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AA/US Merger Impact: Fleet

Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:30 am

Dear All,

in order to consolidate the AA/US merger threads (and after input from users, which we highly appreciate) the moderators decided to start separate threads each discussing one aspect of the AA/US merger and its impact to both the industry and the two airlines involved.

Please continue discussing this hot news in their individual official threads:

AA/US Merger Impact: Fleet (THIS THREAD ONLY)
AA/US Merger Impact: Hubs
AA/US Merger Impact: Employees
AA/US Merger Impact: HQ
AA/US Merger Impact: Livery
AA/US Merger Impact: Unions
AA/US Merger Impact: Routes
AA/US Merger Impact: Inflight Service

Enjoy & have a nice weekend!

The Airliners.net Moderator crew
Please use moderators@airliners.net to contact us.
 
BlueSky1976
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RE: AA/US Merger Impact: Fleet

Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:55 am

In my opinion, the biggest impact on the merged fleet would be retirement of US oldest airframes, as well as the cancellation of their A350XWB order.

Now that AA's 787 order is firmed up, it would make no sense whatsoever to hold onto these airplanes.
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CXfirst
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RE: AA/US Merger Impact: Fleet

Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:02 am

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 1):

In my opinion, the biggest impact on the merged fleet would be retirement of US oldest airframes, as well as the cancellation of their A350XWB order.

Now that AA's 787 order is firmed up, it would make no sense whatsoever to hold onto these airplanes.

Many airlines are ordering the 788 as well as A359/A3510, as there is some size difference. I could see some of US order being converted to more A359's, and I'd think that would work well for AA/US.

The thing that I could see stop that are the 77W's. Perhaps, AA/US will feel the A359 would be coming to soon due to the new 777's in the fleet.

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na
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RE: AA/US Merger Impact: Fleet

Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:08 am

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 1):
Now that AA's 787 order is firmed up, it would make no sense whatsoever to hold onto these airplanes.

The A350 is as much a 777 competitor as it is to the 787. Maybe they defer the order, but A350s would make good 772 replacements by the end of the decade.

What I hope for is that a merger might raise the small chance of a future VLA order, not knowing too much of the route structure, on long trunk routes that could make sense.
 
JerseyFlyer
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RE: AA/US Merger Impact: Fleet

Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:11 am

US is not in bankruptcy - so A350 cancellation would be expensive.
 
scouseflyer
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RE: AA/US Merger Impact: Fleet

Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:29 am

Quoting JerseyFlyer (Reply 4):
US is not in bankruptcy - so A350 cancellation would be expensive.

Yes it is strange that AA is to the partner that's gone bust but they seem to be making the dramatic announcements fleet, new livery etc.

As for the A350 order in particular - the firming of the 737 and A320neo orders yesterday says to me that they won't have an issue with split fleet in the future but I wonder if they will be swapped to the A350-1000 to spread the capacity upwards from the 788.

A VLA could be brilliant - just like the thought of an A380 in the new AA colours 
 
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STT757
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RE: AA/US Merger Impact: Fleet

Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:50 am

US A330s to JFK and MIA, AA 763s to PHL.
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scbriml
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RE: AA/US Merger Impact: Fleet

Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:19 pm

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 1):
it would make no sense whatsoever to hold onto these airplanes

Tell that to the ever increasing number of airlines that have purchased 787s and A350s.
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commavia
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RE: AA/US Merger Impact: Fleet

Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:31 pm

Since we're treating this as if it's already happened, my predictions on the fleet...

777: AA 772s reconfigured in previously-announced higher-density J/MCE/Y layout and find their way onto legacy-US routes such as PHL/CLT-LHR and legacy-AA routes like JFK/DFW-CDG, DFW/MIA-MAD, MIA-GIG/SCL, etc.

A330: US A330s reconfigured with MCE and deployed on legacy-AA routes such as JFK-FCO, JFK-BCN, MIA-BCN, MIA-CNF, etc.

