factsonly
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Ryanair Says EI Deal Blocked By EU

Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:20 pm

Reuters reporting that Ryanair has stated the EU will block its take-over of Aer Lingus.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...ir-aerlingus-idUSBRE91B0RK20130212
 
kaitak
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Ryanair Says EI Deal Blocked By EU

Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:22 pm

A very welcome development, but FR has said it will appeal. (It's always appealing, but only in a legal sense).

The decision to appeal is probably doomed from the start (it's hard to know on what grounds this will be - or on what grounds FR thinks it can appeal - since the full ruling of the Competition Commissioner's office has not been issued), but it adds more uncertainty to EI's position.

The next big milestone on the horizon will be the British OFT's ruling on FR's stake in EI; it would be a major blow to FR if the OFT were to rule against it.

Of course, FR is bleating that it met all of the concerns raised by the Competition office, but really ... Flybe? An airline that is having enough problems of its own, keeping its head above water? And still the fundamental issue ... FR controlling access to Irish airports and all of the ramifications of that - effectively holding the state to ransom. It just doesn't bear thinking about.
 
PlymSpotter
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Ryanair Says EI Deal Blocked By EU

Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:48 pm

Thank God for that, it would have been a disaster for Ireland. Unless they bring highly compelling new evidence to the appeal, which I can't see them being able to do, it is futile. My next question, what will FR ultimately do with their shareholding - keep to try again in a few years or sell?


Dan  
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JU068
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Ryanair Says EI Deal Blocked By EU

Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:05 pm

I do not see why Ryanair is complaining so much... why should the European Union or the Irish government approve the sale when Aer Lingus managed to reorganize itself and report profits. There are simply no good arguments for the approval which would lead to the loss of competitiveness within the Irish aviation market.
It would make sense for them to change their mind when it comes to Greece as both Olympic and Aegean are loss making carriers. This is obviously not the case in Ireland.
 
EIDL
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Ryanair Says EI Deal Blocked By EU

Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:10 pm

I'm hopeful that the OFT ruling comes quickly and comes positively now - even having FR as a shareholder of that scale is a major problem for EI.

Stock price is still significantly higher than when the bidding process began (1.28 at the moment), should MOL think this is a time to crystallize their massive loss on this gamble and sell out.
 
RussianJet
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Ryanair Says EI Deal Blocked By EU

Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:14 pm

No real surprise to be honest, though I suppose some silly decisions do get made now and again, so mild relief I guess.
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JU068
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Ryanair Says EI Deal Blocked By EU

Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:51 pm

Could it also have something to do with the European Union and the Irish government protecting DUB? Ryanair is famous for completely withdrawing from a market if it doesn't get what it wants. Naturally I know that they would not withdraw fully but they surely could blackmail them and demand considerable reduction in fees.
 
PlymSpotter
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Ryanair Says EI Deal Blocked By EU

Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:54 pm

Quoting ju068 (Reply 11):

Could it also have something to do with the European Union and the Irish government protecting DUB?

Perhaps not DUB, but Ireland itself. It would have been a very bad deal for their economy aside of anything else.


Dan  
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
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Tugger
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Ryanair Says EI Deal Blocked By EU

Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:55 pm

Quoting kaitak (Reply 1):
The decision to appeal is probably doomed from the start

Honestly, I don't think FR actually though it would be able to buy EI, which would essentially give it control over the Irish flying market.

But the off chance that it could possibly happen, along with the with the free advertizing it would get from trying it is worth every penny it has spent on the process. And it is not even really negative like they often in the news for, it is just an industry action. Pretty favorable publicity for FR.

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factsonly
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Ryanair Says EI Deal Blocked By EU

Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:58 pm

Herewith a link to an interesting analysis of Aer Lingus' performance and the Irish market.

http://centreforaviation.com/analysi...-but-beware-any-fall-in-rask-97103
 
kl911
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Ryanair Says EI Deal Blocked By EU

Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:35 pm

Sad..... I am all for open markets and free trading. So what if a company wants to buy another? Happens all the time. Governments should stop being involved in private business deals.
 
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shamrock604
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Ryanair Says EI Deal Blocked By EU

Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:37 pm

Quoting KL911 (Reply 15):

So the consumer doesnt matter? Wow. Well, at least an FR fan has finally admitted it!
 
