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TK787
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Turkish Aviation February 2013

Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:34 am

Hello everyone,
I see a light at the end of the tunnel and it is called Spring  
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jason Whitebird



Here is a TK bird in LAS, one of the cities on my wishlist (IST-LAS)
Maybe someone knows about this diversion.

-More routes
-News of 5 options on 333s turning into orders
-Is this the month we finally get a 100 NB TK order?

Please continue with your news, photos, rumors, and good old sense of humor.
Welcome.

[Edited 2013-01-31 17:36:46]
 
emrecan
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2013

Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:29 am

TK has launched flights LBV via DLA and CMB via MLE as of today...
 
TurkishWings
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2013

Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:24 am

Quoting TK787 (Thread starter):

Here is a TK bird in LAS, one of the cities on my wishlist (IST-LAS)

Stronger than expected headwinds?

Happened to me once between MUC and LAX but that was on a 343.
Coffee - Tea or Me?
 
LLA001
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2013

Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:35 pm

if it is mentioned before my apologies,

There is a really nice page at facebook with photos of old Turkish airlines aircaft as well as personnel,

https://www.facebook.com/TurkHavaYollariRetroJetimiGeriIstiyorum
 
tk1244
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2013

Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:14 pm

Quoting LLA001 (Reply 3):
There is a really nice page at facebook with photos of old Turkish airlines aircaft as well as personnel

Yes, they have some great pictures around there! Love that page  
"The future is in the skies. For any nation that cannot defend its skies will never be confident of its future." Atatürk
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2013

Sat Feb 02, 2013 1:05 am

Quoting TK787 (Thread starter):
-News of 5 options on 333s turning into orders

So, as per TK page;
2 x firm 333s in 2014, and 3 more options to be delivered 2015-2016.
So this means, 2 x 333s this year and 6 x 333s in 2014 for sure.

[Edited 2013-02-01 17:09:05]
 
777way
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2013

Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:23 am

 
tk1244
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2013

Sat Feb 02, 2013 6:05 pm

Quoting 777way (Reply 6):

I'm disappointed!
"The future is in the skies. For any nation that cannot defend its skies will never be confident of its future." Atatürk
 
Tupolev160
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2013

Sun Feb 03, 2013 5:18 pm

Quoting TK787 (Thread starter):
Please continue with your...good old sense of humor.

Sure we will  
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
 
boun
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2013

Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:45 pm

I had to got to Samsun for business the other day, flew SZF-ESB-IST last night. The first leg, operated by Anadolu Jet, was spectacular in terms of cabin crew. The crew was wonderful, all of them were smiling and were extremely kind during the 40 min flight. One of the attendants constantly threw jokes all over the place. This is only one example to draw a conclusion but maybe the crews are starting to break the "cold, unsmiling, unkind" image that they've created over the years.

ESB-IST was the last flight of the day. This time the crew were average. Still, better than many times before. The only bad side of the journey was the congestion in IST. Our trip was one and a half hour long, which is way longer than last time I took the same flight (45 mins?) We had to circle many times during our approach.

One thing that caught my attention was the welcome announcement. As you know it has been executed by the cockpit crew for some time. They now include "children" in their announcements, which is very sweet I think. Overall, kudos to TK this time. I was very satisfied.

[Edited 2013-02-03 14:23:30]
 
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OA260
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2013

Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:24 pm

Quoting TK787 (Thread starter):
I see a light at the end of the tunnel and it is called Spring  

Not here in Ireland sadly  

Thanks for a new thread. TK have a dedicated FB page for Ireland now and at the recent holiday show they teamed up with a local radio station to broadcast live. TK also qualified for a rebate from the Dublin Airport due to a scheme in place where airlines that grow their business get rewarded for it. A big advertising campaign is also on with full branding of the Airport express buses.

With fares from EUR179 its often cheaper to get to IST than to the UK ! With the increase of flights from DUB lets hope its a good 2013 for TK here.
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2013

Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:28 pm

Quoting boun (Reply 9):
They now include "children" in their announcements,

Pegasus was the original... "Ladies, Gentlemen and children......" greeting I think.
 
umit
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2013

Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:33 am

For the winter break of my doughter , i used my hard earned miles to take her to london on j class.now i am at the airport for tk1985 and plane switched from 330-300 to 738 .. Lets see if they are going to make another last minute change  
 
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OA260
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2013

Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:00 am

Quoting umit (Reply 12):
i used my hard earned miles to take her to london on j class.now i am at the airport for tk1985 and plane switched from 330-300 to 738 .. Lets see if they are going to make another last minute change

I can understand how dissapointing that would be especially in terms of seat product but that has always been an issue on the route.
 
leftyboarder
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2013

Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:45 am

Thanks for the new thread!

