was 5 years ago, UA is still five times larger than VX is now at SF.

Completely throws this articles' credibility out the window.

And what competition is UA handing over the traffic to at IAH??? UA controls 84.9% of the market share in IAH!!!!!

Finally, UA has cut system capacity 20% over the past five years because the industry was at OVER capacity. Mind you, five years ago is pre-economic crisis, pre mega-mergers, pre checked luggage fees, essentially en ENTIRELY different landscape than it is today. "A deeper retrenchment than its peers" says nothing substantive. Every carrier has scaled back. UA's overall reduction numbers are OBVIOUSLY going to be the largest of all US legacies because it merged to become the largest airline in the world and the data is going to reflect that.
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RE: OAG Changes 2/1/2013:B6/DL/NK/UA/US

Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:24 pm

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 35):
ow.

And what competition is UA handing over the traffic to at IAH??? UA controls 84.9% of the market share in IAH!!!!!

Is this even fair to say with most of the competition in the Houston market focusing over at HOU? I am not trying to nitpick, but sometimes we get in the trap of looking at a specific airport, rather than the market as a whole, which is often served by more than one airport.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 2/1/2013:B6/DL/NK/UA/US

Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:24 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 32):
40% increase in fares over 5 years, outpacing ORD/SFO/DEN, and yet UA can't find anything to add in IAH. Odd.

I'll say this one final time: pmCO had THREE domestic US hubs before the merger. IAH did not have to contend with the presence of DEN and IAH within a 1,000 mi radius serving largely similar functions as connecting hubs (NSWE). Post-merger, the network had to be optimized in order to protect yields. With DEN and ORD now in the picture, the IAH hub was bloated and needed to be trimmed.

I don't see why it is so difficult to realize this.

Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 34):
SFO is also a focus city for AA as well. SFO has not seen any new routes as of late(except for CDG) so IAH is not alone.

SFO is not a focus city for American. LAX is the one you're thinking of. AA only flies to the cornerstone hubs from SFO and is the #4 carrier behind VX and WN holding #2 and #3, respectively.

Regardless, if the SFO hub was performing as badly as the unreliable article claims, then it would have been mentioned by now in the press. Never in my 10+ years of following industry trends and data has that idea even remotely come across as plausible.
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RE: OAG Changes 2/1/2013:B6/DL/NK/UA/US

Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:25 pm

Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 34):
SFO is also a focus city for AA as well.

Oh really? Hasn't AA cut BOS, STL, HNL and OGG from SFO the past few years? SFO seems to only be spoke. The only routes served from SFO are the cornerstone (or whatever it's called) hubs for AA: ORD, JFK, DFW, MIA and LAX. Those are exactly the same routes that AA serves from SEA, except that LAX is covered by code-share.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 2/1/2013:B6/DL/NK/UA/US

Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:27 pm

Oh my bad, thanks for the correction.
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RE: OAG Changes 2/1/2013:B6/DL/NK/UA/US

Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:34 pm

Quoting point2point (Reply 23):
Between yesterday's OAG's Changes post, and now this one here today, at least in basic numbers, UA appears to be giving DEN a lot of attention and adding some 14-15 flights in total between these two posts for this arriving summer/early autumn season. The $22M rent reduction (if we can call it that) DEN management gave UA seems to be paying off, and the icing on the cake being DEN-NRT - if these 787s can get up in the air again.

Though the NUMBER of UA flights at DEN is increasing, I expect that ASM's are actually near-flat. It takes several Q400's/CRJ's/CR7's on short routes like GUC/MTJ/HDN/JAC/IDA to make up for the cuts on mainline equipment to MCO & TPA. And much of this offers little benefit to Denver-area travelers as the vast majority of traffic on the new flights will be connecting (i.e. very few aside from non-revs would fly DEN-HDN/DEN-GUC/DEN-MTJ). If anything, it may crowd out Denver-area customers as UA flows more connections to the smaller markets over DEN, thus making fewer seats available for Denver O&D.

Quoting enilria (Reply 31):
Frankly, it's UA who has acted childishly. I've watched this industry for a long long time and never seen anything like it.

   It's all quite bizarre IMO. How much positive brand equity from CO have Smisek and company just flushed down the toilet since the merger? I think at this point that many in Houston are ready to say good riddance to them.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 28):
This isn't the time to be whining about some silly unprofitable flight to Paris that was cut.