PlymSpotter
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Ryanair Says EI Deal Blocked By EU

Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:38 pm

Quoting KL911 (Reply 15):
Governments should stop being involved in private business deals.

No that is part of what government is there for - to protect the consumer's best interest and the best interest of the country. That is what has been carried out here, otherwise the market would have been anything other than open.


Dan  
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OA260
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Ryanair Says EI Deal Blocked By EU

Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:38 pm

Quoting KL911 (Reply 15):
Sad..... I am all for open markets and free trading. So what if a company wants to buy another? Happens all the time. Governments should stop being involved in private business deals.

When its to the detriment of the country you certainly do need intervention. I'm all for open markets and free trading that's why this decision is justified ! It would be a monopoly and an unfair one at that should this have been allowed to go ahead. There is a balance between both IMHO. Not just because it FR but to any similar monopoly.
 
AeroWesty
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Ryanair Says EI Deal Blocked By EU

Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:44 pm

Quoting EIDL (Reply 4):
even having FR as a shareholder of that scale is a major problem for EI.

FR seems to own almost 30% of EI's stock, but I couldn't locate how that effects the makeup of the Board of Directors. Does anyone know where there's a breakdown by affiliation? Ireland's government seems to still own about 25% of the stock as well.
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Eagleboy
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Ryanair Says EI Deal Blocked By EU

Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:12 pm

Quoting KL911 (Reply 15):
So what if a company wants to buy another? Happens all the time. Governments should stop being involved in private business deals.

Yes, if its a private business deal. This is not private as it affects millions of air travellers and it reflects their desire to have choice in their travel rather than experience a FR monopoly.

And this is not the same as the BA/Bmi merger where Bmi allowed themselves to be bought, in this case EI do not want the advances of FR, at any price.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 19):
FR seems to own almost 30% of EI's stock, but I couldn't locate how that effects the makeup of the Board of Directors. Does anyone know where there's a breakdown by affiliation? Ireland's government seems to still own about 25% of the stock as well.

FR own 29%, Irish Govt own 25%, EY own 3%, EI pilots own 3%, an Irish businessman named Denis O'Brian owns another 3%, 15% was gifte to staff when EI floated,no idea how much of this is still in staff hands. All in all only approx 40% of EI shares are free floating on that stock market. Most of the above have indicated that they will not sell to FR or mean to hold onto their stock.
 
kaitak
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Ryanair Says EI Deal Blocked By EU

Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:15 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 19):

FR seems to own almost 30% of EI's stock, but I couldn't locate how that effects the makeup of the Board of Directors

FR has no representatives on the EI board - for reasons I can't explain or understand.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 18):
Not just because it FR but to any similar monopoly.

I agree, but given FR's record and the manner in which it has attempted to influence govt policy on aviation (and I use that phrase advisedly, since the Irish govt has never had much interest in aviation policy), it can be seen as very likely that it would attempt to use its dominant position to seek concessions and policy changes which would not be in anyone else's interests apart from FR's.

FR is alleging that government influence led to the decision, but that seems to ignore the weakness of its case and the glaring fact that if FR did buy out EI, it would control nearly 80% of traffic to Ireland and given its record (for example, the way it saw off U2), it would act in a predatory manner.
 
AeroWesty
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Ryanair Says EI Deal Blocked By EU

Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:21 pm

Quoting EagleBoy (Reply 20):
Most of the above have indicated that they will not sell to FR or mean to hold onto their stock.
Quoting kaitak (Reply 21):
FR has no representatives on the EI board - for reasons I can't explain or understand.

Thanks to you both for the info. I guess I'm used to a system where even 5% will cause rogue investors to begin talking about sitting on the BoD. Perhaps there's some anti-trust types of issues, but I'm truly not versed in EU or Irish securities regulations, so that's just a guess on my part.
International Homo of Mystery
 
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pvjin
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Ryanair Says EI Deal Blocked By EU

Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:45 pm

Quoting KL911 (Reply 15):

Sad..... I am all for open markets and free trading. So what if a company wants to buy another? Happens all the time. Governments should stop being involved in private business deals.

Yeah we would absolutely love world full of mega airlines crushing all new businesses down and thus decreasing competition & making things worse for the customer as such airlines would have total monopoly in many airports which in practice would mean increase in ticket prices.
"Optimism is the madness of insisting that all is well when we are miserable." - Voltaire
 
finnishway
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Ryanair Says EI Deal Blocked By EU

Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:05 pm

I am not happy, but I think Mr. O'Leary will figure something out.
 
