SELMER40
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Delta Buys 767 N764RD

Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:48 pm

On 24 Jan 13 Delta bought the 767-3Y0(ER) N764RD that last flew for Ryan Intl. All the other Delta 763s have over wing exits. This one does not. It has eight doors like the 764s. Time will tell if this a parts plane or a flying plane.
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BlueLine
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RE: Delta Buys 767 N764RD

Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:56 pm

Maybe use it for charters? I don't know about DL's fleet utilization, but I know they do a lot of charters for sports teams. I think they could use this ship for charters and keep a 763 in scheduled pax ops that would be used on a charter flight. Could they be taking a cue from UA with their United Charters 744 that Atlas returned to them last year?
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Delta Buys 767 N764RD

Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:02 pm

1992 delivery (20 years old)
Been in storage since December 2011
different configuration than any other aircraft in the fleet
at least 9 previous operators

This looks most likely to be a parts plane.

Quoting BlueLine (Reply 1):
Maybe use it for charters? I don't know about DL's fleet utilization, but I know they do a lot of charters for sports teams. I think they could use this ship for charters and keep a 763 in scheduled pax ops that would be used on a charter flight.

There is plenty of slack in the current 767-300ER fleet.

They would not keep on specifically for charters.
 
catiii
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RE: Delta Buys 767 N764RD

Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:42 pm

Quoting selmer40 (Thread starter):
All the other Delta 763s have over wing exits. This one does not.

Including the ex-Gulf Air 763's?
 
sxf24
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RE: Delta Buys 767 N764RD

Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:53 pm

Guaranteed this is a parts plane. If DL wanted another aircraft to operate, there are much better options on the market.
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: Delta Buys 767 N764RD

Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:00 pm

Quoting catiii (Reply 3):

Including the ex-Gulf Air 763's?

The ex-Gulf Air aircraft have a single pair of overwing exits and three pairs of doors. This one has four pairs of doors and no overwing exits.
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7BOEING7
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RE: Delta Buys 767 N764RD

Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:57 pm

The door immediately behind the wing on either side is not a full size door, nor does it operate like the full size doors (ie it doesn't go up into the ceiling). It's just a bigger overwing exit--not over the wing.
 
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b727fa
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RE: Delta Buys 767 N764RD

Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:13 pm

Not exactly. It's a hatch that falls down on a lower sill hinge but stays attached to the a/c. It's the same as the hatch on the 757.
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7BOEING7
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RE: Delta Buys 767 N764RD

Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:24 pm

Quoting B727FA (Reply 8):
Not exactly. It's a hatch that falls down on a lower sill hinge but stays attached to the a/c. It's the same as the hatch on the 757.

And the 737NG except they hinge up. I guess we can agree its an exit not a door.
 
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RE: Delta Buys 767 N764RD

Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:30 pm

Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 9):
Quoting B727FA (Reply 8):
Not exactly. It's a hatch that falls down on a lower sill hinge but stays attached to the a/c. It's the same as the hatch on the 757.

And the 737NG except they hinge up. I guess we can agree its an exit not a door.

It's the same as the 737-900ER mid cabin door. It's not the same mechanism as the overwing exit and it is larger.
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b727fa
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RE: Delta Buys 767 N764RD

Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:46 pm

Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 9):
And the 737NG except they hinge up. I guess we can agree its an exit not a door.

Except that it's not an OWE. And it doesn't "spring."
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na
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RE: Delta Buys 767 N764RD

Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:42 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 2):

1992 delivery (20 years old)
Been in storage since December 2011
different configuration than any other aircraft in the fleet
at least 9 previous operators

This looks most likely to be a parts plane.

Anything else would be very strange. Buying a 20 year old 767 and operating it is third-world level.
 
catiii
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RE: Delta Buys 767 N764RD

Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:47 pm

Quoting na (Reply 12):
Anything else would be very strange. Buying a 20 year old 767 and operating it is third-world level.

What an utterly ridiculous and uninformed statement. The entire Delta fleet strategy is based upon a mix of pre-owned aircraft with low opportunity costs, and newer proven airframes. A low cycle 763 is entirely within that strategy.
 
