JohnJ
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FL Announces New MEM Service

Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:58 pm

About the only glimmer of good news to come out of Memphis recently, Southwest under their AirTran banner will add service from Memphis to Chicago, Orlando and Baltimore this summer - from the Memphis Commercial Appeal:

Southwest said in a release that it would operate twice a day service between Memphis and Chicago Midway and once a day to Orlando and Baltimore/Washington.

The flights are in addition to AirTran's five daily roundtrips between Memphis and Atlanta.


Full article:

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news...n-subsidiary-announces-new-servic/
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: FL Announces New MEM Service

Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:04 pm

Uh oh, cue the "Is FL/WN gonna make a hub out of MEM" threads...  

I don't see a full blown hub, but I think there is room for some more service other than DL
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
QANTAS747-438
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RE: FL Announces New MEM Service

Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:14 pm

Great news. I wonder why MEM is one of the last FL stations to be converted over to WN? I can see WN having a 30-35 flt operation out of MEM.
My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
 
alggag
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RE: FL Announces New MEM Service

Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:17 pm

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 2):
Great news. I wonder why MEM is one of the last FL stations to be converted over to WN? I can see WN having a 30-35 flt operation out of MEM.

Don't they only have two gates to work with? That would only allow them to run about 20 flights.
 
Bobloblaw
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RE: FL Announces New MEM Service

Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:18 pm

Will MDW-MEM be a code share? The others can stand alone as FL.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: FL Announces New MEM Service

Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:21 pm

Quoting alggag (Reply 3):
Don't they only have two gates to work with? That would only allow them to run about 20 flights.

Been to MEM lately? WN can have as many gates as they like.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
sdoyon
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RE: FL Announces New MEM Service

Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:22 pm

Quoting alggag (Reply 3):
Don't they only have two gates to work with? That would only allow them to run about 20 flights.

With DL reducing MEM as they've done (and probably will continue to do), I could see WN/FL taking over another gate or two in Terminal A.
 
Tdan
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RE: FL Announces New MEM Service

Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:24 pm

Quoting alggag (Reply 3):

Don't they only have two gates to work with? That would only allow them to run about 20 flights

...and the airport has about 50 empty other gates! In all seriousness, it's just a matter of time before DL doesn't renew many of the A gates, particularly when the B construction is done. WN will be in there with its own metal before too long.
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PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: FL Announces New MEM Service

Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:31 pm

Everyone keeps talking about WN growing MEM to a 30-40 flight/day operation, but was is the justification?

MEM doesn't appear to be anymore special than dozens of WN mid-sized markets that have less than 20 flights/day.
 
Type-Rated
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RE: FL Announces New MEM Service

Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:33 pm

Back around the time SO & NC merged to make RC, the city greatly expanded MEM. Even with DL & RC in full swing there were tons of open gates. This must have been around 1977-78 or so. Everytime I have been through there since there have always been tons of gates open.
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Cubsrule
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RE: FL Announces New MEM Service

Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:36 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 8):
MEM doesn't appear to be anymore special than dozens of WN mid-sized markets that have less than 20 flights/day.

Please list the dozens of markets. You are far overestimating the number of WN stations in cities with comparable size and location to MEM that are that small. LBB, CRB and ALB aren't really peers.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
diverdave
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RE: FL Announces New MEM Service

Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:38 pm

Quoting Tdan (Reply 7):
...and the airport has about 50 empty other gates! In all seriousness, it's just a matter of time before DL doesn't renew many of the A gates, particularly when the B construction is done. WN will be in there with its own metal before too long.

Heck, WN can have a whole terminal!

David
 
ScottB
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RE: FL Announces New MEM Service

Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:41 pm

Quoting type-rated (Reply 9):
Back around the time SO & NC merged to make RC, the city greatly expanded MEM. Even with DL & RC in full swing there were tons of open gates. This must have been around 1977-78 or so.

