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1337Delta764
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First DL A330 In For Interior Mods

Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:20 am

According to a post at FT, DL has sent in its first A330 for interior mods. The aircraft is ship 3301, an A333.

For those who haven't been following DL's product updates, the A330s will be getting Zodiac/Weber Cirrus full-flat seats in BusinessElite and B/E Aerospace Pinnacle slimline seats with winged headrests in Y. The existing Panasonic 3000i IFE system will be replaced by the more advanced and lighter weight Panasonic eX2 system, with the Eco 9i Integrated Smart Monitors in Y. All A330s should be done in 2014.

[Edited 2013-02-04 20:22:28]
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MesaFlyGuy
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RE: First DL A330 In For Interior Mods

Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:23 am

As per the IFE, I cannot understand a word you just said.   That's my idiocracy at work again.

Can you answer me this:

1. Are there currently screens in the headrests?
2. WILL there be screens in the headrests?

Thanks and once again I apologize for my stupidity.                
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PHX787
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RE: First DL A330 In For Interior Mods

Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:27 am

The IFE, IIRC, is what they're offering in the 77L and 74S cabins.

It's about time. I love the 330 but DL until now really didn't do any justice with it.
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deltairlines
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RE: First DL A330 In For Interior Mods

Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:37 am

Good news to hear - I flew on the 747 a couple of weeks ago and that was the best business class seat I've flown on - went to bed right after dinner right off the coast of Russia and then woke up 9 hours later over Minnesota en route to Kennedy. Slept a lot better than on the A330 I took going over to Japan with the angled-lie flat seats.

Also a much more comfortable seat than the 777 (I also took that on this trip) - a lot more space for everything on the 747.
 
United1
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RE: First DL A330 In For Interior Mods

Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:50 am

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 1):
1. Are there currently screens in the headrests?
2. WILL there be screens in the headrests?

Yes...and Yes
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michman
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RE: First DL A330 In For Interior Mods

Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:52 am

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 1):

As per the IFE, I cannot understand a word you just said.   That's my idiocracy at work again.

Can you answer me this:

1. Are there currently screens in the headrests?
2. WILL there be screens in the headrests?

They are both personal AVOD systems (yes, there are monitors in the headrest currently). The 3000i is an early generation AVOD system with a hand-based controller (no touch-screen). The eX2 system with Eco9i monitor is the lastest generation and uses a touch-screen. It also has a USB charging port.

[Edited 2013-02-04 20:54:43]
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: First DL A330 In For Interior Mods

Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:56 am

Quoting michman (Reply 5):
However, I thought the A330's were supposed the lastest generation Panasonic Eco 9i's.

The Eco 9i is not a specific type of IFE system, it is an advanced lightweight monitor integrated into either a Weber 5751 or B/E Aerospace Pinnacle seat, which is compatible with the eFX and eX2 systems. In Y, the A330s will be getting B/E Aerospace Pinnacle seats with the Eco 9i monitors.

[Edited 2013-02-04 20:57:47]
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PHX787
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RE: First DL A330 In For Interior Mods

Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:59 am

The current IFE offering on the 330s are the ex-NW offerings, which were some early 2000s model and were quite outdated. The new offerings are going to be highly customizable by the airline and it should be a better and more enjoyable product by the customer  
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klkla
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RE: First DL A330 In For Interior Mods

Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:08 am

This is good to hear.

They're converting 767's 6 at a time to the new product and now starting on A330's  

Delta will be the only US airline with lie-flats that have direct aisle access on all international planes as well as coach seats with IFE across the board in the very near future.
 
CanadianDC10
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RE: First DL A330 In For Interior Mods

Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:25 am

Why would DL replace the economy seats in the ex-NW A330's? The earliest A330 they have is from 2003, so it is really not THAT outdated. There are already screens in the seat backs and in economy there are already winged headrests. Isn't this just a huge waste of money? There's absolutely nothing wrong with the IFE and seats the 330's have now.

[Edited 2013-02-04 22:29:55]
 
MSPNWA
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RE: First DL A330 In For Interior Mods

Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:58 am

Nice to see them finally hit mods, but in coach it will be tough to beat the product back in the NW days. That included the comfy cloth covers and great IFE selection (and I like handsets much better than touchscreens). Since DL took over the, leather covers (which didn't match the seat well) and DL programming was a downgrade. It's too bad that something nearly 10 years old will still be as good or better depending on your preference. If I get a chance to ride on a refurbished A330, it will be interesting to see how it compares to UA's 764s in coach. Now that is one nice ride.
 
panamair
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RE: First DL A330 In For Interior Mods

Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:17 am

Quoting klkla (Reply 8):
They're converting 767's 6 at a time to the new product and now starting on A330's

There will only be one A333 and one A332 undergoing mods this spring, at least that's the last I heard. The rest of the fleet will only start in the fall though. The 767s will continue at the current pace until June. None will be done this summer, and then will restart in September.

