na
Topic Author
Posts: 9129
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

LH 744 Retired With Over 120.000 Hours

Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:28 pm

http://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb.main?LC=nav4&page=3

Worth every penny, D-ABVC is the latest of the 1989-built 744s Lufthansa has retired. With more than 120.000 hours its probably the 744 that has flown the most so far. I dont have the numbers of all of the twelve LH 744s retired so far, I only know no other airline has utilized them as much.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jens Breuer

 
sweair
Posts: 1816
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:59 am

RE: LH 744 Retired With Over 120.000 Hours

Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:36 pm

With good maintenance planes last a long time! Quality airline and airframe  
 
dalca
Posts: 186
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 8:36 am

RE: LH 744 Retired With Over 120.000 Hours

Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:39 pm

The LH 744's are well known for their long years of service and many hours logged. Also quite a testamant to the level of maintenance given by LH technik to them.
Maybe some of the KL B744's are also close to this mark, PH-BFA has been in fleet for more then 20 years now.
Zanair flight, please hold on finals as we have to clear rhino's off the runway. Next flight KUL-FRA-AMS Flown in A319,A
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Crew
Posts: 11747
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

RE: LH 744 Retired With Over 120.000 Hours

Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:51 pm

You might have thought LH was trying to get their money's worth out of them.   

Excellent birds. I hope to see a 748i top off order to see the 747 keep flying in LH service. Note: I also want to see more A388 sales too.

I personally hope to see (soon) a 748i order to replace A346s and more A388s to replace some additional 744s. Note: I do make the assumption that some of the future 748i will be in a higher density (less F/J, more Y) configuration.

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
User avatar
seabosdca
Posts: 4921
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:33 am

RE: LH 744 Retired With Over 120.000 Hours

Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:04 pm

And I bet it looked immaculate on its last flight. LH takes care of its aircraft.  
 
roseflyer
Posts: 9606
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:34 am

RE: LH 744 Retired With Over 120.000 Hours

Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:22 pm

120,000 is a lot of hours. Not many 747s get that high. I think KLM and Cathay Pacific are two of the other airlines that have gotten close or may have exceeded that. You have to have a rather unique route network to get that much utilization out of a 747.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
n471wn
Posts: 1321
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 12:23 am

RE: LH 744 Retired With Over 120.000 Hours

Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:24 pm

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 4):
And I bet it looked immaculate on its last flight. LH takes care of its aircraft

Yes and exactly opposite of what United does----United has retired 4 747-400's with less than 50,000 hours on the frames and at least in coach class (where I fly) the interiors are more often than not tired and dingy looking-----LH is just a cut above other carriers and a world apart from United.....well done LH!!
 
User avatar
GSPFlyer
Posts: 271
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2010 3:15 am

RE: LH 744 Retired With Over 120.000 Hours

Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:27 pm

120,000 hours equates to...

5000 days...

and over 13.5 years. Impressive!
 
LH707330
Posts: 1491
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:27 pm

RE: LH 744 Retired With Over 120.000 Hours

Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:28 pm

Which ones have they retired now? Is it D-ABVA, VB, and VC and all the D-ABT* frames with the cargo doors?
 
na
Topic Author
Posts: 9129
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

RE: LH 744 Retired With Over 120.000 Hours

Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:53 pm

Quoting LH707330 (Reply 8):
Which ones have they retired now? Is it D-ABVA, VB, and VC and all the D-ABT* frames with the cargo doors?

Almost right. D-ABVF is gone, too. And from the Cargo-door planes D-ABTF is still active.

http://www.lh-taufnamen.de/lufthansa/
http://www.lh-taufnamen.de/historische-flotte/
 
kaitak
Posts: 8937
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

RE: LH 744 Retired With Over 120.000 Hours

Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:00 pm

Quoting GSPflyer (Reply 7):
120,000 hours equates to...

5000 days...

and over 13.5 years. Impressive!

D-ABVC was delivered in October 1989, so that's twenty three years; leaving aside the last three months, that's over 14h daily utilisation; of course, that doesn't allow for maintenance visits, so the real figure is probably around 15h.
 