And the airport looks like it's still stuck in the 1970's. Gray brick, low ceilings, and narrow hallways. It wouldn't work as a hub with many aircraft larger than a DC-9 or A319.
 
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enilria
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RE: FL Announces New MEM Service

Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:52 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 1):
I don't see a full blown hub

Since WN has no hubs? If 15 flights is a hub and that's the most they will have, I guess you can choose to call that a hub.

Quoting JohnJ (Thread starter):
Southwest under their AirTran banner will add service from Memphis to Chicago, Orlando and Baltimore this summer

So whose metal is it? I hope it is WN metal unless the code share is truly fixed.
 
sdoyon
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RE: FL Announces New MEM Service

Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:55 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 13):
So whose metal is it? I hope it is WN metal unless the code share is truly fixed.

It's operated by FL.
 
SELMER40
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RE: FL Announces New MEM Service

Mon Feb 04, 2013 7:31 pm

Quote:
It wouldn't work as a hub with many aircraft larger than a DC-9 or A319.

In the late 80s, before the improvements we have now, The Memphis NW/KL hub operated with large airplanes-at various times a 747, DC-10s, a 763, a MD-11, a A330, 753s, 752s, 722s, A320s as well as the mentioned DC9s and A319s. With five banks of flights and about 225 departures a day most of the airport's gates were well used.

[Edited 2013-02-04 11:54:44]
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ouboy79
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RE: FL Announces New MEM Service

Mon Feb 04, 2013 7:48 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 13):
So whose metal is it? I hope it is WN metal unless the code share is truly fixed.

It's broke? News to me. Of course we've only seen the soft/limited launch of it right now so its hard to really judge it until full roll out takes place.
 
Flaps
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RE: FL Announces New MEM Service

Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:35 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 12):
And the airport looks like it's still stuck in the 1970's. Gray brick, low ceilings, and narrow hallways. It wouldn't work as a hub with many aircraft larger than a DC-9 or A319.

MEM is no worse than CLT in that regard. CLT does fine with what it has and so does MEM.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: FL Announces New MEM Service

Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:29 am

Quoting enilria (Reply 13):
Since WN has no hubs? If 15 flights is a hub and that's the most they will have, I guess you can choose to call that a hub.

I don't want to be caught up in semantics... a "large operation" or a MDW or BWI or something is what I meant
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
B757capt
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RE: FL Announces New MEM Service

Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:31 am

Quoting Flaps (Reply 17):

Have you been to CLT lately?
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JBAirwaysFan
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RE: FL Announces New MEM Service

Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:31 pm

Good for MEM, but I would never expect a huge build up there. BNA is too close to build up MEM to a "hub".
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MSYtristar
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RE: FL Announces New MEM Service

Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:40 pm

The only other cities that could realistically be added from MEM are HOU, DEN, and maybe LAS.

ATL, BWI, MDW, MCO, HOU, DEN, LAS would allow for easy connectivity from the majority of the WN network.

I can see MEM being a 15-20 flight per day station, but nothing more.
 
Bobloblaw
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RE: FL Announces New MEM Service

Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:16 pm

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 21):
The only other cities that could realistically be added from MEM are HOU, DEN, and maybe LAS.

ATL, BWI, MDW, MCO, HOU, DEN, LAS would allow for easy connectivity from the majority of the WN network.

I can see MEM being a 15-20 flight per day station, but nothing more.

I mostly agree, but when DL finally pulls the plug on MEM, there will be someone who flies LAX. It might still be DL to enhance LAX hub or it might be WN.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: FL Announces New MEM Service

Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:21 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 10):
Please list the dozens of markets. You are far overestimating the number of WN stations in cities with comparable size and location to MEM that are that small. LBB, CRB and ALB aren't really peers.

What would drive MEM to be any different than cities like:
BHM, LIT, SDF, or OKC.