Quoting klkla (Reply 8):
Delta will be the only US airline with lie-flats that have direct aisle access on all international planes

Unfortunately, the 75Es (which they do use on some internationals like ATL-BSB, JFK-SNN/KEF/DKR, CDG-PHL/PIT) will not have direct aisle access when the flat beds are installed - they will still be in the 2-2 config. This is because there is no economic way to have 1-1 on the 757 in the forward cabin...

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 10):
great IFE selection

The new IFE selection (300+ movies, for example) will be better than whatever NWA used to have. But then again, you would probably complain that you have too many choices...

[Edited 2013-02-05 03:19:53]
 
rwsea
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RE: First DL A330 In For Interior Mods

Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:16 pm

The A330s have generally been nicer than the rest of the DL international fleet, but this is changing fast. The new business class seats and expanded IFE offerings should make things even better.
 
floridaflyboy
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RE: First DL A330 In For Interior Mods

Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:14 pm

What will be the breakdown in seat count between Biz Elite, Economy Comfort, and Economy?
Good goes around!
 
CanadianDC10
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RE: First DL A330 In For Interior Mods

Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:34 pm

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 10):
but in coach it will be tough to beat the product back in the NW days. That included the comfy cloth covers and great IFE selection (and I like handsets much better than touchscreens). Since DL took over the, leather covers (which didn't match the seat well) and DL programming was a downgrade. It's too bad that something nearly 10 years old will still be as good or better depending on your preference.

Exactly!!! Total downgrade on DL's part.
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: First DL A330 In For Interior Mods

Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:28 pm

Quoting CanadianDC10 (Reply 9):
Why would DL replace the economy seats in the ex-NW A330's? The earliest A330 they have is from 2003, so it is really not THAT outdated. There are already screens in the seat backs and in economy there are already winged headrests. Isn't this just a huge waste of money? There's absolutely nothing wrong with the IFE and seats the 330's have now.

The new IFE system has far more storage capacity and weighs much less. The Eco 9i Integrated Smart Monitors cannot simply be retrofitted onto any seat that can fit a monitor; the seats (B/E Aerospace Pinnacle in this case) are customized specifically for them.
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FoxBravo
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RE: First DL A330 In For Interior Mods

Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:32 pm

Quoting panamair (Reply 11):
Unfortunately, the 75Es (which they do use on some internationals like ATL-BSB, JFK-SNN/KEF/DKR, CDG-PHL/PIT) will not have direct aisle access when the flat beds are installed - they will still be in the 2-2 config.

Are they using the same type of seats that UA uses on its 757s, or something else?
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1337Delta764
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RE: First DL A330 In For Interior Mods

Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:34 pm

Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 16):
Are they using the same type of seats that UA uses on its 757s, or something else?

They will be a modified version of the B/E Aerospace Diamond designed specifically for DL.
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dlflynhayn
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RE: First DL A330 In For Interior Mods

Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:38 pm

Quoting panamair (Reply 11):
The new IFE selection (300+ movies, for example) will be better than whatever NWA used to have. But then again, you would probably complain that you have too many choices...

  

Quoting rwsea (Reply 12):
The A330s have generally been nicer than the rest of the DL international fleet, but this is changing fast. The new business class seats and expanded IFE offerings should make things even better.

Huh?? I go to AMS often and lately i will wait to get on that last flight on the 777 out of DTW,and even sometimes i'll chose the new refurbished 767er's which is again better IMO...
 
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fanoftristars
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RE: First DL A330 In For Interior Mods

Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:43 pm

Aren't the newer seats much lighter and therefore pay for themselves in fuel savings?

Could they take the old panasonic systems out of the A330 and put them in the A320s? LOL.
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1337Delta764
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RE: First DL A330 In For Interior Mods

Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:48 pm

Quoting fanoftristars (Reply 19):
Aren't the newer seats much lighter and therefore pay for themselves in fuel savings?

Not just the seats, but the IFE system as well.

Quoting fanoftristars (Reply 19):
Could they take the old panasonic systems out of the A330 and put them in the A320s? LOL.

No. The Panasonic 3000i is a widebody-only system.
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maddogjt8d
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RE: First DL A330 In For Interior Mods

Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:48 pm

Quoting fanoftristars (Reply 19):
Could they take the old panasonic systems out of the A330 and put them in the A320s? LOL.