MRS is in the works, with an announcement imminent. Ticket sales may start as early as next week, the following article states:

http://www.maritima.info/depeches/ec...170-destinations-a-marignane-.html
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2013

Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:54 pm

Quoting umit (Reply 12):
tk1985 and plane switched from 330-300 to 738 .

That is just terrible, especially you wanted to make this a special trip.
Personally this only happened to me once in the US. I had a first class ticket on a 757 with DL and after boarding the plane they had a technical problem and we had to wait for another 757, which came with a different seat config, with less F seats. I don't know how it happened but I was assigned a F seat. But not all original F pax got F seats.
I would be bummed.

Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 14):
MRS is in the works,

IIRC, AF tried this route and couldn't make it work last year and closed it. TK never served it??? Anyone else nonstop on this route?
Thanks.
 
gokmengs
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2013

Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:06 pm

Quoting boun (Reply 9):
Quoting TK787 (Reply 11):

They actually use the term " ladies, gentleman, and adorable children" on my last 4 flights thats what I've heard. I think it's a nice touch.

Quoting umit (Reply 12):

I would be so upset over this, since the product difference is day and night. I am all for TK utilizing its fleet to the max, but I also think certain routes you don't wat to mess with, especially if you have your eyes set on top level in everything. LHR route certainly would be one of those routes.
Gercekleri Tarih Yazar Tarihide Galatasaray
 
leftyboarder
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2013

Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:25 pm

Quoting TK787 (Reply 15):
IIRC, AF tried this route and couldn't make it work last year and closed it. TK never served it??? Anyone else nonstop on this route?
Thanks.

AFAIK TK never served this route. I expect it to be wildly popular with rich Arabs, a la NCE. PC serves SAW-MRS.
 
bahadir
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2013

Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:37 pm

Quoting boun (Reply 9):

I had to got to Samsun for business the other day, flew SZF-ESB-IST last night. The first leg, operated by Anadolu Jet,

I bet it was operated by SunExpress. Did you pay attention who the operator was?
Turkish Airlines is a mad house when it comes to the corporate backstabbing and taking themselves too serious.
Earthbound misfit I
 
SCQ83
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2013

Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:58 pm

Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 17):
AFAIK TK never served this route. I expect it to be wildly popular with rich Arabs, a la NCE. PC serves SAW-MRS.

The kind of Arabs going to MRS and NCE are substantially different. NCE is the gateway to Monaco and Cote d'Azur, a must-do for any Gulf national (and in this case, TK/IST is a great connection point with the number of places they serve in the region).

MRS has a large community of Moroccans and Algerians who are not necessarily splurging, even if some people from the Gulf might end in St Cyr or Bandol... I guess the numbers are not really that significant. And I can't see how those heading to Algeria would connect in IST.

Though it doesn't mean that TK cannot make MRS work... since they serve so many other destinations in France and Europe, at the end of the day Marseille is France's 3rd or 4th largest city.
 
santos
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2013

Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:02 pm

LIS-IST to go from daily to 10xWeekly from April, some flights will be operated by the A321 instead of the usual B737-800.
OPO-IST rumoured to start around easter 2014.

News story only in portuguese(sorry):
http://www.presstur.com/site/news.asp?news=40854
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2013

Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:42 pm

Quoting santos (Reply 20):
OPO-IST rumoured to start around easter 2014.

This is the first time I hear this mention of OPO.
 
umit
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2013

Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:54 pm

Very old looking 738 , kahramanmaras , i wonder how old it is.? Vey turbolent rouge we had also
 
boun
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2013

Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:54 pm

Quoting bahadir (Reply 18):
I bet it was operated by SunExpress. Did you pay attention who the operator was?
Turkish Airlines is a mad house when it comes to the corporate backstabbing and taking themselves too serious.

The plane was TC-JKR, that's all I can say. It is still registered to Anadolu Jet , so no change in ownership and lease back ,maybe that can help.

Apart from that just got curious about the difference seatings in the 737 fleet. TC-JGZ operated my trip to Samsun and the seats were interesting. The color of the seats were navy blue (just like the old ones) but the seats themselves were like the turquoise-colored seats with headrests. So we have the old navy blue SICMA ones, newer turquoise ones, regular J seated ones plus others? Sorry if is complicated.
 