PlymSpotter
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Ryanair Says EI Deal Blocked By EU

Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:12 pm

Quoting finnishway (Reply 24):
I think Mr. O'Leary will figure something out.

Preferably the realisation that Ryanair have lost their campaign to take over Aer Lingus...
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
finnishway
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Ryanair Says EI Deal Blocked By EU

Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:25 pm

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 25):
Preferably the realisation that Ryanair have lost their campaign to take over Aer Lingus...

They don't need to buy Air Lingus to be innovative and succeed. Ryanair still is the largest airline in Europe when we look at the total passengers carried in within Europe. It is making profit and customers are happy to fly with them.
Let the best airline in Europe to continue its great efforts.

[Edited 2013-02-12 15:26:01]
 
PlymSpotter
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Ryanair Says EI Deal Blocked By EU

Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:30 pm

Quoting finnishway (Reply 26):
Let the best airline in Europe to continue its great efforts.

Exactly - let Ryanair keep doing what they do best, and let Aer Lingus keep doing what they do best - separately. Then you get the best of both worlds, which is a competitive and fair air travel market in Ireland.
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
DFWHeavy
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Ryanair Says EI Deal Blocked By EU

Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:57 pm

I completely agree with KL911,

So what is there is a "Monopoly". No one said someone else couldn't start an airline and compete. I'm sick of governments involved in every aspect of everyone's lives. If 2 companies want to merge, the government shouldn't be telling them they can't. It's sickening.
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N867DA
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Ryanair Says EI Deal Blocked By EU

Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:05 am

Are Ryanair and Aer Lingus Ireland's only airlines? Are other airlines in Europe allowed to fly domestic Irish flight if they'd like to (a quick search for SNN-DUB shows only EI and BA flights, so I assume yes)?
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RussianJet
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Ryanair Says EI Deal Blocked By EU

Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:09 am

Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 28):
So what is there is a "Monopoly". No one said someone else couldn't start an airline and compete. I'm sick of governments involved in every aspect of everyone's lives. If 2 companies want to merge, the government shouldn't be telling them they can't. It's sickening.

I'm glad that monopolies and cartels are regulated against. It is potentially diabolical for the consumer otherwise, particularly when the companies concerned provide important public transport services. I realise there can sometimes be too much interference, but seriously, why would you want the worst excess of capitalism to be inflicted on the public when the reality is that a balance should be struck? There are definitely times when you can't just say 'sod the people' and let companies just do whatever they like. People can start up airlines to compete, but realistically when there is only one player dominating the market it can be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to do.
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
Eagleboy
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Ryanair Says EI Deal Blocked By EU

Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:10 am

Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 28):
I'm sick of governments involved in every aspect of everyone's lives. If 2 companies want to merge, the government shouldn't be telling them they can't. It's sickening.

This is most definitely NOT 2 companies wanting to merge...........

This is company that has a large (and very unwelcome) minority shareholding it one of its main competitor's trying to enact a hostile takeover that would result in the first company controlling 80% of a market from a region with no alternative product.

This case is less about Govt interference and more about Govt protection of the consumer. Market forces will ensure weak companies die off, this is not protectionism as neither of these companies is in danger of dying off anytime soon. (Unlike the 'competitor' put forward as an answer to the EU inquiry)
 
EIDL
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Ryanair Says EI Deal Blocked By EU

Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:22 am

Quoting N867DA (Reply 25):
Are Ryanair and Aer Lingus Ireland's only airlines? Are other airlines in Europe allowed to fly domestic Irish flight if they'd like to (a quick search for SNN-DUB shows only EI and BA flights, so I assume yes)?

There are two other Irish passenger airlines, but one (Aer Arann - RE) operates solely under franchise for Aer Lingus and the other (CityJet - WX) is owned by Air France.

