doulasc
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No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:01 pm

I heard some airlines have a no kid policy in their upper decks on A380 and 747s.which airlines are doing this?
Where do they draw the line on age? Whats the reasoning behind this?
 
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KarelXWB
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No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:04 pm

I believe MH has this policy too.
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G500
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No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:05 pm

What's the reasoning behind this?

I don't think business people want a screaming child seating next to them. That noise might music to parents' ears, but its pure torture to mine..

Kudos to whichever airlines are doing this
 
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Stitch
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No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:12 pm

Malaysia Airlines does not allow children under 12 to be seated in the upper deck Economy section of the A380-800 unless the main deck is full and they can only be accommodated in the upper deck. Malaysia Airlines also does not allow infants to be seated in the First Class cabin of their 747-400 aircraft.

AirAsia X has also banned children under 12 from the first seven rows on flights to China, Taiwan, Japan, Korea, Australia and Nepal. This forward section is separated from the rest of the plane with curtains and lavatories, so not sure how effective it will be unless the kids are parked in the aft of the plane.
 
goldenargosy
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No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:13 pm

Looking forward to knowing which airlines do this. I will go out of my way to fly with them.
 
Cubsrule
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No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:15 pm

Can I have a "no obnoxious drunks allowed" section on my flights? I have many more problems with poorly behaved adults than with poorly behaved children.
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dfambro
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No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:16 pm

UA will probably implement it with the 747s after what my toddler did during our last trip to Hong Kong...
        
 
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reffado
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No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:33 pm

While it makes sense, it may cause trouble. I agree that screaming infants are far from being a delight, but banning paying passengers from traveling with their kids in forward cabins seems a bit too much. What if I have a kid and want to fly F? I can't? That's just stupid. I say that because my first flight was when I was 2 - in the F cabin on the upper deck of an RG 747. My parents received no complaints. Because in Y there was not enough space and the whole family would be cramped, the wider seats were a need. I mean, if passengers want to upgrade, sure, it's a reason to deny them, but if they're paying, I can't see the logic.

[Edited 2013-02-07 13:35:54]
 
bond007
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No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:40 pm

Quoting reffado (Reply 8):
What if I have a kid and want to fly F? I can't? That's just stupid. I say that because my first flight was when I was 2 - in the F cabin

I'm sure many F fare paying pax would be very upset (as I would be), having paid a very high premium, only to end up next to a screaming 2 year old for the whole flight.

When you say "if they're paying...", you must remember the other pax without children who are also paying. Often those who complain about their 'rights', forget about the 'rights' of all the others  


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reffado
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No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:48 pm

On the various flights I've been in, I've seen both, very calm (most of the times) and very annoying kids. The problem as I see it is the parents not controlling their children. That said, toddlers I may see the point, but for general young kids (9-12 or so), I would rather seat beside them than beside some fat person, or a lousy smelly adult, which I have seen several times.

However, I do understand what you said, and seeing it that way, it does make sense. But, at least here, I can't see someone showing up with say, $5000 for an F ticket for their kid and the airline saying they won't take it.
 
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aerdingus
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No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:23 pm

Could it possibly be from a safety standpoint? The emergency slides etc?

Just a thought.
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No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:43 pm

Quoting reffado (Reply 10):
However, I do understand what you said, and seeing it that way, it does make sense. But, at least here, I can't see someone showing up with say, $5000 for an F ticket for their kid and the airline saying they won't take it.

They'll just have to slum it in J.
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sandyb123
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No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:44 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 5):
Can I have a "no obnoxious drunks allowed" section on my flights? I have many more problems with poorly behaved adults than with poorly behaved children.

Agreed. I have seen to many times drunk J & F pax who behave threateningly and obnoxiously to the point they have the attention of the full cabin.

Quoting reffado (Reply 10):
The problem as I see it is the parents not controlling their children

Agreed also. My 7 year old daughter is travelling with her mother in F on Monday and understands that she has to behave well and be considerate of other pax.