B757Forever
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RE: Delta Buys 767 N764RD

Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:03 pm

This is a parts aircraft. Engines, landing gear, flight controls and specific LRUs will be harvested. The rest will go to the fiery furnace!  
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dbo861
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RE: Delta Buys 767 N764RD

Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:10 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 2):

1992 delivery (20 years old)
Been in storage since December 2011
different configuration than any other aircraft in the fleet
at least 9 previous operators

It was 19 years old when it went into storage and was most recently with a charter carrier, do we know much about it life before Ryan? 19 is young still for a 767, and especially if it was with charter carriers, it probably has low utilization. I'm curious if the price was right and this is intended to replace an older, more utilized DL 763ER at the end of its life. How big of a deal is it that is has a different door configuration, especially if they're able to fit the same number of seats as the rest of their 763ERs? It still has pretty good commonality with the rest of DL's 763 fleet.
 
catiii
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RE: Delta Buys 767 N764RD

Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:11 pm

Quoting B757forever (Reply 14):
This is a parts aircraft. Engines, landing gear, flight controls and specific LRUs will be harvested. The rest will go to the fiery furnace!

And you're right. But others who say that a 20-year old airplane is a third world level move, simply don't understand Delta at all.
 
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RE: Delta Buys 767 N764RD

Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:17 pm

I have seen Ryan aircraft at DL's ATL maintenance facility on many occasions. Probably had the contract to maintain them so they would be well aware of exactly what condition the aircraft is in. Plus DL has several 76's in temp storage in the desert they can pul out at any time.
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AeroWesty
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RE: Delta Buys 767 N764RD

Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:17 pm

Quoting dbo861 (Reply 15):
do we know much about it life before Ryan?

Easy enough to see:

http://www.airfleets.net/ficheapp/plane-b767-26204.htm
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aerowrench
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RE: Delta Buys 767 N764RD

Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:21 pm

Is there a 767 fleet coordinator from Delta on here? If not, I would think it safe to assume the aircraft will be placed into revenue service. A different door/exit config hasn't yet stopped Delta:

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Delta...d=21d349da90068b8956c8d86dca772c9f
 
mcg
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RE: Delta Buys 767 N764RD

Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:21 pm

How much did DL pay for this airplane?
 
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Polot
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RE: Delta Buys 767 N764RD

Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:25 pm

Quoting catiii (Reply 16):
And you're right. But others who say that a 20-year old airplane is a third world level move, simply don't understand Delta at all.

How many 20 year old planes has DL bought and put into service?
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: Delta Buys 767 N764RD

Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:26 pm

Quoting Aerowrench (Reply 19):
Is there a 767 fleet coordinator from Delta on here? If not, I would think it safe to assume the aircraft will be placed into revenue service. A different door/exit config hasn't yet stopped Delta:

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Delta...72c9f

Operating only one aircraft with this oddball exit layout doesn't make any economic sense. DL has seven aircraft with the exit layout you posted (6 ex-Gulf Air and one ex-Asiana), and that subfleet seems large enough to be economically feasible.
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aerowrench
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RE: Delta Buys 767 N764RD

Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:30 pm

Quoting Polot (Reply 21):

How many 20 year old planes has DL bought and put into service?

I think airlines look at total time and total cycles before they look at the year of original delivery. Aluminum fatigue is a function of pressurization cycles, not age.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 22):

Operating only one aircraft with this oddball exit layout doesn't make any economic sense. DL has seven aircraft with the exit layout you posted (6 ex-Gulf Air and one ex-Asiana), and that subfleet seems large enough to be economically feasible.

I'm pretty well certain that six of the eight doors installed on the aircraft are identical in nature to the doors on the remainder of Delta's 767 fleet. Even if for some very strange reason Boeing went with a different door design for this particular airplane, I don't think the economics would make much of a difference when compared to what the company has determined to be cost effective. On that note, I'm pretty sure that Delta Airlines knows a thing or two about aircraft acquisition.

[Edited 2013-01-29 13:37:15]
 
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Polot
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RE: Delta Buys 767 N764RD

Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:38 pm

Quoting Aerowrench (Reply 23):
I think airlines look at total time and total cycles before they look at the year of original delivery. Aluminum fatigue is a function of pressurization cycles, not age.

I'll amend my previous statement. How many used widebodies has DL bought and put into service in the past...lets say 5 years?
 
aerowrench
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RE: Delta Buys 767 N764RD

Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:43 pm

Quoting Polot (Reply 24):
I'll amend my previous statement. How many used widebodies has DL bought and put into service in the past...lets say 5 years?