There are no flights SNN-DUB - anything offered is a connection via somewhere else. There are two domestic routes in the entire country, one operated by Aer Arann and one by Loganair.
 
a320fan
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Ryanair Says EI Deal Blocked By EU

Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:02 am

Ah, Thank God that this most likely wont happen. This is solely a plan of Ryanair's to kill off their main competitor in their home market and nothing else. If this got through, Aer Lingus would be gone in the blink of an eye.
Airliners flowen in: 737-700, 737-800, A320, A321, 777-300ER, 777-200ER, 777-300, 787-8, A330-200, Q300
 
p201055r
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Ryanair Says EI Deal Blocked By EU

Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:11 am

Three quick points:-

1. Ryanair, a vocal critic of various forms of authority is ever the hapless victim when things go against it (according to its own publicity blurb), but is surprisingly fast to run, seeking succour from the authority of the Courts when an issue can be replayed (and re-publicised).
2. On balance I don't think the proposed take-over would have been good for the Country, what would remain of Aer Lingus or the very many staff and ancillary workers employed by that company or relying on its business.
3. I am at a complete loss to understand the proposed machinations between Ryanair and FlyBe - dis I not read somewhere the latter was suffering a little downturn, reorganising itself, restructuring finances & aircraft leases/deliveries, so apart from the valuable EIN LHR slots - easily sold for ready cash maybe in 2-3-5 years time if the going got really rough - and despite a funds transfer from RYR, why would they want the bother of setting up and running an Irish off-shoot?
 
finnishway
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Ryanair Says EI Deal Blocked By EU

Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:23 am

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 22):
which is a competitive and fair air travel market in Ireland.

Nobody cares about Ireland except the Irish people itself. Now we are talking about the whole Europe and the world.
I don't care if there is no routes to one island in Ireland, so what? If there is connections from Ireland to London or something like that it should be enough.

[Edited 2013-02-13 01:25:05]
 
Phen
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Ryanair Says EI Deal Blocked By EU

Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:42 am

Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 23):
If 2 companies want to merge, the government shouldn't be telling them they can't.

You've completely missed the essence of this whole story. As EagleBoy pointed out, EI does NOT and will likely never want to merge with FR. Any small amount of reading around the subject would have made that clear to you. In this case the EU Commission does not have any interest other than protecting healthy competition between these two airlines in order to safeguard the interests of the consumer and in turn the economy etc.

A lot of people outside of Ireland including a lot of posters here don't realise the importance of competition in the Irish aviation sector - geographically, Ireland is a very isolated island in the corner of Europe and is not like some other European countries where there is a feasible alternative to international air travel such as high speed rail. Yes Britain is also an island but it has the channel tunnel which provides a realistic and handy alternative to flying between London - Paris/Brussels etc. Ireland and especially its travelling business people rely very heavily on air travel. The arrival of FR was a great milestone in Irish aviation history and certainly helped to break Aer Lingus' monopoly at the time. Lower fares led to a boom in air travel and there has been healthy competition since. Why on earth should we revert back to that situation again; this time with FR holding the monopoly? Absolute madness!! Long live competition as far as I'm concerned...
 
Phen
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Ryanair Says EI Deal Blocked By EU

Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:48 am

Quoting finnishway (Reply 30):
Nobody cares about Ireland except the Irish people itself.

The same can be said for any country to be honest - I don't care what happens to aviation in Slovakia but I would oppose a hostile takeover which would eliminate choice and competition for Slovakians - be it in their electricity provider or national bus network - whatever. The EU Comission would prevent an anti-competitive merger in Slovakia just as it would anywhere else - and it just has in Ireland.
 
bx737
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Ryanair Says EI Deal Blocked By EU

Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:54 am

Quoting finnishway (Reply 30):

Interesting suggestion finnishway, to put it in context for you, it would be acceptable for you to have one air route between Helsinki and Stockholm, no land connections to the rest of Europe, four passenger ferries a day to your nearest neighbour and a thrice weekly ferry connection to another country. I don't think that would be good enough for you. That is the reality of alternate connections from Ireland.

I am glad the EU have apparently rejected the take over. Contrary to popular belief by some posters here, FR is not an honourable organisation. A judge in Ireland stated in a court case that Ryanair and the truth were not compatible. Also they breached an agreement they made with Shannon airport and caused passenger numbers to plummet and the DAA pursued them for compensation for breach of contract, which the DAA got. With this in mind, how can you believe that the remedies would be adhered to.

There is an open skies agreement with Ireland and the EU and also the USA, yet very few European airlines have entered the Irish market. The question why has to be asked. I know the you may say the economic situation is not conducive to opening new routes, but US carriers have opened routes in that same period. The lack of new carriers to Europe is the Ryanair effect. Only one carrier has successfully competed with Ryanair, that is Aer Lingus, thus Ryanair's desire to get rid of competition.