Those markets are within about 15-20 flights per day on average (maybe up to 25 during peak days). They all are connected to the major WN connecting cities/focus cities/hubs-but-we-don't officially call them hubs markets

Anything beyond 15-20 flights requires going into more O&D focused routes when either a) WN is not a significant player or has limited resourced in some of the larger O&D markets (NYC, BOS, DCA) or b) routes are long-and-thin (LAX, SFO)

WN is not going to be flying routes like from MEM to places like SAT, MSP, PIT, ALB

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 21):
The only other cities that could realistically be added from MEM are HOU, DEN, and maybe LAS.

ATL, BWI, MDW, MCO, HOU, DEN, LAS would allow for easy connectivity from the majority of the WN network.

I can see MEM being a 15-20 flight per day station, but nothing more.

Exactly what I'm thinking. WN is going to focus on their focus cities from MEM. DL relies on RJs as it is even with the power of a connecting hub to make some of these routes and offers even less capacity per day than WN could if they operated just 1 737 on the route.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: FL Announces New MEM Service

Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:23 pm

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 22):
I mostly agree, but when DL finally pulls the plug on MEM, there will be someone who flies LAX. It might still be DL to enhance LAX hub or it might be WN.

I also think MEM will get a DAL flight or two once 2014 rolls around. There's a possibility, though I don't know how strong, that MEM will get connected to one or more of what I'll call "medium-sized medium-haul" stations. I'd put MSY, MCI, SAT, AUS and perhaps TPA in that category.

If we are talking about 8 to 12 destinations, that's probably closer to 30 flights than 15 to 20.
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steeler83
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RE: FL Announces New MEM Service

Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:50 pm

Quoting b757capt (Reply 19):

Have you been to CLT lately?

CLT in a state of disaray? Poor, poor CLT and their complete lack of airline service, which has only about 600 daily US flights a day...

Altho, I do wonder if he's talking about the terminals versus the amount and quality of service...

You know what, he is:

Quoting Flaps (Reply 17):
Quoting ScottB (Reply 12):And the airport looks like it's still stuck in the 1970's. Gray brick, low ceilings, and narrow hallways. It wouldn't work as a hub with many aircraft larger than a DC-9 or A319.

MEM is no worse than CLT in that regard. CLT does fine with what it has and so does MEM.

I know they added a new runway, or they're about to at least, but have they done any updates to their terminal space at CLT? If that's the case, then my sarcasm is out of line. My bad...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: FL Announces New MEM Service

Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:58 pm

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 25):
I know they added a new runway, or they're about to at least, but have they done any updates to their terminal space at CLT?

Well, D and the original part of E are only about 10 years old and IIRC B and C got facelifts around that time. Not brand new, to be sure, but certainly not 70s like MEM.

CLT and MEM are apples and oranges.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
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enilria
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RE: FL Announces New MEM Service

Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:30 pm

Quoting sdoyon (Reply 14):
Quoting enilria (Reply 13):
So whose metal is it? I hope it is WN metal unless the code share is truly fixed.

It's operated by FL.
Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 16):
Quoting enilria (Reply 13):
So whose metal is it? I hope it is WN metal unless the code share is truly fixed.

It's broke? News to me. Of course we've only seen the soft/limited launch of it right now so its hard to really judge it until full roll out takes place.

Well, this is a big deal then. MEM-MDW depends upon the code share. This is the first route they have announced in 18 months or so that expected code share to be functional. If they are now returning to scheduling as if there will be a code share (ATL-SDF expected a code share) then they must be very confident this time...or they are going to have more egg on their face...

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 18):
Quoting enilria (Reply 13):
Since WN has no hubs? If 15 flights is a hub and that's the most they will have, I guess you can choose to call that a hub.

