Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 50): Yes, but we're talking about American Airlines. The airline that carries the "official" name of the country shouldn't butcher the flag if they have it on their planes.

The "official" name of the country is the United States of America. US Airways is just as close to the official name as American.

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 50): Plus, I can except if they did something like US Airways did, but at least US Airways kept it uniform.

What is that even suppose to mean?

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 48): The new branding is directly tied to the fact that the AIRBUS airplanes are not built with Matched ALCLAD aluminum skins which makes the current polished American airlines livery impossible.

Reminds me of AA's BAC-111s which had a section of fuselage skin over the wings that must have used a different alloy and even when polished never matched the rest of the fuselage. It's very obvious in most photos.

View Large View Medium Photo © Bob Garrard

View Large View Medium Photo © Bob Garrard

View Large View Medium Photo © Bob Garrard

View Large View Medium Photo © Alain Picollet

Quoting iFlyLOTs (Reply 24): No stars... And less stripes

The new AA tail only has 6 red stripes, whereas the actual flag has 7. This, to me, is even worse, because it's like they forgot to add the last stripe (and it even looks like there's plenty of room to add it!) Is there some obscure law or code that prohibits companies from using the complete, 50 start/13 stripe version of the US flag in a logo or branding like this?

Quoting captainstefan (Reply 53): The new AA tail only has 6 red stripes, whereas the actual flag has 7. This, to me, is even worse, because it's like they forgot to add the last stripe (and it even looks like there's plenty of room to add it!)

I somewhat agree, but as mesaflyguy was trying to point out, and I was disputing was that US Airways has actually been "defacing" the American flag for quite some time now. And if you look closely, at least on the 737 that they painted already it almost looks like they thought about it, and then painted it over and looks discolored.

Quoting Polot (Reply 51):

I should have worded that differently, by uniform, I meant that US Airways kept it looking like the flag, amd they kept it simple. The AA tail has too many color variations and overall just too much going on in it. Yes, US did change some details of the flag, but they left it recognizable. The AA tail IMHO looks like a livery created for a virtual airline on one of the ameteur design programs. The tail, again just IMHO, reminds me more if a creative logo with the colors of the American flag. It just doesn't do the flag the right justice.

Once again, this is all solely my opinion. You do not have to agree with me and I am not trying to force you to.

[Edited 2013-02-08 18:41:08]

The AA new livery will hold and quickly be put on the US aircraft, and rightly so. If they're going to be 70% of the company, then so be it. Let's hope they quickly create a consistent brand and that the customer service for both entities quickly escalates...with AA returning to caring about customers and their staff!

i saw a interesting comment on a different post that got me thinking has the merger been in a secret planning well at-least starting with the livery for the merger i mean i heard Horton say in a video if thy merge the new AA livery would stay and if u look at the tail the stripes design are actually similar in style if u exclude the blue on the american , if im far off sorry just something i noticed Also buy US stripes i mean the faded stripes in there

us airways tail by me

aa new livery please dont steal

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 55): US Airways kept it looking like the flag, amd they kept it simple. The AA tail has too many color variations and overall just too much going on in it. Yes, US did change some details of the flag, but they left it recognizable. The AA tail IMHO looks like a livery created for a virtual airline on one of the ameteur design programs. The tail, again just IMHO, reminds me more if a creative logo with the colors of the American flag. It just doesn't do the flag the right justice.

I agree. The AA tail is too busy. Something bold, sure. But this just doesnt do the trick. IMO.

JD CRP

Quoting ckfred (Reply 32): Worse than Hughes Air West? That livery was solid lemon yellow with purple trim. The font was garish late 60s/early 70s. When the planes were dirty, they were even uglier.

Don't go talkin' smack about the top banana in the west!

-Dave

Quoting A388 (Reply 10): The new AA tail logo in fact does have something of US Airways in it so the new livery definately is designed with the merger in mind.

  

Agreed. Like it or not, that's one of the first things that came to mind when I saw that tail.

Quoting piedmont727 (Reply 57): i saw a interesting comment on a different post that got me thinking has the merger been in a secret planning well at-least starting with the livery for the merger i mean i heard Horton say in a video if thy merge the new AA livery would stay and if u look at the tail the stripes design are actually similar in style if u exclude the blue on the american , if im far off sorry just something i noticed Also buy US stripes i mean the faded stripes in there

Actualy the stripes come from their heritqge from America West

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Ameri...d=c22dd6dcc2d38e8c03591a9734f3d9c0

As you can see the shadowing, done to the lines; what US did was smooth them out.

I think that if you remember when AC tried to see if their was a way of saving money by only polishing their aircraft with the new tail was as ugly an aircraft can get, IMO.