787/A350: 787s introduced per recent AA-Boeing agreement, A350 order possibly cancelled in favor of additional A320 family jets to more rapidly replace US 737s and 757s, and AA MD80s

767: US 762 fleet parked near-immediately, and replaced with AA 763s or 757s; AA 763 retirement timeline accelerates

757: US 757 fleet parked near-immediately, and replaced by AA 757s (either domestic or international configuration, as applicable) or new narrowbody jets being delivered

A321: AA/US comingled fleets used throughout network, including increasingly to replace 757s in Hawaii and Latin America markets, and on transcons; separate AA premium JFK-LAX/SFO A321 plans continue

737/A320: US 737s parked near-immediately, and AA handles 737/A320 mix much like Delta, with 737 being configured with a larger premium cabin for use in premium domestic markets and transcons, while A320 configured with a smaller premium cabin and used for lower-yielding markets (e.g., non-MIA Florida, leisure Caribbean and Mexico, PHX/LAS/RNO, etc.)

A319: AA/US comingled fleets used throughout domestic/North America network

MD80: fleet retirement continues and accelerates

EJet/CR7: EJets will be prioritized first and foremost to more competitive markets where a better product is required (e.g., ORD and NYC, then WAS and PHL) while CR7s will be flowed into other hubs where AA is more dominant (DFW, MIA, CLT, LAX)

Dash 8: The US Express fleet of Dash 8s are quite old, and will need replacement at some point, and many of Eagle’s shorter routes out of multiple hubs (including DFW, ORD and MIA) would also be a good fit for a prop; I could see AMR/regionals placing a substantial order for Q400s or ATR72s to fill this role
 
jfk777
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RE: AA/US Merger Impact: Fleet

Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:51 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 8):
777: AA 772s reconfigured in previously-announced higher-density J/MCE/Y layout and find their way onto legacy-US routes such as PHL/CLT-LHR and legacy-AA routes like JFK/DFW-CDG, DFW/MIA-MAD, MIA-GIG/SCL, etc.

A330: US A330s reconfigured with MCE and deployed on legacy-AA routes such as JFK-FCO, JFK-BCN, MIA-BCN, MIA-CNF, etc.

787/A350: 787s introduced per recent AA-Boeing agreement, A350 order possibly cancelled in favor of additional A320 family jets to more rapidly replace US 737s and 757s, and AA MD80s

Lets not look down on the A350, it is a good airplane and many airlines will operate A350 with 777 and 787's. Since USairways management is running the new AA I doubt they will cancel their own A350 order. Some AA 777 will go to Charlotte and PHL as will some A330 go to Miami and JFK. Routes that AA has need more then 767 capacity but not quite 777 capacity. With this merger Phoenix should get some long haul international flying, can Tokyo or LHR be far away ? PHX to Sydney would be awesome, its closer then DFW and allows for connections from many cities.
 
seatback
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RE: AA/US Merger Impact: Fleet

Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:28 pm

Quoting scouseflyer (Reply 5):
Yes it is strange that AA is to the partner that's gone bust but they seem to be making the dramatic announcements fleet, new livery etc.

Yes, but my understanding is that this is a MERGER vs. a buyout/takeover. AA shareholders will get around 70% of shares in the new airline with US shareholders at around 30%.

Quoting commavia (Reply 8):
787s introduced per recent AA-Boeing agreement, A350 order possibly cancelled in favor of additional A320 family jets to more rapidly replace US 737s and 757s, and AA MD80s

I completely agree that the A350 orders will be cancelled in favor of more A319/21's. Although Airbus could use the heft of an AA order for the A350 program, at the end of the day they'll be ok with an order for more A319/21's.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: AA/US Merger Impact: Fleet

Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:35 pm

Money has already been spent on the A350 order, I don't believe they will cancel it. However, I can see the A358 being upgraded to the A359.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 9):
Lets not look down on the A350, it is a good airplane and many airlines will operate A350 with 777 and 787's.

   Just like AF with so many 777's in the fleet and another 25 787 + 25 A350 aircraft on order.
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Bobloblaw
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RE: AA/US Merger Impact: Fleet

Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:46 pm

A330s would be good in MIA with their good cargo capacity. I'd like to see A319s and E90s based in ORD to fill the gap there.
 
unityofsaints
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RE: AA/US Merger Impact: Fleet

Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:57 pm

Will this be the first "pro-Airbus" megacarrier in The States? United has Boeing fans in management now. Delta has exclusively bought Boeing since the merger. Ex-USAir management, however, likes Airbus.

