iowaman
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Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 5

Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:25 pm

Please continue the discussion here as part 4 was getting quite lengthy.

Previous thread:

Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4 (by PHX787 Dec 14 2012 in Civil Aviation)
 
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 5

Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:33 pm

Welcome to part five!

If you guys haven't already be sure to "like" PHX Spotters on Facebook.


As you know already i got accepted into Sophia university in Tokyo and will be leaving in march. I am sad but I will continue to be an admin on PHX spotters and continue this thread. I will need this thread more than ever to keep up with aviation news coming out of here  


From the last thread:
quoting aztrainer:
I believe it is a seasonal thing and will go back 7 days a week soon

I see that's good  
I think the ELT was a false alarm. Someone said that the ABX plane reported it "3 miles behind" which would have been right at sky harbor so I guess everything is ok.


See you guys around here   PM me if you want to go spotting somewhere sometime.
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dlramp4life
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 5

Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:07 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 1):
From the last thread:
quoting aztrainer:
I believe it is a seasonal thing and will go back 7 days a week soon

But it just went to seven days a week in December..
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atcsundevil
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 5

Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:09 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 1):
Someone said that the ABX plane reported it "3 miles behind" which would have been right at sky harbor so I guess everything is ok.

2.5mi is minimum separation at P50/PHX ATCT on final provided traffic is visual. FAA allows facilities to drop below 3.0mi (standard separation on final) provided the average Runway Occupancy Time is ≥ 50secs over 250 landings for each primary landing runway in each direction -- so 1,000 landings total for 8, 26, 7R, and 25L. I know this because I was the lucky SOB intern who got to spend the better part of a month up in PHX ATCT to record that average a few years ago. Go me   . I won't name names (cough, anything Airbus), but some aircraft are completely crap at getting the hell off of the runway.

Anyway, 3.0-2.5mi in-trail of a large aircraft provided the trail aircraft is a large or heavy is actually a good thing...anything more than a 3.0 mile hole on final is considered unacceptable at places like NY Approach, SOCAL, Chicago, etc. As long as the in-trail aircraft is the same weight class or heavier, 2.5+ mi is legal. If ABX actually complained about 3.0mi in-trail, tough s**t.
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aztrainer
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 5

Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:07 pm

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 2):
But it just went to seven days a week in December..

Could this just be a bump for seasonal holiday traffic and then goes back down to 6 times a week. I thought that it picks back up to seven days a week in March. I just looked at the first week in March and it is seven days a week.
 
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 5

Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:21 pm

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 4):
Could this just be a bump for seasonal holiday traffic and then goes back down to 6 times a week. I thought that it picks back up to seven days a week in March. I just looked at the first week in March and it is seven days a week.


There were several weeks over the slower winter months where the route was scheduled to run only 6 times per week. The route goes daily again February 12th.
 
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 5

Sun Feb 03, 2013 5:08 pm

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 3):

The Abex was taking off and was completing a turn to the east.....
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 5

Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:46 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 6):
The Abex was taking off and was completing a turn to the east.....

Still visual. As long as there's 15 degrees of diversion or the lateral separation is increasing to 4mi, it's legal and very common. Provided the lead aircraft isn't a heavy and they are on opposite departures (half of the SIDS turn north, the other half south), the trail aircraft can be cleared for takeoff when the lead aircraft >6,000' down the runway and rotating. Everything at PHX is visual so there's a lot of leeway on separation standards.
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 5

Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:52 pm

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 3):
If ABX actually complained about 3.0mi in-trail, tough s**t.

Nothing was ever said about separation:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 1):
I think the ELT was a false alarm. Someone said that the ABX plane reported it "3 miles behind"

ELT = Emergency Locator Transmitter. P50 was getting a hit on one, and per procedure asked other flights to help ping where it was coming from.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 5

Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:03 am

OK I was walking on University drive by ASU earlier and I saw a UPS 767 flying around back and forth, right and left, in some odd pattern, and looked like it was stalling before the aircraft began to rev up again and continued for a landing---it was also very very low.

Now what was going on here?
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 5

Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:23 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 9):
OK I was walking on University drive by ASU earlier and I saw a UPS 767 flying around back and forth, right and left, in some odd pattern, and looked like it was stalling before the aircraft began to rev up again and continued for a landing---it was also very very low.

Now what was going on here?