Oh if wishing made it so, LOL! I think the A319/320 & MD-90 are on missions that are too long not to have some form of IFE.
 
airtechy
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RE: First DL A330 In For Interior Mods

Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:00 pm

I am extremely glad to see the A330 business class seats go. Being trapped by those seats once they were reclined was the pits. I could usually avoid the seats except on NRT to BKK.

The new lie flats are fantastic ... especially on the 747.  

Jim
 
bcbhokie
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RE: First DL A330 In For Interior Mods

Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:44 pm

Delta's been sending the 330s to AMS while mostly serving CDG with the newly refubished 767 fleet... creating a lower-yield and higher-yield differentiation between the two european hubs.

Now that DL will have a top quality business class product to AMS, they'll make KLM's disaster of a hard product look even worse in comparison. I wonder if KLM will begin any refurbishment to match? Their seats are really outdated - what they call an "angled lie flat" is barely better than DL's old 767-300 recliners.
 
United1
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RE: First DL A330 In For Interior Mods

Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:46 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 17):
Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 16):
Are they using the same type of seats that UA uses on its 757s, or something else?

They will be a modified version of the B/E Aerospace Diamond designed specifically for DL.

...which is the same seat that UA uses on the 752 fleet. AA is also using the Diamond seat as their J class on the 321 transcon fleet.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 10):
If I get a chance to ride on a refurbished A330, it will be interesting to see how it compares to UA's 764s in coach. Now that is one nice ride.

Should be the same seat and IFE monitor as on UAs 764/763 2-class...the differences would be the amount of movies onboard (depends on the amount of storage that DL purchases) and of course cloth vs leather.
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DTWPurserBoy
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RE: First DL A330 In For Interior Mods

Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:47 pm

The A330 is a great airplane in its present state. These improvements will make it state of the art. Most complaints I ever had was about the WBC seats--short women tended to slide off the seat onto the floor because of the reclining seat angle. We used to refer to them as "the pod people" because the seats resembled a plastic pod. Now if they would only move that lav from directly behind the cockpit further aft. It always maade me nervous to have passengers hanging around there.

BTW--my personal preference is for the -200 version.
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michman
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RE: First DL A330 In For Interior Mods

Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:58 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 7):

The current IFE offering on the 330s are the ex-NW offerings, which were some early 2000s model and were quite outdated.

The 330's recently had an upgrade on their IFE systems. Not sure if the 3000i hardware was upgraded, or if it was just a firmware upgrade. At any rate, the systems are now much more responsive than they were previously. The content selection seemed similar to what I've experienced on recent 777 flights.
 
FoxBravo
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RE: First DL A330 In For Interior Mods

Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:05 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 17):
They will be a modified version of the B/E Aerospace Diamond designed specifically for DL.
Quoting United1 (Reply 24):
...which is the same seat that UA uses on the 752 fleet. AA is also using the Diamond seat as their J class on the 321 transcon fleet.

Thanks, both. I've taken the UA version on 757s and 777s and find it very comfortable for sitting and sleeping. My only complaint is that it can be quite difficult to step out from a window seat, but that's not a big problem on 4-5 hour transcons, and in any event it's still a huge improvement over the current 757 seats.

Back to the main topic, can't wait to try the reconfigured A330s. Those Cirrus seats are great.
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sq452
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RE: First DL A330 In For Interior Mods

Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:07 pm

Have interior mods been completed for all the 747's for DL?
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modesto2
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RE: First DL A330 In For Interior Mods

Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:16 pm

Quoting SQ452 (Reply 28):
Have interior mods been completed for all the 747's for DL?

Yes, all DL 747s have the cabin mods.
 
MSPNWA
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RE: First DL A330 In For Interior Mods

Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:27 pm

Quoting United1 (Reply 24):
Should be the same seat and IFE monitor as on UAs 764/763 2-class...the differences would be the amount of movies onboard (depends on the amount of storage that DL purchases) and of course cloth vs leather.

That's a good sign then. I was quite impressed with the new seats and IFE system on the UA 764. I'm not a big fan of touchscreens since I like to play games and fiddle around, but it has a big, clear screen and a responsive touch system. It was right up there with how much I liked the NW A330 product.
 
nwa757300
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RE: First DL A330 In For Interior Mods

Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:48 pm

Quoting floridaflyboy (Reply 13):

What will be the breakdown in seat count between Biz Elite, Economy Comfort, and Economy?