Personally I think it will be cool if it works out like this. Variety is the spice of life!

[Edited 2013-02-08 05:57:54]
 
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coronado
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RE: AA/US Merger Impact: Fleet

Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:07 pm

Quoting seatback (Reply 10):

AA creditors get 70%. These are not willing shareholders Since AA is unable to pay these creditors back in full these creditors are using the b/k laws to at least get some recovery on their debts in this case percentage ownership which might eventually be worth something if they can sell their stock. Current AA shareholders get zip.
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RE: AA/US Merger Impact: Fleet

Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:48 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 8):

EJet/CR7: EJets will be prioritized first and foremost to more competitive markets where a better product is required (e.g., ORD and NYC, then WAS and PHL) while CR7s will be flowed into other hubs where AA is more dominant (DFW, MIA, CLT, LAX)

Dash 8: The US Express fleet of Dash 8s are quite old, and will need replacement at some point, and many of Eagle’s shorter routes out of multiple hubs (including DFW, ORD and MIA) would also be a good fit for a prop; I could see AMR/regionals placing a substantial order for Q400s or ATR72s to fill this role

The question of what happens with the Express/Eagle fleet is a really interesting one. The Dash 8 fleet, in particular, serves a very specific role for US, and I'm really curious to see what the future is for the regionals in this merger.
 
brilondon
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RE: AA/US Merger Impact: Fleet

Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:10 pm

The A350 will be a part of the new AA fleet. The retirement of all the 762's will be the first type to be removed and then the 763's will be replaced by the arrival of the 787's for the long haul fleet. I can see their always being a mix of A and B for their transcontinental and short haul flying.
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Ryefly
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RE: AA/US Merger Impact: Fleet

Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:19 pm

Perhaps change the A350 orders for some A380's.
 
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Stitch
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RE: AA/US Merger Impact: Fleet

Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:25 pm

I don't see the merged entity needing to cancel the A350 order, but if they do, I would expect all of the A350-800s to be changed to A350-900s and combined with the 787-9s to become A330-300 and 777-200ER replacements.
 
Piedmont727
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RE: AA/US Merger Impact: Fleet

Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:27 pm

i think there will be a good boeing and airbus mix , im personally hopeing that they become mostlly boeing buyers like delta but wethier airbus or boeing becomes the one they buy more i think it depends on managment if its manelly us i think it will go to a airbus fleet and if american i think a more boeing but still airbus fleet either way with the merger there will be one hell of a mix
 
dallasnewark
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RE: AA/US Merger Impact: Fleet

Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:08 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 9):
Lets not look down on the A350, it is a good airplane and many airlines will operate A350 with 777 and 787's. Since USairways management is running the new AA I doubt they will cancel their own A350 order. Some AA 777 will go to Charlotte and PHL as will some A330 go to Miami and JFK. Routes that AA has need more then 767 capacity but not quite 777 capacity. With this merger Phoenix should get some long haul international flying, can Tokyo or LHR be far away ? PHX to Sydney would be awesome, its closer then DFW and allows for connections from many cities.

The chance of PHX getting a SYD flight are remotely low. Phoenix does not offer the same number of connections DFW can, so what would be the point of flying into PHX if they have multiple flights to LAX. Why does anyone think that Phoenix and Charlotte would get more international service after the merger, the opposite will be true. Mergers cut flights and streamline operations, it is not the other way around
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RE: AA/US Merger Impact: Fleet

Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:15 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 8):
EJet/CR7: EJets will be prioritized first and foremost to more competitive markets where a better product is required (e.g., ORD and NYC, then WAS and PHL) while CR7s will be flowed into other hubs where AA is more dominant (DFW, MIA, CLT, LAX)

We see a lot of them at MSP too. I don't know how US competed with AA and DL into MSP (plus SY and WN, etc.) on the routes with E Jets.
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phxa340
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RE: AA/US Merger Impact: Fleet

Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:16 pm

Quoting unityofsaints (Reply 13):

Not a chance. Boeing is one of the biggest creditors needed to approve this merger on the AA side. The days of US only ordering Airbus are long gone. Will they stay a massive Airbus customer - more than likely but it's a win win for both manufacturers.
 