LH707330
Posts: 1491
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:27 pm

RE: LH 744 Retired With Over 120.000 Hours

Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:03 pm

Quoting na (Reply 9):

Good source, thanks. As an aside, I wonder if the site manager cares to know about their 707s, I researched all of them for a kit I built recently.

Do you know why LH bought the cargo door birds in the first place? Were they thinking of operating them as combis? I imagine they have a weight penalty of a .5-1 t.
 
sankaps
Posts: 1692
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:51 am

RE: LH 744 Retired With Over 120.000 Hours

Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:47 pm

I wonder how much the very first 744 ever delivered, ship 6303 to Northwest Airlines, has flown since in was delivered back in Jan 1989? It is still active with Delta today. The prototype 744 was delivered as ship 6301 to Northwest a few months later. 6302 was #2.
 
SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 4462
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

RE: LH 744 Retired With Over 120.000 Hours

Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:08 pm

Quoting LH707330 (Reply 11):
Do you know why LH bought the cargo door birds in the first place?

Lufthansa was already operating B747-200BM, so it's not a big jump. Plus, they have also operated B747F in-house. In fact I believe they were the first to have 747F. Then, out of their subsidiary German Cargo, they created LH Cargo back in 1994.
 
AADC10
Posts: 1507
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2004 7:40 am

RE: LH 744 Retired With Over 120.000 Hours

Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:23 pm

Quoting n471wn (Reply 6):
United has retired 4 747-400's with less than 50,000 hours on the frames and at least in coach class (where I fly) the interiors are more often than not tired and dingy looking

Were those leased aircraft? There is an incentive to keep owned aircraft operating but if the lease ends and they no longer fit into the airline's plans then they go back even if they have not been utilized that much. Some may have been shed during Ch. 11.

As we all know, just about the entire aircraft interior is removed during a D check except for the lavs and galleys. If the airline chose to go through the expense, all of the seats, bins, wall panels, carpet and such can be replaced with new items. The interiors look as new as the airline wants them to be. Replacing the interior costs millions, so lots of parts go back.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 18859
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: LH 744 Retired With Over 120.000 Hours

Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:23 pm

Quoting sankaps (Reply 12):
The prototype 744 was delivered as ship 6301 to Northwest a few months later. 6302 was #2.

The prototype (N661US) was the 6th 744 delivered to NW in December 1989.
 
roseflyer
Posts: 9606
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:34 am

RE: LH 744 Retired With Over 120.000 Hours

Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:33 pm

Quoting sankaps (Reply 12):
I wonder how much the very first 744 ever delivered, ship 6303 to Northwest Airlines, has flown since in was delivered back in Jan 1989? It is still active with Delta today. The prototype 744 was delivered as ship 6301 to Northwest a few months later. 6302 was #2.

I'd suspect closer to 100,000. The US airlines based on geography don't have as good of widebody utilization as the European airlines do. The schedule that Northwest used had airplanes having long ground times in DTW, MSP or in Asia. Lufthansa and KLM rotate their 747s between the US and Asia which helps with utilization since their 747s rarely sit anywhere overnight.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
User avatar
EPA001
Posts: 3786
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:13 pm

RE: LH 744 Retired With Over 120.000 Hours

Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:39 pm

Quoting GSPflyer (Reply 7):
120,000 hours equates to...

5000 days...

and over 13.5 years. Impressive!

That is putting things nicely in the right perspective. Very good and impressive number for the B744 at LH.  
 
nrt1011
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:08 pm

RE: LH 744 Retired With Over 120.000 Hours

Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:42 pm

I would imagine some of the BA and Qantas 747's would be logging hours such as above. They would be flying to the extremeties of the earth, in some ways I would imagine them flying more than the LH ones.
 
na
Topic Author
Posts: 9129
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

RE: LH 744 Retired With Over 120.000 Hours

Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:43 pm

Quoting nrt1011 (Reply 18):
I would imagine some of the BA and Qantas 747's would be logging hours such as above. They would be flying to the extremeties of the earth, in some ways I would imagine them flying more than the LH ones.