You could argue quite a few when considering all the widebody aircraft that came along with the purchase of Northwest Airlines.
 
rlwynn
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RE: Delta Buys 767 N764RD

Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:44 pm

Quoting Polot (Reply 24):
I'll amend my previous statement. How many used widebodies has DL bought and put into service in the past...lets say 5 years?

How many did they get when they bought all of the NW widebodies?
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Polot
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RE: Delta Buys 767 N764RD

Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:49 pm

Quoting Aerowrench (Reply 25):
You could argue quite a few when considering all the widebody aircraft that came along with the purchase of Northwest Airlines.
Quoting rlwynn (Reply 26):
How many did they get when they bought all of the NW widebodies?

That is a completely different scenario (and only falls within the past 5 years by 4 months  Silly), you guys know what I mean. That said every widebody that DL got from NW was delivered new to NW.

[Edited 2013-01-29 13:51:33]
 
aerowrench
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RE: Delta Buys 767 N764RD

Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:00 pm

Quoting Polot (Reply 27):
That is a completely different scenario (and only falls within the past 5 years by 4 months Silly), you guys know what I mean. That said every widebody that DL got from NW was delivered new to NW.

I really haven't got the slightest clue if they are flying any used widebodies. What I can speculate on however, is that the company may be following the same strategy they have for acquiring narrow body aircraft.
 
deltairlines
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RE: Delta Buys 767 N764RD

Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:10 pm

Quoting Aerowrench (Reply 28):
I really haven't got the slightest clue if they are flying any used widebodies. What I can speculate on however, is that the company may be following the same strategy they have for acquiring narrow body aircraft.

Only used widebodies in the fleet that are used to my knowledge are the 7 76G aircraft (the 6 ex-Gulf and the 1 ex-Asiana).

All 767-400s and 777s were delivered new to Delta; all A330s and 747-400s were delivered new to Northwest and I believe the rest of the 767-300 fleet are -332/-332ERs that would have all been delivered new to Delta.
 
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Polot
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RE: Delta Buys 767 N764RD

Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:12 pm

Quoting deltairlines (Reply 29):
Only used widebodies in the fleet that are used to my knowledge are the 7 76G aircraft (the 6 ex-Gulf and the 1 ex-Asiana).

All of which DL obtained 15 years ago ('97-'98) and were only 3 to 7 years old at the time of their purchase.
 
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RE: Delta Buys 767 N764RD

Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:56 pm

Quoting Polot (Reply 30):
All of which DL obtained 15 years ago ('97-'98) and were only 3 to 7 years old at the time of their purchase.

True, but market conditions have changed in the past 5 years substantially. I could see this as quick and cheap fleet augmentation like when NW got their DC-10-30 fleet, all of which were used (and some a bit older than 3-7 years too).

[Edited 2013-01-29 14:56:22]
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Polot
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RE: Delta Buys 767 N764RD

Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:08 pm

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 31):
True, but market conditions have changed in the past 5 years substantially. I could see this as quick and cheap fleet augmentation like when NW got their DC-10-30 fleet, all of which were used (and some a bit older than 3-7 years too).

Does DL really need to augment their 763ER fleet though? I have seen nothing that suggests that the current fleet is stretched thin or that they are about to undergo a huge international expansion, and they already frequently park 767s during the slower winter season.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Delta Buys 767 N764RD

Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:08 pm

However, DL does not have an immediate need to augment their international widebody fleet.
They have plenty of 767-300ERs and capacity in the current fleet.
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: Delta Buys 767 N764RD

Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:11 pm

Quoting Polot (Reply 32):
Does DL really need to augment their 763ER fleet though? I have seen nothing that suggests that the current fleet is stretched thin or that they are about to undergo a huge international expansion, and they already frequently park 767s during the slower winter season.

I would agree. However, if UA were to retire their 764ERs, DL would surely pick them up in a flash.
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Polot
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RE: Delta Buys 767 N764RD

Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:15 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 34):
I would agree. However, if UA were to retire their 764ERs, DL would surely pick them up in a flash.

True, but I think we both know the chances of that happening anytime soon.
 
akelley728
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RE: Delta Buys 767 N764RD

Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:21 pm

Quoting Polot (Reply 21):
How many 20 year old planes has DL bought and put into service?