It seems bizarre to me that IAH-CDG would have been flown for over 20 years by CO and its successor if it had been silly & unprofitable; moreover, I'm surprised that it survived the depths of the Great Recession in 2008-2010 after CO exited SkyTeam in October of 2009. And instead they chose to add SFO-CDG -- a route with less potential feed which had already failed in the past for United, and in which AF has a long-established presence?

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 28):
Let's be truthful here: the UA network out of ORD is much more geographically well-positioned to capture traffic from the Central, South and West to Europe over Houston.

Absolutely -- but IAH is better positioned to flow traffic to & from Latin America, a region which has seen far more robust traffic growth over the past several years than Europe which remains mired in recession. And they're reducing a hub in a metro area with 5.8% unemployment in favor of a hub in a metro area with 8.3% unemployment?
 
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RE: OAG Changes 2/1/2013:B6/DL/NK/UA/US

Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:47 pm

Quoting point2point (Reply 33):
One would think that with an average of some 2800 pax daily traffic between DEN and PHX and how many planes from UA, US, WN and F9 flying between the two, that there would be at least one daily plane-full of pax that would find it more convenient to route with DEN-AZA.....?

There almost certainly is, but location of the airport is not the only factor driving the purchase decision. If there's only one flight a day in a market like DEN-AZA, then the vastly superior schedule offered at Sky Harbor will trump convenience for the fraction of the metro area closer to AZA, especially if the prices are equal or nearly so. G4 makes AZA work largely because they offer non-stops from markets which are generally not served non-stop from PHX -- and budget-minded vacationers don't really care quite as much which Phoenix-area airport they use as long as they can get to their hotel/resort in the rental car.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 2/1/2013:B6/DL/NK/UA/US

Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:48 pm

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 35):
And what competition is UA handing over the traffic to at IAH??? UA controls 84.9% of the market share in IAH!!!!!
HOU However it's also a network industry, so also DFW and to a lesser extent ATL, etc

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 37):
With DEN and ORD now in the picture, the IAH hub was bloated and needed to be trimmed.

That's a nice narrative, but it doesn't fit the recent history at all. If that were true, wouldn't they have started the wind-down soon after the merger, and not after a local spat? For chrissakes even CLE has grown--why hasn't that been trimmed in favor of IAD/ORD? Why didn't UA draw down ORD when it was suing the city? Surely DEN/IAD could have picked up the traffic?

Quoting ScottB (Reply 40):
Absolutely -- but IAH is better positioned to flow traffic to & from Latin America, a region which has seen far more robust traffic growth over the past several years than Europe which remains mired in recession. And they're reducing a hub in a metro area with 5.8% unemployment in favor of a hub in a metro area with 8.3% unemployment?

   Follow the money (and the jobs). All the other carriers are.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 35):
First of all, I have no idea who nor what the Buckingham Research Group is that you've quoted here as your source, nor how reliable their data is. It sounds all relative to me.

They cover UA. Of course it's all relative, but combined with the rest of the economic and capacity data, it should be a surprise to no one that Texas has some of the strongest growth in the industry. That's fair to say whether or not you believe their data.

[Edited 2013-01-28 14:50:47]
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RE: OAG Changes 2/1/2013:B6/DL/NK/UA/US

Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:54 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 42):

Every situation was different, ORD is where UA was based at, so it would not have made sense to draw down ORD. WN's HOU expansion was the perfect cover for those cuts.
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RE: OAG Changes 2/1/2013:B6/DL/NK/UA/US

Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:00 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 40):
It seems bizarre to me that IAH-CDG would have been flown for over 20 years by CO and its successor if it had been silly & unprofitable; moreover, I'm surprised that it survived the depths of the Great Recession in 2008-2010 after CO exited SkyTeam in October of 2009. And instead they chose to add SFO-CDG -- a route with less potential feed which had already failed in the past for United, and in which AF has a long-established presence?

Several reasons.

First of all, IAH-CDG was not served for "over 20 years." It was 15 - it started in 1997.

Secondly, CO and AF had a longstanding partnership and codeshare agreement that aided the flight. This, of course, was strengthened when CO joined SkyTeam in 2004. For a period, AF even operated 2x daily flights, in addition to CO, on the IAH-CDG sector.

When CO left SkyTeam, the situation changed, but CO held onto the flight. When UA merged with CO, the need to serve IAH-CDG became redundant since CDG is already connected to three other US hubs: ORD, EWR and IAD. The economic environment in Europe right now isn't all that great. Moreover, the yields on the IAH-CDG flight sucked. There was no point to hold onto a glamour route inherited from pmCO if it wasn't pulling its weight.