BA, yes, probably, KLM also, but QFs 744s are often sitting on the ground for long hours. In FRA they come in the arly morning and leave in the late evening. Other European destinations are likely not much different for QF.
 
skipness1E
Posts: 3370
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

RE: LH 744 Retired With Over 120.000 Hours

Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:46 pm

BA's oldest B744 is G-BNLE 93112 at 31/12/2011 apparently.
http://www.caa.co.uk/application.asp...e=detailnosummary&fullregmark=BNLE
 
User avatar
GSPFlyer
Posts: 271
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2010 3:15 am

RE: LH 744 Retired With Over 120.000 Hours

Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:09 am

Quoting na (Reply 19):
BA, yes, probably, KLM also, but QFs 744s are often sitting on the ground for long hours. In FRA they come in the arly morning and leave in the late evening. Other European destinations are likely not much different for QF.

You're right, and it's the same with LAX, other than the aircraft that continues to JFK.

Even the aircraft that flies SYD-DFW sits on the ground in DFW for about 8 hours before the return trip.
 
zanl188
Posts: 3436
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:05 pm

RE: LH 744 Retired With Over 120.000 Hours

Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:22 am

Quoting sankaps (Reply 12):
I wonder how much the very first 744 ever delivered, ship 6303 to Northwest Airlines, has flown since in was delivered back in Jan 1989? It is still active with Delta today. The prototype 744 was delivered as ship 6301 to Northwest a few months later. 6302 was #2.

With the FAAs SDR database ( http://av-info.faa.gov/sdrx/Query.aspx ) you can get a pretty good estimate:

As of 14 Dec 12 N661US / Ship 6301 has:
97277 hours / 12854 cycles

As of 13 Apr 12 N663US / Ship 6303 has:
95663 hours / 12450 cycles

A ways to go yet to catch the LH birds....

[Edited 2013-02-06 16:27:52]
Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
 
na
Topic Author
Posts: 9129
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

RE: LH 744 Retired With Over 120.000 Hours

Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:36 am

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 20):
BA's oldest B744 is G-BNLE 93112 at 31/12/2011 apparently.
http://www.caa.co.uk/application.asp...e=detailnosummary&fullregmark=BNLE

G-BNLE should be very close to 100.000 now then, still quite a difference to what LH achieved.

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 22):
As of 14 Dec 12 N661US / Ship 6301 has:
97277 hours / 12854 cycles

As of 13 Apr 12 N663US / Ship 6303 has:
95663 hours / 12450 cycles

Surprisingly low figures, I would have expected that these birds had crossed 100.000 already. No wonder Delta wants to fly them a few years longer.
 
na
Topic Author
Posts: 9129
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

RE: LH 744 Retired With Over 120.000 Hours

Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:57 am

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 20):
BA's oldest B744 is G-BNLE 93112 at 31/12/2011 apparently.
http://www.caa.co.uk/application.asp...=BNLE

Interestingly G-BNLI, G-BNLL and G-BNLM, about 3/4 of a year younger, were already above 100.000 hours at that date, end of 2011. Did -BNLE spend some time in unrecorded storage?
Also, Virgin´s oldest 744, G-VHOT, 5 years younger than G-BNLE, had just 9000 hours less at that time.
 
BA174
Posts: 289
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:55 pm

RE: LH 744 Retired With Over 120.000 Hours

Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:27 am

G-BNLE has never been stored long term, it even survived the desert in the thick of the credit crunch with much younger examples e.g. G-BNLU heading to the desert for a while. LE is a high J example so many of its missions will be east coast US/middle east and India which might explain why some mid Js which do some of the longer runs to SYD and Africa are ahead hours wise.
 
md2012
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 1:13 am

RE: LH 744 Retired With Over 120.000 Hours

Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:49 am

Doing the math, 120,000 hours in 23 years is equivalent of 14-15 hour of flight per 24hr day. AMAZING. Lufthansa had this plane airborne for 60% of the 23 years. Just an interesting thought.
 
daviation
Posts: 520
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:31 pm

RE: LH 744 Retired With Over 120.000 Hours

Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:55 am

I have flown on D-ABTB, D-ABVW, and D-ABVY. It appears from the database that the latter two now have upgraded amenities. The first one, D-ABTA (Brandenburg) was retired in August 2012. The name "Brandenburg" now appears on a new 747-830, D-ABYA.