Not quite 20 years old but in 2010 Delta aquired the then 17 year-old N624AG (757-2Q8). The Delta TOC refurbished it into a 75E configuration and finally went into service in 2012. It now flies as Delta ship 6818.

DL Signs LOI For An Additional B757-200 (by airbuske Oct 18 2010 in Civil Aviation)
Whatever Happened To N624AG For DL? (by 1337Delta764 Dec 23 2011 in Civil Aviation)
N624AG (DL Ship 6818) Arrives In ATL (by B757forever Mar 7 2012 in Civil Aviation)
 
Viscount724
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RE: Delta Buys 767 N764RD

Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:40 pm

Quoting na (Reply 12):
Buying a 20 year old 767 and operating it is third-world level.

NW acquired many used DC-10-30s in the 1990s and operated them very reliably for another 10 to 12 years. Two ex-KLM aircraft were 23 years old when they went into service with NW.
 
Capt.Fantastic
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RE: Delta Buys 767 N764RD

Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:45 pm

Delta will begin operating 767s on JFK-LAX: Which of Delta's 767s will be used on this route and how will they be configured? Could this aircraft have been obtained for transcon operations? Jun 24 (per the OAG) 4 of the 7 flights are designated "767": The other three are 757-200

[Edited 2013-01-29 15:53:19]
 
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gdg9
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RE: Delta Buys 767 N764RD

Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:58 pm

Quoting mcg (Reply 20):
How much did DL pay for this airplane?

I'd be curious at that figure as well.
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Spacepope
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RE: Delta Buys 767 N764RD

Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:22 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 37):
NW acquired many used DC-10-30s in the 1990s and operated them very reliably for another 10 to 12 years. Two ex-KLM aircraft were 23 years old when they went into service with NW.

Bingo, like I alluded to in reply 31.

Delta puts several hundred hours on its 763 fleet every day. Some of the older 763s must be getting up there in hours.



Quoting Capt.Fantastic (Reply 38):
Delta will begin operating 767s on JFK-LAX: Which of Delta's 767s will be used on this route and how will they be configured?

That route is always said to be the one that celebrities love to take. They are premium pax and usually travel first class. Now that AA is going to narrowbody on the route, I'd say DL is positioning itself to steal those high rollers by offering true widebody FC.
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jbmitt
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RE: Delta Buys 767 N764RD

Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:30 am

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 40):
Delta puts several hundred hours on its 763 fleet every day.

With 94 767's in the fleet.. I'd be willing to bet that they exceed several hundred hours and are into the the 1000s of hours depending on flights and utilization.
 
B757Forever
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RE: Delta Buys 767 N764RD

Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:39 am

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 40):
Some of the older 763s must be getting up there in hours.

Indeed. Ship 171, the first 767-332ER delivered to DL is approaching 23 years in service and has logged over 100,000 hours and around 14,000 cycles and is still in very good condition.
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Spacepope
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RE: Delta Buys 767 N764RD

Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:55 am

Quoting B757forever (Reply 42):
Indeed. Ship 171, the first 767-332ER delivered to DL is approaching 23 years in service and has logged over 100,000 hours and around 14,000 cycles and is still in very good condition.

As of 11/12/2012 she had 104,263 hours and 15,227 cycles. Wow.

That being said, if N764RD got the same TLC from Delta during her time at Ryan as N171DN, she's got plenty of life still in her.
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NorthstarBoy
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RE: Delta Buys 767 N764RD

Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:29 am

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 40):
That route is always said to be the one that celebrities love to take. They are premium pax and usually travel first class. Now that AA is going to narrowbody on the route, I'd say DL is positioning itself to steal those high rollers by offering true widebody FC.

Except that DL does not have a dedicated First, only Business and Coach. From what I understand, AA will be operating a subfleet of 3 class A321s on the Lax-Jfk/Sfo-Jfk vice versa runs much the way UA operates a subfleet of 3 class 757s on their premium transcon service. From what i've read on these boards, the hollywood contracts specifically require 3 class aircraft with dedicated first class cabins. That being said, it will be interesting to see if DL develops a market specific First Class cabin in order to take advantage of those hollywood contracts, and, I agree, being able to advertise 3 class widebody service at a time when AA will be downsizing their transcon aircraft from 762s to A321s would be a good tool to convince the studios to switch their business away from AA and UA and towards Delta.
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Spacepope
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RE: Delta Buys 767 N764RD

Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:12 am

BTW for the record, though it was parked in 12/2011, the last record I can find is from January of that year. 59,809 hours for N764RD, 13,727 cycles.