BTW she's the same on U2 etc there seems to be an implication that we're talking premium cabins here.

I have seen families who seem to think that airplanes are extensions of the soft-play and the crew are there to entertain them whilst they sit back and relax. It really annoys me as a parent.

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Viscount724
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No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:47 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 5):
Can I have a "no obnoxious drunks allowed" section on my flights? I have many more problems with poorly behaved adults than with poorly behaved children.

Totally agree. I've been on far more flights where adults were much more annoying than children or infants.
 
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:53 pm

Quoting doulasc (Thread starter):
I heard some airlines have a no kid policy in their upper decks on A380 and 747s.which airlines are doing this?
Where do they draw the line on age? Whats the reasoning behind this?

I've just checked the SQ and LH websites for information about traveling in premium classes with children -- no posted prohibition that I could find. Yet there is a sense among fliers, expressed in the posts above, that children below a certain age -- say, six or eight -- should not be in J or F, for the comfort of the adults in those cabins.

It really comes down to good parenting -- if your whelp is poorly behaved, fly coach, or drive. Societal or peer pressure can enforce this.

But you specified the "upper decks", not upper classes. During an evacuation situation, would children be more at risk for injury by using the upper deck slides than the lower deck ones? I tend to think not, as kids, with their flexible bodies and "this is fun!" attitude, would probably do better on the higher slides than grown-ups. Infants, however, could pop out of their parents' arms or otherwise encumber the evacuation...

These issues surely were investigated during aircraft certification, and I'm not aware of any official regulatory prohibition of children upstairs.
 
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:58 am

Quoting Schweigend (Reply 15):
It really comes down to good parenting -- if your whelp is poorly behaved, fly coach, or drive. Societal or peer pressure can enforce this.

Anybody who thinks that a child's behavior is 100 percent correlated to parenting quality needs to spend more time with children. Good parents can get their children to behave more often than bad parents can, but even the best-raised children have occasional bad days (and, conversely, even children with the worst parents sometimes behave).
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:49 am

Quoting reffado (Reply 8):
What if I have a kid and want to fly F?

Fly a different airline or start your own.

Kudos to this policy, I think all airlines should have a screaming kid section. Nothing aggravates me more than listening to a screaming kid for hours
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nrt1011
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:19 am

Stick them all in the back row next to the toilets, the kids that is
 
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:33 am

Quoting bond007 (Reply 9):
Often those who complain about their 'rights', forget about the 'rights' of all the others

Perfect way to say it!!
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:43 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 5):
Can I have a "no obnoxious drunks allowed" section on my flights? I have many more problems with poorly behaved adults than with poorly behaved children.

Agreed. I've had to endure chatty people in the aisles and drunkards blathering loudly much more than kids
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:48 am

This has come up several times before. I agree with the "Kid Free" section. So many times, especially on flights in and out of Orlando, Orange County and even SLC -there have been so many disruptive children that it is impossible to relax, concentrate or sleep. Perhaps, instead of positioning children all throughout the cabin, the last few rows could be reserved for "Families". Often other families are "Immune" to the squeals, screams and other VERY annoying sounds and behaviors of other children and are not bothered in the least......as for me - there are few things I hate more than being disturbed by a high pitched, blood curdling screech in the middle of a flight while hurtling 600mph in a tube you can't escape from. You have to sit there and bare it and, while your ears bleed, and head splits wide open you wonder why someone else who has executive authority over an airline hasn't figured out that "Adult Flights" would really be quite profitable. I'd pay a higher price for guaranteed peace. In my line of work, it is often the only time I get to actually sleep and I get super annoyed when it's all through the cabin. There is often a chain reaction from one child to another, to another. You can see it coming. Southwest has the right idea, board the children early, or better still in the first 15....then we can avoid them. Better still, they should board them and advise them the back, or front 3 rows are reserved for them and to all sit there. That puts maximum distance between them and the majority of us who wish to be far, far away. It is not unreasonable to want this. When you are at a fine restaurant, and want to enjoy a quiet evening - this is to be expected, a commercial flight should be no different - especially if it is marketed this way. I say bring on the noise ordinance.....
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:27 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 5):
Can I have a "no obnoxious drunks allowed" section on my flights