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RE: AA/US Merger Impact: Fleet

Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:37 pm

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 15):
The question of what happens with the Express/Eagle fleet is a really interesting one. The Dash 8 fleet, in particular, serves a very specific role for US, and I'm really curious to see what the future is for the regionals in this merger.

it is possible this merger will be bad news for the smaller cities in SC and NC and VA. They could lose all service if the props go away.
 
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RE: AA/US Merger Impact: Fleet

Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:38 pm

AA still has 58 787 optiosn which I can see the combined company exercising for a mix of 787-9 and 787-10s. Those airplanes can replace all the 767s, A330s, and 777-200s and they go to one fleet type on those airplanes.
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unityofsaints
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RE: AA/US Merger Impact: Fleet

Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:47 pm

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 22):
Boeing is one of the biggest creditors

Airbus isn't a creditor? A 130-plane order says otherwise.
 
na
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RE: AA/US Merger Impact: Fleet

Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:55 pm

One thing I expect from a merger is the accelerated retirement of US´ old 737-400 fleet.
I could also think of AA changing the A350 order to some A380s. After a merger they should be able to fill VLAs.
 
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RE: AA/US Merger Impact: Fleet

Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:58 pm

Quoting unityofsaints (Reply 25):
Airbus isn't a creditor? A 130-plane order says otherwise.

The order wasn't finalized until recently, and even then, Boeing is still a much larger creditor if you consider all the 737s, 777s and 787s that American has ordered.
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RE: AA/US Merger Impact: Fleet

Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:58 pm

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 1):
...retirement of US oldest airframes, as well as the cancellation of their A350XWB order.

Now that AA's 787 order is firmed up, it would make no sense whatsoever to hold onto these airplanes.

they would have to wait until the 787 itself is firmed up before taking any such action
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seabosdca
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RE: AA/US Merger Impact: Fleet

Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:02 pm

The A350 and 787 orders just don't fit particularly well together. I would agree that the most logical outcome would be to convert the A350 order into additional A32S orders, possibly deferred well into the future and intended to be replacements for the early US A320s and the first batch of AA 738s.
 
KaiTak747
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RE: AA/US Merger Impact: Fleet

Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:16 pm

Quoting unityofsaints (Reply 13):

Will this be the first "pro-Airbus" megacarrier in The States? United has Boeing fans in management now. Delta has exclusively bought Boeing since the merger. Ex-USAir management, however, likes Airbus.

Personally I think it will be cool if it works out like this. Variety is the spice of life!

The management do not have a bias towards either Airbus or Boeing. Decisions on orders will be based on cost, availability, finance, fuel burn, capacity...etc.

Both manufacturers will be weighed up before any decision is made. If AA and US do merge, the single largest airline in the world will be created (something like over 1000 aircraft) and therefore will have no choice (and would be nuts anyway) to stick with one manufacture.

Also, bare in mind that fleet commonality is only really a serious benefit with smaller airlines without multiple hubs.
 
boeing773er
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RE: AA/US Merger Impact: Fleet

Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:19 pm

Quoting unityofsaints (Reply 25):

Well in the new company Airbus will still be part of the creditors but will not be as large as Boeing. Airbus helped out US when they were going through bankruptcy so they got some share. At the most they will be about 8-9% of the company ( I figured they could only own 25% at the most of US stock, but probably less then that, then they would only have 30% of that much stock in the new AA)

I don't see US/AA canceling their A350's, they can use them in the future. Eventually the 77W will get older, and they will need a program to replace them with. The A350 program will hopefully be that one.

I can see it going like this: the A350 and the 777 will work together at AA
The 77W's would go on trunk routes out of DFW/MIA while the A350 would work out of PHL/JFK/CLT. To offer a more premium cabin, people are attracted to a new aircraft (look at the 787, when it was flying...)

Hopefully the new airline will be smart enough to make their A350's into A359 or even the A351.
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phxa340
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RE: AA/US Merger Impact: Fleet

Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:41 pm

Quoting unityofsaints (Reply 25):

Wrong. AA hasn't taken any deliveries from Airbus so technically their only liabilities would be the cancellation payments - if there are even any.

But your right in the sense that later in this year Airbus will be a big time creditor of the combined mega company.
 