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 55): The AA tail has too many color variations and overall just too much going on in it. Yes, US did change some details of the flag, but they left it recognizable. The AA tail IMHO looks like a livery created for a virtual airline on one of the ameteur design programs. The tail, again just IMHO, reminds me more if a creative logo with the colors of the American flag. It just doesn't do the flag the right justice.

The AA tail looks to me like a Powerpoint background from the 90s, with the different shades of blue that blend from one to the other (and same with the red).

The new branding is brilliant in my opinion. And it most definitely is staying so settle down and get used to it people.

So.. This may be a bit off topic. And I know I have been under a rock.. But do we actually have merger confirmation with US/AA?

The new American livery is great. I love the tail. Love the font. US Airways is too corporate looking, too bland, much like the grey United. AA did a great job conceiving this livery. We should applaud them.

Quoting flyorski (Reply 64): So.. This may be a bit off topic. And I know I have been under a rock.. But do we actually have merger confirmation with US/AA?

Officially, no. But news reports say that it is getting closer and closer to a reality.

Quoting brilondon (Reply 61): I think that if you remember when AC tried to see if their was a way of saving money by only polishing their aircraft with the new tail was as ugly an aircraft can get, IMO.

The first time I saw it, I thought "when are they going to finish painting it?" Thank god it only got applied to one 767. At least they could polish the aluminum - can you imagine how it would have looked on an Airbus?
 

I do not know about the merger, but I like the new design. One cannot miss it from any distance. It is noticed, and is that not the idea?

Hey Doug Parker... congratulations!... now, PLEASE change the tail !!

So I'm hoping I'll see the PSA A319 in SAN and the Air Cal A319 in SNA.

If only....

Quoting cageyjames (Reply 70): So I'm hoping I'll see the PSA A319 in SAN and the Air Cal A319 in SNA. If only....

Wow ... that would be great! I take it there isn't an AirCal A319 at the moment, but you're hoping there will be?

Quoting AirCalSNA (Reply 71): I take it there isn't an AirCal A319 at the moment, but you're hoping there will be?

Exactly.

Maybe we'll even have a RenoAir A319, and a TransCaribbean A321, that would be cool IMO.

Well, the US livery with American titles certainly looks better than the American livery by itself. It's a shame that's not what's going to be kept.

But my main concern is for the retrojets. It's really nice have Piedmont and PSA planes flying around, and I sincerely doubt they'll be kept by the combined carrier. I hope I am wrong though. I hope Doug will allow them to continue to exist, alongside any AA retrojets that might be kept. Perhaps a petition could be in order?

AA should have waited for the livery re-do and done something like this as their AA+US livery.

Unfortunately its just been announced they are KEEPING the new livery.

Although these days airline CEOs say they are keeping a lot (aircraft orders, hubs, routes, etc) and never do, so perhaps to Parker its just a minor deet in the whole scale of things that he doesn't want to deal with today and its easier to just say that to the press then get news going on a rebranding aspect instead.

Quoting deltaflyertoo (Reply 75): Although these days airline CEOs say they are keeping a lot (aircraft orders, hubs, routes, etc) and never do, so perhaps to Parker its just a minor deet in the whole scale of things that he doesn't want to deal with today and its easier to just say that to the press then get news going on a rebranding aspect instead.

Or you know, they are going to keep it. CEOs say they are going to keep aircraft orders, hubs, routes, etc for political support from the communities and to show they are going to keep jobs (remember AA/US still has to be approved by the government). There is no value in announcing you are keeping the branding now they changing your mind a year later because you secretly always hated it and wanted to change it. If Parker hated it it would be changed before public announcement of the merger so that a uniformed new brand could be presented and AA and US could start to convert towards it over the course of the next few months.

Quoting Aloha717200 (Reply 73): I hope I am wrong though. I hope Doug will allow them to continue to exist, alongside any AA retrojets that might be kept. Perhaps a petition could be in order?

I could see these retrojets:

PMUS
-US current livery with American fuselage titles (we may be seeing a lot of these for a short while, but this would be a permanent addition to the fleet)
-US 1989 livery with American fuselage titles (mica paint instead of polished aluminum like on original)
-Allegheny with American fuselage titles
-Piedmont with American fuselage titles
-HP original livery with American fuselage titles
-HP "Jurassic Park" livery with American fuselage titles
-PSA with American fuselage titles

PMAA
-1964-68 Astrojet livery (already in fleet)
-1968-2013 Massimo Vignelli livery (preferably on a plane that can be polished, though mica paint would also work)
-TWA 1960s double-globe with American fuselage titles
-TWA final livery with American fuselage titles
-Trans Caribbean with American fuselage titles
-AirCal rainbow with American fuselage titles
-Reno Air with American fuselage titles

Total of 7 heritage liveries each for US and AA; 14 total

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 77): -TWA 1960s double-globe with American fuselage titles -TWA final livery with American fuselage titles

As I have mentioned in other threads, I would be surprised to see any TWA retrojets anytime soon considering how their employees got screwed (not completely AA's fault, the unions share a lot of the blame, but still).