Agree. My last two flights with BA (LHR-CPT-LHR) were delayed whilst adults were removed for being drunk and aggressive to staff...on my LHR-CPT flight it was a pax from 1st who was ejected by a couple of chaps in yellow jackets and on the return a couple of lads from the rear who had apparently turned out have had a too few many Castles

The Captain advised us on the LHR-CPT flight "that one of our passengers has decided not to travel with us tonight....."!

The crew were very amused and chatted about how this chap had literally thrown his toys out of the pram (or probably his BA pyjamas) from the moment he had stepped on. My 7 year old son sat quietly and contently for 12 hours both ways

I can appreciate the market for a quiet cabin, but how far down the line does one go within such a cabin....no groups of lads or lasses, separate business passengers so we don't get to hear how great they are, no alcohol served, certainly no irritating lap top activity, no "chatty" people?

If some muppets are prepared to pay an extra few quid to sit in front of a curtain in a cabin environment which is generally 80dB, then good luck to the airlines
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:51 pm

Quoting bond007 (Reply 8):
I'm sure many F fare paying pax would be very upset (as I would be), having paid a very high premium, only to end up next to a screaming 2 year old for the whole flight.

When you say "if they're paying...", you must remember the other pax without children who are also paying. Often those who complain about their 'rights', forget about the 'rights' of all the others

I'm sure economy pax would also be upset to end up close to a screaming 2 year old for the whole flight. And 1 kid can annoy far more people in economy than in first. But they didn't pay the premium, does that mean they don't have those 'rights'?
 
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:15 pm

Quoting bond007 (Reply 8):
you must remember the other pax without children who are also paying. Often those who complain about their 'rights', forget about the 'rights' of all the others

Where in the terms and conditions of your ticket does it say you have the right to experience a child-free flight?

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 16):
Fly a different airline or start your own.

Mature.

Quoting kann123air (Reply 18):
Perfect way to say it!!

Kids are part of life. Infants scream because it the only way they can express their discomfort at being in a noisy, alien environment with earache. Do try to get over it.
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Dufo
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:26 pm

What is the point of travelling with infants anyway?
I understand if you're moving to live somewhere but to take them on a visit or vacation when they're that young? Couldn't you give them to relatives for those few days?

I have seen to many 'do not give a crap' attitude of parents who did nothing to comfort the disturbed child.
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Quokkas
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:29 pm

What's all this talk of "rights"?

The only right that you have is the reasonable expectation to be carried from point A to point B as ticketed. Nowhere is there any mention of being carried in absolute silence. If the travelling public wanted to bear the cost of cabins with sound-proof partitioning so that their ears are spared the sound of infants crying, I am sure the airlines would be happy to accommodate them. But as passengers show that the most important thing is the cheapness of the ticket, the airlines are left with accommodating passengers with infants wherever seats are available. And these will be dispersed throughout the cabin, especially since bassinets are typically affixed to bulkheads.

Contracts/ Conditions of Carriage rightly impose responsibilities on adults, including observing directions from crew and behaviour. Kicking rowdy drunks off the flight is appropriate. I would rather fly with an infant screaming than I would with Gerald D urinating on the cabin floor because he thinks he's entitled to.
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bond007
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:33 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 23):
Where in the terms and conditions of your ticket does it say you have the right to experience a child-free flight?

The same place where it says children have a right to sit in anywhere on the aircraft.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 23):
Kids are part of life. Infants scream because it the only way they can express their discomfort at being in a noisy, alien environment with earache. Do try to get over it.

Nobody here disagrees with that, but there is nothing to 'get over'. Most folks, including yourself probably, would rather not sit next to a screaming child for an extended time....especially if you paid a premium for a more comfortable environment.