I have to admit that D-ABTB, the aircraft I flew in 2010, was maintained in excellent condition by Lufthansa. Sitting in that cabin was like putting your feet in a nice old comfortable pair of shoes.
PlaneFlown:717,727,737,747,757,767,777,DC8,DC9,DC10,L1011,F100,A300,319,320,321,330,340,CRJ,ERJ,E190,Av85,DH8,Beaver,ATR
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Crew
Posts: 11747
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

RE: LH 744 Retired With Over 120.000 Hours

Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:13 am

Quoting md2012 (Reply 26):

Doing the math, 120,000 hours in 23 years is equivalent of 14-15 hour of flight per 24hr day. AMAZING. Lufthansa had this plane airborne for 60% of the 23 years. Just an interesting thought.

Break even is now about 13.5 hours. So while LH did incredible for that era, that is now 'business as usual.' Do not get me wrong... I'm impressed.

What is LH's A380 utilization out of curiosity?

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
packsonflight
Posts: 324
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:55 pm

RE: LH 744 Retired With Over 120.000 Hours

Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:27 am

3 years back I recall Lufthansa reporting that they had 5 CF6-80 series engines with more than 100.000 hours on wing, and 8 engines with more than 99.000 hours on wing out of total of 120 engines on the 744 fleet.

That is quite something!
 
User avatar
zkojq
Posts: 2239
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:42 am

RE: LH 744 Retired With Over 120.000 Hours

Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:16 am

Quoting kaitak (Reply 10):
D-ABVC was delivered in October 1989, so that's twenty three years

Twenty three years four months. Based on that lifespan, we can expect that Lufthansa's first Boeing 747-8 (D-ABYA) will be heading for the scrappers in August 2035!

Quoting sweair (Reply 1):
With good maintenance planes last a long time! Quality airline and airframe
Quoting n471wn (Reply 6):
LH is just a cut above other carriers

   I have many fond memories aboard Lufthansa 747s. Despite clearly being well used/utilised, each one I've been on has had a perfectly clean + tidy interior. Congrats Lufthansa.  
First to fly the 787-9 with Air New Zealand and ZK-NZE (2014-10-09, NZ103)
 
solarflyer22
Posts: 1452
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:07 pm

RE: LH 744 Retired With Over 120.000 Hours

Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:00 am

Quoting GSPflyer (Reply 7):
13.5 years. Impressive!

That's really amazing. To have operated safely for so long a period is truly a testament to human persistence and LH's great maintenance team.

Where are these aircraft being sent for re-cycling?
 
KDTWflyer
Posts: 786
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:51 pm

RE: LH 744 Retired With Over 120.000 Hours

Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:02 am

Thats pretty amazing really if you think about it. Say the plane averages 550mph, that is only about 66,000,000 miles or
106,451,612km   Or in other words, 354 light minutes or ~2,640 times around the Earth. Also that's about 13 1/2 YEARS airborne. Amazing.

*DOH* I didn't see the previous posts w/ those stats but yeah thats amazing.

[Edited 2013-02-06 20:03:53]
NW B744 B742 B753 B752 A333 A332 A320 A319 DC10 DC9 ARJ CRJ S340
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12362
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: LH 744 Retired With Over 120.000 Hours

Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:06 am

Apparently the last revenue flight of this a/c was from EWR to FRA. Was this a regular route for this a/c during it's life or where else were it regular routes ?

This proves a well made and well maintained a/c can get a lot of use. 120K hours with it cycles is pretty good and probably well within the expectations of Boeing when originally made.
 