A330-200: 34 BE, 32 EC, 168 YC = 234 (loss of 11 seats)

A330-300: 34 BE, 32 EC, 227 YC = 293 (loss of 5 seats)

[Edited 2013-02-05 10:48:57]
 
SXDFC
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RE: First DL A330 In For Interior Mods

Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:59 pm

I am a bit confused with regards to the DL mods.. Will the A330s feature the same product that is on the 767, or the 747? From the looks of it, the product on the 747 looks better than whats on the 777-200LRs..
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1337Delta764
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RE: First DL A330 In For Interior Mods

Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:03 pm

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 32):
I am a bit confused with regards to the DL mods.. Will the A330s feature the same product that is on the 767, or the 747? From the looks of it, the product on the 747 looks better than whats on the 777-200LRs..

The flat beds in BusinessElite will be the same product as on the 744s, the Zodiac/Weber Cirrus. However, in Y, the A330s will be the first to use the B/E Aerospace Pinnacle seats instead of the Weber 5751 like on the 744/763.
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toobz
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RE: First DL A330 In For Interior Mods

Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:03 pm

MSPNWA... This mod is light years ahead of what NWA ever had. Cloth or no cloth.
 
YULWinterSkies
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RE: First DL A330 In For Interior Mods

Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:36 pm

Quoting CanadianDC10 (Reply 9):
Why would DL replace the economy seats in the ex-NW A330's? The earliest A330 they have is from 2003, so it is really not THAT outdated. There are already screens in the seat backs and in economy there are already winged headrests. Isn't this just a huge waste of money? There's absolutely nothing wrong with the IFE and seats the 330's have now.

747s are done, 764 and 777s have the new system also, 767-300 being worked on... I let you guess that next on the list are the A330s.
There is indeed nothing wrong with the A330 as they are now in Y, but they can also get better. They are not getting any younger, and each seat and IFE handset will be tortured by yet another few hundreds of people before they are out of service for refurbishment...
When I doubt... go running!
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: First DL A330 In For Interior Mods

Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:41 pm

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 35):
There is indeed nothing wrong with the A330 as they are now in Y, but they can also get better. They are not getting any younger, and each seat and IFE handset will be tortured by yet another few hundreds of people before they are out of service for refurbishment...

In addition, the new seats and IFE system weigh much less than the existing ones, thus saving DL some fuel.
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rwsea
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RE: First DL A330 In For Interior Mods

Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:52 pm

Quoting BCBHokie (Reply 23):
Now that DL will have a top quality business class product to AMS, they'll make KLM's disaster of a hard product look even worse in comparison. I wonder if KLM will begin any refurbishment to match? Their seats are really outdated - what they call an "angled lie flat" is barely better than DL's old 767-300 recliners.

KL is supposedly starting the installation of lie-flat seats this summer. They haven't released the design yet but have said as much. The 747s are supposed to happen first. KL's hard product in WBC sucks, although the IFE options are decent. The soft product is often better than DL in my experience. Once the seats catch up, KL will be a standout among European carriers.
 
JAAlbert
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RE: First DL A330 In For Interior Mods

Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:35 pm

So what does an airline do with the thousands of seats its removes from an airplane? Are they recyclable or do they get tossed into the trash?
 
bizjet
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RE: First DL A330 In For Interior Mods

Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:41 pm

I'm curious to see the LOPA for the A330-300. Will BusinessElite now have a small second cabin behind 2L/2R?

If I recall correctly, US Airways only fits 28 Envoy Suites (very similar to the product DL is installing) in the forward cabin (between 1L/1R and 2L/2R) of their A333s. However, perhaps DL could squeeze in 34 BE suites with a different galley/lav configuration.
 
bizjet
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RE: First DL A330 In For Interior Mods

Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:45 pm

Actually, looking at the current DL seat map for the A333, it looks like they're holding BE and EC seat counts flat and reducing Y by 5 seats.

Based on that, I'm guessing they're keeping BE in the forward cabin but are pushing back the lavs/galleys at 2L/2R slightly. I'm still not sure how a reduction of 5 seats works, though. Would expect the Y seat reduction to be in multiples of 2.
 
MSPNWA
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RE: First DL A330 In For Interior Mods

Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:03 pm

Quoting toobz (Reply 34):
MSPNWA... This mod is light years ahead of what NWA ever had. Cloth or no cloth.

"Ahead" in this case is a matter of personal preference. The chance that I will like this product more than the original A330 product or even UA's new product is slim to none.
 
FoxBravo
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RE: First DL A330 In For Interior Mods

Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:35 pm

Quoting rwsea (Reply 37):

KL is supposedly starting the installation of lie-flat seats this summer. They haven't released the design yet but have said as much. The 747s are supposed to happen first. KL's hard product in WBC sucks, although the IFE options are decent. The soft product is often better than DL in my experience. Once the seats catch up, KL will be a standout among European carriers.