Quoting Jalap (Reply 22):
I'm sure economy pax would also be upset to end up close to a screaming 2 year old for the whole flight. And 1 kid can annoy far more people in economy than in first. But they didn't pay the premium, does that mean they don't have those 'rights'?

Well, of course there are none of these 'rights', hence the reason I put it in quotes. That's exactly my point - yes, a screaming child disturbs everyone. I fail to understand why, if you ARE going to restrict where children can sit, it would not be where pax pay a premium for a more comfortable, restful flight ... after all, that's how F is marketed.


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aerdingus
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:34 pm

Quoting Jalap (Reply 22):
I'm sure economy pax would also be upset to end up close to a screaming 2 year old for the whole flight. And 1 kid can annoy far more people in economy than in first. But they didn't pay the premium, does that mean they don't have those 'rights'?

You said it pal! Everyone had rights, no matter what cabin they´re travelling in. Of course those in F & J have more entitlements, but that´s stuff built into the ticket. No one deserves to have a screaming kid stuck beside them, & yes usually it´s because kids are kids, & babies especially don´t understand what´s happening. Spoiled brats are another story though (maybe put those ones in F)
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:56 pm

Quoting Dufo (Reply 24):
What is the point of travelling with infants anyway?
I understand if you're moving to live somewhere but to take them on a visit or vacation when they're that young? Couldn't you give them to relatives for those few days?

Children are not pets...  
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Cubsrule
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:11 pm

Quoting bond007 (Reply 26):
Most folks, including yourself probably, would rather not sit next to a screaming child for an extended time....especially if you paid a premium for a more comfortable environment.

Where I'm struggling is with the broad brush with which this policy paints children (as opposed to disruptive children). I've had some lovely flights next to children, including an 18 month old on CDG-ATL a few years back who behaved like a dream the whole way.

I'd rather sit next to the average child than to the average drunk.
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bond007
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:18 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 29):
I'd rather sit next to the average child than to the average drunk.

Agreed, but the drunk should never have been allowed to board .... but that would be a whole thread by itself!

Unfortunately the best of children, wonderfully behaved, with great parents, can still scream if you sit them on a plane for a number of hours. That's what children do.

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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:30 pm

Quoting aerdingus (Reply 10):
Could it possibly be from a safety standpoint? The emergency slides etc?

Just a thought.

No, they still have to have the safety slides on the main deck.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 5):

Can I have a "no obnoxious drunks allowed" section on my flights? I have many more problems with poorly behaved adults than with poorly behaved children.

I have seen that before, the drunk thing in F, and the Captain came and escorted the passenger to the F/A's seats in the back of the plane with the help of a few of us. He was there for the duration of the flight in restraints until we landed and the authorities took him away. By the time we had landed, he had messed himself and had passed out.

Quoting reffado (Reply 7):

While it makes sense, it may cause trouble. I agree that screaming infants are far from being a delight, but banning paying passengers from traveling with their kids in forward cabins seems a bit too much. What if I have a kid and want to fly F? I can't? That's just stupid. I say that because my first flight was when I was 2 - in the F cabin on the upper deck of an RG 747. My parents received no complaints. Because in Y there was not enough space and the whole family would be cramped, the wider seats were a need. I mean, if passengers want to upgrade, sure, it's a reason to deny them, but if they're paying, I can't see the logic.

You don't pay the money for a comfortable nights sleep, but to have a quiet atmosphere for working and preparing for meetings that you are travelling for. I don't find sleeping on an aircraft to be a great experience at any time. I always get stiff and really don't find it that comfortable. Yes, I do nap when I am tired, but really? Sleep? I don't see why. If you are that tired maybe the children are not going to bother you any ways. 99% of the time there are not going to be children in the premium cabins and you won't have to worry. Who would travel with children in F anyway?

Quoting qantasguy (Reply 20):


This has come up several times before. I agree with the "Kid Free" section. So many times, especially on flights in and out of Orlando, Orange County and even SLC -there have been so many disruptive children that it is impossible to relax, concentrate or sleep.

Well, in case you don't realize, those destinations have an attraction called Disney and a lot of families like to go there.