YZFOO7F
Posts: 112
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 3:34 pm

RE: LH 744 Retired With Over 120.000 Hours

Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:40 am

It's amazing to me that a collection of metal, plastic, glass, and wires that weighs 875,000 lbs when fully loaded was free from the surface of the earth for a collective total of 13.5 years. Call me a simpleton, but I just think that's pretty cool.
Promise me you'll always leave the ground
 
columba
Posts: 5043
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:12 pm

RE: LH 744 Retired With Over 120.000 Hours

Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:57 am

With that good experience LH had with their 747s no wonder they commited to the 747-8I  
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
wilco737
Posts: 7279
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:21 am

RE: LH 744 Retired With Over 120.000 Hours

Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:05 am

The 744's are in excellent condition regarding their age. I fly them now for 2,5 years and never had real issues only minor things. Never had a delay due to technical reasons. Very impressive.

120,000 hours is a lot, but -VA had over 120k as well when it was scrapped. The oldest all getting close to that number.

R.I.P.

wilco737
  
 
Unflug
Posts: 692
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:25 pm

RE: LH 744 Retired With Over 120.000 Hours

Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:24 am

Quoting md2012 (Reply 26):
Doing the math, 120,000 hours in 23 years is equivalent of 14-15 hour of flight per 24hr day. AMAZING. Lufthansa had this plane airborne for 60% of the 23 years. Just an interesting thought.

Parking fees must be high here in Germany  
 
UALWN
Posts: 2172
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:27 pm

RE: LH 744 Retired With Over 120.000 Hours

Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:02 am

Quoting KDTWflyer (Reply 32):
106,451,612km   Or in other words, 354 light minutes

I believe you meant light seconds.
AT7/111/146/Avro/CRJ/CR9/EMB/ERJ/E75/F50/100/L15/DC9/D10/M8X/717/727/737/747/757/767/777/787/AB6/310/32X/330/340/380
 
wilco737
Posts: 7279
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:21 am

RE: LH 744 Retired With Over 120.000 Hours

Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:09 am

Quoting Unflug (Reply 37):
Parking fees must be high here in Germany  

Oh they are   

An airplane only makes money when in the air.

During the winter there are some 744's parked as well in FRA as we don't need them right now. But summer flight plan starts soon and they will be back in service soon.

And more 747-8i soon   

wilco737
  
 
photoshooter
Posts: 410
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:12 pm

RE: LH 744 Retired With Over 120.000 Hours

Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:14 am

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 39):
During the winter there are some 744's parked as well in FRA as we don't need them right now.

Wouldn't it be cheaper to park them somewhere else in Germany? Or is there a lack of space?
(I have DUS/HAM/MUC in mind)
'A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.' - Winston Churchill
 
wilco737
Posts: 7279
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:21 am

RE: LH 744 Retired With Over 120.000 Hours

Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:16 am

Quoting photoshooter (Reply 40):
Wouldn't it be cheaper to park them somewhere else in Germany? Or is there a lack of space?
(I have DUS/HAM/MUC in mind)

That would cost money to fly them there: fees, fuel etc. And in FRA they can be reactivated faster. They are not stored, just not needed at the moment and can be used within hours.

wilco737
  
 
User avatar
zkojq
Posts: 2239
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:42 am

RE: LH 744 Retired With Over 120.000 Hours

Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:41 am

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 36):
120,000 hours is a lot, but -VA had over 120k as well when it was scrapped. The oldest all getting close to that number.

Is that a record? I doubt any other aircraft, civil or military, would have exceeded that time.
First to fly the 787-9 with Air New Zealand and ZK-NZE (2014-10-09, NZ103)
 
wilco737
Posts: 7279
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:21 am

RE: LH 744 Retired With Over 120.000 Hours

Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:43 am

Quoting zkojq (Reply 42):

From what I have heard there was a 742 or 741 which had even more hours, but cannot remember which one it was.