It is worth bearing in mind that Shannon and Fuerteventura are two airports who have been badly burned by Ryanair in the past. Ryanair played their usual airport charges card in FUE and cut back on routes, as most other airlines pulled out of the FUE market, the tourism industry fell apart. It is not good for consumers to have a monopoly and that is what the EU are bearing in mind in their decision.
 
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Aesma
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Ryanair Says EI Deal Blocked By EU

Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:08 am

Quoting N867DA (Reply 24):
Are other airlines in Europe allowed to fly domestic Irish flight if they'd like to (a quick search for SNN-DUB shows only EI and BA flights, so I assume yes)?

Yes European airlines can fly any European route they wish.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
p201055r
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Ryanair Says EI Deal Blocked By EU

Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:28 am

Quoting finnishway (Reply 30):


Nobody cares about Ireland except the Irish people itself. Now we are talking about the whole Europe and the world.
I don't care if there is no routes to one island in Ireland, so what? If there is connections from Ireland to London or something like that it should be enough.

Missing the point I think suomalainentapa - Ryanair's hostile take-over bid for Aer Lingus may only be the start of broader expansion plans - the wish to start a TATL service being one part we are fairly certain of - all in the name of greater consumer efficacy, but in reality it feels little more than cash-grabbing and opposition eliminating moves by Ryanair.
While, for example, the majors in Norway, Sweden and Denmark - SAS (until the next financial crisis, anyway) and Norwegian appear to be reasonably well shielded from Ryanair's sphere of interest, how "safe" might Finnair be from a hostile Ryanair bid in the future? Would we then say no-one cares about Finland except the Finns? Would it be of little significance if the exit hub from Suomi to the World outside Northern Europe was through Frankfurt, Stockholm or Oslo?
 
JU068
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Ryanair Says EI Deal Blocked By EU

Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:59 am

Quoting finnishway (Reply 35):
Why fly to Ireland when you can fly to UK which is much bigger market than country that can't handle its financial problems?

So according to your logic no one should go to Finland just because there is Russia and Sweden next to it?

Funny you mention the economy, as both Aer Lingus and Ryanair are profitable, so it is not like they rely on tax payers' money.
 
finnishway
Posts: 440
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Ryanair Says EI Deal Blocked By EU

Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:02 am

Quoting ju068 (Reply 38):
So according to your logic no one should go to Finland just because there is Russia and Sweden next to it?

Depends on subject.

Quoting ju068 (Reply 38):
Funny you mention the economy

I meant about the Ireland and its economy in total.
 
bx737
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Ryanair Says EI Deal Blocked By EU

Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:03 am

Quoting finnishway (Reply 35):
Why don't they then say to the Finnish government to open railway markets? There is only one railway company allowed to operate passenger traffic in Finland and that one is owned by the state.Why there is alcohol monopoly in Finland?Lets get rid of the monopolies then.

I don't know about the railway market or the alcohol market in Finland, but I agree, lets get rid of monopolies, thus the Ryanair take over of Aer Lingus should not be allowed go ahead as it would create a monopoly situation. If the takeover was allowed to go ahead Ryanair would control over 80% of air travel to the island of Ireland. How is this beneficial to the consumer? Ryanair has been known to increase fares when they have a monopoly on routes.

Quoting finnishway (Reply 35):
There are no straight land connections from Helsinki to the rest of Europe.

There is a land connection between Finland and Russia, Sweden and Norway, that is more of a land connection than between the island of Ireland and Europe.Yes it may take a considerable amount of time to go between various parts of Europe from Finland, but there are alternatives to drive which there are not from Ireland.

Quoting finnishway (Reply 35):
Yes it is. The most honourable company in Ireland.

If that is the case, why did Judge Peter Kelly say that Ryanair and the truth were "uncomfortable bedfellows"? The judiciary are independent and this is what a member of the judicary said. I don't think that this indicates that Ryanair is the most honourable company in Ireland. Furthermore an honourable company would not call its customers idiots, something that Ryanair has done. I could go on, but don't want to appear to be Ryanair bashing. I am pointing out that the EU are right to refuse this takeover on the grounds of competition. The Flybe deal was an attempt to introduce competition, but picking an airline that is in financial difficulties, is shedding 300 employees and paying them €100million to compete with Ryanair sounds insane to me.