SCQ83
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2013

Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:14 pm

Quoting TK787 (Reply 21):

Not really, when SCQ was announced, TK's CEO already mentioned to the local press OPO for 2014 and LIS increasing ops from this summer.
 
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OA260
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2013

Mon Feb 04, 2013 7:43 pm

Quoting gokmengs (Reply 16):
LHR route certainly would be one of those routes.

Indeed you can imagine what the feedback was when they had F Class and downgraded.
 
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SQ22
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2013

Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:14 pm

 
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OA260
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2013

Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:26 pm

Quoting SQ22 (Reply 26):

Link wont load for me .

Another article here :

EADS : Turkish Airlines orders five additional A330 passenger aircraft

Turkish Airlines has signed a firm order for two additional A330-300 passenger aircraft and three options as part of the carrier's continued growth plans. The additional order for the A330 Family is taking their total firm order for the type to 38. Turkish Airlines placed their first order with Airbus in 1984, and today operate 104 Airbus in total.

http://www.4-traders.com/EADS-4637/n...-A330-passenger-aircraft-16008339/
 
tk1244
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2013

Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:09 pm

Quoting umit (Reply 22):
Very old looking 738 , kahramanmaras , i wonder how old it is.? Vey turbolent rouge we had also

TC-JGS "Kahramanmaraş": Almost 7 years old, delivered to TK on 27 July 2006

Quoting SQ22 (Reply 26):
Haven't read this here before:
http://www.eads.com/eads/int/en/news....html

I thought it was only two additional planes.
"The future is in the skies. For any nation that cannot defend its skies will never be confident of its future." Atatürk
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2013

Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:48 pm

Quoting SQ22 (Reply 26):
Haven't read this here before:
Quoting TK787 (Reply 5):
Quoting TK787 (Thread starter):
-News of 5 options on 333s turning into orders

So, as per TK page;
2 x firm 333s in 2014, and 3 more options to be delivered 2015-2016.
So this means, 2 x 333s this year and 6 x 333s in 2014 for sure.


I guess it is easy to get confused;
-Is this TK exercising options from the original 15 + 5 Options? Making it 17 + 3 options

or

- 15 + 5 Options and and additional 2 + 3 Options? Making it 17 + 8 Options

I think it is the first option; TK taking 2 of those original 5 options, and will confirm 3 more shortly for a total of 20 333s,
just like the 77Ws.

[Edited 2013-02-04 13:52:30]
 
leftyboarder
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2013

Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:34 am

TK continues to expand at SAW... If only we could see something similar at ESB  

Istanbul Sabiha Gokcen – Baku eff 03MAY13 4 weekly, daily from 02JUN13
TK340 SAW2300 – 0345+1GYD 738 x137
TK341 GYD0525 – 0630SAW 738 x124

Service operates dialy from 02JUN13, while overall Baku service raises to 5 daily

Istanbul Sabiha Gokcen – Kuwait eff 31MAR13 5 weekly, daily from 04JUN13
TK764 SAW2215 – 0140+1KWI 738 x25
TK765 KWI0240 – 0615SAW 738 x36

Service operates daily from 04JUN13, while overall Kuwait service raises to 4 daily

Istanbul Sabiha Gokcen – Tbilisi eff 03MAY13 4 weekly, daily from 02JUN13
TK380 SAW0055 – 0350TBS 738 x367
TK381 TBS0640 – 0805SAW 738 x367

Service operates daily from 02JUN13, while overall Tbilisi service raises to 4 daily

source: airlineroute.net
 
stylo777
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2013

Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:22 am

Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 30):
stanbul Sabiha Gokcen – Baku eff 03MAY13 4 weekly, daily from 02JUN13
TK340 SAW2300 – 0345+1GYD 738 x137
TK341 GYD0525 – 0630SAW 738 x124

I looked up the schedule for Baku the other day and was quite amazed about the amount of flights between both cities:
from IST 4x TK and 2x J2, SAW has another 2x daily J2 (those two flights are btw codeshared by PC)