Quoting Jalap (Reply 22):
I'm sure economy pax would also be upset to end up close to a screaming 2 year old for the whole flight. And 1 kid can annoy far more people in economy than in first. But they didn't pay the premium, does that mean they don't have those 'rights'?

Yes, because I can work in the tight constraints of Y, it is the people around me that are annoying and the reason I prefer to travel in J or F or what ever the top class is in the aircraft when I am on business. I also don't enjoy talking with the new parents or grandparents or the lowest common denominator of society in the seat beside me. I avoid traveling on weekends, and holidays to avoid the highest traveled periods and that gives you fewer chances of running into those type of people.
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discovery1
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:57 pm

Quoting Jalap (Reply 22):

I'm sure economy pax would also be upset to end up close to a screaming 2 year old for the whole flight. And 1 kid can annoy far more people in economy than in first. But they didn't pay the premium, does that mean they don't have those 'rights'?

The best idea I've heard is to create a special area for pax with young children, probably toward the back, and then have the pax sitting near said area getting a discount with the knowledge that they will be near a bunch of youth. Only problem is parents who's kids are actually silent get kinda screwed.

Also, it's not a good idea to bring someone too young to pop their ears on a plane. You are putting both the child and the other pax in an extremely uncomfortable position.
 
Rufusisgod
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:28 pm

It's due to the slide height off the ground not being suitable for children under 12. More chance of them being injured.
 
enginebird
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:29 pm

Quoting discovery1 (Reply 32):
Also, it's not a good idea to bring someone too young to pop their ears on a plane. You are putting both the child and the other pax in an extremely uncomfortable position.

It is also not a good idea to express an opinion, if you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Our son had more than 30 legs under his belt when he turned 2, including at least 4 intercontinental trips. Believe it or not, not a single cry or squeal from him on any of these flights. -- Flying is a lot more problematic now that he is old enough to move around and express his wish to move around. I have to make sure now the plane has decent IFE, which usually solves all problems for flights up to 12 hours.

Seems to be clearly observable in the above posts that there are two groups who do not seem to understand each other: Parents and those poor individuals who thought that things like success in their jobs could be anywhere nearly as rewarding as having children of themselves...

I am going to fly on the upper deck of a BA B744 next week and again three weeks from now and will no doubt enjoy the peace and quiet you usually get up there. The decision to reserve a seat upstairs, however, had much more to do with the overall lower noise level and the smaller total number of seats "upstairs" than with the likely absence of children.

Let me say to those guys who want to ban children from planes: You were not born 20 years old...
 
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:32 pm

Quoting bond007 (Reply 30):
Agreed, but the drunk should never have been allowed to board ....


What if a sober pax board and turned into a drunk somewhere in the midst of a long flight?
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georgiaame
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:37 pm

Quoting goldenargosy (Reply 4):
I will go out of my way to fly with them
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 5):
Can I have a "no obnoxious drunks allowed" section on my flights?

I'll take the drunk over the out of control kid any day. But that said, I'll pay a premium to avoid either. Many has been the time Delta has graced me with a screaming child up in first. Sorry, no excuse for paying premium fares to avoid the shrieking, and getting stuck with it. This from a father of 2, and a well behaved puppy.
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fanofjets
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:57 pm

OK, I am in the minority here. Then, again, I am used to having an opinion that differs from that of the manority. So, I'll just state my case; people are free to agree or disagree. (After all, that's why they call this space a forum.)

Here goes.... I happen to love children. They bring smiles to my face. Yes, loud crying does bother me, as do many other loud noises. The crying, however, is usually during take-off and landing, when the pressurization system is trying to do its thing. Children's ear canals, being not fully developed, are much more sensitive than those of adults. They cannot help it. Chewing gum is an age-old remedy. I know airlines are cutting back on everything, from meals to toilet paper. Spending the money on having extra chewing gum aboard would be a wise investment; some parents forget this essential ingredient, something that gets lost in the gazillion other things parents need to pack for traveling children. (I even lost a very expensive SLR camera in the process of getting a diaper bag ready.)