Gingersnap
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RE: AA/US Merger Impact: Fleet

Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:56 pm

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 29):
The A350 and 787 orders just don't fit particularly well together

Tell that to the airlines that have ordered both.
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777STL
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RE: AA/US Merger Impact: Fleet

Fri Feb 08, 2013 6:06 pm

Quoting dallasnewark (Reply 20):
The chance of PHX getting a SYD flight are remotely low. Phoenix does not offer the same number of connections DFW can, so what would be the point of flying into PHX if they have multiple flights to LAX. Why does anyone think that Phoenix and Charlotte would get more international service after the merger, the opposite will be true. Mergers cut flights and streamline operations, it is not the other way around

Or LAX which is only half an hour away by air from PHX. I completely agree though, if anything, PHX is going to contract with LAX being as close as it is and DFW being not too far away either. I don't see an increase in international service, let alone a near ULH route like SYD.
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EricAY05
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RE: AA/US Merger Impact: Fleet

Fri Feb 08, 2013 6:15 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 8):

Wouldn't the 767-200ER's of US (delivered in 1997) be a perfect replacement for AA's old 767-200ER? This way the airline could continue serving JFK-LAX with a widebody (as the only airline doing so?). I would imagine that this would give them an advantage over the narrow-body users.
 
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RE: AA/US Merger Impact: Fleet

Fri Feb 08, 2013 6:21 pm

The 737-400's will be quickly retired as soon as the ink is dry. No point in keeping them around any longer. As for the rest of the types I will handle it type by type.

E190 - I don't remember how big the F100 fleet became before it was retired, but the E190 can serve a role similar to what the F100 did. The only issue is they don't have a lot of the type, and with all the A320-737 family planes on order, would they be willing to take on a few more 190s?

737NG - I would still expect this fleet to be the backbone of the MIA hub given the type of flying handled from there. You will probably see a lot of these in DFW and LAX as well.

A320 family - This is going to become the backbone of the domestic transcon fleet. I suspect that the A321 will be used on a lot of transcons out of LAX to places like BOS, JFK, and DCA (Assuming they can get an LAX slot for DCA) You will see the A319s in ORD in large numbers, and of course they will continue to be the backbone of PHL and CLT.

757 - You would think this would be close to retirement but there are still a lot of routes where this plane is appropriate. (Hawaii and parts of latin america come to mind) I expect this plane to be phased out domestically as more A321's come online, and then to keep a few for ETOPS until they can find an adequate replacement.

767 - The US 200s will be retired quickly. The 300's will remain until enough 787's come on line. I suspect though that some of the JFK planes will be shifted to PHL temporarily for A330's.

A330 - These planes are fairly new in the US fleet and I don't see them going anywhere. I do see them being shifted around though, and I have a feeling these planes are going to end up in JFK long term.

777 - Most of the routes AA currently uses this on are routes where this is the only plane capable, so I don't see much there. One question though is now that PHL is open, can there be a launch of PHL-NRT service?

787 - Eventually, the PHL hub is going to be rightsized into this airplane for the most part. But there are plenty of options from all hubs here. Could AA try LAX-SYD with this plane and supplement QF with one world? I also look for some new Asia routes to be launched from both LAX and ORD.

A350 - This is the one that is the most unclear. Will they or won't they take delivery? I don't see a conversion to A320 series aircraft because that would give them more narrowbodies then they know what to do with, unless they want to reduce dependence on regional lift (one can only hope), If they take delivery, with the existing planes, they can build quite an international network.

Time will tell.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: AA/US Merger Impact: Fleet

Fri Feb 08, 2013 6:26 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 18):
I would expect all of the A350-800s to be changed to A350-900s and combined with the 787-9s to become A330-300 and 777-200ER replacements.

  

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 29):
The A350 and 787 orders just don't fit particularly well together.

Other airlines have ordered both. Just look at Air France, with orders for 25 787 and A350 aircraft.

I however don't see both 787-9 and A350-800 working together, but the A350-900 will fit perfectly in between the 787 and the 777.

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 24):
AA still has 58 787 optiosn which I can see the combined company exercising for a mix of 787-9 and 787-10s. Those airplanes can replace all the 767s, A330s, and 777-200s and they go to one fleet type on those airplanes.