From what I read is that most of the LH 744's which got retired now were close or above 120k hours.

wilco737
  
 
User avatar
Loran
Posts: 574
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 11:13 am

RE: LH 744 Retired With Over 120.000 Hours

Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:54 am

Here is an overview of the LH fleet utilization:

Reg / Model / Data Reference Date / Total Flying Hours / Total Cycles
D-ABVC 747-400 30.11.2011 119'885.00 15'107.00
D-ABVE 747-400 30.11.2011 116'845.00 14'306.00
D-ABVD 747-400 30.11.2011 117'572.00 14'652.00
D-ABVF 747-400 30.11.2011 116'531.00 13'949.00
D-ABVH 747-400 30.11.2011 112'411.00 13'539.00
D-ABVO 747-400 30.11.2011 86'952.00 10'390.00
D-ABVK 747-400 30.11.2011 112'093.00 13'470.00
D-ABVL 747-400 30.11.2011 108'846.00 13'164.00
D-ABVN 747-400 30.11.2011 107'637.00 12'933.00
D-ABVP 747-400 30.11.2011 83'209.00 10'036.00
D-ABVR 747-400 30.11.2011 83'689.00 9'952.00
D-ABVS 747-400 30.11.2011 82'842.00 9'925.00
D-ABVT 747-400 30.11.2011 82'524.00 9'903.00
D-ABVX 747-400 30.11.2011 67'662.00 8'240.00
D-ABVY 747-400 30.11.2011 63'390.00 7'800.00
D-ABVZ 747-400 30.11.2011 63'207.00 7'777.00
D-ABTK 747-400 30.11.2011 56'272.00 7'007.00
D-ABTL 747-400 30.11.2011 56'344.00 7'022.00
D-ABVW 747-400 30.11.2011 72'888.00 8'690.00
D-ABVM 747-400 30.11.2011 74'712.00 9'060.00
D-ABVU 747-400 30.11.2011 73'940.00 9'105.00
D-ABTD 747-400PC 30.11.2011 112'465.00 14'430.00
D-ABTE 747-400PC 30.11.2011 106'682.00 13'525.00
D-ABTF 747-400PC 30.11.2011 108'539.00 13'684.00
D-ABTH 747-400PC 30.11.2011 108'417.00 13'737.00
D-ABYA 747-8 2'193.00 331.00
D-ABYC 747-8 1'774.00 237.00
D-ABYD 747-8 1'117.00 152.00
D-ABYF 747-8 273.00 43.00

Apologies converting all this into a table is quite a task.

Quoting nrt1011 (Reply 18):
I would imagine some of the BA and Qantas 747's would be logging hours such as above. They would be flying to the extremeties of the earth, in some ways I would imagine them flying more than the LH ones.

As already mentioned QF has longer ground times than LH. The highest clocking 744 of QF was as of 05.08.2011 VH-OJF with just under 100'000 hours. I assume by now it has crossed the 100'000 hours mark.

Regards,
Loran
703 717 727 732-9 747 757 767 777 788 AB2/6 310 318-321 330 340 380 D8M D91/3/5 D1C M11 M81-90 L10 AN2/3/F/4/6/28/74/40/48/58 IL1/8/6/7/W/9/4 TU3/5/2 YK4/2
 
wilco737
Posts: 7279
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:21 am

RE: LH 744 Retired With Over 120.000 Hours

Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:58 am

Quoting Loran (Reply 44):
Here is an overview of the LH fleet utilization:

Thanks for that list. I was just checking myself with the latest figures.

D-ABVC has a total hours as of today: 120,672 hours.

D-ABTK is the one with the least hours: roughly 57,000 hours.

D-ABYA the 'oldest' 748 is just above 3100 hours now.


Looks like we will see the 744 for some more years 

wilco737
  
 
User avatar
Loran
Posts: 574
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 11:13 am

RE: LH 744 Retired With Over 120.000 Hours

Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:02 am

Quoting zkojq (Reply 42):
Quoting wilco737 (Reply 43):

To my knowledge the 747 airframe was designed for 130'000 and/or a cycle number which I can't remember (I assume 20'000). There were or still are some 747 classic freighters out there - from memory it was Kalitta or Polar Air Cargo - which were near 130'000 hours.

LH is retiring them slightly earlier due to maintenance raising sharply towards this benchmark. It could also be that another D-check is coming up soon.