Quoting finnishway (Reply 35):
Why fly to Ireland when you can fly to UK which is much bigger market than country that can't handle its financial problems?

The UK is a bigger market and LHR is currently operating at or very near to full capacity. Over 24 million people flew into and out of Ireland last year which proves that there is a market in Ireland which can operate independently of the UK. Bear in mind that EI did make a profit of €69million out of the Irish market last year. It is well served in a very competitive situation by EI and FR, competing with one another all to the benefit of the consumer.

However in your ideal situation, you would want to see this market wiped out, one air route out of Ireland, to London and the use of ferries from Ireland. Please explain how this is of benefit to the Irish consumer, mind you I do note that you don't care about the Irish consumer. Putting it in a Finnish context, we should close all land borders from Finland (so you can't drive from Finland or get the train from Finland to anywhere else in Europe), have one air route to Stockholm and cut the number of ferries from Finland to the rest of Europe until the amount of connections are the same as from Ireland. Do you think this would be acceptable?
 
JU068
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Ryanair Says EI Deal Blocked By EU

Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:08 am

Quoting finnishway (Reply 37):
Depends on subject.

Aha... so double standards.

Quoting finnishway (Reply 37):
I meant about the Ireland and its economy in total.

Well, we are not discussing the overall state of the Irish economy on here but the state of its aviation sector. I guess you went off topic.
 
finnishway
Posts: 440
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Ryanair Says EI Deal Blocked By EU

Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:09 am

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 36):
What exactly do you mean by "between this island and mainland in Ireland"?

We have been talking about some island in Ireland and its connections to the mainland.

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 36):
Where did you get that information from?

I concluded it myself.

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 36):
So by your logic nobody would want to fly to Ireland because it's beside the UK which is bigger?

Pretty much yes.

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 36):
Just for the sake of pointing it out, you do know Dublin airport is busier than your airport in the beautiful city of Helsinki.

I know, but Helsinki is not beautiful at all.

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 36):
I suppose by your logic nobody would want to fly to Belgium for example, when it's beside France which is a much bigger market?

As Mr. O'Leary has said "get out of Brussels as fast as you can". I think he said that it is the "Evil empire" or something like that. Yes, go to France instead of Belgium and go to Germany or UK instead of France.

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 36):
despite some posters here trying to explain it to you.

You should understand that everybody have their own opinions. I think this topic was not meant to be only against or on behalf of Ryanair? I am a big fan of Ryanair. It is the same thing in electronics. I am an Apple fanboy and I will always be against Nokia, because that company sucks.
 
Danny
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Ryanair Says EI Deal Blocked By EU

Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:21 am

Clearly double standards. No problem with BA buying BMI but Ryanair cannot buy Aer Lingus  
 
finnishway
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Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:17 pm

Ryanair Says EI Deal Blocked By EU

Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:36 am

Quoting Danny (Reply 41):
No problem with BA buying BMI but Ryanair cannot buy Aer Lingus

That is not my opinion if you are referring to me.
 
JU068
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Ryanair Says EI Deal Blocked By EU

Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:46 am

Quoting finnishway (Reply 42):

Yes but normally you should think that as after the merger there are less options to fly into the United Kingdom... you know, so that people do not have to go to Ireland... or God forbid Belgium.
 
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Jambost
Posts: 253
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2010 7:31 pm

Ryanair Says EI Deal Blocked By EU

Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:47 am

Quoting N867DA (Reply 24):

I would also note easyjet , jet2 and Flybe as they base operations in Northern Ireland.

There is no physical boarder to restrain those in Northern Ireland to use DUB or any other airport on the Island. The islands population is estimated to be: 4.6 + 1.8 totaling to 6.4 million.

Passengers not conveniently located to DUB either fly and transfer from available European alternatives served by their local airport or travel the extra mile to use direct flights from Dublin.

Quoting finnishway (Reply 30):

You fail to see that the Irish flag carrier can survive and make profit despite competing with FR 's most aggressive business techniques and the conveniently accessed world hub that is London .
Also note as I mentioned above DUB serves Northern Ireland like any other part of the Island totalling the potential population to 6.4 million.

I would also like to mention that the more Irish people emigrate the stronger VFR [Visiting Friends Relatives] traffic will strengthen existing air routes direct and indirect to Ireland. Music to BA EI EY EK TK etc ears as they and others link Ireland to the world.