Carrier Flight From Depart To Arrive A/C St Frequency | Dur'n | Dep T | Arr T | Effect | Ending | Exceptions
--------- ------ ---- -------- ---- -------- --- -- ----------------------------------------------------------------
TK 338 IST 01:15 GYD 05:55 738 0 1234567 02:40 I - 29 Oct 30 Mar
TK 332 IST 08:50 GYD 13:30 738 0 1234567 02:40 I - 29 Oct 30 Mar
J2 88 SAW 11:20 GYD 16:05 320 0 1234567 02:45 - - 10 Feb 28 Feb
J2 76 IST 12:20 GYD 17:00 767 0 1234567 02:40 I - 09 Feb 22 Mar
TK 334 IST 14:55 GYD 19:35 738 0 1234567 02:40 I - 08 Nov 30 Mar
J2 90 SAW 20:55 GYD 01:40 +1 320 0 1234567 02:45 - - 10 Feb 28 Feb
TK 336 IST 22:35 GYD 03:15 +1 738 0 1234567 02:40 I - 29 Jan 30 Mar
J2 78 IST 22:50 GYD 03:30 +1 767 0 1234567 02:40 I - 11 Feb 28 Feb
 
gkirk
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2013

Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:25 am

I believe TK are increasing EDI-IST to daily this summer? Equipment varies depending on booked load, but usually scheduled as an A319.
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
TurkishSky
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2013

Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:26 am

Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 30):
overall Kuwait service raises to 4 daily

5 daily from June 17
Flown 4I 9U AA AB AF AZ BA BD BR CA CU CX EI FR HV JK JP JU KK KL KM LH LX MA ME MS NG OA OK QR OS RJ RO SA SK SQ SR SU
 
leftyboarder
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2013

Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:59 am

New year, but same old IST... January 2013 numbers for all airports released by DHMI on dhmi.gov.tr/istatistik and, no surprises - IST growing over 20% yet again. If it stays above 15%, we might see it overtake AMS and MAD this year to become 4th most used in Europe.

Here's a quick recap:

IST
Dom 1,232,754 up 13%
Int'l 2,337,828 up 26%

ESB
Dom 666,965 up 5%
Int'l 103,240 up 16%

ADB
Dom 576,283 up 10%
Int'l 72,107 down 9%

SAW
Dom 738,515 up 4%
Int'l 361,816 up 25%

AYT
Dom 363,241 flat
Int'l 229,945 down 8%

Total
Dom 5,181,175 up 7,8%
Int'l 3,199,596 up 20,9%

IST handles 73% of all int'l traffic (strong seasonality at AYT has to be taken into consideration), as opposed to 24% of all dom traffic.
 
Turkish350XWB
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2013

Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:09 pm

Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 34):
New year, but same old IST... January 2013 numbers for all airports released by DHMI on dhmi.gov.tr/istatistik and, no surprises - IST growing over 20% yet again. If it stays above 15%, we might see it overtake AMS and MAD this year to become 4th most used in Europe.

IST overtaking MAD is almost for sure. For AMS it need to grow at least to 52 million pax which equals approx to 16 % growths in 2013.
The difference between Jan 12 and Jan 13 is 625.547, so Feb12-Jan13 pax numbers for IST is 44.998.508 + 625.547 = 45.624.055.
 
LLA001
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2013

Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:39 pm

This sunday my flight from ADA to SAW on Anadolu Jet was my 500th flight ( thanks to my father, my flights are logged since I was 3 months old). I am 33 and for some of you here 500 flights as a passenger is not much but for me to spend 55 days of my 33 years at air is a lot  

of that 500 flights, 226 was with TK, 17 with Anadolu Jet, 17 with Pegasus, 2 with Istanbul Air, 2 with Maş Air and once with short lived VIP Air, so almost more than half of my flights, thanks a lot to Turkish aviaton for that  

It is still a dream for me to read these growth numbers mentioned at Turkish aviation forums here. In my childhood there were only 20-25 jet airlines servicing the whole country where now it is almost 10-15 times more than that and it is still growing.

I am really hoping this growth could be sustained in the future. I still can not make the judgement if the growth of TK and Istanbul airport is a business success story or just an inflated baloon about to explode. Same goes for Pegasus which became a significant airline in a relatively short time and has a lot of potential to become really successful and has potential to be a failure at the same time.