Lots of "short" hops.
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gatechae
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RE: Delta Buys 767 N764RD

Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:16 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 21):
Operating only one aircraft with this oddball exit layout doesn't make any economic sense. DL has seven aircraft with the exit layout you posted (6 ex-Gulf Air and one ex-Asiana), and that subfleet seems large enough to be economically feasible

Just out of curiosity, how would operating one aircraft with a different interior layout affect DL economically?
 
rwy04lga
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RE: Delta Buys 767 N764RD

Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:27 am

Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 43):
Except that DL does not have a dedicated First

Delta has first class in the US, Business elite internationally.
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deltal1011man
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RE: Delta Buys 767 N764RD

Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:51 am

Quoting Aerowrench (Reply 18):
Is there a 767 fleet coordinator from Delta on here? If not, I would think it safe to assume the aircraft will be placed into revenue service. A different door/exit config hasn't yet stopped Delta:

Its a part out airplane. Delta has more international aircraft than they know what to do with as it is.

Quoting Aerowrench (Reply 22):

I'm pretty well certain that six of the eight doors installed on the aircraft are identical in nature to the doors on the remainder of Delta's 767 fleet. Even if for some very strange reason Boeing went with a different door design for this particular airplane, I don't think the economics would make much of a difference when compared to what the company has determined to be cost effective. On that note, I'm pretty sure that Delta Airlines knows a thing or two about aircraft acquisition.

uhh...ok. This 67 has only doors. The 767-332ERs have two over wing exits, the Gulf air birds have one over wing exit.

Again, this is a bird for parts. Get use to it, because its going to keep happening. (already have a hand full of M80s from SAS for parts, The GOL 762 and 763 and it sounds like at least 1 Lion Air M90 will be used for parts.)

Quoting deltairlines (Reply 28):

you are right.

Quoting Aerowrench (Reply 27):
I really haven't got the slightest clue if they are flying any used widebodies. What I can speculate on however, is that the company may be following the same strategy they have for acquiring narrow body aircraft.

They aren't. And Delta isn't adding 20 year old aircraft. (minus 6818)
The M90s are half the age of this airplane.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 33):
I would agree. However, if UA were to retire their 764ERs, DL would surely pick them up in a flash.

You hope.
At this point, not likely. Delta has more international airplanes than they can find routes for. They are cutting Europe capacity....which is about the only useful place a 764 can fly for Delta. (and it is only going to get worse once all the lie-flat mods are done)

Quoting Capt.Fantastic (Reply 37):
Delta will begin operating 767s on JFK-LAX: Which of Delta's 767s will be used on this route and how will they be configured? Could this aircraft have been obtained for transcon operations? Jun 24 (per the OAG) 4 of the 7 flights are designated "767": The other three are 757-200

Delta will use 767s in fleet for this. 76Z config. This aircraft is for parts.

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 39):

That route is always said to be the one that celebrities love to take. They are premium pax and usually travel first class. Now that AA is going to narrowbody on the route, I'd say DL is positioning itself to steal those high rollers by offering true widebody FC.

Delta isn't adding first to T-cons. JFK-LAX/SFO/SEA will see flat-bed BusinessElite 767/757s that are already in the fleet.

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 42):
That being said, if N764RD got the same TLC from Delta during her time at Ryan as N171DN, she's got plenty of life still in her.

but that isn't going to happen. This 767, the 767s from GOL and the M80s from SAS are for parts.

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 46):
Delta has first class in the US, Business elite internationally.

not on NYC-tcons, Its BusinessElite.  
New airliners.net web site sucks.
 
cslusarc
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RE: Delta Buys 767 N764RD

Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:14 am

Given that DL has bought this ex-RD aircraft, do you think that it would be a good idea if DL bought from IFLC the Airbus A330 (MSN 343 - N772RD) that RD also operated? I think that DL would love to have this PW-powered 332 that was first delivered to SR because DL would benefit a larger fleet of 330s.
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lufbra
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RE: Delta Buys 767 N764RD

Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:37 am

isn't this the G-configuration? Delta purchased old Gulf Air aircrafts long time ago and they, also, don't have overwing exits.