Quoting finnishway (Reply 30):
Nobody cares about Ireland except the Irish people itself.

Europe does care, they bailed us out!
It is you that does not care. The fate of EI relies on the justice and laws of business. EU is just backing up that the rules are being followed legally.
1APR14 Ireland Direct, 3 A380-9LR,Equiped Irish Bar & Casino. All Y+ seating. Serving DUB-PER-SYD/MEL
 
Phen
Posts: 230
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:05 pm

Ryanair Says EI Deal Blocked By EU

Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:50 am

Quoting bx737 (Reply 38):
Quoting finnishway (Reply 35):
Yes it is. The most honourable company in Ireland.

        

Quoting Danny (Reply 41):
No problem with BA buying BMI but Ryanair cannot buy Aer Lingus

   And around in circles we go again. I think we've discussed it at length now with this and other previous threads. Lets move on and await the UK OFT investigation outcome. Looking forward to FR's reaction to that!
 
finnishway
Posts: 440
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:17 pm

Ryanair Says EI Deal Blocked By EU

Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:56 am

Quoting Phen (Reply 45):
And around in circles we go again. I think we've discussed it at length now with this and other previous threads.

I agree with you. I wonder how many new friends I have made in these discussions. If there will be A.net meeting or something like that in Ireland, maybe I should come there and see it myself.
 
Eagleboy
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Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:29 am

Ryanair Says EI Deal Blocked By EU

Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:01 pm

Quoting finnishway (Reply 30):
I don't care if there is no routes to one island in Ireland, so what? If there is connections from Ireland to London or something like that it should be enough.

Lets hope you don't work for the Finnish tourist board

Quoting Danny (Reply 41):

Clearly double standards. No problem with BA buying BMI but Ryanair cannot buy Aer Lingus

BA/Bmi is very different to EI/FR.

Bmi was a basketcase airline that had been going downhill (sadly) for several years. It was not offering healthy competion to BA on more than a handful of shorthaul routes. It was losing money and contracting. BA bought Bmi with the agreement of the Bmi parent company (LH) Together they still only control 55% of slots from the major airport of the UK, which has at least 5-6 other international airports operating. (GLA,MAN,BHX,LGW,STN,LCY, etc) So this agreement does not create a monopoly situation for the UK and/or London market

FR/EI: Both companies are making healthy profits. EI was growing its market share from FR as FR was expanding over Europe. Both compete directly/indirectly on approx 70% of their routes from Ireland. Due to there competition mosr European airlines are loath to enter the Irish marlet (Please see what happend to WizzAir at ORK recently, as well as EX many years ago)
FR are making a hostile takeover bid for EI. The combined entity would control over 80% of flights from DUB, ORK and SNN....the only significant airports operating in Ireland. (They would also have a majority of traffic from the BFS/BHD market) This deal would result in FR controlling air traffic out of Ireland. The only solution to the claims of monopoly was for FR to fund an artificial competitor which was only legally bound to operate for 3 years.
 
PlymSpotter
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Ryanair Says EI Deal Blocked By EU

Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:09 pm

Quoting finnishway (Reply 30):
Nobody cares about Ireland except the Irish people itself.

Oh yes they do, and you should to. Just about every European country owes every other European country billions in bonds - I don't for one minute think that Finland is any different. So whilst you might think that something affecting the Irish economy has no affect on you, if it affects Ireland's ability to repay their debt to your country (which was highly likely) then it would have directly affected you.

Quoting finnishway (Reply 30):
I don't care if there is no routes to one island in Ireland, so what? If there is connections from Ireland to London or something like that it should be enough.

That is quite possibly the most ridiculous and embarrassingly naive statement I have ever read.


Dan  
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
finnishway
Posts: 440
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:17 pm

Ryanair Says EI Deal Blocked By EU

Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:11 pm

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 48):
if it affects Ireland's ability to repay their debt to your country (which was highly likely) then it would have directly affected you.

I am not waiting Ireland or Greece to pay much back to us. Finnish people pays your loans back with higher taxes.

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 48):

That is quite possibly the most ridiculous and embarrassingly naive statement I have ever read.

It is not. That is true. Why fly from an island to Dublin when you can fly to London?

Ok, lets stop this arguing.