I don't want to be caught up in semantics... a "large operation" or a MDW or BWI or something is what I meant

IMHO, if Delta closed the "hub" completely and had 20-23 flights per day, this is best case for MEM on WN and DL:

DL
8 ATL
4 DTW
4 MSP
2 LGA
2 DCA (maybe)
1 LAX (maybe)
1 SLC (probably not)
1 MCO

WN
4 ATL
2 MDW
2 HOU
2 DAL
1 PHX
1 LAS
1 MCO
1 FLL
2 BWI

I think B6 is very unlikely. F9 is a possibility as they have been there before and are now in CVG.
 
MSYtristar
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RE: FL Announces New MEM Service

Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:30 pm

This is far from scientific, but just as example of why MEM won't see anywhere close to the service it has now when DL closes up shop....

According to the latest numbers posted on faremeasure, MEM only has more than 100 PDEW to 22 cities. If/when the DL hub goes, MEM will realistically only be served from the major hub markets. MEM-LAX showed 234 daily passengers, which is probably enough for one nonstop on a 737 or A320 sized aircraft. That might be a market that DL would keep post hub closure, but who knows? I still don't see WN flying it. WN only serves cities nonstop from LAX east of (or on) the Mississippi River which have very strong O&D. 243 is a fair number, but it's nothing like what BNA, MDW, STL, ATL, BWI, MSY have...all cities flown by WN nonstop.

For comparison, I've posted the number of cities that see more than 100 PDEW from additional mid-sized metros.


CVG: 27
IND: 40
PIT: 41
MSY: 42
RDU: 45
SAT: 52
 
ScottB
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RE: FL Announces New MEM Service

Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:06 pm

Quoting selmer40 (Reply 15):
In the late 80s, before the improvements we have now, The Memphis NW/KL hub operated with large airplanes-at various times a 747, DC-10s, a 763, a MD-11, a A330, 753s, 752s, 722s, A320s as well as the mentioned DC9s and A319s. With five banks of flights and about 225 departures a day most of the airport's gates were well used.

I doubt the MEM hub was using an A330, an MD-11, or a 753 in the late 1980s. The MEM hub was always heavily reliant on smaller regional aircraft.

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 21):
The only other cities that could realistically be added from MEM are HOU, DEN, and maybe LAS.

I think DAL-MEM is a lock post-2014. I don't think MEM-PHX is beyond the realm of possibility, either.
 
flyguy89
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RE: FL Announces New MEM Service

Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:08 pm

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 28):
This is far from scientific, but just as example of why MEM won't see anywhere close to the service it has now when DL closes up shop....

While indicative, there's definitely a level of stimulation in various markets which would occur with the introduction of lower fares. There's a good reason that MEM and CVG are only showing about half the number of markets with 100+ PDEW than even some smaller cities: Having among the highest if not THE highest airfares in the country.
 
FlyPeoria
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RE: FL Announces New MEM Service

Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:30 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 29):
Quoting selmer40 (Reply 15):
In the late 80s, before the improvements we have now, The Memphis NW/KL hub operated with large airplanes-at various times a 747, DC-10s, a 763, a MD-11, a A330, 753s, 752s, 722s, A320s as well as the mentioned DC9s and A319s. With five banks of flights and about 225 departures a day most of the airport's gates were well used.

I doubt the MEM hub was using an A330, an MD-11, or a 753 in the late 1980s. The MEM hub was always heavily reliant on smaller regional aircraft.

Well..."in the late 1980s," the A330 had yet to make its first flight. Same with the MD-11 and 757-300 but NW did use a 747-200 on a MEM-MSP roundtrip in 1987. I think they used DC-10s there as well.
 
JohnJ
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RE: FL Announces New MEM Service

Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:48 pm

Quoting FlyPeoria (Reply 31):
I think they used DC-10s there as well.

They did. Almost immediately after the RC/NW merger NW started bringing in DC-10s on the DTW route. I believe there are photos in the database of Northwest Orient-schemed DC-10s at MEM during that time period.
 
skycub
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RE: FL Announces New MEM Service

Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:58 pm

Quoting selmer40 (Reply 15):
With five banks of flights and about 225 departures a day most of the airport's gates were well used.