Perhaps it was performing a maneuver to slow down and increase separation before landing? Outside of that, I'm not sure.
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 5

Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:36 am

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 10):
Perhaps it was performing a maneuver to slow down and increase separation before landing? Outside of that, I'm not sure.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/UPS2876/history/20130205/2135Z/KSDF/KPHX

At the very end he yawed to the right then back to the left, but it looked like he was already going quite slow
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 5

Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:06 am

So with F9 outsourcing all outstations (including PHX) will they just pack up ship and move their operations to AZA?
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 5

Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:57 pm

Plane crash at Casa Grande airport today leaving two souls deceased  
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 5

Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:44 pm

Media is reporting that the aircraft involved in the crash at CGZ was a Beechcraft King Air registered to a company in Tucson. No other identification has been released at this time.
 
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 5

Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:52 am

N908NN Landed just now (New livery AA) and is departing tomorrow morning at 9:25 per PHX Spotters. Anyone who's gonna make it out there, I'll be there  
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 5

Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:09 am

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=430192957057266&set=pb.119493661460532.-2207520000.1360217300&type=3&theater

Not a fan of the new scheme, not a fan of it at all
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 5

Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:48 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 9):
Now what was going on here?

Sounds like S turns either to lose altitude or increase separation. I've had them happen on occasion coming in to TUS.

Speaking of TUS, if anyone cares, Southwest Shamu 1, 334SW, is sitting on pallets, devoid of gear and engines at the old Hamilton ramp. They've really started bringing in a lot of new frames. Old Vietnam Airlines A320s, an Air Moldova A320, a Northern Air Cargo 733, plus a bunch of WN 733s. Saw them when I landed here this afternoon.
 
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 5

Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:37 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 9):
Quoting chrisair (Reply 17):
Sounds like S turns either to lose altitude or increase separation.

Most likely for separation. It's a very common practice that can buy the tower ("local") controller some breathing room. When things get busy, they sometimes happen every few minutes. Since they won't usually ask for a speed change (nor would it generally make enough of a difference on final), an S turn can open up a big gap.

I doubt it would be for altitude unless something weird happened (e.g. wind, vector from go-around, somebody blew it, etc.).
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 5

Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:17 pm

Allegiant Hawaii from AZA starts tomorrow morning (arrives this evening). Leaves at 7:30am.
 
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 5

Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:22 am

Since we can't reply to the other thread about AA/US   PHX787: the SkyTrain extension for T3 will open in 2015. Looks like they're making good progress on it.

Now, I think the real question is when will the SkyTrain actually open. It wasn't Feb 5 like the bus driver predicted late last month.
 
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 5

Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:01 am

Quoting Raventech (Reply 19):
Allegiant Hawaii from AZA starts tomorrow morning (arrives this evening). Leaves at 7:30am.

Indeed it does, I wonder what load factors are like

Quoting PHX787 from the T3 T4 thread: "Well they're not modernized like international gates at, lets say, LAX, DFW, DTW, etc etc. 2 boarding bridges, separate concourse hallways for arrivals and departures, lounge right by the departure area, etc etc"

I do not know how the international process works unlike ATL,LAX,BOS,etc but why fix the system if it is not broken. It seems to be working fine besides how much more can they do on the international area?

[Edited 2013-02-07 23:18:02]
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 5

Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:33 am

Guys lets just keep the impact stuff on the master thread for now. I think Jetblueguy22 had a good idea there. But the questions raised here have nothing to do with the impact.

Quoting chrisair (Reply 20):
PHX787: the SkyTrain extension for T3 will open in 2015. Looks like they're making good progress on it.

Yeah indeed, you can clearly see where the sky train station for t3 will be.

Quoting chrisair (Reply 20):
Now, I think the real question is when will the SkyTrain actually open. It wasn't Feb 5 like the bus driver predicted late last month.

Last I heard it's Feb. 20, from a guy from US Airways.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 21):
I do not know how the international process works unlike ATL,LAX,BOS,etc but why fix the system if it is not broken. It seems to be working fine besides how much more can they do on the international area?

Well it's not fixing a broken object, it's improving an already decent service. I think two jetbridges serving the BA 744 would probably make things a bit better. Last I heard it takes forever to board that thing.
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 5

Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:40 am

There isn't much room nor need for dual jetways for one lonely BA flight, or even for any future service. Many airports around the world seem to get away with only one. Also, the BA lounge is, like, right above the concourse in PHX.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 21):
It seems to be working fine besides how much more can they do on the international area?

Not much, unless they want to widen the concourse or extend and somehow utilize the third level for a boarding area.
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 5

Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:53 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 22):
Last I heard it's Feb. 20, from a guy from US Airways.

I'll believe it when I see it actually carrying people.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 22):
I think two jetbridges serving the BA 744 would probably make things a bit better.

I think most gates at LAX are only using one jetbridge. At least the main ones in use currently.
 