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 77): -Trans Caribbean with American fuselage titles

Trans Caribbean was such a small carrier absorbed so long ago I doubt we would see a retrojet for them (you never saw Doug Parker trot out a Mohawk retrojet).

Quoting Polot (Reply 78): Trans Caribbean was such a small carrier absorbed so long ago I doubt we would see a retrojet for them (you never saw Doug Parker trot out a Mohawk retrojet).

True, but that single small purchase was the start of AA's dominance in the Caribbean.

Quoting Polot (Reply 78): As I have mentioned in other threads, I would be surprised to see any TWA retrojets anytime soon considering how their employees got screwed (not completely AA's fault, the unions share a lot of the blame, but still).

Every now and then, you'll run into TWA licensed merchandise like T-shirts and coffee mugs at places like Target. The licensor for these TWA logo items is none other than AMR, and many of these items also have (had?) the AA with scissor eagle design in the copyright area (i.e. T-shirt tag).

[Edited 2013-02-14 16:22:29]

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 77): -TWA 1960s double-globe with American fuselage titles -TWA final livery with American fuselage titles

I really would like to see this happen. I know plenty of ex-TWA employees at AA would like to see this as well.

Quoting Polot (Reply 77): As I have mentioned in other threads, I would be surprised to see any TWA retrojets anytime soon considering how their employees got screwed (not completely AA's fault, the unions share a lot of the blame, but still).

I think when US released the retrojets for old USAir airlines, it did a lot for morale. Even if there are wounds, the fact TW is part of the AA "family" is a huge legacy. I'm not sure we'll see Reno Air or other type livery, but TWA would clearly be added. AirCal might be added if just to show the commitment to LAX region. I'm not sure that is needed with the others.

Quoting atcanobbio (Reply 73): AA should have waited for the livery re-do and done something like this as their AA+US livery.

OMG!! That is ugly. What are you working in the US post office?

I think there is still time to change the livery for the merged entity... AND... I think this one by Anthony Harding is the best. I wonder how much they would have to pay him for it.

Quoting brilondon (Reply 81):

Why? that livery is spot on for a merged look.

Quoting atcanobbio (Reply 73):

Nice.. I would have loved these  

But, I have t admit that even though the tail is not my favorite by far, it has been growing up on me...

By the way, have you guys seen this video? http://youtu.be/nJPTtIOAls4

New livery may not last long .
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...rways-livery-to-be-decided-382391/

Quoting etops1 (Reply 85): New livery may not last long .

Good! The more I see that tail, the dumber it looks.

Nice quote: "Henry Harteveldt, a travel industry analyst at Hudson Crossing, said on Twitter that it looks like 'the spawn of a three-way between a regional airline, a 1970s charter airline, and a third-world airline' while others said that they liked the look."

Quoting Polot (Reply 13): With all the conflict with TWA employees AA has had in its past I would not expect to see a TWA retrojet anytime soon.

i hope its there last one in my opinion i think that was the best or the double red line one

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 86): Good! The more I see that tail, the dumber it looks. Nice quote: "Henry Harteveldt, a travel industry analyst at Hudson Crossing, said on Twitter that it looks like 'the spawn of a three-way between a regional airline, a 1970s charter airline, and a third-world airline' while others said that they liked the look."

But also note the following:

"At US Airways Parker has been known as a cost-conscious executive, not spending, for example, on advertising because the return did not justify the expense, and is unlikely to take on any additional costs that do not have an evident revenue benefit at the merged carrier."

I think the livery stays because it is the cheapest option.

Quoting questions (Reply 82): I think there is still time to change the livery for the merged entity... AND... I think this one by Anthony Harding is the best. I wonder how much they would have to pay him for it.

This one is absolutely awful.

Just saw a youtube video i think the new livery is the new livery

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68xF-j9h6us

Quoting blueman87 (Reply 89): Just saw a youtube video i think the new livery is the new livery http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68xF-j9h6us

Seems like they took heavy cues from the Atlanta Anthem ad that Delta had around the time of the NW merger. Its as if they had the same storyboard almost.

http://youtu.be/ZCvE6YbVGzA


EDIT: I just watched the two ads at the same time and muted the new American ad while playing the Delta audio. The Delta audio lines up almost perfectly with the scenes from the AA video. Try it and see, its pretty interesting to watch!

[Edited 2013-02-16 19:35:12]

Quoting DCA2011 (Reply 90): Seems like they took heavy cues from the Atlanta Anthem ad that Delta had around the time of the NW merger. Its as if they had the same storyboard almost.