There was a time, long ago and far away, back in the days when we flew aboard those new-fangled contraptions called Jet Clippers, Star Stream Jets, and Astrojets. I treasured my little pilots wings! "The Flight of Man," - probably stolen from Alberto "Man flies!" Santos-Dumont. Flight attendents would be available to offer comfort to young travelers. Swissair (I remember them well!) used to have playing cards and Matchbox cars (which now sell for a lot of money on eBay, under the heading of "antique and classic toys." Sorry, but those TV screens nowadays simply act as sedatives with some very nasty withdrawal effects when those electronic wonders are shut down. (Unfortunately, we cannot do anything about long security lines and huge, impersonal mega hubs and missed connections, but the wonder of flight remains once we are safely cacooned in that aluminium tube.)

It is sad that most adults simply do not want to have anything to do with childhood. Furthermore, too many of us have lost that childhood sense of wonder and excitement of discovery. (That's why I am such a fan of the beautiful in-flight cabin window views here on A.net.) Nine out of ten of my last flights have been at capacity. I do not recall at any time being bothered by "screaming" children. I saw beautiful, smiling faces. Personally, I would not want to fly on an airplane without them. As someone with very limited funds, I always travel "cattle class"; my only complaint about is the lack of space. And, yes, I did have to put up with some insufferable screaming and rudeness. Only these behaviors came from adults.
The aeroplane has unveiled for us the true face of the earth. -Antoine de Saint-Exupery
 
CalebWilliams
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:19 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 15):
Quoting Schweigend (Reply 15):
It really comes down to good parenting -- if your whelp is poorly behaved, fly coach, or drive. Societal or peer pressure can enforce this.

Anybody who thinks that a child's behavior is 100 percent correlated to parenting quality needs to spend more time with children. Good parents can get their children to behave more often than bad parents can, but even the best-raised children have occasional bad days (and, conversely, even children with the worst parents sometimes behave).

Clearly true. I had great parents, but sometimes when I was younger, it would have been quite bad to be with me on a plane on some days (5 through 12ish years old probably).
Caleb Williams MSP AUS STL AMS CPH LGW YYZ
 
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seabosdca
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:27 pm

Quoting enginebird (Reply 34):
Let me say to those guys who want to ban children from planes: You were not born 20 years old...

Who is talking about banning children from planes? We are talking about a child-free section. I would gladly pay more to sit in such a section, although extending the ban to 12 is too high. The two behaviors that you can't escape are screaming and seat-kicking, and those are typically not done by kids older than 5 or 6.
 
enginebird
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:52 pm

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 40):
Who is talking about banning children from planes? We are talking about a child-free section.

If you were not talking about banning kids from planes, then you were not among the intended addressees of my comment. Some people above, however, suggest that parents should not fly with young children at all and -- whenever the topic comes up here on a-net -- some want to ban kids from planes altogether. Nonsense.
 
greg3322
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:01 pm

So, you basically want kids to sit in "the back of the bus?" I thought we got over that kind of thinking in the U.S. years ago. Guess not.

Quoting qantasguy (Reply 20):
This has come up several times before. I agree with the "Kid Free" section. So many times, especially on flights in and out of Orlando, Orange County and even SLC -there have been so many disruptive children that it is impossible to relax, concentrate or sleep. Perhaps, instead of positioning children all throughout the cabin, the last few rows could be reserved for "Families". Often other families are "Immune" to the squeals, screams and other VERY annoying sounds and behaviors of other children and are not bothered in the least......as for me - there are few things I hate more than being disturbed by a high pitched, blood curdling screech in the middle of a flight while hurtling 600mph in a tube you can't escape from. You have to sit there and bare it and, while your ears bleed, and head splits wide open you wonder why someone else who has executive authority over an airline hasn't figured out that "Adult Flights" would really be quite profitable. I'd pay a higher price for guaranteed peace. In my line of work, it is often the only time I get to actually sleep and I get super annoyed when it's all through the cabin. There is often a chain reaction from one child to another, to another. You can see it coming. Southwest has the right idea, board the children early, or better still in the first 15....then we can avoid them. Better still, they should board them and advise them the back, or front 3 rows are reserved for them and to all sit there. That puts maximum distance between them and the majority of us who wish to be far, far away. It is not unreasonable to want this. When you are at a fine restaurant, and want to enjoy a quiet evening - this is to be expected, a commercial flight should be no different - especially if it is marketed this way. I say bring on the noise ordinance.....
 