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 5

Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:23 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeCr9B4RFqA

Check out the video around 21:00. They talk about the T3 redevelopment plans. Some screens from the presenation:

Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
 
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 5

Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:39 pm

Quoting wn676 (Reply 25):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeCr9B4RFqA

Check out the video around 21:00. They talk about the T3 redevelopment plans. Some screens from the presenation:


That looks very interesting, Seems like a viable solution for Skyharbor. Close T2 and expand T3, and if need be expand T4 as well. It would make PHX a nice airport to travel through.
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 5

Fri Feb 08, 2013 6:48 pm

Everyone keeps talking about expanding T4. Once the last wing is built, west of the D gates, there's nowhere else to go for T4.

I'll sure be sad for T2 to go. That parking setup is the best around. Plane to car in

[Edited 2013-02-08 10:49:08]
 
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 5

Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:16 pm

Quoting wn676 (Reply 25):

Looks very nice.. Hope it gets approved.
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 5

Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:42 pm

The aircraft involved in the crash at CZG on 06FEB13 has been identified as a 1997 Beech E-90 King Air N555FV. The identities of the two deceased has not been released.

http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=153103
 
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 5

Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:42 am

Has anyone been able to catch the G4 757 at IWA? Honolulu service should of started by now
 
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 5

Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:18 am

Quoting AllegiantFlyer (Reply 30):


Has anyone been able to catch the G4 757 at IWA? Honolulu service should of started by now


The first AZA-HNL flight departed at 7:30 this morning, I'm hoping to try and see it on Monday when it departs. The flight times being used are not good to taking pictures unfortunately.
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 5

Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:09 am

http://flightaware.com/live/findflight/KIFP/KIWA

What's a republic e jet doing at gateway?
 
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 5

Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:39 am

Quoting 93Sierra (Reply 32):

What's a republic e jet doing at gateway?

Probably a charter.
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 5

Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:54 am

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 31):

I was there this morning and got some pics, will post any good ones once I get them back (old school film camera).
 
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 5

Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:24 pm

Quoting 93Sierra (Reply 32):
http://flightaware.com/live/findflight/KIFP/KIWA

What's a republic e jet doing at gateway?

Republic is going to be flying the casino charters now since they won the contract. The routes were being flown by G4 MD-87s. I'm assuming that's why it was here.
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 5

Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:28 am

So anyone grab a photo of the G4 at AZA going to HNL?

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 35):
Republic is going to be flying the casino charters now since they won the contract. The routes were being flown by G4 MD-87s. I'm assuming that's why it was here.

I didn't think G4 operated those?
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 5

Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:52 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 36):
I didn't think G4 operated those?

They have three, N945MA, N948MA and N949MA,They are set to be retired in March I believe, since they lost the casino contract to Republic. When G4 first started flying to AZA in 2007 they used the two MD-87s for the service. I flew on 948MA when the service started, and I have to say those 87s are like rockets.

[Edited 2013-02-10 20:57:41]
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 5

Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:57 am

Got these on the first flight Friday morning.

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa196/tech44290/p1_zps3bcd3bac.png
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa196/tech44290/p2_zpsd8ca321e.png
 
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 5

Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:20 pm

Quoting wn676 (Reply 25):

It's a neat concept but I think that's all it'll be. T2 needs to close, but given the work put into it in recent years and the new fandangled walkway from the Sky Train, it suggests they don't want to give it up for a while. With the $1b+ price tag on the Sky Train, I'm not sure they can justify spending another half billion to add no new growth (not that it's needed). The potential US/AA merger adds some skepticism too, because if they make cuts, T2 could potentially close without needing to replace the gates.

I think it's a great idea with less than great timing, so we'll have to see what happens. Something needs to happen though -- that whole West Terminal thing ain't happening by 2020.

Quoting Raventech (Reply 38):

Nice pics! I'm of the opinion that the 757 with winglets is one of the better looking airplanes out there, so I'm looking forward to seeing something other than the slew of Maddogs and stupid Airbii.
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 5

Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:45 pm

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 39):
It's a neat concept but I think that's all it'll be. T2 needs to close, but given the work put into it in recent years and the new fandangled walkway from the Sky Train, it suggests they don't want to give it up for a while. With the $1b+ price tag on the Sky Train, I'm not sure they can justify spending another half billion to add no new growth (not that it's needed). The potential US/AA merger adds some skepticism too, because if they make cuts, T2 could potentially close without needing to replace the gates.

But alot of those projects need to be done because of current capacity in the terminal. Security is a nightmare when it gets backed up. There is a serious lack of concessions post security. Some things on the project can be held off like moving the ticket counters, expanding curbside, expanding baggage claim, and redoing the whole south concourse. Just move HA and realign parking gate spots and jetways the south end will have enough gate space for UA's operation along with B6 while DL, SY, HA, F9, and AS are on the north side, there are three open gates and lots of office space.
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 5

Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:36 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 36):
So anyone grab a photo of the G4 at AZA going to HNL?