Regards,
Loran
703 717 727 732-9 747 757 767 777 788 AB2/6 310 318-321 330 340 380 D8M D91/3/5 D1C M11 M81-90 L10 AN2/3/F/4/6/28/74/40/48/58 IL1/8/6/7/W/9/4 TU3/5/2 YK4/2
 
User avatar
seahawk
Posts: 3384
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 1:29 am

RE: LH 744 Retired With Over 120.000 Hours

Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:03 am

And apart from that storing the 744 at DUS would just cause a spotter flashmob... 
 
wilco737
Posts: 7279
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:21 am

RE: LH 744 Retired With Over 120.000 Hours

Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:07 am

Quoting Loran (Reply 46):
To my knowledge the 747 airframe was designed for 130'000

I read about the same number.

Quoting Loran (Reply 46):
LH is retiring them slightly earlier due to maintenance raising sharply towards this benchmark. It could also be that another D-check is coming up soon.

Yes, this 130,000 would required a D6 Check (IIRC) and that costs a hell of a lot money and is usually not worth it.

Quoting seahawk (Reply 47):
And apart from that storing the 744 at DUS would just cause a spotter flashmob... 

Not really a flashmob, there is a 747 every once in a while there. The 748 caused many people to head out to the airport.

wilco737
  
 
na
Topic Author
Posts: 9129
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

RE: LH 744 Retired With Over 120.000 Hours

Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:27 am

Quoting Loran (Reply 46):
Quoting zkojq (Reply 42):
Quoting wilco737 (Reply 43):

To my knowledge the 747 airframe was designed for 130'000 and/or a cycle number which I can't remember (I assume 20'000). There were or still are some 747 classic freighters out there - from memory it was Kalitta or Polar Air Cargo - which were near 130'000 hours.

Two Southern Air 742SF (ex KLM) with around 135.000 hours are the recordholders in hours (and probably of all airplanes as I never heard about a higher number, not even from the sturdy DC-10 of which some also reached 120k)

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 43):
From what I read is that most of the LH 744's which got retired now were close or above 120k hours.

Thats for sure, as they are being retired at the same age and with the exception of one plane none have ever spend any reasonable time in storage. All 744s retired so far have reached over 115.000. D-ABVA had 118.000 hours for example.

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 48):
Yes, this 130,000 would required a D6 Check (IIRC) and that costs a hell of a lot money and is usually not worth it

Are you sure? I have an official paper of one of the earlier LH 744s from 1991 charging more than 20 mil $ for an "airframe escalation" to 120.000 hours, so 120.000 was already an option and more than the standard 744 is built for. So if your 130k hours limit is right now, maybe later-built frames can achieve higher numbers.

Quoting dalca (Reply 2):
Maybe some of the KL B744's are also close to this mark, PH-BFA has been in fleet for more then 20 years now.

PH-BFA is even older than D-ABVC, its been flying 23 years 9 months and surely must be well over 100.000 as KLM is also known for good utilization. Still KLM holds on to their older 744s, no rumours when the first will leave the fleet. PH-BFA though had her last D-check in early 2007, so the next would be in about a year´s time. I assume thats the day it´ll go into well deserved retirement then.

Quoting Loran (Reply 44):

Thanks for that list. I used to have access to these, but lost the link.

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 31):
Where are these aircraft being sent for re-cycling?

All go to Tupelo/Mississippi. I think they are processed rather quick. I know of no other airline who is so keen not to have any pictures taken of their planes during dismantling.

Quoting daviation (Reply 27):
I have to admit that D-ABTB, the aircraft I flew in 2010, was maintained in excellent condition by Lufthansa. Sitting in that cabin was like putting your feet in a nice old comfortable pair of shoes.

Indeed. In the past 24 months I have been on several of the old 744s now retired, among them TC and TE. If you would have told anyone not into avaition these were 2 years old and not over 20, everyone would have believed you.

Quoting zkojq (Reply 30):
Twenty three years four months. Based on that lifespan, we can expect that Lufthansa's first Boeing 747-8 (D-ABYA) will be heading for the scrappers in August 2035!

By that time I will be well over 70. Amazing thought, maybe my first longhaul flight, and my last, will be on a 747!

Who is online