Based on the information available today the 787-10 will not be a real replacement for the 777-200. It will be more a truly A330-300 replacer, so the A350-900 sounds like the logical outcome to replace the 777-200.

[Edited 2013-02-08 10:37:27]
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crAAzy
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RE: AA/US Merger Impact: Fleet

Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:15 pm

A350s will be converted to A380s within the next 2 years with delivery set for 2017. You heard it hear first.   
 
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scbriml
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RE: AA/US Merger Impact: Fleet

Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:21 pm

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 29):
The A350 and 787 orders just don't fit particularly well together.

So Aeroflot, Air China, Air France, Avianca, Ethiopian, Etihad, Qatar Airways, Singapore Airlines and Vietnam Airlines have all got it wrong?   
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hOMSaR
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RE: AA/US Merger Impact: Fleet

Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:34 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 39):

So Aeroflot, Air China, Air France, Avianca, Ethiopian, Etihad, Qatar Airways, Singapore Airlines and Vietnam Airlines have all got it wrong?

Don't forget United. While the 787s they have right now are from the original CO order, UA did have 787s and A350s of their own on order, and, IIRC, they ordered both at the same time.
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RE: AA/US Merger Impact: Fleet

Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:45 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 39):
So Aeroflot, Air China, Air France, Avianca, Ethiopian, Etihad, Qatar Airways, Singapore Airlines and Vietnam Airlines have all got it wrong?
Quoting seabosdca (Reply 29):
The A350 and 787 orders just don't fit particularly well together.

There are so many variables that come into play here you can't just say one person is right or wrong. It depends on aircraft type (there are soon to be 3 versions of each offered) and on aircraft configuration (F? J? W? Y?).

For example:

AA is now taking delivery of it's 77W in 4 class configuration (8F, 52J, 20W, 220Y) seating 310 and will be converting all their 772s to the new J, W, and Y - exact numbers for configuration unknown but in current 3 class (F,J,Y) seats 247.

US will be taking delivery of 18 A350-800s in 2 class configuration (36J, 234Y) seating 270 and 4 A350-900s in 2 class configuration (36J, 294Y) seating 330.

A combined US/AA now have to decide how they want to configure the A350s on order. I hope it's safe to say that MCE will be added across both fleets. So if the new carrier might decided that for the A350-800 to add an extra row or two of J and add a W cabin brining the configuration more in line with the 772. Voila!! You now have a wonderful replacement aircraft for your aging 772 fleet.

However, you do the same work over with the A350-900 it probably becomes too large for you missions with just J,W,Y and if you add F, J, W, Y to the A350-900 it will closely resemble your new 77Ws making the A350-900 unnecessary.

Most are in agreement that the 787s will be replacing the 767s so I don't think the 787 order will play any role in the A350 decision.

My guess is the A350 order will stay but be converted to all A350-800s with more added to replace the aging 772s or someone in the new AA/US will get overly ambitious combined with an enticing offer from Airbus and we'll see an A380 order in a few years.
 
jporterfi
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RE: AA/US Merger Impact: Fleet

Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:47 pm

Quoting scouseflyer (Reply 5):
A VLA could be brilliant - just like the thought of an A380 in the new AA colours 

Oh god, so repulsing. I think the new livery would look better on a 748. But honestly, I can't see AA ordering either one of those. 77Ws seem like a better fit for their overall route network.

Quoting commavia (Reply 8):
I could see AMR/regionals placing a substantial order for Q400s or ATR72s to fill this role

Isn't AA terminated much of the ATR-72 flying as it' s shutting down its SJU hub and terminating its contract with Executive? I think a Q400 order is much more likely. Aren't they more fuel efficient than the ATRs? Having flown on both, I greatly prefer the Q400.

Quoting dallasnewark (Reply 20):
The chance of PHX getting a SYD flight are remotely low. Phoenix does not offer the same number of connections DFW can, so what would be the point of flying into PHX if they have multiple flights to LAX.

   The general opinion is that PHX will be streamlined, and lose much of its service. With fewer connections, PHX-SYD does not make much sense. QF (or AA, if they decide to start service to SYD) would be better off adding a frequency to DFW or LAX.
 