Here's a few.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8387/8466781980_715980474f_c.jpg
Allegiant B757-200 N906NV by KoryC757, on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8102/8465685427_2364f39ab9_c.jpg
Allegiant B757-200 N906NV by KoryC757, on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8095/8466781912_93fe5a4dcf_c.jpg
Allegiant B757-200 N906NV by KoryC757, on Flickr
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 5

Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:08 am

Holy crap guys....there's a QR A342 sitting at south cargo now....   


Anyone with info on departure date, PLEASE post here! I want to film it!

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 41):
Allegiant B757-200 N906NV by KoryC757, on Flickr

That last one was impressive. Work on that one a bit and submit it here! 
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 5

Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:38 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 42):
Holy crap guys....there's a QR A342 sitting at south cargo now....


Anyone with info on departure date, PLEASE post here! I want to film it!

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 41):
Allegiant B757-200 N906NV by KoryC757, on Flickr

That last one was impressive. Work on that one a bit and submit it here!

Thanks....The A342 will likely be here for at least a week, its here for the Scottsdale Arabian Horse show.
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 5

Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:33 am

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 40):
But alot of those projects need to be done because of current capacity in the terminal. Security is a nightmare when it gets backed up. There is a serious lack of concessions post security. Some things on the project can be held off like moving the ticket counters, expanding curbside, expanding baggage claim, and redoing the whole south concourse. Just move HA and realign parking gate spots and jetways the south end will have enough gate space for UA's operation along with B6 while DL, SY, HA, F9, and AS are on the north side, there are three open gates and lots of office space.

I'm not debating the current states of T2 or T3 -- I fly out of T2 on UA several times per month and while it is convenient, getting through security at 5am is a nightmare and everything closes post-security by 8pm (except the bar near the UA Club). T3 is a security nightmare several times per day. Both were built for an aviation industry that no longer exists.

My point was that if the AA-US merger goes through (which I still have my doubts), it's fairly clear that PHX will face some pretty substantial cuts making an expansion of T3 unnecessary. If that's the case, UA and ZK could move to T4N, which has been discussed for several years now. There's room for AS in T3 particularly if the AA flights begin operating from T4N. While T3 needs some remodeling -- particularly on security checkpoints and post-security amenities -- I think there's a more immediate need to vacate T2.

Expanding T3 would be incredibly expensive and be nothing more than a band-aid. If they're going to spend upwards of $500M, it should be spent on a more permanent solution that would ideally be completed by the early-2020s.
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 5

Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:03 pm

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 44):
My point was that if the AA-US merger goes through (which I still have my doubts), it's fairly clear that PHX will face some pretty substantial cuts making an expansion of T3 unnecessary. If that's the case, UA and ZK could move to T4N, which has been discussed for several years now. There's room for AS in T3 particularly if the AA flights begin operating from T4N. While T3 needs some remodeling -- particularly on security checkpoints and post-security amenities -- I think there's a more immediate need to vacate T2.

While I agree with some points, I think here are some differentiating opinions. If AA/US becomes one then they will eliminate some flights from PHX. This will then cause a lessening of seats to those destinations that some other airlines may pick up. If this is the case this would cause the frequency of T-3 usage to go up if they shut T2 down and move UA and AS to T-3.

As you stated T-2 and T-3 were built before the 9/11 structure of aviation and are inherently inefficient in some aspects. I could see an expansion of T-3, but I cannot see this with the shut-down of T-2 at the same time as it would eliminate too many gates. The major problem I see with T-2 is that it cannot be expanded and with the date of construction would probably be cost prohibitive due to the remediation that would need to take place due to asbestosis in the building itself. Of then these cost will outweigh the added cost of a new terminal.

The sad fact is that this is all conjecture until we know the effect of a combined US/AA. Will PHX see a downturn, yes. How long will that be is the unknown factor. Also with AZA increasing in popularity, will it have an effect on PHX growth and redevelopment?
 
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 5

Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:01 pm

Heads up- QR Amiri flight taking off today at 1:30. Aircraft is Airbus A-340-200. Most likely runway are the 25s and 7s depending on wind. This was confirmed by multiple people in PHX Spotters.

:D Look for a video from me as well later today  
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 5

Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:31 pm

http://youtu.be/iAUhqn46xfE

Excuse the self-plug but this takeoff was beautiful! (And my camera sucks)
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 5

Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:27 pm

Ghosts appear and fade away.....................
 
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 5

Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:53 am

Quoting 4holer (Reply 48):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tripod

I use one! I just have a very very bad video setting on my camera. When I go to Japan in March I'm getting a Nikon D3100 and a better tripod.
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