So, are these days the Golden Age of Turkish Aviation where we will remember as the good old days, or are there even better times which is waiting for us?
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2013

Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:54 pm

Quoting LLA001 (Reply 36):

Congrats on the 500th flight and lucky you that your father started the tradition.
Interesting times are still ahead I say; here is an optimistic picture.
-Next couple of decades we will see Istanbul to be a major hub
-TK to have a sizable fleet and flying to all continents.
-If there was a long lasting Middle East peace, just imagine the possibilities of air transport.
-If there was a relaxing of the visa requirements to Europe, just imagine the possibilities.
-TK to finally absorb the expansion and pay more attention to service, quality, safety and consistency.
-We might see other Turkish carriers flying Wide Bodies.
-There might be RJs doing domestic thin routes.
-Hopefully most jets by then might be using alternative fuels
 
radiopolitic
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2013

Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:42 pm

http://emlak.haber7.com/emlak-gundem...valimani-arazisi-yesil-alan-olacak

According to Erdogan, after the move to the new airport is complete the Ataturk airport grounds will be modified to allow for private jets and a large green space.
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2013

Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:51 pm

MRS to start on June 4th and here is the list of announced but not started wishlist of cities by TK.
How come there is no Detroit, Atlanta on this list?
By the way, the list is getting short, time for more cities from TK I say,  

Luxor
Aswan
Gassim
Rotterdam
Abha
Malta
Asmara
Kharkiv
Luanda
Abuja
Kano
Caracas
Mexico
Boston
Havana
San Francisco
Montreal
Njamena
Juba
Katmandu
Masar-i-Sharif
Friedrichshafen
Lankaran
Bogota
Bamako
Krakow

Just took out Aqaba from the list, thanks" Leftyboarder."

[Edited 2013-02-06 05:07:41]
 
leftyboarder
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2013

Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:01 pm

Quoting TK787 (Reply 39):

Cross Aqaba off that list   BTW, I think DTW never made it to the announcements page on TK website. ATL, I think they've given up due to the difficulties of a 1-stop operation to the US.
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2013

Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:08 pm

Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 40):
difficulties of a 1-stop operation to the US.

Why one-stop? I was thinking of a possible IST-ATL, not a tag-on to IAD.
 
leftyboarder
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2013

Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:14 pm

Quoting TK787 (Reply 41):
Why one-stop? I was thinking of a possible IST-ATL, not a tag-on to IAD.

I assumed that would be the case since that was the original plan... But if they eventually try it nonstop, even better!
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2013

Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:59 pm

Mileage Help please???
So, I left DL Skymiles for Turkey flights and started flying TK mostly to IST, putting those miles toward UA Mileage Plus.
After a year, I found out that I can't get to a Premier Level with those miles, since I haven't flown any UA flights.

What to do from now on?
I hardly ever fly UA, mostly DL domestic, TK to Istanbul.
Switch to Miles and Smiles?

Thanks in advance.
TK787
 
stylo777
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2013

Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:51 pm

Quoting TK787 (Reply 43):

judging by the amount of flights to IST you take throughout the it does make sense to switch to miles and smiles. if you have any status with mileage plus ask them to match it. i hear that they are very keen to match statuses.
 
gokmengs
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2013

Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:22 pm

Quoting TK787 (Reply 43):

Hey man it seems we are exactly in the same situation, I'm DL PMM but after freq reduction I made the switch on my IST Flights starting on December. Prior to that I tried status match with miles smiles and have't heard anything from that. Yet forums say they do it. I am working on it hopefully it will work. These kind of customer service things are when you get frustrated with TK, but the product to IST is enough for you to forgive them 
Gercekleri Tarih Yazar Tarihide Galatasaray
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2013

Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:23 pm

Thanks guys,
Still debating, but looks like I might keep UA Mileage Plus instead of Miles and Smiles, since USA is home and I have more chance of choosing UA from now on and eventually combine all miles under one program.
 
CaliAtenza
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2013

Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:41 pm

Quoting TK787 (Reply 39):

Hopefully Bangalore is announced soon. Fares to the subcontinent are getting pricey from LAX.
 
LLA001
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2013

Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:47 am

Quoting TK787 (Reply 37):

Thank you  

I hope the progress continues as you have layed out nicely, the only thing I wish in this progress is to see a 747 in TK colors, a dream since my childhood,
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2013

Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:25 pm

Never thought about this, but it could happen, right?
After seeing this other thread about AC having a high density 77W;
Air Canada Launches New 458-Seater 77W (by KarelXWB Feb 7 2013 in Civil Aviation)

One day TK could shrink the Comfort class and add more 3-3-3 Y class and it would be like this;

28J/21Comfort/357Y ,Ouch! (I'm not even saying they could try 3-4-3, that would make 398Yseats!!)

That means a better chance of filling the Comfort Class seats with higher paying pax (increased revenue)
also increasing the seat capacity of the plane by 20%. (increased revenue)
That would also mean less cargo space?, maybe reduced range? and a terrible experience for everyone, incl. crew.

Today, TK doesn't need this high capacity but who knows??

Fingers crossed, hope this never happens!