That is from when they rebranded, about a year before the NW merger. But yeah, when I first saw the AA video I was reminded about the beginning of this one (although after the opening imagery they move in completely different directions).

Quoting AngMoh (Reply 88): But also note the following: "At US Airways Parker has been known as a cost-conscious executive, not spending, for example, on advertising because the return did not justify the expense, and is unlikely to take on any additional costs that do not have an evident revenue benefit at the merged carrier." I think the livery stays because it is the cheapest option.

It may be cheaper to keep the current US livery and slap the American Airlines title on it. They may save money by having to repaint just the AA planes.

I cannot get used to the new American tail. Besides looking like a product of a design team of 8-year-old kids, the jarring combination of patterns and shades of colours makes me physically ill. albeit mildly.

i think it would be a cool idea for the new AA (when its finally merged) to have special Liveries for each state,You know being American and all.

How about a special livery called Greed -- on one side all the dollars pilfered from employees; on the other side all the money paid out in executive compensation

[Edited 2013-02-16 21:42:08]

Quoting AngMoh (Reply 88): This one is absolutely awful.

I agree.

Quoting etops1 (Reply 85): New livery may not last long .

Wishful thinking by an obviously biased writer who, at the end of his post, specifically quotes one more or less random guy on twitter who hates the look (though identified with the important-sounding "industry analyst" tag), then dismissively adds "while others said that they liked the look" without a quote.

The important part that it sounds like you didn't read is this:

At US Airways Parker has been known as a cost-conscious executive, not spending, for example, on advertising because the return did not justify the expense, and is unlikely to take on any additional costs that do not have an evident revenue benefit at the merged carrier.

There will be no redesign of the livery. This is the livery, and it is time for people to get used to it, whether you like it or not. You don't have to like it, but rehashing the same criticisms over and over as if your opinion on the subject is going to change anything is just not going to help anyone or anything.

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 96):

  

I really doubt this livery is gonna change. I guess all the people who hate it here just cant accept change...

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 97): I really doubt this livery is gonna change. I guess all the people who hate it here just cant accept change.

I can accept change. I cannot accept bad decisions. If Parker wants to succeed, he is going to have to clean house at AMR corporate HQ and bring in a lot of new blood.

Quoting AAplat4life (Reply 98): I can accept change. I cannot accept bad decisions.

Funny how every change somebody disagrees with is a "bad decision" or a "step in the wrong direction".
Personally, I dislike the new Germanwings livery, because it's the blandest possible re-hash of the brand that you could imagine. I still wouldn't go so far as calling it a "bad decision", because I don't think it is going to have a material impact on operating economics.
Contrary to what who dislike it want to make it appear, the fact that there are people - here as well as (or even particularly) outside aviation enthusiast circles - that do seem to like the new livery suggests that AA's new livery is not unanimously seen as a "bad decision".
May I remind people how much dislike the previous livery got when it was first introduced because it was so crass compared to other liveries of the day. And see how long that one lasted. I'm not necessarily saying that the new AA look is also going to be around for 40+ years, but pointing out that judging the longevity of a livery (which eventually doesn't really influence operating economics) by first responses from a very small circle of people with a level of interest in aviation that the general (travelling) public doesn't share may not give you a very accurate picture.

Also, consider that even in the video introducing the new livery and general corporate identity, Horton mentioned ongoing merger talks. So I'd be pretty sure that the new CI and livery weren't introduced without a minimum level of coordination with US Airways' management.

Furthermore, if Parker is indeed such a shrewd businessman, he'll take into account the money that was already spent on the livery/CI and its introduction in the media and ads. And as he'll agree that going forward AA needs a new identity anyway, he won't see much reason for spending similar amounts again on re-doing the same job again. Which would include another repainting of all AA jets that undergo repainting between now and Q3 (when the merger is expected to be finalised), plus a repaint of all new 737s, 777s and A319s that will be delivered in the same timeframe. In any case, the best they could do would be going from one livery that some people don't like to another livery that roughly the same amount of people (although not necessarily the exact same people) will dislike.
So overall, I expect the post-merger AA livery to be very much the same as the newly introduced AA livery, maybe plus some very minor details that can be taken care of by the use of decals. I could for instance see them going with a representation of all the airline predecessors to the merged AA somewhere on the fuselage, like US already does:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tilthouse/2302903959/
For AA, that could be AL, PS, Piedmont, US, HP, TW, QQ and OC.
(Now, how to fit all of them into a discrete display is another matter   )

Quoting AAplat4life (Reply 98): If Parker wants to succeed, he is going to have to clean house at AMR corporate HQ and bring in a lot of new blood.

Sounds like a good idea, but the livery has nothing to do with that.

[Edited 2013-02-17 08:46:52]