When were there ever FIVE banks of flights a day in MEM? I am asking that honestly.....I always thought the NW MEM hub existed, mostly, of a three bank operation.

And looking at THIS:

http://www.departedflights.com/NWMEMhub.html

I see a lot of times where there were three, MAYBE four, flights a day to each destination.... but other than flights to some Airlink cities and other hub cities... I don't see where any destinations ever really had more than (usually) three or (occasionally) four flights a day....

While I agree with the number of flights... I am not sure about the number of banks.
My opinions are my own. They are not representative of my employer, my union or my co-workers. They are all mine.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: FL Announces New MEM Service

Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:54 pm

MEM was historically a 3 bank hub that relied heavily on DC-9, 727, and turborprop aircraft. As 727s were phased out the A320 took its place. MEM got ARJs then got a heavy influx of CRJ aircraft to replace DC-9s & turboprops and/or add additional frequency.

MEM got a 4th bank that added an additional round of evening departures in about 2000, but it was then cut post-9/11. The 4th bank returned again for another brief period in about 2003-2004.

MEM never saw a significant amount of widebody (or even 757s) for that matter. MEM never saw more than 2-3 widebodies per day, and maybe about 5-10 757s at is peak. Yes AMS was operated by KLM MD-11, NW DC-10, NW/DL A330, and NW/DL 767. DTW & MSP saw DC-10 and 757 equipment on some flights throughout the day. Outside of those SEA & MCO saw 757 service:

Here is a breakdown of daily mainline operations:

June 1995: 111
DC9 77
320 20
727 7
757 6
MD11 1 (KLM- AMS)

June 2000: 132
DC9 87
319 4
320 25
727 5
757 9
DC10 2 (MSP & AMS)

June 2005: 92
DC9 54
319 18
320 17
757 3
DC10 1 (AMS)

June 2012: 35
DC9 5
319 5
320 13
M88 8
M90 2
738 1
767 1 (AMS)
 
SELMER40
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RE: FL Announces New MEM Service

Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:00 pm

Quote:
Quoting skycub (reply 33)
When were there ever FIVE banks of flights a day in MEM?

My timetables for July 1986 and July 1987 show a fifth bank at 10 PM. A few exanples of departure times in the July 1987
timetable are-- to BHM 9.10a 12.45p 4.20p 8.00p 10.45p -- to DTW 8.55a 12.40p 4.15p 8.20p 10.40p --FSM 9.00a 12.35p 3.50p 8.15p 10.50p --to GLH 9.20a 12.50a 4.20p 8.20p 10.55p -- to HSV 9.10a 12.45p 4.20p 8.00p 10.45p --MSP 9.15a two flights 12.40p two flights 3.55p two flights 8.10p 10.45p --to MCO 8.55a 12.30p 4.15p 8.15p 10.40p --to TUP 6.20a 9.10a12.30p 3.55p 8.15p 1045p.........All of this is history. Returning to the now, the morning paper today says Southwest, with the new flights, may qualify for $375K from the airport competing service fund. Considering how Delta reacted in the ATL-COU market (pulling out) when American got funds, how will Delta react in MEM if Southwest gets funds?

[Edited 2013-02-05 13:21:47]

[Edited 2013-02-05 13:23:56]
Teaching this old dog a new trick
 
Cubsrule
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RE: FL Announces New MEM Service

Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:35 pm

Quoting selmer40 (Reply 35):
Considering how Delta reacted in the ATL-COU market (pulling out) when American got funds, how will Delta react in MEM if Southwest gets funds?

Apples and oranges (I feel like I've said that a lot in this thread). DL doesn't give a rip about COU. At least for now, DL is the carrier of choice for MEM locals.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
pwm2txlhopper
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RE: FL Announces New MEM Service

Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:08 am

I use to fly BOS to MEM on NW 757's -more than a few times- during the mid 1990s.

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