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seabosdca
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RE: AA/US Merger Impact: Fleet

Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:55 pm

Quoting crAAzy (Reply 41):
Most are in agreement that the 787s will be replacing the 767s so I don't think the 787 order will play any role in the A350 decision.

Not totally true. AA has orders or options for 100 787s, which would come close to replacing both the 763 and 772 fleets. Furthermore, the 787-9 is much closer to the size of a 772 than the size of a 763. I think AA was planning eventually to replace their 772 fleet with the 787-9, not just their 763 fleet.

The A350-800 is a bit of a redheaded stepchild. The A350-900 is just a better-conceived aircraft. If the merger goes through I feel absolutely confident that any A350s actually delivered to the merged airline will be either A350-900s or A350-1000s. The trouble is that the A350-900s are only a bit bigger than 787-9s, and the A350-1000s would be playing in the same sandbox as the airline's brand-new 777-300ERs.
 
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Stitch
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RE: AA/US Merger Impact: Fleet

Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:12 pm

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 43):
Furthermore, the 787-9 is much closer to the size of a 772 than the size of a 763.

The 787-9 is identical in cabin length to the 777-200 so AA would be able to fit the same number of rows of their new product in the 787-9 as they will in the 777-200ER.
 
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AVLAirlineFreq
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RE: AA/US Merger Impact: Fleet

Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:14 pm

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 23):

it is possible this merger will be bad news for the smaller cities in SC and NC and VA. They could lose all service if the props go away.

There are a few markets that are served daily only by US, mostly in the southeast: FLO, LYH, PGV, HHH, SBY (which is Piedmont's base for the Dash), HTS (which also has G4), HVN, and IPT. Did I miss anyone?

Some of those may be too small to support even reduced frequency service on a 70-seater prop.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: AA/US Merger Impact: Fleet

Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:22 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 44):
The 787-9 is identical in cabin length to the 777-200 so AA would be able to fit the same number of rows of their new product in the 787-9 as they will in the 777-200ER.

I'm not following here, Boeing lists 314 seats for the 777-200ER and 290 for the 787-9, both in a 3-class configuration. A difference of 24 seats or ~ 3 rows.

[Edited 2013-02-08 12:25:15]
Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK
 
JAAlbert
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RE: AA/US Merger Impact: Fleet

Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:54 pm

Quoting crAAzy (Reply 41):
or someone in the new AA/US will get overly ambitious combined with an enticing offer from Airbus and we'll see an A380 order in a few years.

Come on now, on what routes would AA fly a 380? I think AA's model, as well as most other US airlines, is frequency over capacity. Maybe, maybe AA could get away with 380s flying between JFK - LHR, but where else? Sao Paulo? I think AA will have to dramatically change its business practices and become extremely aggressive if it wants to grab enough market share to fill the 380 on a regular basis.
 
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hOMSaR
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RE: AA/US Merger Impact: Fleet

Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:59 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 46):
Quoting Stitch (Reply 44):
The 787-9 is identical in cabin length to the 777-200 so AA would be able to fit the same number of rows of their new product in the 787-9 as they will in the 777-200ER.

I'm not following here, Boeing lists 314 seats for the 777-200ER and 290 for the 787-9, both in a 3-class configuration. A difference of 24 seats or ~ 3 rows.

The 787 is narrower than the 777. You can't do 10-across in a 787, but you could in a 777. Same number of rows still gives you more seats in a 777.
The plural of Airbus is Airbuses. Airbii is not a word, and doesn't even make sense.
There is no 787-800, nor 787-900 or 747-800. It's 787-8, 787-9, and 747-8.
A321neoLR is also unnecessary. It's simply A321LR.
 
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seabosdca
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RE: AA/US Merger Impact: Fleet

Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:07 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 44):
The 787-9 is identical in cabin length to the 777-200 so AA would be able to fit the same number of rows of their new product in the 787-9 as they will in the 777-200ER.

Since the new 777 product is 10Y, that will still leave the 787-9 with a slight capacity deficit to the 777 in Y. If that won't work, perhaps some of those options will be exercised as 787-10s, or perhaps the combined airline will keep the A350 order and convert it to A350-900s.