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:03 pm

Children should be banned completely! All adult travelers were *angels* when they were kids and never caused any problems whatsoever  And they're always a dream to deal with as adults. I always find these "ban children" threads a reflection of the nastier element of human nature. The only problems I've ever had with fellow travelers have been with adults being abusive to each other, not a fussy child whose parents are probably dying of embarassment and wanting to quiet the child a thousand times more than fellow passengers.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:23 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 23):
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 16):
Fly a different airline or start your own.

Mature.

I'm for real, I don't see why people feel entitled to twist businesses to do what they want. If he wants a kid in F, fly a different airline. If I want to fly in F without kids, I'm restricted to these airlines
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:24 pm

Quoting greg3322 (Reply 44):
So, you basically want kids to sit in "the back of the bus?" I thought we got over that kind of thinking in the U.S. years ago. Guess not.

No, we should ban the handicapped too, and maybe have a homosexual free section, and maybe a bathed and unbathed section. We could board and sit by race or gender too. The Elite could wear little arm badges showing they have status and are not to be directly addressed unless by staff.


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falstaff
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:43 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 5):
I have many more problems with poorly behaved adults than with poorly behaved children.

Same here.

Quoting reffado (Reply 7):
if I have a kid and want to fly F? I can't? That's just stupid. I say that because my first flight was when I was 2 - in the F cabin on the upper deck of an RG 747. My parents received no complaints.

I flew F several times on TW L1011s as a child and I sat in my seat and colored. I remember FAs being friendly and even doing card and magic tricks. It was a great time. I don't recall mom and dad ever getting a complaint.

Quoting bond007 (Reply 8):
having paid a very high premium, only to end up next to a screaming 2 year old for the whole flight.

I keep hearing about these people paying a premium, but every single person I know who flies in F or J are either on a company paid flight, using FF miles, or upgrading due to status.

Quoting bond007 (Reply 8):
Often those who complain about their 'rights', forget about the 'rights' of all the others

You got it. They got theirs. Of course there are a lot of people who think those with more money have more "rights", but they don't. We all put our pants on the same way.

Quoting Jalap (Reply 22):
I'm sure economy pax would also be upset to end up close to a screaming 2 year old for the whole flight. And 1 kid can annoy far more people in economy than in first. But they didn't pay the premium, does that mean they don't have those 'rights'?

According to some people here, us poor slobs in Y don't matter.

Quoting Dufo (Reply 24):
I understand if you're moving to live somewhere but to take them on a visit or vacation when they're that young? Couldn't you give them to relatives for those few days?
Quoting fraspotter (Reply 28):
Children are not pets...

Growing up 1200 miles away from my grandparents (on both sides) my parents and I took many trips to visit their parents. Mom and dad weren't going to dump me off and some boarding kennel, like a dog, and their were no family members to leave me with.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 29):
I've had some lovely flights next to children, including an 18 month old on CDG-ATL a few years back who behaved like a dream the whole way.

Me too. A couple stand out too: In 2009 I flew AA ORD-FRA (on a 763) and just ahead of me was an infant, who was sleeping in a little bed attached to the bulkhead. I was thinking "oh this will suck". The infant was so quite I forgot it was even on the flight until I saw the family carrying her off the plane. The cute little child sure was getting a lot of attention from the FAs too.