SFO-CDG was pulled in 2005 and it wouldn't surprise me if it is pulled again. AF is indeed very entrenched in SFO, and XL Airways also operated a summer seasonal flight to San Fran last year, which UA will have to contend with. Perhaps UA feels that its loyalty base in San Fran will flock to this new service and benefit from having a nonstop West Coast connection to France, but it is questionable whether the yields will allow this flight to be sustainable.
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RE: OAG Changes 2/1/2013:B6/DL/NK/UA/US

Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:02 pm

Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 43):
WN's HOU expansion was the perfect cover for those cuts.

Why would they need "cover"? They already moved the HQ and this administration loves to stick it to Texas--they probably would have helped move the HQ and given them a space shuttle in Chicago if they could 
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RE: OAG Changes 2/1/2013:B6/DL/NK/UA/US

Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:03 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 40):
Though the NUMBER of UA flights at DEN is increasing, I expect that ASM's are actually near-flat. It takes several Q400's/CRJ's/CR7's on short routes like GUC/MTJ/HDN/JAC/IDA to make up for the cuts on mainline equipment to MCO & TPA. And much of this offers little benefit to Denver-area travelers as the vast majority of traffic on the new flights will be connecting (i.e. very few aside from non-revs would fly DEN-HDN/DEN-GUC/DEN-MTJ). If anything, it may crowd out Denver-area customers as UA flows more connections to the smaller markets over DEN, thus making fewer seats available for Denver O&D.

I wouldn't disagree with you here in the big picture, but I would think that having more flights to choose from in a schedule (even if they are the smaller birds) would add some convenience for a DEN traveler? And yes, I wouldn't think that there is a whole lot of O&D to some of these Colorado airports that are near DEN anyway.

From my POV, just glad that cuts aren't happening as rapidly as we've seen maybe pre-merger with UA and DEN. And the other concern just wanted to take into account here is that I would think that economists/financial planners for both the airport and UA did their homework so that the $22M 'rent reduction' that was recently agreed to by the two parties is the number that will benefit both sides in this transaction. And even though F9 and WN were throwing their tantrums with this at the time....... has anything been heard lately about this? So.... could one assume that maybe the airport management and the other airlines with their hands out now at DEN have reached some sort of understanding to the benefit of all? And if so (I still think that it's maybe an IF at this point), this could reflect quite positively on the DEN airport management that they can give up some revenue here and in turn, find more and different revenue streams generated from what they got for what they gave up.

Just my    here and continuing to watch if the $22M (and maybe some more) was an investment well made............

 
 
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AVENSAB727
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RE: OAG Changes 2/1/2013:B6/DL/NK/UA/US

Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:09 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 45):

Haha, very funny!
Always look on the bright side of Life!
 
ScottB
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RE: OAG Changes 2/1/2013:B6/DL/NK/UA/US

Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:18 pm

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 44):
First of all, IAH-CDG was not served for "over 20 years." It was 15 - it started in 1997.

My apologies, CO had served Paris non-stop from IAH for over two decades, although they originally served Orly and not Roissy.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 44):
When CO left SkyTeam, the situation changed, but CO held onto the flight.

So how exactly does IAH-AMS survive when IAH-CDG fails? KL probably has a better reputation for service than either CO or AF.
 
COflyerBOS
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RE: OAG Changes 2/1/2013:B6/DL/NK/UA/US

Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:24 pm

I am just arm-chair quarterbacking, but tell me which of the following isn't true;

1) Houston's economy is robust and growing
2) Houston is UA's only viable gateway to Latin America
3) CO enjoyed IAH having some of the highest fares year after year
4) CO/UA has no major competition at IAH
5) UA competes directly with AA at ORD on nearly every route
6) The economy in Texas > the economy in Illinois/Upper Midwest
7) With AA in bankruptcy, IAH was positioned to take some business from DFW connections

With those things stated, why then has IAH been downsized? Why has UA drawn back when WN has beefed up their schedule at Hobby? Why has UA not announced any new international flying but TK and CA have entered the market and LH has expanded its presence? Why have RJs been placed on routes to AUS, SAT, MSY, MEX, and more and markets like San Angelo, Abilene, Beaumont, Victoria, Del Rio, Texarkana, etc... been dropped essentially handing those markets over to AA and DFW?

Yes, I understand that DEN and ORD can carry some passengers that IAH was the only option for during the CO days, but it simply doesn't seem to make sense. Seems to me that there's some pride up in the old Sears Tower making some bad decisions. Cutting back a profitable hub with no direct competition and scaling back terminal facility upgrades in a growing and prosperous market simply has me baffled. I am not whining. I am questioning.

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