I'm very glad to hear that, and I agree with your assessment. I have generally had excellent service on KL, and I like flying through AMS--it's the hard product that has been the weakest link in recent years. KL service with true lie-flat seats would be a great combination. Supposedly AF has selected the Cirrus seats (like DL's 744s and A330s), so hopefully KL will do the same for a more uniform Skyteam experience.
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
nwa757300
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RE: First DL A330 In For Interior Mods

Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:02 pm

Quoting bizjet (Reply 39):
I'm curious to see the LOPA for the A330-300.

I have the LOPAs for the new configurations but I don't think I can post them without someone on here having a fit. The business class galley is being moved to door 2 and door 1 will only have 2 lavs, a closet, and a very small support galley, no more pilot crew rest.

Ok everyone, try to use your imagination. Here is a rough draft of the BE cabins:

A330-200

...LAV...LAV
1L ......closet......1R
closet ..X X...closet
...X....... X X ........X
...X....... X X ........X
...X....... X X ........X
...X....... X X ........X
...X....... X X ........X
2L.........GAL......2R
.GAL.....GAL...GAL
...X....... X X ........X
...X....... X X ........X
...X....... X X ........X

A330-300

...LAV...LAV
1L ......closet......1R
closet ..X X...closet
...X....... X X ........X
...X....... X X ........X
...X....... X X ........X
...X....... X X ........X
...X....... X X ........X
...X....... X X ........X
...X....... X X ........X
...X....... X X ........X
2L.........GAL......2R
.GAL.....GAL...GAL
 
cokepopper
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RE: First DL A330 In For Interior Mods

Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:45 pm

The iphone/ipad app has the A330-200 layout displayed with lie flat seats.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: First DL A330 In For Interior Mods

Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:58 pm

DL is proceeding now with the first mod of each an A330-200 & -300 as a pilot / proof of concept. As with any of the mods, the first aircraft always take significantly more time to complete than the subsequent frames.
They have a window now during the slower winter season to do this so then they can proceed full-speed starting next fall/winter.

The oldest A330s are turning 10 years old so it is time to enhance the on-board product and update with the rest of the international widebody fleet. This will standardize the product and enable greater flexibility to DL can match the proper aircraft from a capacity, route profile, and tail routing perspective but not have to make a trade-offs on product.
 
Alnicocunife
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RE: First DL A330 In For Interior Mods

Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:22 pm

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 38):

So what does an airline do with the thousands of seats its removes from an airplane? Are they recyclable or do they get tossed into the trash?

Delta takes some of the used seats and donates them to the Delta museum. The Delta museum sells them to support its operation. Most of the seats are scrapped for materials or sold locally as surplus. Very few make it back into a Delta plane and not many other operators buy old used seats. Older seats must be scrapped because the seat requirements (g loading) have increased.
 
modesto2
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RE: First DL A330 In For Interior Mods

Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:36 pm

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 41):
"Ahead" in this case is a matter of personal preference.

I beg to differ. I'm confident that a product that is 10 years newer will be viewed by most as an improvement. More selections, bigger screens, and a better user interface. I've been thoroughly impressed with DL's new flat-beds, and I assure you that the 330 mods will be absolutely no different. However, you seem convinced of the new seat's inferiority, so don't bother with trying the new product.
 
jr
Posts: 1043
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:15 am

RE: First DL A330 In For Interior Mods

Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:31 am

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 10):
Nice to see them finally hit mods, but in coach it will be tough to beat the product back in the NW days. That included the comfy cloth covers and great IFE selection (and I like handsets much better than touchscreens). Since DL took over the, leather covers (which didn't match the seat well) and DL programming was a downgrade. It's too bad that something nearly 10 years old will still be as good or better depending on your preference. If I get a chance to ride on a refurbished A330, it will be interesting to see how it compares to UA's 764s in coach. Now that is one nice ride.

I know we all have preferences, but I fail to see the voice of reason in your constant gripes against anything delta does and fail to see your broad point if there is one, but okay...

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 41):
"Ahead" in this case is a matter of personal preference. The chance that I will like this product more than the original A330 product or even UA's new product is slim to none.

The chance that you'll have a lot of company on that point of view is slim to none.
I've flown on 9V-SPK.
 
n7371f
Posts: 931
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:54 pm

RE: First DL A330 In For Interior Mods

Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:51 am

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 25):
Now if they would only move that lav from directly behind the cockpit further aft. It always maade me nervous to have passengers hanging around there.

Right because only every airplane has a restroom right behind the cockpit.

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