In 2008 I flew NW DTW-AMS (on a 744) and I was seated next to two small Dutch children. They were very nice children and I let them plug their headphones into my DVD player and watched a couple of movies. I don't know if they even could understand the English movie, but they sure were quite. The kids also colored in their coloring books.

My mom has been a preschool teacher for any years and works very well with young children. When she travels she carries a coloring book and a big box of Crayolas. Not only does mom like to color, but she will hand them out to nearby kids if she see they have nothing to do. Nobody's parent has ever complained and they usually thank mom for keeping their kids quite. A couple of years ago Mom, Dad, and I took VIA Rail Windsor-Toronto-Montreal-Quebec and return. On one of the legs there were a couple of small children traveling with their mom were getting tired of their DVDs and started to get noisy. My mom walked over the mother and asked if anyone wanted to color. The kids were all excited and my mom took out her coloring book and crayons, and gave it to the kids. They colored for two hours. The mother thanked my mom, as did the conductor and a few other nearby passengers.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 29):
I'd rather sit next to the average child than to the average drunk.

When I was a child was seated next to a drunk on Republic (RC) LAS-DEN DC-9. The drunk puked on me, that was before we even got off the ground.

Quoting bond007 (Reply 30):
Agreed, but the drunk should never have been allowed to board

Sometimes you don't know their drunk. I am known to be a drinker and can really pound them and still look and talk good. I have passed out a few times and had the FA wake me up when I got to my destination. Of course I'm not bothering anyone, just sleeping.

Quoting georgiaame (Reply 36):
I'll take the drunk over the out of control kid any day. But that said, I'll pay a premium to avoid either

I would pay a premium to sit in a drunks only section. That would be so cool. Back when WN had 732s some of them had club seating. One trip, DTW-STL, really sticks in my mind. There were six of us, facing each other, and we were all drinking. We boozed it up the entire flight and then drank more at STL when we arrived. It was the drunk section for sure. I never had that much fun with six strangers before.
My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
 
richierich
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:51 pm

Quoting Dufo (Reply 24):
What is the point of travelling with infants anyway?
I understand if you're moving to live somewhere but to take them on a visit or vacation when they're that young? Couldn't you give them to relatives for those few days?

Seriously? That has to be one of the most naive and stupid comments I have read in quite a long time.

Quoting Dufo (Reply 24):
I have seen to many 'do not give a crap' attitude of parents who did nothing to comfort the disturbed child.

This is a different problem entirely. Unfortunately it is a fact of life, not all parents are the same and not all infants are the same. Buy some noise cancelling headsets and deal with it.
None shall pass!!!!
 
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seabosdca
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:56 pm

Quoting richierich (Reply 50):
Buy some noise cancelling headsets and deal with it.

If only it were that simple. Noise cancelling headsets, by drowning out the background noise, actually make a screaming infant sound louder.

Yes, infants scream, and there is not much that can be done about it. But trying to pretend it's not an awful experience is just dumb. Put the screaming infants in one cabin, and allow people to pay extra to sit in the other cabin. This would work especially well where the "cabins" are separate decks on an A380.
 
boeing773er
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Fri Feb 08, 2013 6:16 pm

I could really make an argument for both sides here, I feel there should be a "child-free" zone on most longhaul. I could really see the market for that on some large routes where competition is stiff. It would really give an edge for one carrier over an other, especially since this is a free or low-cost way to have that advantage.

If you don't like that carrier, then don't fly them. By buying a ticket with any carrier you are accepting their terms of service . Today there are many options to fly on. It was your choice to have children, or to bring them along. Not the person next to you.
Work Hard, Fly Right.
 
brilondon
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:45 pm

Quoting boeing773ER (Reply 49):
If you don't like that carrier, then don't fly them. By buying a ticket with any carrier you are accepting their terms of service . Today there are many options to fly on. It was your choice to have children, or to bring them along. Not the person next to you.

This is not practical as most places are have only one airline flying to a particular destination. You may have to spend 1000's of dollars to fly a different carrier. Now I am in favour of not putting children in F but like I have stated before I rarely see any children in F and most F seats are very private anyways.
Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!